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Visibility System Official Feedback Thread


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blindfoId #1 Posted 29 April 2019 - 01:36 PM

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Update 2.0.12 introduced serious changes to the visibility system. You can find the list of changes under the spoiler:

 

Spoiler

 

Update 2.0.12 also brought flight model (some aircraft behavior in stall has been adjusted) changes as well as other aircraft balance changes.

 

Please share with us your feedback on the following points:

 

Visibility System

1. Have you noticed any changes in the visibility system?

2. Are you satisfied with the current visibility system? Please explain your opinion.

 

Radar

1. Does in-game radar helps you to understand the situation in the battle?

 

Balance Changes

1. Is stall now more controlled and easy to recover from? 

2. Please share your opinion about other game balance changes in update 2.0.12.

 

Keep your feedback constructive and on-topic. 

 

Thank you for your time and answers! :honoring:



J311yfish #2 Posted 29 April 2019 - 03:24 PM

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There is some confusion, I think, by the interchangeable use of the words 'detection' and 'visibility'.

 

Here is a quick summary that takes all of the information thus far and puts it into simple terms (so that feedback is more meaningful):

 

 

Detection range -- this is how far out you can see to detect other aircraft

-- 1,650 m for Tier I-IV aircraft;

-- 2,000 m for Tier V-VII aircraft;

-- 2,500 m for Tier VIII-X aircraft.

-- +40% with Dazzling Star - Charlotte von Staufen, special female pilot for Germany (replaces Eagle Eyed)

-- +20% with Eagle Eyed

-- +20% with Cruise Flight

-- the above bonuses can be used together

-- can be interrupted by terrain (mountains, clouds, etc.)

 

 

Visible range -- this is how far out you can be detected by other aircraft

-- -10% camouflage paint

-- -20% camouflage paint -- "reduces by an average of 200m at all tiers"; "can be [reduced] up to ~500m with the use of navigational equipment (currently limited to tier 8 and above)"

-- flying in clouds -- "reduces detection distance by 200m"

-- +10% engines actively boosting

-- +10% forward-firing armament actively shooting

-- +10% aircraft on fire

-- +5% with Dazzling Star -- Charlotte von Staufen, special female pilot for Germany (replaces Eagle Eyed)

 

 

Irrelevant

-- altitude -- this is an old mechanic that is no longer relevant

-- aircraft type -- currently irrelevant but may be changed in the future (as of 01/2018)

 

 

Questions

1. Does cloud cover reduce Detection range (my ability to see others), Visibility range (their ability to see me), or both?

 

2. What is meant exactly by this statement?

Block Quote

 Visible area on the Radar now covers 4500 / 3000 / 1500 meters for Tiers I-IV, 6000 / 4000 / 2000m for Tiers V-VII and 7500 / 5000 / 2500m for Tiers VIII-X

 

3. Can we get this information presented in a more useable form?  Such as the above.  Please feel free to modify/adapt as needed.

 

 

Sources

-- Valkyries Attack -- special female pilots and their abilities (02/22/2017)

-- Visibility System 2.0 explained with illustrations (01/31/2018)

-- Visibility System Official Feedback Thread (04/29/2019)


Edited by J311yfish, 29 April 2019 - 03:35 PM.

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losttwo #3 Posted 29 April 2019 - 06:45 PM

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I have not notice any changes while flying GA or Heavies.

I still see red planes on my minimap and in the sky.

 

Is that normal ?



White_Widow18 #4 Posted 29 April 2019 - 08:00 PM

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Clouds are still problematic in terms of actual viewing. I can see them on my radar, they're maybe 500 feet off of my nose.. but all I can see is their health bar. I've gotten good enough at shooting that, but if you were intending us to -see- the target then that's still off mark.

I wish I could move the radar/minimap, I wish the pips that show direction were color coded for class, I wish I could select/mark a specific player or bot to a specific color, otherwise.. enjoying the detection system. Minimap/radar is useful but frustrating because of the inability to move it to a section of the screen I look toward more naturally and its very bland in terms of the information it displays even when holding down alt.. which also removes part of the useful information because it doesn't show direction the enemy is facing any longer.

Love the flight model changes entirely though. 

 

 

 

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GeorgePatton #5 Posted 29 April 2019 - 09:22 PM

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View PostWhite_Widow18, on 29 April 2019 - 03:00 PM, said:

Clouds are still problematic in terms of actual viewing. I can see them on my radar, they're maybe 500 feet off of my nose.. but all I can see is their health bar. I've gotten good enough at shooting that, but if you were intending us to -see- the target then that's still off mark.

I wish I could move the radar/minimap, I wish the pips that show direction were color coded for class, I wish I could select/mark a specific player or bot to a specific color, otherwise.. enjoying the detection system. Minimap/radar is useful but frustrating because of the inability to move it to a section of the screen I look toward more naturally and its very bland in terms of the information it displays even when holding down alt.. which also removes part of the useful information because it doesn't show direction the enemy is facing any longer.

Love the flight model changes entirely though. 

 

 

 

Are you seriously asking the developers to make clouds even more useless? Are you aware that dipping into cloud cover has been one of the staples of a guns defensive engagement? Honestly if there's a cloud between you and an opponent you shouldn't be able to see them, period. There's a reason we have to maintain separation from clouds when flying non-IFR in real life. Even the thinnest of clouds can easily hide another aircraft. Of course, there are exceptions, but we're not going to get into that.

 

The visibility system seems to be working well in my opinion. I flew a couple training room flights against NovaTempest and SpiritFox to see how the Vampire compares to the P-80A (Vampires won, although a couple of them were close!). They were down low and I was going high - I can't comment on when/how they spotted me, but I was spotting them at about 1700m as soon as I'd roll inverted which is about what I expected.

 

I try not to stall my planes, so I can't comment on the new stall mechanics just yet.

 

 

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Leadlooser #6 Posted 29 April 2019 - 11:08 PM

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I've not had a problem with stalling, so I can't give much feedback about that.  However, concerning the minimap (radar), it would like to see an altitude indicator - perhaps color-coded.  I believe Ace Combat had an altitude indicating system.  I found that useful.

Dreaming, it'd be nice to have the indicators show the plane type and player/bot moniker, but I feel that feature is overkill.



J311yfish #7 Posted 05 May 2019 - 07:24 PM

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View PostblindfoId, on 29 April 2019 - 08:36 AM, said:

Visible area on the Radar now covers 4500 / 3000 / 1500 meters for Tiers I-IV, 6000 / 4000 / 2000m for Tiers V-VII and 7500 / 5000 / 2500m for Tiers VIII-X. 

 

Any idea what is meant by this statement?


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Azis_ #8 Posted 05 May 2019 - 08:48 PM

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View PostJ311yfish, on 05 May 2019 - 11:24 AM, said:

 

Any idea what is meant by this statement?

 

You can zoom +/- the mini map, I suspect this means the available ranges depending on how big you want your map.
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Azis_ #9 Posted 05 May 2019 - 08:57 PM

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View PostblindfoId, on 29 April 2019 - 05:36 AM, said:

Balance Changes

1. Is stall now more controlled and easy to recover from? 

2. Please share your opinion about other game balance changes in update 2.0.12.

 

 

 

Stall is not always a bad thing. It is a "maneuver" which is practiced IRL during pilot training. It has many uses and I have used it not only IRL, but in gaming since Crimson Skies.

The mechanic in this game was once usable but has fallen well short for some time.

 

Another mechanic that is missing, rather totally void in this game is "Spin". Another maneuver that is trained, used, and beneficial at times.

 

I look forward to getting back into an old bag of tricks and testing the stall mechanics.

 

Edit: I should add one more mechanic, "Slip/Crab" This game has never in my experience, had any element for this maneuver.


Edited by Azis_, 05 May 2019 - 09:01 PM.

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CorvusCorvax #10 Posted 09 May 2019 - 11:34 PM

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It seems that the special radar for the Tu-1 does affect detection.  If you couple it with seasonal camouflage, the plane can nearly get into big gun range before detection.  And the flak seems to not see the aircraft nearly as much.

 

EDIT:  If we had certificates left over from the Tu-1 event, when do we see gold from those?


Edited by CorvusCorvax, 09 May 2019 - 11:34 PM.


White_Widow18 #11 Posted 10 May 2019 - 08:45 PM

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I never thought I'd say this... but the longer I'm actually -playing- with the detection system.. the more I feel like its overly simplistic and planes are -too- easily spotted. Saying this from the perspective of a player with ~25% efficiencies in Bombers, Heavy Fighters, and GAA...

Everyone else's mileage mary vary and I am sure many will.. but I feel like finding your enemies to shoot them is a little too unimpressively simple in this game. Maybe bring altitude back as a camouflage thing.. I dunno.. something.
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wylleEcoyote #12 Posted 14 May 2019 - 03:40 AM

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You are running into balance issues. WW18.

Bring altitude back and battles will take that much longer to happen. Even if you get rid off respawns.
Taken to realistic levels and you get 5 minutes of climbing for 40 seconds of turning as you drop out of the sky.
(unless a crit or two is all it takes to end your sortie )

Nerfing our ability to find and kill each other means that you will have to nerf the effectiveness of PvE aircraft.
Otherwise we wont know a GAA/bomber combo is flying over a zone, until the AAA is shooting.
And unless someone is already there (or already on the way for other reasons)
even a speed build energy fighter will be going in blind because the cap would be flipped by the time responders are half way there.
Even presuming you get there in time.
You may be flying high enough to find the bomber; but are too high to spot a leaving stealth build GAA on your own.

        


White_Widow18 #13 Posted 14 May 2019 - 06:23 AM

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View PostwylleEcoyote, on 13 May 2019 - 09:40 PM, said:

You are running into balance issues. WW18.

Bring altitude back and battles will take that much longer to happen. Even if you get rid off respawns.
Taken to realistic levels and you get 5 minutes of climbing for 40 seconds of turning as you drop out of the sky.
(unless a crit or two is all it takes to end your sortie )

Nerfing our ability to find and kill each other means that you will have to nerf the effectiveness of PvE aircraft.
Otherwise we wont know a GAA/bomber combo is flying over a zone, until the AAA is shooting.
And unless someone is already there (or already on the way for other reasons)
even a speed build energy fighter will be going in blind because the cap would be flipped by the time responders are half way there.
Even presuming you get there in time.
You may be flying high enough to find the bomber; but are too high to spot a leaving stealth build GAA on your own.

 

I, personally, think battles are ridiculously short most of the time. I find squall line to be completely artificial claptrap given that there's already a score and a hard time limit as well. Love re-spawns as well. Making people harder to find would murder a large # of people's average scores and change the landscape of the game quite a bit. No more non-stop run and gun.. people might have to learn to be more strategic and consider the strategies of others... but I doubt WG does a major overhaul of the vis system so.
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blindfoId #14 Posted 14 May 2019 - 10:16 AM

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Thank you for sharing your opinions. Your feedback is filed and sent to the developers team. 




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