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Do-335 Buffed?


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StoptheViolins #1 Posted 07 January 2019 - 07:30 PM

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If I recall when it was released it was the worst T8 heavy in-game but now it has better stats than the 262.  Aside from the quad 30mm's DPS that is... Now it has 30kph faster cruise speed, longer boost, and more maneuverable than the XF5U.  It also sports the 1000m ranged 30mm...

 

Release day it was slower, less maneuverable, and all around mediocre at least as of two weeks ago it's the best T8 heavy.



CorvusCorvax #2 Posted 07 January 2019 - 07:58 PM

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Hmmm, that's curious.  And here I thought that I was doing well because I finally figured out how to play it.  I had been treating it like a very large Me-209 that just happens to carry a metric ton of bombs.

 

I know for a solid fact that the Pancake can still turn inside it, because a human did exactly that to me this last weekend.  I think that even with the nerfs, the Pancake stats are written incorrectly.

 

As a B-32 or RB-17 killer, there is no better aircraft short of T9.  Low yoyo an RB-17, and you'll never be in the rear gun cone.  The fight will be over so fast...



comtedumas #3 Posted 07 January 2019 - 08:33 PM

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I never thought it was bad, I liked it from the beginning.  It’s one of the few planes that can climb away from enemy planes.  

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no_habla_ingles #4 Posted 07 January 2019 - 08:44 PM

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LMG #5 Posted 07 January 2019 - 09:56 PM

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I don't think it was buffed? I might be wrong, but I didn't see anything in the patch notes, and I'm sure it always had the sniper 30


This is my IL-2 (t). There are many like it, but this one is mine. :child:

CorvusCorvax #6 Posted 07 January 2019 - 10:44 PM

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View PostLMG, on 07 January 2019 - 09:56 PM, said:

 I'm sure it always had the sniper 30

Yup, it has.  But it is more effective now against bombers.



GonerNL #7 Posted 08 January 2019 - 12:28 PM

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View PostStoptheViolins, on 07 January 2019 - 08:30 PM, said:

It also sports the 1000m ranged 30mm...

 

Is that more or less the same as the top gun on the Me-209A ?? Mk-103(H) ...

Just researched it, but I doubt if I ever will purchase it. The Mk-108(H) has more DPS, higher (4x) ROF and only lower range ... 

Out of curiosity ; what happens when/if I get specialist on it and have not purchased the top gun by then ? Empty slot or the (lesser?) gun that I did purchase ?


Edited by GonerNL, 08 January 2019 - 12:32 PM.

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trikke #8 Posted 08 January 2019 - 12:54 PM

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try them both for a while, compare notes

 

i'll bet that you'll want to keep the 103s

 

i'm also interested to know if i'm forced to use the 108s if i specialize it?


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Grantwhy #9 Posted 08 January 2019 - 01:04 PM

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View PostCorvusCorvax, on 08 January 2019 - 08:44 AM, said:

Yup, it has.  But it is more effective now against bombers.

 

hmmm ..... Bombers gunners have had a recent nerf, could that be making the the Do-335 'feel' better vs bombers?

GonerNL #10 Posted 08 January 2019 - 01:17 PM

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View Posttrikke, on 08 January 2019 - 01:54 PM, said:

i'll bet that you'll want to keep the 103s

 

i'm also interested to know if i'm forced to use the 108s if i specialize it?

 

I doubt it ... the 103's have a ROF of only 60 !! 108's have 240 !

 

You will normally get the top gun when specialized, so that would be 103's in the case of the Me-209A. But I would like to keep the 108's.

 

 


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SpiritFoxMY #11 Posted 08 January 2019 - 01:52 PM

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View PostStoptheViolins, on 08 January 2019 - 03:30 AM, said:

If I recall when it was released it was the worst T8 heavy in-game but now it has better stats than the 262.  Aside from the quad 30mm's DPS that is... Now it has 30kph faster cruise speed, longer boost, and more maneuverable than the XF5U.  It also sports the 1000m ranged 30mm...

 

Release day it was slower, less maneuverable, and all around mediocre at least as of two weeks ago it's the best T8 heavy.

 

Its because the XF5U has been nerfed. The Do335 was always an excellent heavy and I've had great success in mine from day one, even against unnerfed Pancakes (the key was always the Pfeil's superior roll rate making it easy to aim, its dive speed which was equal to the 262 and some 150kph faster than the XF5U, and its ordnance which is superior to that of the equal tier German GAA) , but now with the nerfs to bomber turret range and Pancake performance, its become even more dominant.

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wylleEcoyote #12 Posted 08 January 2019 - 04:38 PM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 08 January 2019 - 08:52 AM, said:

 

The Do335 was always an excellent heavy and I've had great success in mine from day one, and its ordnance which is superior to that of the equal tier German GAA) , but now with the nerfs to bomber turret range and Pancake performance, its become even more dominant.

 


That ordinance is not just superior it is the exact same ordinance load on the german Tier 10 GAA. and accurate at delivering them enough that strengthened Hardpoints for very quick reloads on a very quick airplane. I love using it to over watch other GAA. 
either i knock down AA guns with one hit or  soften up bigger targets just prior to the GAA strike.
And then i just orbit around waiting for the enemy GAA to show up
so i can finish out the cap by shooting him down or finishing off ground targets out from under him from the other side of the zone :trollface:
Added bonus: when the GAA shows up with a high alt bomber i can take them out too.
 
THat gun though ...
In my opinion, the gun is bit underwhelming.
Sure the range is amazing but two 15mm hmg's and one 30mm cannon is a far cry from the plethora of quad 20's and 30's that are shooting around me. 
I still love flying that plane though.

Fair warning. My success rate at speculative guesswork is very hit or miss. Usually I start on the right track and then a make a weird left turn and get lost in the weeds ... 
And yet it doesn't stop me from speculation.
Specialist Planes i have:
USA: XP-31, F1C-2, Model 81A-1, P-40, F4F, P-38F, P-39N-1, P-47B, P-38J, XF15C, XP-58  USSR: Tu-1  UK: DH.100 F1. Japan: not even once.
Germany: Fw 56, Hs 123, Ha 137, He 112, Bf 109 B, Bf 110 C-6, Do 17 Z, Bf 109 E, Bf 109 E-3, Ju 87 G, Fw 190 A-5, Me 410, Do 217 M, Me 265, Me209 A, Do 335 A-1, Me 1099 B-2


CorvusCorvax #13 Posted 08 January 2019 - 05:45 PM

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View PostwylleEcoyote, on 08 January 2019 - 04:38 PM, said:

 


That ordinance is not just superior it is the exact same ordinance load on the german Tier 10 GAA. and accurate at delivering them enough that strengthened Hardpoints for very quick reloads on a very quick airplane. I love using it to over watch other GAA. 
either i knock down AA guns with one hit or  soften up bigger targets just prior to the GAA strike.
And then i just orbit around waiting for the enemy GAA to show up
so i can finish out the cap by shooting him down or finishing off ground targets out from under him from the other side of the zone :trollface:
Added bonus: when the GAA shows up with a high alt bomber i can take them out too.
 
THat gun though ...
In my opinion, the gun is bit underwhelming.
Sure the range is amazing but two 15mm hmg's and one 30mm cannon is a far cry from the plethora of quad 20's and 30's that are shooting around me. 
I still love flying that plane though.

All of this.  And, in addition, if you need to get out of Dodge, right now, you can.  I hadn't considered strengthened hardpoints.  But fast reload would be nice if you're using it as a fast GAA.  A pair of these guys set up for ground attack would own a map.  BTW, the Me-262 is a pretty good wild weasel aircraft.



wylleEcoyote #14 Posted 08 January 2019 - 07:20 PM

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View PostCorvusCorvax, on 08 January 2019 - 12:45 PM, said:

All of this.  And, in addition, if you need to get out of Dodge, right now, you can.  I hadn't considered strengthened hardpoints.  But fast reload would be nice if you're using it as a fast GAA.  A pair of these guys set up for ground attack would own a map.  BTW, the Me-262 is a pretty good wild weasel aircraft.

 

I didnt start out that way. And then i got a 10 token mission that needed ground targets to get destroyed.

And all i have for tier 8+ is the Do 335 and the XP-58.
it had a bomb sight because i unlocked the option but didnt want to screw with the Airspeed any more than i had to just carrying ordinance.
Eventually I realized that as close to the ground as i get, i dont really need a sight.
Spoiler


So why not  faster reload?
I dont like the drag. but i do like more bombs...

Spoiler



I now have more ground kills than air kills on that plane according to the marks on the tail ...  I still mount Lightweight wings and frame for turning and stuff so its not a full on WW build out.
But maybe if i get around to actually stockpiling equipment i might trick it out with:
polished skin for good unboosted dives
(keeping that boost for later when you NEED it)
maybe a booster instead of an uptuned engine, maybe not.
 

Spoiler



And every bit of ordinance kit nerfs reload time to to varying degrees except the Hardpoints and they really mess with Airspeed.
Aerodynamic Pylons might seem the way to go; but the reload speed on the Arrow at 2 minutes is not its best feature.
Some games go so fast that you would only get time for 2 drops.

Spoiler


A well co-ordinated flight however would be bringing the effective payload of a tier 8 equivalent of the Do 217.
Accurately placed, it should flip a cap.

And both of them focus firing their aerial targets takes care of the lacking DPM in the forward guns.
It means shooting down reds quickly to finish a cap/prevent its flipping to red  is now a thing for this plane.


Edited by wylleEcoyote, 08 January 2019 - 08:25 PM.

Fair warning. My success rate at speculative guesswork is very hit or miss. Usually I start on the right track and then a make a weird left turn and get lost in the weeds ... 
And yet it doesn't stop me from speculation.
Specialist Planes i have:
USA: XP-31, F1C-2, Model 81A-1, P-40, F4F, P-38F, P-39N-1, P-47B, P-38J, XF15C, XP-58  USSR: Tu-1  UK: DH.100 F1. Japan: not even once.
Germany: Fw 56, Hs 123, Ha 137, He 112, Bf 109 B, Bf 110 C-6, Do 17 Z, Bf 109 E, Bf 109 E-3, Ju 87 G, Fw 190 A-5, Me 410, Do 217 M, Me 265, Me209 A, Do 335 A-1, Me 1099 B-2


CorvusCorvax #15 Posted 08 January 2019 - 08:21 PM

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View PostwylleEcoyote, on 08 January 2019 - 07:20 PM, said:

 

I didnt start out that way. And then i got a 10 token mission that needed ground targets to get destroyed.

And all i have for tier 8+ is the Do 335 and the XP-58.
it had a bomb sight because why not?
and also realized that when i am as close to ground as i get i dont really need a sight
Spoiler

So why not  faster reload?
Did not care for the drag but its a relatively small hit to airspeed.

I now have more ground kills than air kills on that plane according to the marks on the tail ...  I still mount Lightweight wings and frame for turning and stuff so its not a full on WW build out.
But maybe if i get around to actually stockpiling equipment i might trick it out with polished skin for dives and a maybe a booster instead of an uptuned engine so i can go from circling at 1 km to intercept the occasional RB-17/B-32 trying to flip my cap from the stratosphere ...

I like it.  We should flight up to test my theory about owning the battle.  I'll see how much the faster reload will cost me in speed.  I fly it as a cosmic sniper and bomber-killer.  It's awesome to drop on bombers from above, LOL .



wylleEcoyote #16 Posted 08 January 2019 - 10:56 PM

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if your flying THAT high you may want to use the bomb sight.  Maxed out for accuracy it reduces the dispersion of the bombs by 50%
at the cost of a 2 minute 20 second reload.  Which translates to flying 50% higher and still hitting what you aim for.
In theory that could translate to a high speed attack run that releases your bombs far enough from the short range AAA that you never get close enough for them to shoot back ...

Ultimate Hardpoints eventually settle down to a 5.4% nerf to Cruise speed and Max Speed w/Boost activated.
Which just so happens to almost cancel out half the benefit from an Ultimate  Engine  and  Ultimate Booster respectively.
Hard points dont mess with acceleration. Just top speeds; boosted and otherwise.
Spoiler


And for all that pain you get a 1 minute 22 second reload time (if you get the bonus 10% reload) instead of a flat 2 minutes.

Also: Ultimate Polished Skin grants a 10% Cruise Buff which is very useful in this. It also grants +10% acceleration in a dive which the Hardpoints doesn't effect.

How it worked out for myself:
Leaving the bombs in place but removing the (almost) fully calibrated Hardpoints gave me a the following:
Reload Time 120 sec
Cruise Speed 639 kph
Boost Speed 760 kph
Dive speed 950 Kph

Putting the Hardpoints back on and:
Reload time 96 sec
Cruise Speed 611 kph
Boost Speed  725 kph
Dive speed  950 kph (still) 

With this in place it seems that the best way to do this dedicated WW build would be to capitalize on the untouched max dive speed
and go all in on the Boom + Zoom .

Go into a hard dive to build up speed for your initial attack run. level off around 500m
  drop bombs. 
keep velocity as you either continue to next zone or take a wide circle back for 1-2 gun passes on targets of oppourtunity
Low health Buildings, then incoming Aircraft. 
be prepared to boost away as needed.

using a combination of:
Polished skin and Hard points each at similar calibration and enhancement levels.
Gunsight and Gas operated action with an emphasis on fire starting for shooting buildings mostly.
(gun dpm is crapbut buildings dont have fire extinguishers)
I can't lie though. I dont care who you are. Setting fire to an RB17 from 1km away is funny.

If you have no intention of making a habit of shooting ground targets beyond AA guns and the occasional small building,
a critical build with Gunsight + Long Gun barrels will get you that crazy sniper action. The reduced burst duration is not a difficulty if your careful with your shooting.  
If you want the option to do both use reinforced Bolt Carriers. Your accuracy takes a hit but your overall DPM get a boost across the board.
Marksman would be important with this choice. 
 
And an Uptuned Engine for steady acceleration to a somewhat reduced top speed (thanks Hardpoints :sceptic:. )
Useful for prolonged aerial engagement against things with bad energy retention (lots of vertical loops instead of horizontal turns)
Which would be about the only turn fight you could regularly win. For the most part its to be just hard enough to hit that your wingman has time to clear your six.
And it also helps with getting to various places on the map in a timely manner.

Or  a HighSpeed Gas Turbine that trades a slower over all cruise speed (which can still be useful against GAA ) 
limiting your air to air to whatever pilot is 800+ m in front of you and not paying attention...
for a 24 second  burst of speed on the high side of 750 kph.
for intercepting anything with two or more engines at ... well any altitude  really.
And just outrunning MR and LF at low altitude

Fair warning. My success rate at speculative guesswork is very hit or miss. Usually I start on the right track and then a make a weird left turn and get lost in the weeds ... 
And yet it doesn't stop me from speculation.
Specialist Planes i have:
USA: XP-31, F1C-2, Model 81A-1, P-40, F4F, P-38F, P-39N-1, P-47B, P-38J, XF15C, XP-58  USSR: Tu-1  UK: DH.100 F1. Japan: not even once.
Germany: Fw 56, Hs 123, Ha 137, He 112, Bf 109 B, Bf 110 C-6, Do 17 Z, Bf 109 E, Bf 109 E-3, Ju 87 G, Fw 190 A-5, Me 410, Do 217 M, Me 265, Me209 A, Do 335 A-1, Me 1099 B-2


trikke #17 Posted 09 January 2019 - 03:08 AM

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View PostwylleEcoyote, on 08 January 2019 - 05:56 PM, said:

(ten tons of great info)

 

omg...  this is why i struggle     i run the same damn build on 90% of my planes


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SpiritFoxMY #18 Posted 09 January 2019 - 03:12 AM

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My Pfeil is fully Specialised with Ultimate equipment - gunsight, lwf, turbine, goa and racks


Edited by SpiritFoxMY, 09 January 2019 - 03:19 AM.

***

But a truce to this mournful story

For death is a distant friend

So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


CorvusCorvax #19 Posted 09 January 2019 - 03:33 AM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 09 January 2019 - 03:12 AM, said:

My Pfeil is fully Specialised with Ultimate equipment - gunsight, lwf, turbine, goa and racks

 

Nice chatter, you guys...

wylleEcoyote #20 Posted 11 January 2019 - 10:16 PM

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Dude!  that is some sweet sexy Dornier action.


Fair warning. My success rate at speculative guesswork is very hit or miss. Usually I start on the right track and then a make a weird left turn and get lost in the weeds ... 
And yet it doesn't stop me from speculation.
Specialist Planes i have:
USA: XP-31, F1C-2, Model 81A-1, P-40, F4F, P-38F, P-39N-1, P-47B, P-38J, XF15C, XP-58  USSR: Tu-1  UK: DH.100 F1. Japan: not even once.
Germany: Fw 56, Hs 123, Ha 137, He 112, Bf 109 B, Bf 110 C-6, Do 17 Z, Bf 109 E, Bf 109 E-3, Ju 87 G, Fw 190 A-5, Me 410, Do 217 M, Me 265, Me209 A, Do 335 A-1, Me 1099 B-2





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