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Anyone else ever run into a kill-thief?

unfair play

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ClosedCoffin #41 Posted 25 February 2019 - 06:03 PM

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View Posttrikke, on 25 February 2019 - 04:19 PM, said:

 

and that bothers me, because you certainly didn't crash          it counted against him as a TK, wouldn't it?

 

aw jeez... there's no justice in the real world either

 

I think he gets credited with a team kill.

The main screen said Aircraft Crashed but the scrolling kill log on the right had his name as destroying my aircraft.



LeastWeasel #42 Posted 25 February 2019 - 07:24 PM

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I try to make use of “attacking target” when I feel I’m about to have someone dead to rights... and respect the same when it’s used...


Buuuuuut


If someone secures a kill I’ve been gunning for? Eh, good for them, good for the team. Just because we’ve got a fight in the bag doesn’t mean we haven’t gotten bogged down. The protracted duels of the furball whittle down the health & energy of all involved, until someone ends up in the right position to finish 2+ targets with a flurry of target-switching & get the snowball rolling.


Sometimes it’s you, sometime’s it’s someone else. Good flying, and move on.


An ally riding your tail, to the point of harrassment, though? That’s apples to orangutans. I’ve been in a few situations that felt like that this weekend, and usually it’s just a TnB with a small engagement envelope, lost in a blood frenzy. It was always solved by even just moving to defend another aide/altitude band of the cap circle.

Active jerks are active jerks, though.

Cenotaph #43 Posted 25 February 2019 - 07:44 PM

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View PostLeastWeasel, on 25 February 2019 - 11:24 AM, said:

An ally riding your tail, to the point of harrassment, though? That’s apples to orangutans. I’ve been in a few situations that felt like that this weekend, and usually it’s just a TnB with a small engagement envelope, lost in a blood frenzy. It was always solved by even just moving to defend another aide/altitude band of the cap circle.

Active jerks are active jerks, though.

 

Honestly, I've run into a couple instance where it certainly felt like someone was riding my tail...

 

It becomes especially noticeable when you actively change sectors to avoid -player- but they seem determined to follow you, and only get kills other people are working on.

 

I've found the EU server to be far more guilty of this than NA... far fewer games played, far more questionable instances.


Edited by Cenotaph, 25 February 2019 - 07:45 PM.

I don't want to hurt you... I just want to kill you!

Azis_ #44 Posted 25 February 2019 - 08:21 PM

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I have not seen it to excess, but have been in furball where me and another were just flying tight and likely had the same target closest or easiest to aquire...clear the red and continue.

 

Sometimes when in a circle jerk and I only whittling one down, I look for some help and will straighten out towards and ally in hopes they will finish my kill for "major contribution"

 

Times I have worked on a GA for 3 passes and only one shot left and it gets snagged, I might curse at them to myself but usually lighthearted and at least we got the culprit!

 

I don't mind shared kills and when they equal or almost do my kills, I still take some pride in that.


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White_Widow18 #45 Posted 25 February 2019 - 08:51 PM

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View PostblindfoId, on 25 February 2019 - 09:01 AM, said:

Technically it works like this when it comes to getting credit:

 

Enemy Aircraft Destruction Get the killing blow on an enemy aircraft. 200 (PP)
Major Contribution Deal more than 60% of damage to an enemy aircraft, destroyed by another team member. 125 (PP)
Assistance in Destruction Deal the damage (<60%) to the aircraft, destroyed by another team member. 75 (PP)
Enemy Aircraft Damage Reward for every 1% of damage to an enemy aircraft. 10 (PP)

 

Sometimes you may even not notice that someone else was assisting your target (a player, a bot, an ADA, AA guns) and dealt the killing blow and you are awarded with either 75 or 125 PP for that targets. Sometimes you set an aircraft on fire and it seems like someone else got the last hit but that target was destroyed by fire (set by you) and you receive 200 PP for killing a target. Still. The last hit counts. And do not forget that all information is registered on the server side so what you see on your screen may slightly differ from what is really going on especially if you have a little troubles with connection.

 

Thank you Very Much Blindfold! Exactly the information I was looking for :)

White_Widow18 #46 Posted 25 February 2019 - 09:00 PM

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Also, to be clear, this post was triggered by someone following me across 3 nodes and yanking 10+ kills from me -in a row-. I tried ditching out/purposely crashing to respawn and going back to defense.. got one kill and suddenly here he is.. tried to move nodes.. he followed me.. kept pegging my plane in the rear with his overspray shots because he wasn't a very good aim, etc.

It was ridiculous and over the top.

Again, there -is- a line where it's just an "ooops" or they did me a solid, did the team a solid/were just that much better than me and I very much appreciate that.

This was the maybe second or third time since I started playing that I had something this egregiously obvious happen and I just wondered if anyone else had, if it was a common occurrence, etc. and what people do to deal with it if they -do- run into it. Do you report it as unfair play? Do you shoot them down back as a warning from the damage they've done to your plane with overspray and your score with kill grabbing? At what point do you decide its purposeful.. and I suppose my question in all of that is.... to WG

Blindfold, is this even behavior that would be against the TOS? Kill Thieving?  And I know you can report for -ramming- allies and etc. but is shooting them down purposely against the rules as well or is it a grey area? 

Just curious because it's a situation I've been quite used to in -other- MMOs of people competing/fighting over kills and trying to vulture kills but its a new one for me on here!

Azis_ #47 Posted 25 February 2019 - 09:07 PM

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WW I trust your judgement and believe you whole heartedly.

 

This used to happen as I recall much more pre 2.x and I am not beyond backing off such a player and putting a few love taps on them (accidentally of course :/ ) to let them know it is not appreciated.

 

Personally I can not imagine what sort of mentality it would require to do such a thing, but such is the world today so....takes all kinds, needed or not I guess.


Edited by Azis_, 25 February 2019 - 09:08 PM.

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CorvusCorvax #48 Posted 25 February 2019 - 09:27 PM

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View PostWhite_Widow18, on 25 February 2019 - 09:00 PM, said:

Also, to be clear, this post was triggered by someone following me across 3 nodes and yanking 10+ kills from me -in a row-. I tried ditching out/purposely crashing to respawn and going back to defense.. got one kill and suddenly here he is.. tried to move nodes.. he followed me.. kept pegging my plane in the rear with his overspray shots because he wasn't a very good aim, etc.

It was ridiculous and over the top.

Again, there -is- a line where it's just an "ooops" or they did me a solid, did the team a solid/were just that much better than me and I very much appreciate that.

This was the maybe second or third time since I started playing that I had something this egregiously obvious happen and I just wondered if anyone else had, if it was a common occurrence, etc. and what people do to deal with it if they -do- run into it. Do you report it as unfair play? Do you shoot them down back as a warning from the damage they've done to your plane with overspray and your score with kill grabbing? At what point do you decide its purposeful.. and I suppose my question in all of that is.... to WG

Blindfold, is this even behavior that would be against the TOS? Kill Thieving?  And I know you can report for -ramming- allies and etc. but is shooting them down purposely against the rules as well or is it a grey area? 

Just curious because it's a situation I've been quite used to in -other- MMOs of people competing/fighting over kills and trying to vulture kills but its a new one for me on here!

It has happened to me on multiple occasions.  As a heavy fighter pilot, the BnZ doesn't always get the job done on the first pass, especially with aircraft sporting the MK108 30mm cannon.  I had a guy last week cleaning up every aircraft I damaged.  He stuck to me like glue and ended up doubling my score.  We won, but I was slightly unhappy with the 8k points and the meager salvage.  But hey, the Me-262 is a challenge to play.  I had someone covering my tail otherwise, so it's all good.  Heck, when I fly escort on a human bomber pilot, I rarely get much more than half of what they score.  So, whatever.

 

Hey, my bomber pilot friends who I escort - feel free to reward my service any time, okay?  ;)



wylleEcoyote #49 Posted 25 February 2019 - 09:28 PM

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View PostLeadlooser, on 25 February 2019 - 01:01 PM, said:

Coffin,

Thanks for the video.  What a/an ~!  You, however, were remarkably restrained.  Good on ya.

 

To the thread message,

 

The Captain and I were coincidentally teamed-up and I enjoyed swatting the flies of his giant bomber tail.  He must stink!  I know that they would not consider me a kill thief, but another might mistake my cover fire for kill stealing/theft.  Sadly, their altitude and speed coupled with my need for all the micro gunnery deflects meant we soon were parted and separated, and were sent to the hangar.  My F-2G and their B-32 just didn't quite have enough mutual strengths to properly work in a fighter/bomber escort mission.

 

My issue is over-pursuing an enemy to scrape off the final HP to get the victory.  Choosing one's fights is key, and sometimes I fail to target-shift when I should just to take another set of guns out of the game.  However, should we all concentrate on more opportune targets, (higher threat and lower HP), this could seem to be thievery, but my goal is always to help the team win.  That's probably why my stats are so poor, (more likely; I'm probably doing something wrong).

 

I guess the OP really is asking whether the 'kill count,' and 'damage dealt' are properly balanced.  In this, I do feel some unfairness.  I regularly have amongst the highest damage and 'kills,' but am relegated to the middle of the score report.  Plane type specific goals are important to this, but sometimes one's team requires us to fly outside of these envelopes - we have to defend with attackers, or finish off bases solo in a LF.

 

In the end, I don't really worry about 'kill-thievery' as long as it is contributing to the team objective, to win.  Having typed that, I would seem to inhibit XP gains and stats (don't much care about those).  In Coffin's case, that guy Spit pilot should be sanctioned with the obvious flagrant unsportsmanlike behaviour.  That kind of thing detracts from the game and oozes in to this community forum. 


When it comes to kill securing for maximal profit
Other than getting a Strong Supporter medal  or finishing a "be top player in assists in a win" mission for tokens ...
the PP values i was taking back to the hanger were very lackluster compared to flying around in the same plane and shooting anything that moved until it went kaboom.

How do I know this? Well have i got a story for you ...
 

It all started...

 

Fair warning. My success rate at speculative guesswork is much like my WinRate. Hit or Miss.
Usually I start on the right track and then a make a weird left turn and get lost in the weeds ... 
And yet it doesn't stop me from speculation.

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White_Widow18 #50 Posted 25 February 2019 - 09:49 PM

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Ya know the greatest thing about this thread? There's been a lot of honest banter and question and not once has anyone gone ka-boom on anyone.

o7 to all of you for that.

I dunno, it's not something I see as a fixable via code issue and since this is the first time I've -really- encountered it on here I'm still curious how often it even -does- occur on here. I was just curious if it -was- more common than I'd thought.. I know when I play games inhabited mostly by err.. well.. children.. that they find it funny to do that sort of thing for multiple matches to purposely ruin other people's game playing experience. As we aren't (generally) populated by kids it caught me off-guard enough and made me curious enough to post and ask because the rules don't seem too clear on that sort of behavior or what you're allowed to do to respond to it.

 

Azis_ #51 Posted 25 February 2019 - 09:51 PM

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:honoring:

 

Agreed WW!


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Cenotaph #52 Posted 25 February 2019 - 10:43 PM

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View PostWhite_Widow18, on 25 February 2019 - 01:49 PM, said:

 As we aren't (generally) populated by kids it caught me off-guard enough and made me curious enough to post and ask because the rules don't seem too clear on that sort of behavior or what you're allowed to do to respond to it.

 

Best option, imo... almost kill the guy trying to kill you... leave him at 10 HP, and out fly him till a bot/red ends him.
I don't want to hurt you... I just want to kill you!

Azis_ #53 Posted 25 February 2019 - 11:00 PM

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View PostAzis_, on 25 February 2019 - 01:07 PM, said:

 I am not beyond backing off such a player and putting a few love taps on them (accidentally of course :/ ) to let them know ....

 

:teethhappy:
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bradk62 #54 Posted 26 February 2019 - 12:24 AM

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The notion of "kill stealing" was largely a 1.x phenomenon.  Apart from the OP, I haven't heard of this in 2.x.  That said, it would really tick me off also.  

 

In 1.x, with 15 against 15 teams (10 against 10 in the lower tiers) and no re-pawns, the dominant team would eventually converge with a bunch of planes on the 2 or 3 remaining enemies.  The less experienced players on the winning team, often down-tiered, stock planes and/or pilots, would get on the tail of a GA or Heavy and whittle away for a minute or two before someone with a real plane would come along and finish him with 1 or 2 shots or a quick machine gun burst.

 

Often the original attacker wouldn't even get an assist out of the engagement (cause he did less than 1/3 of the damage) but would still accuse the person credited with the kill of "stealing" it.  

 

The problem would compound itself when the remaining planes would immediately all turn and chase the closest opponent  down and "steal" another kill from the same "unlucky" chap.



vcharng #55 Posted 26 February 2019 - 12:56 AM

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View PostWhite_Widow18, on 24 February 2019 - 10:51 PM, said:

Whoever gets last hit gets the credit. You get "major contribution" if they nail it and drop it. WHich is only 125 points. They still get 200.

 

you get 125 + all the score for the HP you chipped away from the target.

he gets 200+ practically nothing as he did few damage.



bradk62 #56 Posted 26 February 2019 - 01:27 AM

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View PostWhite_Widow18, on 25 February 2019 - 09:00 PM, said:

 Do you shoot them down back as a warning from the damage they've done to your plane with overspray and your score with kill grabbing?

I don't think you can shoot your own teammates down in 2.x.

 

If I'm wrong, please let me know.  I often fire at enemies thru my teammates and haven't killed (or noticeably damaged) anyone yet. 



hoom #57 Posted 26 February 2019 - 01:56 AM

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OP description is something I've never seen, pretty bizzare & I dunno how I'd respond if it happened to me :amazed:

Probably mainly just try to split to other area but that doesn't seem to have worked.

 

In the general case this is how I see 'kill steals'

Block Quote

 The consensus seemed to be:  If you kill a plane, good on you, it's one less plane to worry about.

 

Sometimes I think I probably look like I'm kill stealing due to getting on target after someone else due to speed/agility/being busy with a dfferent target.

Sometimes same thing is happening to me.

 

Have definitely experienced the guy who thinks I kill stole his light defense fighter at the start of the battle & then chases me round shooting me.

Have had a chat ban for the names I called him, possibly did take a pop-shot or two back one time.

 

The one guaranteed way to avoid having someone kill steal is to go out trying to achieve an Assist daily mission.

You can go round knocking as many planes as you want down to single digit hitpoints but nobody is gonna put in that last hit, not bots, not players nada :bajan:

 

Block Quote

 If I'm wrong, please let me know. 

 

You definitely can shoot down friendlies.


Edited by hoom, 26 February 2019 - 04:59 AM.

C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas le SerB.

trikke #58 Posted 26 February 2019 - 03:55 AM

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View PostWhite_Widow18, on 25 February 2019 - 04:49 PM, said:

Ya know the greatest thing about this thread? There's been a lot of honest banter and question and not once has anyone gone ka-boom on anyone.

 

sometimes we fight like brothers and sisters, but we generally stand together as a family on this forum

 

it is unusual... and amazing 


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bradk62 #59 Posted 26 February 2019 - 05:11 AM

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View Posthoom, on 26 February 2019 - 01:56 AM, said:

 

The one guaranteed way to avoid having someone kill steal is to go out trying to achieve an Assist daily mission.

 

So true.  I'll mortally wound 4 or 5 ADF and am lucky if I get assist out of the bunch.



Cenotaph #60 Posted 26 February 2019 - 05:28 PM

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View Postbradk62, on 25 February 2019 - 05:27 PM, said:

I don't think you can shoot your own teammates down in 2.x.

 

If I'm wrong, please let me know.  I often fire at enemies thru my teammates and haven't killed (or noticeably damaged) anyone yet. 

 

You are wrong...

 

Watch the video...

 


Edited by Cenotaph, 26 February 2019 - 05:29 PM.

I don't want to hurt you... I just want to kill you!





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