Jump to content


What's the best way to escape and turn the tables on a Ar 197 in a less maneuverable aircraft?


  • Please log in to reply
22 replies to this topic

legoboy0401 #1 Posted 05 January 2019 - 03:30 AM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Member
  • 932 battles
  • 1,120
  • Member since:
    11-30-2013

Unfortunately, not every plane that can't turn as tight as the overpowered monstrosity that is the Ar 197 has a rear gunner to screw tail-chasers over.

 

In particular, the Thunderbolt line's early multi-roles really struggle to overcome the Ar-197s IS-3A (WoT reference) level of brokenness turn rate and better than average armament with their machinegun only armament, low survivability all-round, and their being dogged by some of the worst turn rates of multi-role fighters for 3, 4, and 5.

 

What trick might be used that the Ar-197 simply cannot keep up with and that can be used to get on the Ar-197;s tail and take it out?


Remember, remember the 14th of... June, the day of patch 2.05.  Some say it's great end-game content, some say it's horrible, but history will always recall which it actually was.

 

Spoiler

 


sandtiger #2 Posted 05 January 2019 - 03:53 AM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Member
  • 16677 battles
  • 1,064
  • Member since:
    04-25-2011

turn out always from it  and the brake turn back so you get its side  or flip up an back at the same time then dive now at them

well that work for the bad bots and pilots that are not use to the plane  yet



sandtiger #3 Posted 05 January 2019 - 03:57 AM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Member
  • 16677 battles
  • 1,064
  • Member since:
    04-25-2011

with the base  bots if you turn out from there path then dive or climb most the time they well shot right past you going on there normal path

then you just pull in  behind  or come up to it side just behind the tail and a little to the left or right it has a blind spot and let the bullets fly  .. it seem to work even with my tier two light fighter i use it all the time on my fw 56 ,

 


Edited by sandtiger, 05 January 2019 - 04:30 AM.


LMG #4 Posted 05 January 2019 - 04:18 AM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Member
  • 2436 battles
  • 1,819
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012

If you're using the P-43, your best bet would be to BnZ it while it's fighting something else. Keep your speed up enough so you can give it a nice pounding, but also so you can run away if it decides to return the favor. You basically fly faster than it in any situation; boosting, diving, climbing, flying straight, you name it :bajan:


This is my IL-2 (t). There are many like it, but this one is mine. :child:

vcharng #5 Posted 05 January 2019 - 04:42 AM

    Command Chief Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 3387 battles
  • 711
  • Member since:
    10-25-2017

It's not really that OP, for being extremely slow and poor in altitude.

It's so slow that a GAA with enough boost can easily outrun it, and basically anything not a GAA can outclimb it.



ShoeButton #6 Posted 05 January 2019 - 06:53 AM

    Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 2433 battles
  • 83
  • [ALAS] ALAS
  • Member since:
    08-01-2013

Push Past on your Pass doing Damage as you go.

Drive Out Away from the more Maneuverable target.

Once Far Enough away from your target to Safely Turn, make the Most Rapid Turn your AC can provide.

Attack your Target Again.

Rinse And Repeat...

 

If your target is as Fast as you AND More Maneuverable than your AC...

Slow Down on your approach and Kill Him Brfore the merge...

Or most likely he'll kill you in the Turn...

 

-ShoeButton


Edited by ShoeButton, 05 January 2019 - 06:55 AM.


SpiritFoxMY #7 Posted 05 January 2019 - 10:26 AM

    First Lieutenant

  • Closed Beta Tester
  • 3735 battles
  • 2,247
  • [R-A-W] R-A-W
  • Member since:
    12-31-2012

Ar-197 is meat on the table for a P-43 who knows what he's doing, like most other TnBs. 

 

Come in fast but don't use your boost. Just pick him out from a distance and straightline in at him. Shred him (or miss, your choice), then just level your wings, drop the hammer and boost out. He cannot keep up with you and if he's dumb enough to try, just run until you're about 800 - 1000m away, loop around and repeat until he's dead. If he tries to facetank you head on, just open up the boost and fly straight through him. You're in a heavier airplane with more HP. If he's dumb enough to give you the ram, oblige him.

 

Keep telling yourself - "One Pass, Haul A*s". Don't turn in the P-43; you'll get murdered.


Edited by SpiritFoxMY, 05 January 2019 - 10:26 AM.

***

But a truce to this mournful story

For death is a distant friend

So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


pyantoryng #8 Posted 05 January 2019 - 11:20 AM

    Colonel

  • Closed Beta Tester
  • 1729 battles
  • 8,305
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012

Ar 197's top speed is something like a little above 400 even in a dive, which it can hardly sustain due to low vertical power.

 

Stop playing into their game and play your game.



WoWP makes a great jousting game...especially with the 262 and people busy in furballs...
I am deaf, silent, and fly with unrealistic controls. Do not count on me to carry - my back's already broken from overweight.

Dru83 #9 Posted 05 January 2019 - 03:48 PM

    Senior Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 2933 battles
  • 266
  • [X3M] X3M
  • Member since:
    03-27-2016

The guys above have pretty much handled it. The AR-197 is wicked up close, but it has no speed at all and little climbing ability. So if you stay high and make a diving pass and then either fly straight away from it or climb away from it, you will get away. Once you are a good 3,000 ft away, reverse your direction and make another pass.

 

The three best ways to reverse direction in something in the T-bolt line are the chandelle, the Immelmann, and the split-S. A chandelle is a slow, climbing turn; this will build some altitude so you have more energy on your next pass. The Immelmann is a half loop followed by a half roll. This will leave you in a higher position with less speed but more potential energy (not advisable when your speed is low). The Split S is a half roll followed by a diving half loop. This will leave you in a lower position with more speed, but less potential energy (not advisable when you are close to the ground).


 

If you stick to the high altitude boom and zoom playstyle you should never get caught by the Ar-197 because it is too low and slow. However, if you do get caught with no altitude and no airspeed and he's on your six, there is one last thing you can try. If you slow down quickly (flaps, cut throttle, pull up, and put the rudder hard over), it is possible to make him miss you and give you a chance at shooting him as he overshoots. This is really a last ditch move and hopefully you'll never need it because you're flying your Boom and Zoom planes high and fast.



Cenotaph #10 Posted 05 January 2019 - 04:44 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Closed Beta Tester
  • 3307 battles
  • 1,250
  • [HVAR] HVAR
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012

I have never, ever, been afraid of an AR 197...                           :sceptic:

 

If you think it's OP, quit now... before you have to fight against Spitfires from tier 5-8


Edited by Cenotaph, 05 January 2019 - 04:46 PM.

I don't want to hurt you... I just want to kill you!

SpiritFoxMY #11 Posted 05 January 2019 - 05:00 PM

    First Lieutenant

  • Closed Beta Tester
  • 3735 battles
  • 2,247
  • [R-A-W] R-A-W
  • Member since:
    12-31-2012

View PostCenotaph, on 06 January 2019 - 12:44 AM, said:

I have never, ever, been afraid of an AR 197...                           :sceptic:

 

If you think it's OP, quit now... before you have to fight against Spitfires from tier 5-8

 

OP has been up to tier 5 before.

Edited by SpiritFoxMY, 05 January 2019 - 05:05 PM.

***

But a truce to this mournful story

For death is a distant friend

So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


Cenotaph #12 Posted 05 January 2019 - 05:53 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Closed Beta Tester
  • 3307 battles
  • 1,250
  • [HVAR] HVAR
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012

View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 05 January 2019 - 09:00 AM, said:

 

OP has been up to tier 5 before.

 

That doesn't change the fact that Spitfires are a plague on the entirety of the middle tiers, and that they make the AR 197 look pathetic in comparison... :P
I don't want to hurt you... I just want to kill you!

CorvusCorvax #13 Posted 05 January 2019 - 05:55 PM

    First Lieutenant

  • Member
  • 2658 battles
  • 2,669
  • [JG52] JG52
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012

View PostCenotaph, on 05 January 2019 - 04:44 PM, said:

I have never, ever, been afraid of an AR 197...     

 

Sadly, this ^^^^

 

The 197, and all of the very turny, slow, low-altitude fighters in the mid tiers, are easy kills for most everything, IF...

 

IF they try and fly high,

IF they try and fly in straight lines,

IF they try and head on,

IF they tail-ride a rear-turret aircraft.

 

I fly my Bf-110C-6 at T4 a bit.  Whenever I see an Ar197, I think "cool, another kill for my tally today", because even with a good pilot at the helm, I will just BnZ the guy forever until he's dead.  Usually it doesn't take more than a few passes, even with a great pilot, because the Bf-110 does everything better than the Ar197, except turn.  If I'm lazy, I might even use boost.  I did get into a turnfight with one, once.  But I was in a Fantome.  ;)



CorvusCorvax #14 Posted 05 January 2019 - 05:56 PM

    First Lieutenant

  • Member
  • 2658 battles
  • 2,669
  • [JG52] JG52
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012

View PostCenotaph, on 05 January 2019 - 05:53 PM, said:

 

That doesn't change the fact that Spitfires are a plague on the entirety of the middle tiers, and that they make the AR 197 look pathetic in comparison... :P

 

The only time I fall to a Spitfire is when I'm not paying attention, or my luck runs out at the same time my boost does.  My favorite Spitfire-eating plane is the Me-410.

Cenotaph #15 Posted 06 January 2019 - 12:36 AM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Closed Beta Tester
  • 3307 battles
  • 1,250
  • [HVAR] HVAR
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012

View PostCorvusCorvax, on 05 January 2019 - 09:56 AM, said:

 

The only time I fall to a Spitfire is when I'm not paying attention

 

Seems the vast majority of Spit pilots seem to specialize in sniping engaged players.

 

 

View PostCorvusCorvax, on 05 January 2019 - 09:56 AM, said:

 My favorite Spitfire-eating plane is the Me-410.

 

That's like saying your favorite SU-9 eating plane is a pre-nerf Pancake...   :P


I don't want to hurt you... I just want to kill you!

CorvusCorvax #16 Posted 06 January 2019 - 03:49 AM

    First Lieutenant

  • Member
  • 2658 battles
  • 2,669
  • [JG52] JG52
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012

View PostCenotaph, on 06 January 2019 - 12:36 AM, said:

 

That's like saying your favorite SU-9 eating plane is a pre-nerf Pancake...   :P

 

I have no idea what this means.

 

T6 Spitifires are not as OP as folks think.



SpiritFoxMY #17 Posted 06 January 2019 - 04:45 AM

    First Lieutenant

  • Closed Beta Tester
  • 3735 battles
  • 2,247
  • [R-A-W] R-A-W
  • Member since:
    12-31-2012

View PostCorvusCorvax, on 06 January 2019 - 11:49 AM, said:

 

I have no idea what this means.

 

T6 Spitifires are not as OP as folks think.

 

He's saying that you're pitching a plane that is overwhelmingly superior to the target as "your favorite" - its basically stating the obvious.


***

But a truce to this mournful story

For death is a distant friend

So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


Cenotaph #18 Posted 06 January 2019 - 04:52 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Closed Beta Tester
  • 3307 battles
  • 1,250
  • [HVAR] HVAR
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012

View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 05 January 2019 - 08:45 PM, said:

 

He's saying that you're pitching a plane that is overwhelmingly superior to the target as "your favorite" - its basically stating the obvious.

 

Exactly.
I don't want to hurt you... I just want to kill you!

CorvusCorvax #19 Posted 06 January 2019 - 06:57 PM

    First Lieutenant

  • Member
  • 2658 battles
  • 2,669
  • [JG52] JG52
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012

View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 06 January 2019 - 04:45 AM, said:

 

He's saying that you're pitching a plane that is overwhelmingly superior to the target as "your favorite" - its basically stating the obvious.

 

If it was obvious, then fewer people would fly the T6 Spitfire, and more would fly pretty much any T6 HF.  And yet, they don't.  People complain ad nauseum about the Spitfire being overpowered.

 

It isn't. 

 

Hell, my favorite plane-eating plane is the Me-410.  Even downtiered.  But my comments are directed at the "Spitfire is OP" crowd.



Booze_Morgan #20 Posted 06 January 2019 - 07:33 PM

    Senior Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 377 battles
  • 196
  • [RBL_] RBL_
  • Member since:
    10-01-2018

The answer has been given, and well stated.  I will give my view on it, which will probably be repeating.

 

Task, conditions, and standard:

Task: Kill the AR-197. Live to smile about it.

Condition: It turns better than you and has a rear gunner.

Standard: Use its weaknesses against it, win the fight with little damage to your plane.

 

Discussion:

1. The AR-197 turns well, its guns do damage.

2. It is slow.

3. It has poor altitude advantage (except for some bots who can make it see God, it seems.)

 

1. Do not get in a turn fight with it. Simple. This therefore, leads to:

2. You can whoosh by this plane easily. Really easily. It is really slow, even with a bot driving. Use the speed it does not have.

3. Zoom from on high, boom it well, go back high, and quickly. (If it tries to chase you up, it will stall very soon, and then you have it.).

 

Conclusion:

Z&B it, use altitude (and return to altitude) and speed to your advantage, rinse and repeat, never T&B with it.  This will keep you out of its sites.

 

Bonus:

This is a good strategy to learn against many T&B fighters and multi-roles as you progress. 

 

Suggestion:

Practice with a proven Z&B fighter, the 109B.  Just remember to Z&B, do not turn.

 

Further advice:

PROTECT THE PLANE.  This is an excellent attitude to have to help you survive.

 

Booze

 

 

 


Edited by Booze_Morgan, 06 January 2019 - 07:36 PM.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users