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Anyone else ever run into a kill-thief?

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trikke #21 Posted 25 February 2019 - 03:45 AM

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View PostWhite_Widow18, on 24 February 2019 - 10:34 PM, said:

But that.. that was insane.. Why three times.. that's headhunting a teammate and that's just... why?

 

disturbed people walk among us every day


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Maverick_Rivers #22 Posted 25 February 2019 - 03:50 AM

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Whoever kills it gets the kill, has been my experience.
Spoiler

 


Bobby_Tables #23 Posted 25 February 2019 - 04:06 AM

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This was also an issue in 1.X before the bots.  The consensus seemed to be:  If you kill a plane, good on you, it's one less plane to worry about.

 

In the respawn hell of 2.x, it's a bit different but not so much.  If you are over a cap and you kill a plane, doesn't matter if someone else chewed them to pieces.  If they didn't finish the job, then someone else will.  In my world, there is no such thing as a kill-thief.  There is only a kill-fail.  If you fail to kill your target, then someone else will.  

 

That person following you around might be trying to help you win.  There are exceptions to this rule, but in general, to me, if it's over a cap, it's fair game.  (Even if not over a cap, but sometimes I will make an exception when it doesn't matter as much).

 

I used to give other players the benefit of the doubt and peel off when they were peppering an enemy plane.  Too many times they died and that enemy plane came for me.  If I have a shot, I take it.  No questions asked, no apologies given.  I have seen far too many players chase a plane around and around, never getting the kill shot to waste my time letting them get the kill.  If I can kill the plane and it is over a cap, I take it.  I don't care what you think.  If you could have killed it, you would have killed it.  If you didn't then shame on you, I got it, now move on and kill another plane for Gods sake and stop playing with it like a cat with a captive mouse.  

 

Personally, I love it when someone kills the plane I have been chasing to get the kill.  It helps me move on and capture bases rather than turn and burn against some plane for ever and ever.  I do like dogfights, but if that enemy dies because of another player, it's all good.  There are plenty more planes to kill and if the storm has not yet hit, they will be back.  



White_Widow18 #24 Posted 25 February 2019 - 04:09 AM

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I mean someone who -specifically- -follows- you and -purposely- times it to only burst fire once you've knocked them down to almost dead. It's not that you couldn't have finished it or your weapons were overheated, it's that they are specifically being vulturuous.

There -is- a difference between a kill-thief/vulture and someone who did you a solid and I appreciate that difference very much.

Bobby_Tables #25 Posted 25 February 2019 - 04:13 AM

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View PostWhite_Widow18, on 24 February 2019 - 10:09 PM, said:

I mean someone who -specifically- -follows- you and -purposely- times it to only burst fire once you've knocked them down to almost dead. It's not that you couldn't have finished it or your weapons were overheated, it's that they are specifically being vulturuous.

There -is- a difference between a kill-thief/vulture and someone who did you a solid and I appreciate that difference very much.

 

A fine line, to be sure.  Then again, I am so bad, no one follows me around to kill my targets.  :(

SpiritFoxMY #26 Posted 25 February 2019 - 05:18 AM

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I honestly don't ever remember any such instances. Of course, the way I fly, if you wanna follow me around and vulture my kills, it's your funeral. If you get out of it alive you'll have earned it. 

***

But a truce to this mournful story

For death is a distant friend

So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


wylleEcoyote #27 Posted 25 February 2019 - 05:40 AM

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So i wrote a long drawn out screed attempting to answer the question "How are Kills Credited?"
Based on what personal experience i could remember of the top of my head.
It was (Mostly) Wrong.
So i am cramming my shameful display into the Spoiler

Blindfold explains it all with some useful #WordOfGod from the Dev's themselves further down the page.
... sooo Just keep scrolling, scrolling, scrolling...

Edited by wylleEcoyote, 25 February 2019 - 08:51 PM.

Fair warning. My success rate at speculative guesswork is much like my WinRate. Hit or Miss.
Usually I start on the right track and then a make a weird left turn and get lost in the weeds ... 
And yet it doesn't stop me from speculation.

Specialist Planes earned: Japan, USA, UK, Germany, USSR, Europe
Light Fighters:   XP-31, Model 81A-1P-39N-1, P-40, XP-55, P-51A, XF15C, DH.100 F1, Spitfire V DB 605,
Fw 56/159, He 51/112, Ar 68/80, Bf 109 B/E/E-3/F, Me 209 v4/A, Me P.1092, I-17
MultiRole Fighters: Type 91, F11C-2, F4F, P-26 /-35 /-43, XP-44, P-47B,
Ar 65, Fw 190 A-1/A-5/D, I- 5 / 15 / 16(e)(l)

Heavy Fighters: P-38 F/J, P-82BXP-58, Beaufighter,  Ao 192, Bf 110 C-6, Me 410, Do 335 A-1, Me 262, Tu-1, SE 100,

Attack Aircraft: Hs 123, Ha 137, Hs 129 A, Ju 87 G, Me 265, Me 1099 B-2
Bombers: Do 17 Z, He 111 H2, Pe-2, Do 217 M
 


wylleEcoyote #28 Posted 25 February 2019 - 05:55 AM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 25 February 2019 - 12:18 AM, said:

I honestly don't ever remember any such instances. Of course, the way I fly, if you wanna follow me around and vulture my kills, it's your funeral. If you get out of it alive you'll have earned it. 

 

If anything i wanna follow around the enemies that are following you and steal those kills ...

 


Fair warning. My success rate at speculative guesswork is much like my WinRate. Hit or Miss.
Usually I start on the right track and then a make a weird left turn and get lost in the weeds ... 
And yet it doesn't stop me from speculation.

Specialist Planes earned: Japan, USA, UK, Germany, USSR, Europe
Light Fighters:   XP-31, Model 81A-1P-39N-1, P-40, XP-55, P-51A, XF15C, DH.100 F1, Spitfire V DB 605,
Fw 56/159, He 51/112, Ar 68/80, Bf 109 B/E/E-3/F, Me 209 v4/A, Me P.1092, I-17
MultiRole Fighters: Type 91, F11C-2, F4F, P-26 /-35 /-43, XP-44, P-47B,
Ar 65, Fw 190 A-1/A-5/D, I- 5 / 15 / 16(e)(l)

Heavy Fighters: P-38 F/J, P-82BXP-58, Beaufighter,  Ao 192, Bf 110 C-6, Me 410, Do 335 A-1, Me 262, Tu-1, SE 100,

Attack Aircraft: Hs 123, Ha 137, Hs 129 A, Ju 87 G, Me 265, Me 1099 B-2
Bombers: Do 17 Z, He 111 H2, Pe-2, Do 217 M
 


Zaikadi #29 Posted 25 February 2019 - 07:43 AM

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Getting the kill matters if you're trying to get Specialist with a plane. I had a guy with a P39F follow me around in multiple battles one evening, stealing my kills. It got quite frustrating. Sometimes, it took me a long struggle to whittle a plane's health down, and then he would swoop down from above and blast the last 60 HPs. He did this 6 times in one of the battles.


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Nakajima Ki-84 Hayate  |  Kawasaki Ki-102   |  Kawasaki Ki-61 Hien  |  Bell P-39N1 Airacobra  |  Heinkel He 111 H2  |  Polikarpov I-17  |  Curtiss P-40  |   Mitsubishi A6M5  |  Nakajima A4N  |  Messerschmidt Bf 109 B  |  Messerschmidt Bf 109 E  |  Polikarpov I-16 (e.)  |  Fairey Fantome  |  Me 410 Hornisse


Captain_Underpants53 #30 Posted 25 February 2019 - 07:45 AM

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View PostCenotaph, on 24 February 2019 - 10:10 PM, said:

 

Did "The one who's teeth are sharp" get renamed/change his name to avoid being noticed?

 

Because that sure seemed like him...

 

That guy you refer to was infamous for doing that (team killing) but he was also unable to stop spouting off. 

Edited by Captain_Underpants53, 25 February 2019 - 07:52 AM.

MSgt, USAF, (ret)

Bobby_Tables #31 Posted 25 February 2019 - 08:03 AM

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View PostClosedCoffin, on 24 February 2019 - 09:06 PM, said:

 

Never had that exact type situation but In bombers I appreciate a teammate in a following bomber or GAA because I often have trouble finishing off targets and better we get the capture than an enemy.

I'm quite sure this is not what your talking about though.

 

Here's another rather comical side of the kill stealing effect.

Apparently, in the game below, i was the kill thief and the aggrieved teammate followed me around all game killing me.

The 'steal' happened sometime in the first minute.

My deaths were logged as 'aircraft crashed'.

 

 

HOLY COW!   I did once have someone on my "team" fly half way over the map to try to shoot me down because (I was in a GA) I didn't help the air furball.  

 

Anyway, I missed this because my narcissistic self just read the posts after my post.  

 

BTW:  What did you use to record this?  It wasn't a WOWP replay file, so I am curious because the quality was good. 



Chuck_norris10 #32 Posted 25 February 2019 - 08:31 AM

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View PostwylleEcoyote, on 24 February 2019 - 10:40 PM, said:

Aerial kills and the credit for them are not computed in the same way that Ground targets are. Period.
Knowledge of the latter is not helpful for the former except in the very broadest of sense.

Moving on.

Get in a battle. fly about. find a target. 

You do some shooting in the targets general direction. Maybe you do some damage. But it is not a lot. Target fly away. You fly away. 
At this point you get some personal points for causing aerial damage. Not a lot. but you get some.

Later on lets presume the target is destroyed. 
What happens next depends on the nature of the target in question.
  • If the target was an ADA and gets destroyed by the cap being flipped... then you get nothing.
  • If the target is an ADA or an Enemy Aircraft (or Enemy) that is destroyed by someone else on your team (hereafter named Allied AirCraft or Ally) you get that 75 points notification for assisting. And at the end of the match it shows up as an assist.

Please note: At the same time as the above happened, The Ally that finished off the target in question by doing all the other damage will get 125 points for "Major contribution" And Credit for an Aerial Kill when it comes to personal point calculation/medals/commendations/missions etc etc.

Further extrapolation: perhaps more than one Ally damaged the target. They get credit for an assist as well. and that 75 point notification.
But in the end everyone that did damage gets an assist (for what that is worth)
Who ever did the Most Damage to the Target (as long as that damage meets a minimum threshold) gets the Major Contribution.
And finally whoever on your team (Bot or Human) did the last point of damage, gets credit for the Kill.

What can cause confusion for this is when you factor in friendly ADA.

Suppose an Enemy bomber is flying over a friendly Garrison that you (and just you) are in.
the local ADA rise up to shoot them down.
It IS a garrison so the ADA in question are 2 Heavies. As such they (and friendly Anti Air Artillery) damage the bomber a lot while you climb to get after that bomber.
By the time you get your shots in there are only 30 hitpoints left (the bomber started with 1000 hp)  And you do that last 30 points of damage.
Here is what happens.

you get credit for the following:
  • Doing 30 points of aerial damage
  • An aerial Kill
  • and (this is important) if no other Ally (ADA/anti-air-artillery DO NOT COUNT) damaged the plane
    you also get the 200 point notification normally reserved for a pilot that removed ALL the hit points from a plane.
         

Hope this clears things up

THat said; everything i have posted here is strictly off the top of my head. I could be wrong about a detail or three.

Ideally some video of a couple of pilots getting into a training room
in similar air planes that rely more on sustained DPM as opposed to massive Alpha damage.
And trying out these various scenarios with some other plane to be used as a convenient target.
All done with Voice comms so every participant can tell us what is happening and when.   
would be the Ideal solution to OP's questions.
 

 

Thanks!  If I got a kill credit for every plane I finished off I would have an ace every battle and it's the reason why I paid a lot of attention to it this weekend.In a furball I'm shooting any red guy that gets in my sights and I can still wipe a dozen planes from the map and  only get 3 kills.

 

EDIT-just watched my last match,3 seperate kill shots on low hp targets who were alone....3 assists.


Edited by Chuck_norris10, 25 February 2019 - 08:56 AM.

 

 


 

trikke #33 Posted 25 February 2019 - 11:36 AM

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View PostwylleEcoyote, on 25 February 2019 - 12:55 AM, said:

If anything i wanna follow around the enemies that are following you and steal those kills ...

 

he always has a string of guys following him, sometimes it looks like an old-fashioned kite tail

 

he's a legit honey badger 

 

but i usually can't kill them fast enough to save him, or else i'm off chasing something shiny


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CorvusCorvax #34 Posted 25 February 2019 - 02:42 PM

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View PostBobby_Tables, on 25 February 2019 - 08:03 AM, said:

 

HOLY COW!   I did once have someone on my "team" fly half way over the map to try to shoot me down because (I was in a GA) I didn't help the air furball.  

 

Anyway, I missed this because my narcissistic self just read the posts after my post.  

 

BTW:  What did you use to record this?  It wasn't a WOWP replay file, so I am curious because the quality was good. 

 

Seriously, that sucked.  I don't think I would have shown restraint with my guns.  I would have knocked him down to 10HP and let him run around until he died. 

 

I actually have the same question about the recording.



blindfoId #35 Posted 25 February 2019 - 03:01 PM

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Technically it works like this when it comes to getting credit:

 

Enemy Aircraft Destruction Get the killing blow on an enemy aircraft. 200 (PP)
Major Contribution Deal more than 60% of damage to an enemy aircraft, destroyed by another team member. 125 (PP)
Assistance in Destruction Deal the damage (<60%) to the aircraft, destroyed by another team member. 75 (PP)
Enemy Aircraft Damage Reward for every 1% of damage to an enemy aircraft. 10 (PP)

 

Sometimes you may even not notice that someone else was assisting your target (a player, a bot, an ADA, AA guns) and dealt the killing blow and you are awarded with either 75 or 125 PP for that targets. Sometimes you set an aircraft on fire and it seems like someone else got the last hit but that target was destroyed by fire (set by you) and you receive 200 PP for killing a target. Still. The last hit counts. And do not forget that all information is registered on the server side so what you see on your screen may slightly differ from what is really going on especially if you have a little troubles with connection.



trikke #36 Posted 25 February 2019 - 04:19 PM

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View PostClosedCoffin, on 24 February 2019 - 10:06 PM, said:

My deaths were logged as 'aircraft crashed'.

 

and that bothers me, because you certainly didn't crash          it counted against him as a TK, wouldn't it?

 

aw jeez... there's no justice in the real world either


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Cenotaph #37 Posted 25 February 2019 - 04:38 PM

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View PostChuck_norris10, on 25 February 2019 - 12:31 AM, said:

 

Thanks!  If I got a kill credit for every plane I finished off I would have an ace every battle and it's the reason why I paid a lot of attention to it this weekend.In a furball I'm shooting any red guy that gets in my sights and I can still wipe a dozen planes from the map and  only get 3 kills.

 

EDIT-just watched my last match,3 seperate kill shots on low hp targets who were alone....3 assists.

 

Well guys, looks like we're all wrong...

 

The guy who can't even stay connected for an entire battle, and still hasn't even made the 1000 battle req's for the HoF -clearly- knows more about how things work than we do...     :sceptic:


I don't want to hurt you... I just want to kill you!

CorvusCorvax #38 Posted 25 February 2019 - 04:43 PM

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View PostCenotaph, on 25 February 2019 - 04:38 PM, said:

 

Well guys, looks like we're all wrong...

 

The guy who can't even stay connected for an entire battle, and still hasn't even made the 1000 battle req's for the HoF -clearly- knows more about how things work than we do...     :sceptic:

 

I'm glad you said it.

 

LOL, just LOL.



ClosedCoffin #39 Posted 25 February 2019 - 05:48 PM

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View PostBobby_Tables, on 25 February 2019 - 08:03 AM, said:

....

BTW:  What did you use to record this?  It wasn't a WOWP replay file, so I am curious because the quality was good. 

 

This is an MP4 screen capture recorded with a program, 'GE Force Experience' I believe, that is offered with NVidea video cards.

I have 'Start recording' an 'Stop recording' on key-bind.

They're huge files tho, a full game takes up to 3gb.

I can keep same video quality and shrink file to about 900mb by running and saving it through the MS Photos program.

 


Edited by ClosedCoffin, 25 February 2019 - 05:56 PM.


Leadlooser #40 Posted 25 February 2019 - 06:01 PM

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Coffin,

Thanks for the video.  What a/an ~!  You, however, were remarkably restrained.  Good on ya.

 

To the thread message,

 

The Captain and I were coincidentally teamed-up and I enjoyed swatting the flies of his giant bomber tail.  He must stink!  I know that they would not consider me a kill thief, but another might mistake my cover fire for kill stealing/theft.  Sadly, their altitude and speed coupled with my need for all the micro gunnery deflects meant we soon were parted and separated, and were sent to the hangar.  My F-2G and their B-32 just didn't quite have enough mutual strengths to properly work in a fighter/bomber escort mission.

 

My issue is over-pursuing an enemy to scrape off the final HP to get the victory.  Choosing one's fights is key, and sometimes I fail to target-shift when I should just to take another set of guns out of the game.  However, should we all concentrate on more opportune targets, (higher threat and lower HP), this could seem to be thievery, but my goal is always to help the team win.  That's probably why my stats are so poor, (more likely; I'm probably doing something wrong).

 

I guess the OP really is asking whether the 'kill count,' and 'damage dealt' are properly balanced.  In this, I do feel some unfairness.  I regularly have amongst the highest damage and 'kills,' but am relegated to the middle of the score report.  Plane type specific goals are important to this, but sometimes one's team requires us to fly outside of these envelopes - we have to defend with attackers, or finish off bases solo in a LF.

 

In the end, I don't really worry about 'kill-thievery' as long as it is contributing to the team objective, to win.  Having typed that, I would seem to inhibit XP gains and stats (don't much care about those).  In Coffin's case, that guy Spit pilot should be sanctioned with the obvious flagrant unsportsmanlike behaviour.  That kind of thing detracts from the game and oozes in to this community forum. 







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