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Are the game rigged or predetermined?

MM rigged predetermined bots

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Longsite #1 Posted 06 January 2019 - 07:34 PM

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Hello to the WG community


Blindfold and to all who visit this forum,  I'm a  person  who believes in numbers and what I can understand.  I just finished a battle where I question if the game is rigged against players and in favor of some players for some reason unknow to me or us.  In looking at the battle, I broke things down to Kills, Asst Kill, Ground Targets Destroyed and Sectors Captured to see and understand why my team lost.  In the chart below I broke everything down as best as I could. 


Looking at the numbers it look like the game was rigged.  We lost (Defeated) 647 : 800 because the enemy took control of the area of operation, but we lead most of the battle except for the last 40 seconds of the battle.  There score for some reason rose from 200 points below ours to pass my team for the win in about 40 seconds.  Blindfold please help me and my team to shed light on why we lost..... 


From my point it looked rigged, but I might be wrong so if U can please break my numbers down so all may see that I'm wrong.  There were 6 humans one each team, on my team were 2 individuals with 2000+ battles and the rest of the team had 600 battles or less, on the other team it had one individual with 2000+ battle and the rest of the team with 600 battles or less.


Am I correct in believing that U only get credit for a kill if U put the last round into the enemy and only one person will get the kill. Also the same goes for the destruction of ground targets. As U can see from my chart that my team had 33 kills over the other team 29 kills, 32 Assit Kills over theirs 21 Assit Kills, 20 Ground Targets Destroyed over the enemy 18 Ground Targets Destroyed and 19 Sectors Captures over there 18 Sectors Captured.  So I'm confused why we lost and lost so bad, when we out scored the enemy in every category that covers how to win.

 

their team stats
                  kills                  assit kills                ground targets destroyed                 sectors captured
p28j            5                         1                                        1                                                      2
f4f                2                         1                                        4                                                     2
Hs 129       0                          0                                       6                                                      2
yak-9          4                          1                                       0                                                      2
iL-2(t)          3                          5                                       2                                                      2
xp-44          3                          1                                       0                                                      1
pe-2            0                          1                                       3                                                      0
yak-7           2                          1                                      0                                                       1
mig-3           2                          1                                      0                                                       2
Mosquito     1                          4                                      0                                                       0
p-47b           0                          3                                      2                                                       2
 
total             29                         21                                    18                                                     18
 
my team stats
spit V           9                         6                                       2                                                       3
b-17g          0                         2                                       9                                                       3
p-38j            3                        1                                        2                                                       3
hs-129b       2                        3                                       4                                                       3
a6m2           6                         6                                       0                                                       2
p-40 M105  4                         1                                       0                                                       1
sbf-110e      2                         4                                       0                                                       0
yak-9            3                         1                                       0                                                       2
hs-129b      0                          4                                       1                                                       0
yak-7           1                          1                                       0                                                       0
f4f                 2                          3                                       0                                                       1
p-47b           1                          0                                       2                                                       1
 
total              33                         32                                   20                                                     19
 
Was the games predetermined?  I don't know, was it rigged, I'm unsure but I'm bias because I like to win. Does anyone have an answer please speak your mind, if U can help Blindfold, lets hear it.....
 
Good luck to all that visit, see U in the skies.....  
Longsite
 
 

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Edited by Longsite, 07 January 2019 - 12:01 AM.


Captain_Underpants53 #2 Posted 06 January 2019 - 09:28 PM

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RNG?  Situational positioning?  Who knows?  I sure don't understand it.

 

:unsure:


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sandtiger #3 Posted 06 January 2019 - 09:39 PM

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rigged. ... Rigged is defined as something in the proper order for use, or is something that is fixed in a dishonest way to guarantee a desired outcome. A boat that is ready to sail is an example of a boat that is rigged. A contest where the winner is predetermined beforehand is an example of a contest that isrigged.

with this said i do not think the game is rigged

i think there are problems with there match make that stacks one side

more heavily to try an balance the game  but  there are some error that happen in game because of this

like there are some bot that work really well they are ace bots... there are some that fly like a new person play the game ..

there are hunter bots because i have seen them  ... where i had a bot fly  after my ga the hole game fire rockets at me  no mater how many time i killed this bot

it would come back ..no mater where i went it was there .. so i do not think  the game is rigged or has a predetermined out come ..it can be stack one way or other.. from mm failing to find a good match... like any time the game says there i no suitable opponent   at this time or most people are play at tier what ever it is... you are more then likely to find your self in stacked card where one team will  whip the other one out fast .. because mm failed to be able to make  a good match in the time that it has to make a match .

 

there is a thing i watch on wot where it show how mm  works it is  almost the same here

it has x seconds to find planes that fit a list of balance requirements  '

then when it can not  do that it start look for for teams that well work

when it can not do that it well stat looking for one tier up or down that well work

after that it well add in bots to fill spots selecting skill level of the bots 

like if it can find one tier ten player and two tier nine s it well  put them in a match with the bots  be balanced

to try and make the game fair it dose not always work and i think this is where the one sided match come from

i not 100% sure how world of world of war planes  dose it because i can not find a this is how this works like they have

for world of tanks ... with there world of tanks game they made a few videos about how parts of the game mechanics

work wowp as far as i know ..i can not find any videos for how the mechanics for there mm  or how it works but i have 

read a few patch notes that  tells how it works and it very close to how i think all 3 of there games work 

 

so i would have to say this game is not rigged  it can be stacked wrong or it can make bad match

because of the people all play  different tiers at different times it may have problems make good match

these can all make the game feel  rigged but it is not .. and the word rigged is thrown about in all gaming circle

way to easy ... then people start think  ooo i did bad it must be rigged .. maybe it was just a bad stacked card with all the ace players or ace bots on one  team

 

there are also bugs/error that well make this game feel rigged but the are just errors  like seeing  your guns hit with no  damage... from every thing i been reading that is an error that has been a round for a long time  .. sorry i had some time to read a lot about the game of late have not been play much because i been to angry to have fun

so i spent time try to find so answers to some of the many things i see in game ... and it help i have a new  out look on the game ..


Edited by sandtiger, 06 January 2019 - 09:51 PM.


Longsite #4 Posted 06 January 2019 - 11:55 PM

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Hey Blindfold

    Just finished playing my next battle after posting this Post.  The team that I was on lost the battle.  Funny, we had 26 kills to their 21 kills, we captured 20 sectors to their 13 but they had more targets destroyed, 34 to our 28. We scored more personal points then they did and we lost 689 : 800 (Defeat) plus we were even in score up until the last minute or so and their score just leaped off the score board. What am I missing, what is necessary to win and how do someone score in this game to win....

 

A lot of individual have the question if the game is predetermined or rigged or just flawed, I believe U can clear up any misconception that I may have by giving us a short briefing about what it takes to win in this game or why this is acceptable.  Thanks for taking the time to help us and may all of U guys have clear skies and your aim stays straight.

 

Longsite

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Edited by Longsite, 07 January 2019 - 12:02 AM.


sandtiger #5 Posted 07 January 2019 - 01:10 AM

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 base are  what win in this game not personal score

not how many plane s  you kill or take down  you can shot bomber squads the hole match rack up all kinds of kill and personal points  

it  who has more  base for longer   ...you can kill planes and ground targets all day it well not mater if you do not take the base

 

it base on who has the most base ever base give you 3 points ever 5 seconds this moves  the bar .. planes killed do not effect the bar your personal score just show you how much work you did vs  your team ... but in this game you where in ...was there and Mining plants ? because that base well drop 80 to the bar ever  two min  plus 3 every 5 secound ... 80 point in game it  show up as a white strip and then it well push the bar up 80point  it well happen  in less the a secound so it is easy to miss 

if there is two plans the that is 160 to the bar ever two minutes  and 6 points ever 5 seconds..  if they cap them at the same time  it can  is of set on the drop... that can push a team from  win to losing if they let red team keep the plant ... but i was not in your game and i have no clue what  map you where on or what the enemy team had vs your team it is a game of  math to get the bar to move if you have 3  base that 9 points ever five secound .... if you have all the base you stop the red team ability to get points to the bar so any time one team has all the base of any number there scoring on the bar and your team is not this could be what happened or you may have run in to  a game bug/error

 

also a lot of people miss the bump the Mining plant gives ... but if you hit alt you can see when the next bomber squad well show when the next rocket while go and when the next mine plane drop of 80 well be but only if you hit your alt but there well be a time under the base icon that show the time ticking down but from the first caped base the timer to the to the base point drop starts it goes ever 5 secound that the base  in a teams hand so if let say they take a garrison and the take the air base and a garrison you are get 3 points they are get 6 ever 5 seconds of the game  and he who has the most base the longest time is the one that wins  it is simple math  you can kill all day and still lose if you do not have the base your score no points to the bar

 

i was just in a game where i only score 9,000 points and  the other guy on the red team did 13 k

his bot out scored my bot but i was in my bomber and i had more base for longer then he did i too ever base i could i won he lost but if i look at the combat score i would have thought i should have lost but i know it is only base on who has the most tick from the base points that win  s you can sit over an air base an kill every plane  but if the other team takes more base and has one play that stay alive you well lose  end of story ... o hope this help

but i to would be interested in what blindfold has to say

 

 

 



sandtiger #6 Posted 07 January 2019 - 01:13 AM

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i almost forgot hi longsite  hope your doing good

and good luck in the sky



GonerNL #7 Posted 07 January 2019 - 12:46 PM

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View PostLongsite, on 06 January 2019 - 08:34 PM, said:

We lost (Defeated) 647 : 800 because the enemy took control of the area of operation, but we lead most of the battle except for the last 40 seconds of the battle.  There score for some reason rose from 200 points below ours to pass my team for the win in about 40 seconds.  

 

Sounds like a case of 'air superiority' ...

It's ridiculous how you then lose a game you're winning for 4 minutes, suddenly lose in under a minute !! I understand you get extra points for that, but right it's just plain wrong.

 


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Perrigrino #8 Posted 07 January 2019 - 02:05 PM

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from else where,

 

Although I don't think game is rigged or battles fixed, it is flawed, nor could it be perfect. It's the direction of the changes, when they happen. In any MM such as this there are inherent imbalances/systemic biases, that create surprise and frustration. But when imbalances are introduced that push the scales heavily in one direction, such as Specialization, or as I have recently discovered, with the advent of Christmas and all the goodies- got a lot of GOLD AMMO... and Holy Mother of Christmas, do they make a HUGE difference.

 

So, at the moment I have to ask myself, to what end/motive/rationale would WG create such obvious imbalance in the way vehicles behave and damage other vehicles, while trying to set up matches between players, who are in all sorts of vehicles of varying qualities and strengths with the aim of balance?

 

Kinda…. odd. Random, chaotic, but at times, unexpectedly challenging, frustrating and rewarding. Some of the matches are literally impossible, and there is the rare opportunity to overcome incredible odds, which, when happens is awesome. There "seems" to be alot of attention on the issue of MM balance and the resultant battle matches that are setup. Again, there "seems" like alot of frustration voiced. These issues are not only felt here but in Ships, Tanks, and numerous other games.

 

Frustation abounds, and often, out of sheer frustration, people spend money. They are provided with incentives to "do better" or cheat.  Specialization, is in a way, cheating. Gold ammo is another way of cheating. But in this game cheating is normalized. It has become the rule. 

 

See, we have to think about what we expect in a fair match- and that is part of the problem as well. From a cultural point of view, NA expect opponents on teams to be as evenly trained and matched as possible, so that one team emerges a winner. One is "better" by virtue of skill, training, intelligence, plan, strategic execution and other internal "human" variables- attributes, or at least some of the thinking goes. One of the reasons Soccer is such a beautiful game. Two teams and a ball. No additional armour, weapons. Makes for an interesting contest, based primarily on skill. The sport of Car racing on the other hand uses external attributes as well to try to gain advantage, so winners technical know-how, is given artistic license and judged accordingly. A lot of consideration then goes into engine, chassis, body, tires, suspension, steering, etc, in order to "tweek" performance. Online E-Sports, use no personal physical contact to test skill but, among other things mental prowess stands out as one of the primordial qualities required for survival. Then there's the pure love of twinning power and technology. Consider ROBOT wars, still popular, that has specific categories for Robot Tier and Class. Most are of a unique Type, but not two alike. The important thing here is that each robot explores the range of possibilities for crushing, chopping, grinding, bashing,...well you get the drift. So the external attributes are modified (manipulated) within broad parameters, which demonstrates ingenuity, as well as leading to balance problems for pairing in a match. War is not sport, (I know, aside from the obvious, kinda weird saying that here...) But within the context of a game, the TOOLS of WAR are mythologised and sold. WE play, because we agreed to the terms, and buy into the idea of playing with the tools and ideas of human destruction and having fun, or at least trying too.

 

The point in war is to have biggest, meanest weapon, and either use it, threaten to use, or pose a threat, to gain and maintain a balance of power. Here in fantasy land, we use war as context for a CONTEST of FUN. And since it's suppose to be a "virtual" CONTEST, sometimes advertised as a contest between two varying TYPES of aircraft and sometimes as team sport, players are encouraged to play, because it's FUN!. Unlike Chess, where each side has identical pieces of different Type and Class,  here we have Tiers- which is a leap in power, ability, etc., and then add to that every Player can "tweeK" the strengths/weaknesses, to adjust to their abilities, within a broad range of parameters- to get the biggest hammer! The strongest steel! 

 

When the external attributes, which are in themselves flawed are configure in such a way that they create systemic bias, even the optics of imbalance, that's when emotions get flared up. And it's human nature to cry unfair- even in times of war. For a game about war, kinda ironic that we complain that it's not fair. But then it's suppose to be a "game" and not actual war.

 

And WG has emphasised player de-skilling of the game, while increasing the material attributes of individual player vehicles- the ones that play/pay/grind the most.

 

Can something be done to create "better" balance- short answer, yes. Just depends on how "better" is defined. - focus on that!


Edited by Perrigrino, 14 January 2019 - 02:21 PM.


Perrigrino #9 Posted 07 January 2019 - 02:37 PM

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also,

 

Here's a couple thoughts,

  1. how about Specialization for everyone- NO Grinding required. 
  2.  No More Tears. Just Type n Class. Battle opponents at the same level and in the same vehicles and if wait too long make it Co-Op.

 

Couple starting points to even things up a bit. Once the free gold ammo runs out won't be buying anymore, but what a difference!

 

I get it, the money for WG has to come from somewhere.... Interesting that games such as Fortnite make money on things that have everything to do with appearance- Skins, emotes etc..., and that anyone can access gold weaponry with in-game credits/actions.



sandtiger #10 Posted 07 January 2019 - 10:37 PM

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bye the way make sure you keep track of your gold ammo... so it  dose not try to auto resupply or it well take gold from you that you have made in the game or by pay for it  with real money because when it is all gone it well cost you gold to replace it just a head up i found out the hard way a while back when i load it on a plane and for got i had it on it    

GonerNL #11 Posted 08 January 2019 - 03:22 PM

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View Postsandtiger, on 07 January 2019 - 11:37 PM, said:

bye the way make sure you keep track of your gold ammo... 

 

I never use gold ammo ... gives you an unfair advantage IMHO.

But there are people using it, you know when someone hits you and hardly does damage, but your plane is immediately on fire.


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Perrigrino #12 Posted 08 January 2019 - 08:38 PM

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View PostGonerNL, on 08 January 2019 - 03:22 PM, said:

 

I never use gold ammo ... gives you an unfair advantage IMHO.

But there are people using it, you know when someone hits you and hardly does damage, but your plane is immediately on fire.

 

 

my point Exactly... the ammo was free, and others are using it. So as per conservation ethos of Teddy Roosevelt, use it (ammo) or lose it (game)!

 

this is Exactly what I mean when I point out the inherent imbalances created by the developers of the game. We either all use gold ammo, to level the playing field, or no gold ammo. Who the heII had gold ammo in WWII ? Why do the devs think this is a GOOD thing? These are the questions that need to be re-addressed for re-balance issues.



CorvusCorvax #13 Posted 08 January 2019 - 08:50 PM

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While I am grinding my equipment, and need battle wins for salvage, I'll use the free gold ammo I have.  The third type, for GAA, is just plain wrong.  It just eats light armored targets for breakfast.  My Me-265 is a ground target death machine with that stuff.

Azis_ #14 Posted 08 January 2019 - 11:27 PM

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View PostPerrigrino, on 08 January 2019 - 12:38 PM, said:

 

 

my point Exactly... the ammo was free, and others are using it. So as per conservation ethos of Teddy Roosevelt, use it (ammo) or lose it (game)!

 

this is Exactly what I mean when I point out the inherent imbalances created by the developers of the game. We either all use gold ammo, to level the playing field, or no gold ammo. Who the heII had gold ammo in WWII ? Why do the devs think this is a GOOD thing? These are the questions that need to be re-addressed for re-balance issues.

 

It is another P2W method. I do pay up with silver for the universal, but never gold. Especially since no US bank will allow payments to WG    :unsure:
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bradk62 #15 Posted 08 January 2019 - 11:59 PM

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After much consideration, I am now convinced that the game is not "rigged", at least not on-purpose.

 

I've won battles I had no right to win and visa-versa.  I originally noted long win/loss streaks which led me to think WG was gaming the results to encourage binge playing (people don't want to quit on a winning streak or quit after a loss) but ultimately I think the win streaks are due to the low population of players driving the MM to form very similar teams over and over.

 

A couple months ago I was in T8 battle with a large human populations on both sides.  It was a well fought battle, relatively evenly matched, but eventually the other team took a commanding lead and won.  On the next battle, the teams were ALMOST identical but we eventually prevailed by a large margin.

 

The scoring is straight forward but the strategy is complex.  Each captured base generates a score for the holding team based on type.  The timing and the order of the bases flipped drives the winner.  Depending on the location of the airbases, they are valuable in that they allow you to get back into the fight sooner while the Mines generate huge scores if held long enough but my favorites are the Military Bases and the Command Centers.

 

If your team can consistently hold these, you will be very hard to beat as the bomber and missile barrages are hard to overcome and are essentially like more players on your team.

 

 


Edited by bradk62, 09 January 2019 - 12:00 AM.


Electric_samurai #16 Posted 09 January 2019 - 07:24 AM

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Love the game,but YES..lots of shady stuff was happening like you mentioned..leading the whole match and then all of a sudden the red team bar just goes woof past my team's for some reason known only to WG obviously,and you lose the match.
Got sick and tired of that,uninstalled it for the 5th time in a year.
This time i will wait and see if something will change,hopefully the whole developer team,if WG seriously wants to keep this game alive.
Until then,i will take my time and my money elsewhere,not spending a single dime on fraudulent company like WG.

Edited by Electric_samurai, 09 January 2019 - 07:25 AM.


GonerNL #17 Posted 09 January 2019 - 09:06 AM

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View PostCorvusCorvax, on 08 January 2019 - 09:50 PM, said:

The third type, for GAA, is just plain wrong. It just eats light armored targets for breakfast. My Me-265 is a ground target death machine with that stuff.

 

Mmm, I might use it for that, got some that I got in events ... but I don't think I will use it on fighters. Like I said, feels like cheating.

Got a lot lying around, too bad you don't get gold when you sell it.


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