32 replies to this topic

[legoboy0401]

My goodness these guys are ridiculous. They NEVER miss with that 45 mm cannon. LITERALLY EVERY SHOT THEY FIRE WITH THAT THING CONNECTS. I've had them both on my team, and on the enemy team, and on my team they are the WORST teammates because they are EXTREMELY EFFICIENT KILL-STEALERS, but on the enemy team... ... No, that comparison won't work.

 

You know that one guy in EVERY first-person shooter that, when you load into a match you are like "I think I had better steer clear of that guy", but you don't see him around you so you go look for and fight other enemy players, and when you've killed one but are left on very low health, or you are just plain distracted period, he swoops in, effortlessly kills you before you even knew that he was there, and takes off again and vanishes. You think it's just a fluke, so when you respawn, you look around you extra carefully for any signs that he might be near, but of course he isn't, so you go back to hunting other enemy players, but just when you think "Yay, maybe it WAS just a fluke and he won't come and get me this time", you find yourself in the exact same tactical situation as last time, and in he comes again, takes you out again, and vanishes again. When you respawn and inevitably decide to try and hunt him down, he hides or tricks you into going to one extreme end of the map, while he runs to the exact opposite end, you try going to that end, he runs to the end of the map where you just were(somehow without being spotted) rinse, repeat.

 

THAT is EXACTLY what it is like to have at least one BOT Yak 9 on the enemy team, and as my description might indicate, YES, IT IS RIDICULOUS AND INFURIATING AS ALL GET-OUT.

Edited by legoboy0401, 11 February 2019 - 04:02 AM.

[SpiritFoxMY]

Wait until you get to tier X and run into your first I-215 terminator 

[legoboy0401]

SpiritFoxMY, on 10 February 2019 - 07:59 PM, said:

Wait until you get to tier X and run into your first I-215 terminator 

 

Their specific playstyle that I described above is annoying as, if not more so, than their 45 never missing, which is really saying something because that 45 is balanced around being fairly hard to hit with on small, agile targets.

[Stygian_Alchemist]

SpiritFoxMY, on 10 February 2019 - 09:59 PM, said:

Wait until you get to tier X and run into your first I-215 terminator 

 

That exactly.

Weirdly I am not pro nerfing bots. I just want the bot teams to be more balanced.

[SpiritFoxMY]

Headhunting and revenge mechanics are actually present in more than just the Yaks. This is something a few of us have observed that there are certain bot "personalities" if you will that mirror and react to player behavior.

 

That's a complicated way of saying there are certain bots that, if you shoot them down, WILL come back looking for revenge.

 

Other "player-like behaviour" I've observed have been the target fixated (where a bot single-mindedly tries to kill you regardless of anything else around it), the feint (where a bot runs or climbs away from you until you turn your nose away from him then jumps on you), the rammer (where they deliberately try to fly into you), the GA dogfighter (where Attack Airplanes take an active interest in shooting you down with their forward guns), and the "altitude is a suggestion", where you see bots flying far above their optimum.

 

Its also been noted that Multiroles, particularly those with Big Fckin Guns are exceptionally aggressive and often display two or more of the above behaviours. The most egregious offenders actually being the Shidens at tier 8, 9 and 10 who happily chase targets well into their red zones and chase down players to the exclusion of everyone else. 

Edited by SpiritFoxMY, 11 February 2019 - 04:58 AM.

[legoboy0401]

SpiritFoxMY, on 10 February 2019 - 08:57 PM, said:

Headhunting and revenge mechanics are actually present in more than just the Yaks. This is something a few of us have observed that there are certain bot "personalities" if you will that mirror and react to player behavior.

 

That's a complicated way of saying there are certain bots that, if you shoot them down, WILL come back looking for revenge.

 

Other "player-like behaviour" I've observed have been the target fixated (where a bot single-mindedly tries to kill you regardless of anything else around it), the feint (where a bot runs or climbs away from you until you turn your nose away from him then jumps on you), the rammer (where they deliberately try to fly into you), the GA dogfighter (where Attack Airplanes take an active interest in shooting you down with their forward guns), and the "altitude is a suggestion", where you see bots flying far above their optimum.

 

Its also been noted that Multiroles, particularly those with Big Fckin Guns are exceptionally aggressive and often display two or more of the above behaviours. The most egregious offenders actually being the Shidens at tier 8, 9 and 10 who happily chase targets well into their red zones and chase down players to the exclusion of everyone else. 

Having the feint supporting exceptional players on it's team is an exercise in infuriation and torment.

[legoboy0401]

SpiritFoxMY, on 10 February 2019 - 08:57 PM, said:

Headhunting and revenge mechanics are actually present in more than just the Yaks. This is something a few of us have observed that there are certain bot "personalities" if you will that mirror and react to player behavior.

 

That's a complicated way of saying there are certain bots that, if you shoot them down, WILL come back looking for revenge.

 

Other "player-like behaviour" I've observed have been the target fixated (where a bot single-mindedly tries to kill you regardless of anything else around it), the feint (where a bot runs or climbs away from you until you turn your nose away from him then jumps on you), the rammer (where they deliberately try to fly into you), the GA dogfighter (where Attack Airplanes take an active interest in shooting you down with their forward guns), and the "altitude is a suggestion", where you see bots flying far above their optimum.

 

Its also been noted that Multiroles, particularly those with Big Fckin Guns are exceptionally aggressive and often display two or more of the above behaviours. The most egregious offenders actually being the Shidens at tier 8, 9 and 10 who happily chase targets well into their red zones and chase down players to the exclusion of everyone else. 

Have you ever seen the "wait until the target that everyone is chasing is almost dead and then just steal the kill" class of bot behavior before?

[CorvusCorvax]

I have also noticed that bot behavior changes after the squall line hits.  They seem much more aggressive, and also seem to figure out how to team up.

 

I was flying my BV P.203 yesterday, and after the squall line, a bot Me-262 and a bot BV P.210 decided to team up on me, and came and found me to do so.

 

I got lucky in that battle, because I critted the 262's engine, and was able to run away from the batwing chasing down the Swallow.  Then turn and zap the batwing before it got into rocket range.  But plenty of times in the past, I have found myself in the middle of two or three bots, where before the squall line, they were never seen together.

[LMG]

legoboy0401, on 10 February 2019 - 11:04 PM, said:

Their specific playstyle that I described above is annoying as, if not more so, than their 45 never missing, which is really saying something because that 45 is balanced around being fairly hard to hit with on small, agile targets.

 

All-or-nothing mechanics are never properly balanced because... well.. it'll either be broken when someone can use it reliably, or not good enough to bother with it most of the time. Kinda why you mostly see it in single-player games, where it doesn't quite matter as much if someone can nuke the final boss if they find out how to. In multiplayer games I'm yet to see such mechanics properly implemented without being extremely niche or borderline game-breaking in some situations, and here we have both extremes all over the place 

 

The problem is: if they can't hit reliably with their guns then they're useless. If they hit reliably, then they're too strong. It'll either go one way or another, no real middle-ground with planes that live and die on killing enemies in 1-2 hits 

Edited by LMG, 11 February 2019 - 06:05 AM.

[legoboy0401]

LMG, on 10 February 2019 - 10:02 PM, said:

 

All-or-nothing mechanics are never properly balanced because... well.. it'll either be broken when someone can use it reliably, or not good enough to bother with it most of the time. Kinda why you mostly see it in single-player games, where it doesn't quite matter as much if someone can nuke the final boss if they find out how to. In multiplayer games I'm yet to see such mechanics properly implemented without being extremely niche or borderline game-breaking in some situations, and here we have both extremes all over the place 

 

The problem is: if they can't hit reliably with their guns then they're useless. If they hit reliably, then they're too strong. It'll either go one way or another, no real middle-ground with planes that live and die on killing enemies in 1-2 hits 

 

What do you make of that second playstyle I mentioned though? Have you seen it? Is it not INCREDIBLY FRUSTRATING?

[LMG]

legoboy0401, on 11 February 2019 - 01:12 AM, said:

What do you make of that second playstyle I mentioned though? Have you seen it? Is it not INCREDIBLY FRUSTRATING?

 

Let me put it this way: There's a reason I don't really play competitive multiplayer games on a regular basis .

 

Anyways, that's playing as an opportunist, and indeed it's very rough when they lock onto you. They're always watching for you to let your guard down, and certainly won't stay near you if you're aware of them. Though in the case of WoWP that would be more like what you'd expect of a BnZ plane, I certainly had to play like that on the Me 109 TL because all that thing does is hit hard and go mildly fast, on a tier where a lot of planes go faster and hit harder 

 

Soviet Multiroles gameplay-wise are all about area denial. Can't go near them on your own without risking a 45 through the windshield. So it's more like having to deal with that sniper that's always holed up somewhere hard to reach, probably with a claymore or two covering their rear. Not only that, some of those bots love to play "guard dog" and stay behind and fly circles over a captured sector for a very long while; not sure if it's their AI bugging out and thinking they're ADAs (which happened once before) or if they're purposely waiting for incoming GAAs 

Edited by LMG, 11 February 2019 - 06:33 AM.

[TankNoob1960]

White_Widow18, on 10 February 2019 - 08:38 PM, said:

 

That exactly.

Weirdly I am not pro nerfing bots. I just want the bot teams to be more balanced.

 

Well, I sure had fun trying to catch your ME 262 HE tonight. (and failing miserably)

Good games.

Gunny

[GonerNL]

Yep, I hate those one shot uberbots with heavy guns. It started with Yak-7 and -9 and now also with the new Jap Ki heavies, the I-260 etc

Also with rockets on the German  BV.

What seriously irritates me is the maneuvers some bots are able to pull, which defy all aerodynamic and gravitational laws. I mean, dogfighting a P-47 with a Spit and he actually evades you ?! Even bot bombers and GA engage in dogfights.

 

Edited by GonerNL, 11 February 2019 - 09:17 AM.

[hoom]

I for one welcome our new 45mm robot overlords

 

Seriously its a Good Thing that the big guns hit and most bots do smarter moves now, even when I get [edited] over by it.

[SpiritFoxMY]

GonerNL, on 11 February 2019 - 05:17 PM, said:

Also with rockets on the German  BV.

 

This one is long overdue I think. If you go head on with a BV or Starfire, you deserve what you get. Honestly they don't snipe you with a ridiculous long range shot - they rocket you if you're dumb enough to fly face first at them

[Captain_Underpants53]

GonerNL, on 11 February 2019 - 04:17 AM, said:

Yep, I hate those one shot uberbots with heavy guns. It started with Yak-7 and -9 and now also with the new Jap Ki heavies, the I-260 etc

Also with rockets on the German  BV.

What seriously irritates me is the maneuvers some bots are able to pull, which defy all aerodynamic and gravitational laws. I mean, dogfighting a P-47 with a Spit and he actually evades you ?! Even bot bombers and GA engage in dogfights.

 

I get aggravated with the bots that pester you until you get them almost dead. And then they go zipping off at warp speed, critical wings/engines be danged.  Then they heal up a bit away to come back and repeat this behavior, over and over. 

 

And I don't really find headhunting bots to be all that 'player like behavior'.  I mean, there are players who indulge in headhunting, but when you think about it, it's a fairly rare activity.  Most players are motivated to win or, at least, score well.  Bots could give a flip.

[GonerNL]

SpiritFoxMY, on 11 February 2019 - 10:23 AM, said:

 

 If you go head on with a BV or Starfire, you deserve what you get. 

 

That's the problem ; as soon as I see it's a BV I immediately evade/swerve , but often they still get you from impossible angles ... I especially got the BV because I thought it was a Wunderwaffe, but only in the 'hands' of bots it seems ...

[SpiritFoxMY]

GonerNL, on 11 February 2019 - 07:12 PM, said:

 

That's the problem ; as soon as I see it's a BV I immediately evade/swerve , but often they still get you from impossible angles ... I especially got the BV because I thought it was a Wunderwaffe, but only in the 'hands' of bots it seems ...

 

BV212.03 is an incredible airplane. I personally prefer it to every other tier 9 I've flown to date and most tier Xs

[legoboy0401]

I, for one, have started to notice that the bot Yak 9s will prioritize certain aircraft types. I haven't ever seen one with a GAA kill to its name yet, but I've seen Light Fighters, other Multi-Roles, Heavies and sometimes the ever-inept bot bombers as kills acredited to Yak 9s.

 

Speaking of which, am I the only one who has noticed that bot Bombers, especially bot Pe-2s, are pretty unique among playerbots because they seem to have no personality to speak of except for that of UTTERLY SUCKING?

[legoboy0401]

SpiritFoxMY, on 11 February 2019 - 03:36 AM, said:

 

BV212.03 is an incredible airplane. I personally prefer it to every other tier 9 I've flown to date and most tier Xs

 

I hear the Starfire is much better and more entertaining that the F7U Cutlass that succeeds it, in fact it would be a nearly perfect aircraft if its airframe had better performance characteristics. I feel like the Cutlass feels more like a better armed, but with less ordinance, Thunderstreak than anything that belongs to the Corsair tree. It doesn't even really even share the Corsairs' playstyle, only their armament.

 

Tironan does not like his, and does not play it much at all.

 

Say, back on the topic of bots also being OP with air-to-air rockets, are they any good with the rockets on the 262 and 262 HG II?