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Quick Request to WG: Ensure that Specialist missions are in line with both the class's role and ...


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Poll: Would you be for WG making sure that all specialist missions correspond exactly with both what the class is designed to do and what the individual line is capable of doing(not making Yak 9s and 9Us have to go after ground targets if they do at the moment, (11 members have cast votes)

Would you be for WG making sure that all specialist missions correspond exactly with both what the class is designed to do and what the individual line(even perhaps individual planes, if it isn't too much) is(are) capable of doing?

  1. yes (11 votes [100.00%] - View)

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  2. no (0 votes [0.00%])

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  3. I don't know (0 votes [0.00%])

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legoboy0401 #1 Posted 07 February 2019 - 07:51 PM

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One thing that irks me, is how some specialist missions, for Bombers especially, don't correspond with what their purpose is.

 

For Bombers, the stupid one is "shoot down x number planes with a gunner", which is just ridiculous for some(yes, I know, NOT ALL, but SOME) Bombers, namely the German Tech Tree ones,(the B-17D as well) but especially planes like the SB, Blenheim IV(e), and the AR-2, of which the SB and AR-2 have some of the most hopeless defenses I've ever seen on a bomber.

 

For those two, THEY HAVE NO BUSINESS having to SHOOT DOWN PLANES WITH THEIR GUNNERS TO GET SPECIALIST ON THEM. THEY ARE UTTERLY INCAPABLE OF IT EXCEPT PERHAPS IN THE INSTANCE OF AN ENEMY PLANE ON 5 OR LESS HP.

 

Dear WG, 

 

If you want all bombers to have to get plane kills with their gunners to become specialist, MAKE ALL BOMBERS CAPABLE OF DEFENDING THEMSELVES PROPERLY!!!!

 

Regards, Legoboy0401


Edited by legoboy0401, 07 February 2019 - 07:58 PM.

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Deltavee #2 Posted 07 February 2019 - 08:36 PM

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View Postlegoboy0401, on 07 February 2019 - 02:51 PM, said:

One thing that irks me, is how some specialist missions, for Bombers especially, don't correspond with what their purpose is.

 

For Bombers, the stupid one is "shoot down x number planes with a gunner", which is just ridiculous for some(yes, I know, NOT ALL, but SOME) Bombers, namely the German Tech Tree ones,(the B-17D as well) but especially planes like the SB, Blenheim IV(e), and the AR-2, of which the SB and AR-2 have some of the most hopeless defenses I've ever seen on a bomber.

 

For those two, THEY HAVE NO BUSINESS having to SHOOT DOWN PLANES WITH THEIR GUNNERS TO GET SPECIALIST ON THEM. THEY ARE UTTERLY INCAPABLE OF IT EXCEPT PERHAPS IN THE INSTANCE OF AN ENEMY PLANE ON 5 OR LESS HP.

 

Dear WG, 

 

If you want all bombers to have to get plane kills with their gunners to become specialist, MAKE ALL BOMBERS CAPABLE OF DEFENDING THEMSELVES PROPERLY!!!!

 

Regards, Legoboy0401

 

Gods yes!  Not a bomber guy myself, though. 

I have several planes that I like to fly that have made it to specialist status but I have not bought the specialist ranking simply I don't like flying in the games with a set of wings on the aircraft that say "I'm definitely not a bot so Kill Me First."

 

In a similar vein, frankly I don't pursue daily missions because I rejected the whole token gimmick right back when I started playing the game.

I do look at the daily missions and if there is one I feel is not completely ridiculous I will leave it up but I will not bust my butt trying to fulfil the requirements.  If one is completely unaccessible I'll do the one-change-per-day bit but after that they are all ignored in the course of my game play.

 

I just leave them up and play the game in eras 1 and 2 as I always do and from time-to-time during a string of battles on the post-battle personal results page I find a line saying I completed the "Shoot an enemy pilot in the left eye from 2,000 metres" or whatever daily mission and I have been awarded 10,000 or 25,000 silver.  Cool, but I'm not going to dedicate my games to using one particular aircraft type to accomplish one of the ends specified in the dailies to get the reward.

In addition I do not have any Tier 8-10 aircraft yet and won't for a while so the so-desirable tokens are inaccessible to me anyway. 

In effect, the tokens are awarded solely to the Tier 8-10 players.

 

For me it falls into the same category as garnering points to improve crew members.  The incremental jumps are ridiculous and as such are utterly and completely ignored.  If it happens, fine, but pursue it?  Pfffft, no.

/end rant

 

legoboy has a point.  Being asked to do something that is patently impossible needs to be rectified.


Edited by Deltavee, 07 February 2019 - 09:14 PM.

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LeastWeasel #3 Posted 07 February 2019 - 08:43 PM

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Just started towards grinding specialist on my Do 217M - and wow. Short of plowing it through a cap full of heavily-injured planes, I really don’t know how long 15 kills will take. Even one seeme exceptionally rare.

Reitousair #4 Posted 07 February 2019 - 09:00 PM

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This was discussed on the WoWp Discord recently funnily enough, to summarize the plans that were drafted: 

 

GA have their specialist missions changed to "ground targets destroyed" and "capture points earned."

 

Bombers have their specialist missions changed to "sections of ground targets (aka buildings) destroyed" and "sectors captured."

 

 

Pretty much everyone agrees with the notion that bomber specialization requirements are utter garbage with only the B-17G, B-32, and RB-17 having any real hope of completing the secondary mission in something resembling a timely manner.


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Captain_Underpants53 #5 Posted 07 February 2019 - 10:41 PM

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View PostReitousair, on 07 February 2019 - 04:00 PM, said:

This was discussed on the WoWp Discord recently funnily enough, to summarize the plans that were drafted: 

 

GA have their specialist missions changed to "ground targets destroyed" and "capture points earned."

 

Bombers have their specialist missions changed to "sections of ground targets (aka buildings) destroyed" and "sectors captured."

 

 

Pretty much everyone agrees with the notion that bomber specialization requirements are utter garbage with only the B-17G, B-32, and RB-17 having any real hope of completing the secondary mission in something resembling a timely manner.

 

I would agree while only adding the A-26B to your list.
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Captain_Underpants53 #6 Posted 07 February 2019 - 10:44 PM

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View PostLeastWeasel, on 07 February 2019 - 03:43 PM, said:

Just started towards grinding specialist on my Do 217M - and wow. Short of plowing it through a cap full of heavily-injured planes, I really don’t know how long 15 kills will take. Even one seeme exceptionally rare.

 

Actually, for some reason, I find that the Do 217M has the best turrets of all the German bombers.  That being said, it still takes several missions to account for enough plane kills.

 

The last time I sat down and did the math it took 3 missions to get one plane kill.  Still far better that some of the other bombers.  Blenny, I'm lookin' at you!


Edited by Captain_Underpants53, 07 February 2019 - 10:48 PM.

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wylleEcoyote #7 Posted 07 February 2019 - 11:08 PM

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View PostCaptain_Underpants53, on 07 February 2019 - 05:44 PM, said:

 

Actually, for some reason, I find that the Do 217M has the best turrets of all the German bombers.  That being said, it still takes several missions to account for enough plane kills.

 

The last time I sat down and did the math it took 3 missions to get one plane kill.  Still far better that some of the other bombers.  Blenny, I'm lookin' at you!

 

I got through the requirement by flying "inside" the large bomber flights that were in the Bomber escort events that coincided witht the release of the tech tree bombers.
Being surrounded by 30 odd turrets went a long way toward my own survival while i was waiting for the bombs to reload..

        


LeastWeasel #8 Posted 07 February 2019 - 11:10 PM

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View PostCaptain_Underpants53, on 07 February 2019 - 05:44 PM, said:

 

Actually, for some reason, I find that the Do 217M has the best turrets of all the German bombers.  That being said, it still takes several missions to account for enough plane kills.

 

The last time I sat down and did the math it took 3 missions to get one plane kill.  Still far better that some of the other bombers.  Blenny, I'm lookin' at you!

 

D’ya run it high, low, or mid? Looking for specific Do 217M advice!



Captain_Underpants53 #9 Posted 08 February 2019 - 12:10 AM

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View PostwylleEcoyote, on 07 February 2019 - 06:08 PM, said:

 

I got through the requirement by flying "inside" the large bomber flights that were in the Bomber escort events that coincided witht the release of the tech tree bombers.
Being surrounded by 30 odd turrets went a long way toward my own survival while i was waiting for the bombs to reload..

 

LOL.  I think I will steal that idea.

 

:playing:


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Captain_Underpants53 #10 Posted 08 February 2019 - 12:12 AM

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View PostLeastWeasel, on 07 February 2019 - 06:10 PM, said:

 

D’ya run it high, low, or mid? Looking for specific Do 217M advice!

 

I am usually in the low yellow or the mid to upper white.  Never the red.  But I have 13 skill points in that gunner.
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Twindwarfs #11 Posted 08 February 2019 - 12:25 AM

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I agree the specialist missions are badly designed. Though personally, I have no issues with rear gun kills, maybe it's because I rarely fly above the optimal altitude, so most of the time I have a lot of enemies trying to hunt me down. Several friends of mine prefer to play safe, at the end, they were forced to fly bombers like GAAs just to finish the specialist mission..

 

There is another problem with the specialist mission in my opinion: the difficulty is so different among different types of planes. I always have my heavy fighter mission completed first, then fighters and multiroles, then bombers and GAAs. I don't think I'm particularly good at any type of planes. I feel capture point missions for bombers and GAAs is more difficult compared to numbers of kills for heavy and light fighters.  



White_Widow18 #12 Posted 08 February 2019 - 02:24 AM

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View PostwylleEcoyote, on 07 February 2019 - 05:08 PM, said:

 

I got through the requirement by flying "inside" the large bomber flights that were in the Bomber escort events that coincided witht the release of the tech tree bombers.
Being surrounded by 30 odd turrets went a long way toward my own survival while i was waiting for the bombs to reload..

 

This.

Exactly this.

Bombers aren't supposed to be individual planes. You want aerial kills? Either have a good wing/team or fly with the bomber flights. The great thing about doing the bomber flights with the lower tier bombers especially is that you don't really move any faster and you can help guarantee the cap by two ways #1 - keeping the players off the bomber flight and #2 - just before it gets there.. burn the boost up and speed bomb targets ahead.

Otherwise... I am going to be honest.. just loop it.. nose up while in turret, hold the boost one and start looping and using the tail guns... I've killed more people with that technique than I care to think about. It -ESPECIALLY- works well in the German Bombers.. Americans require more of a corkscrew to it, but it'll still work if you've got the skills to loop a bomber without stalling it anyway.

As to Russian bombers.... the lowest tier ones are actually pretty easy to get turret kills with it just requires presence of mind and flying low and fast. The mid tier Russian bombers you just gotta learn to use those forward guns to chew something down, then over fly it and shoot it with your tailgun.

 
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legoboy0401 #13 Posted 08 February 2019 - 03:24 AM

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View PostWhite_Widow18, on 07 February 2019 - 06:24 PM, said:

 

This.

Exactly this.

Bombers aren't supposed to be individual planes. You want aerial kills? Either have a good wing/team or fly with the bomber flights. The great thing about doing the bomber flights with the lower tier bombers especially is that you don't really move any faster and you can help guarantee the cap by two ways #1 - keeping the players off the bomber flight and #2 - just before it gets there.. burn the boost up and speed bomb targets ahead.

Otherwise... I am going to be honest.. just loop it.. nose up while in turret, hold the boost one and start looping and using the tail guns... I've killed more people with that technique than I care to think about. It -ESPECIALLY- works well in the German Bombers.. Americans require more of a corkscrew to it, but it'll still work if you've got the skills to loop a bomber without stalling it anyway.

As to Russian bombers.... the lowest tier ones are actually pretty easy to get turret kills with it just requires presence of mind and flying low and fast. The mid tier Russian bombers you just gotta learn to use those forward guns to chew something down, then over fly it and shoot it with your tailgun.

 

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! That's hilarious, I think you just made my- Oh. You're actually serious?

 

Things that do not go together:

 

bikinis and Antarctica

 

vegans and Mount Everest

 

SB and speed

 

AR-2 and speed

 

Also, you are aware that all bombers now have a minimum optimum altitude specifically to prevent them from being difficult to catch at low altitudes, right?

 

Oh, and also, by the way, their tail guns are utter rubbish, with quite possibly the worst turret angles of any bomber currently in the game. Asking anything of them is like asking the devil to be nice, it's never gonna happen.

 


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White_Widow18 #14 Posted 08 February 2019 - 03:55 AM

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*looks at her multiple specialist bombers and the ones she's sold*

Ok.

I've just gotten multiple air kill pips on almost every single bomber in the game... and that "minimum altitude" thing only counts if you're dependent on bomb sights, you can still drop below that or at least I can because I do it regularly. Blind bombing is fun =D

YMMV, but I find only the T5 and T6 Russian bombers to be utter junk.. beyond that.. they all have their quirks but are all quite deadly in good hands.. including against aerial targets assuming you have a proper gunner and pilot build and simply stick to a group mentality and don't try to 1v1 it. It's not who shot the guy the most and did the most damage who gets the kill, its the last bullet to land. Also.. those turret blind spots are simple.. spiral up or spiral down and the open shooting windows are quite useful given what they are.. there's a 3 point pilot skill that will also reduce incoming damage from the guy you're shooting by 25% by doing this.. then there's a 3 point gunner skill that reduces the incoming damage a further 30% plus the improved critical plus burst length plus burst range (Which actually increases the arc of the guns and reduces blind spots hugely. Imperfect, yes.. but few bombers had the best of turret angles. Also.. speed is relative.. no.. neither are exactly speed demons.. but by constantly feathering the boost they become quite bearable in the speed department. Just don't expect super extreme turns out of them and ensure you have plenty of boost left/set aside.

Again, YMMV
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legoboy0401 #15 Posted 08 February 2019 - 05:50 AM

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View PostWhite_Widow18, on 07 February 2019 - 07:55 PM, said:

*looks at her multiple specialist bombers and the ones she's sold*

Ok.

I've just gotten multiple air kill pips on almost every single bomber in the game... and that "minimum altitude" thing only counts if you're dependent on bomb sights, you can still drop below that or at least I can because I do it regularly. Blind bombing is fun =D

YMMV, but I find only the T5 and T6 Russian bombers to be utter junk.. beyond that.. they all have their quirks but are all quite deadly in good hands.. including against aerial targets assuming you have a proper gunner and pilot build and simply stick to a group mentality and don't try to 1v1 it. It's not who shot the guy the most and did the most damage who gets the kill, its the last bullet to land. Also.. those turret blind spots are simple.. spiral up or spiral down and the open shooting windows are quite useful given what they are.. there's a 3 point pilot skill that will also reduce incoming damage from the guy you're shooting by 25% by doing this.. then there's a 3 point gunner skill that reduces the incoming damage a further 30% plus the improved critical plus burst length plus burst range (Which actually increases the arc of the guns and reduces blind spots hugely. Imperfect, yes.. but few bombers had the best of turret angles. Also.. speed is relative.. no.. neither are exactly speed demons.. but by constantly feathering the boost they become quite bearable in the speed department. Just don't expect super extreme turns out of them and ensure you have plenty of boost left/set aside.

Again, YMMV

 

That actually would be a no. The minimum altitude thing came in a few patches ago, to nerf high-level bombers that were being run very low.

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White_Widow18 #16 Posted 08 February 2019 - 08:55 AM

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I can tell you must not -actually- play bombers and/or just didn't understand what the nerf actually did.. I'll give the benefit of the doubt and say the latter though, because I literally just went down to sub 200 feet on three different bombers.. guess what... Bombs still dropped and still blew things up.

Sorry you're factually incorrect.

It's not like I, again, have hundreds of hours flying bombers or anything.

o7

Edited by White_Widow18, 08 February 2019 - 08:56 AM.

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CorvusCorvax #17 Posted 08 February 2019 - 05:37 PM

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View PostWhite_Widow18, on 08 February 2019 - 08:55 AM, said:

I can tell you must not -actually- play bombers and/or just didn't understand what the nerf actually did.. I'll give the benefit of the doubt and say the latter though, because I literally just went down to sub 200 feet on three different bombers.. guess what... Bombs still dropped and still blew things up.

Sorry you're factually incorrect.

It's not like I, again, have hundreds of hours flying bombers or anything.

o7

I fly bombers.  Yes, the low-altitude performance has been nerfed.  You used to be able to fly an RB-17 within 200m of the ground at over 800kph.  Not now.  No more low-level passes where you are essentially immune from interception.   Yes, bombs still drop, and targets still blow up.  But your gunners aren't getting kills from 1200m out while you one-pass flip a mining plant at 200m and 820kph.



legoboy0401 #18 Posted 08 February 2019 - 09:02 PM

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View PostWhite_Widow18, on 08 February 2019 - 12:55 AM, said:

I can tell you must not -actually- play bombers and/or just didn't understand what the nerf actually did.. I'll give the benefit of the doubt and say the latter though, because I literally just went down to sub 200 feet on three different bombers.. guess what... Bombs still dropped and still blew things up.

Sorry you're factually incorrect.

It's not like I, again, have hundreds of hours flying bombers or anything.

o7

 

Now who is "factually incorrect?"

 

 

Hmm, I wonder who it could be...

 

Spoiler

 

Perhaps you didn't look too closely at the patch notes for that patch?

 

 

It's okay, we all make mistakes.

 

I make plenty of mistakes myself, both in real life and in game, so it's not like I'm trying to be(or actually being) superior to you, I just don't like being called "factually incorrect" when I'm clearly not.

 

But while I understand why they majorly nerfed the speed of bombers at super-low altitudes(it was stupid, OP, and encroached WAY too much on GAA playstyles in a way that WG never intended Bombers to), I don't understand why they kept the turret kill requirement, when they clearly want most bombers to play as high-level(and for a few with heavy defenses, medium-level) strategic bombers, instead of low altitude tactical bombers, in a way that avoids enemy planes almost all together(high-level), or to a considerable degree(medium-level).

 

 


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White_Widow18 #19 Posted 08 February 2019 - 09:03 PM

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View PostCorvusCorvax, on 08 February 2019 - 11:37 AM, said:

I fly bombers.  Yes, the low-altitude performance has been nerfed.  You used to be able to fly an RB-17 within 200m of the ground at over 800kph.  Not now.  No more low-level passes where you are essentially immune from interception.   Yes, bombs still drop, and targets still blow up.  But your gunners aren't getting kills from 1200m out while you one-pass flip a mining plant at 200m and 820kph.

 

I'd beg to differ. I was doing just that last night with both the RB and the B-32.

I also regularly have all of my sights bug out and don't have any so I'm used to blind bombing while in turret mode because what's the point of switching to another mode when I have no target reticule and have all my flight surfaces keybound so I don't need a joystick or mouse to fly. I realize there was a nerf, but either my builds are somehow magically keeping me from being completely hosed by it or I guess I've got the fast twitch on dropping the bombs exactly perfect. Either way, I'm still going to disagree. The gunner nerf has been a bigger deal than the bomb nerf as far as I'm concerned and even that hasn't stopped me.. just slowed down my attrition rate against light fighters and such. 

This is, again, why I caveated the entire thing I'd said with "YMMV" because it does. Your experience is different than mine and that's alright.. but I'm not going to be told you "can't" bomb that low  (as I was by someone else)  when provably you can. To be honest while I've experimented wwith the style even before the nerf I never quite liked it because it just felt wrong anyway, but its still workable now.

I get it, it's not as OP as it was.. that doesn't mean its unworkable or that you can't single pass flip a cap still using that method, it's just no longer as easy or high of a reward vs. risk.
 
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White_Widow18 #20 Posted 08 February 2019 - 09:04 PM

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View Postlegoboy0401, on 08 February 2019 - 03:02 PM, said:

 

Now who is "factually incorrect?"

 

 

Hmm, I wonder who it could be...

 

Spoiler

 

Perhaps you didn't look too closely at the patch notes for that patch?

 

 

It's okay, we all make mistakes.

 

I make plenty of mistakes myself, both in real life and in game, so it's not like I'm trying to be(or actually being) superior to you, I just don't like being called "factually incorrect" when I'm clearly not.

 

But while I understand why they majorly nerfed the speed of bombers at super-low altitudes(it was stupid, OP, and encroached WAY too much on GAA playstyles in a way that WG never intended Bombers to), I don't understand why they kept the turret kill requirement, when they clearly want most bombers to play as high-level(and for a few with heavy defenses, medium-level) strategic bombers, instead of low altitude tactical bombers, in a way that avoids enemy planes almost all together(high-level), or to a considerable degree(medium-level).

 

 


Ok. I'm not going to keep arguing with you. I've literally flown the bomber that low last night and blew the snot out of multiple caps.

Good luck with your "opinion".


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