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are games predetermined?

game fixing

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Poll: are the games fixed? (43 members have cast votes)

Do you think games are predetermined?

  1. yes (20 votes [46.51%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 46.51%

  2. no (23 votes [53.49%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 53.49%

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JuanMendoza #21 Posted 05 January 2019 - 12:06 AM

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View PostPrenzlau_Tyrannus, on 04 January 2019 - 09:44 PM, said:

 

 I'm a load to deal with alone as well.

 

Prenzlau_Tyrannus

 

Get your hand off it.



CaptainBussey #22 Posted 05 January 2019 - 12:57 AM

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Personally, I believe to dismiss the idea it is very naive.

vcharng #23 Posted 05 January 2019 - 01:07 AM

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Why are we having such a poll at all?

We all know this "predetermined" [edited]is nothing more than a whine from a guy who should've disappeared from this forum years ago.



BB3_Oregon_Steel #24 Posted 05 January 2019 - 01:18 AM

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View PostCaptain_Underpants53, on 04 January 2019 - 12:05 PM, said:

 

I guess I think that the predetermined part IS done by the MM, not by any conscious person.  To me, in other words, it makes no difference if a person or the MM sets up the conditions for a sure loss.  Either way it is predetermined.

 

Understood. 

 

However I really think that the primary thrust behind this question is whether the game is being purposefully manipulated so that certain players are preselected to  lose while other players are purposefully preselected to win ala Hamhock Jones. 

 

In the world of Hamhock Jones, "Rigged" and "Fixed" are common accusations, each of which imply the intervention of humans specifically designing and building systems to designate certain players as "winners" and others as "losers".  This would require not a matchmaking system which sometimes places one team or another at a disadvantage due to a possible defect in the design, but a matchmaker specifically designed to recognize certain players entering the battle and then purposefully "stacking the deck" so that it is nearly impossible for that player to win. 

 

One is a detrimental unintended consequence of a less than perfect design, the other is purposeful fraud intended to harm certain player(s).  

 

I really think this later possibility forms the basis of Prenzlau's question. 

 

Is WG purposefully rigging the game specifically to damage certain players and possibly help others or not. 

 


Edited by BB3_Oregon_Steel, 05 January 2019 - 01:21 AM.


Captain_Underpants53 #25 Posted 05 January 2019 - 01:31 AM

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View PostBB3_Oregon_Steel, on 04 January 2019 - 08:18 PM, said:

 

Understood. 

 

However I really think that the primary thrust behind this question is whether the game is being purposefully manipulated so that certain players are preselected to  lose while other players are purposefully preselected to win ala Hamhock Jones. 

 

In the world of Hamhock Jones, "Rigged" and "Fixed" are common accusations, each of which imply the intervention of humans specifically designing and building systems to designate certain players as "winners" and others as "losers".  This would require not a matchmaking system which sometimes places one team or another at a disadvantage due to a possible defect in the design, but a matchmaker specifically designed to recognize certain players entering the battle and then purposefully "stacking the deck" so that it is nearly impossible for that player to win. 

 

One is a detrimental unintended consequence of a less than perfect design, the other is purposeful fraud intended to harm certain player(s).  

 

I really think this later possibility forms the basis of Prenzlau's question. 

 

Is WG purposefully rigging the game specifically to damage certain players and possibly help others or not. 

 

 

Good point.   No, I don't believe WG is.
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CaptainBussey #26 Posted 05 January 2019 - 01:54 AM

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View PostBB3_Oregon_Steel, on 04 January 2019 - 07:18 PM, said:

 

Understood. 

 

However I really think that the primary thrust behind this question is whether the game is being purposefully manipulated so that certain players are preselected to  lose while other players are purposefully preselected to win ala Hamhock Jones. 

 

In the world of Hamhock Jones, "Rigged" and "Fixed" are common accusations, each of which imply the intervention of humans specifically designing and building systems to designate certain players as "winners" and others as "losers".  This would require not a matchmaking system which sometimes places one team or another at a disadvantage due to a possible defect in the design, but a matchmaker specifically designed to recognize certain players entering the battle and then purposefully "stacking the deck" so that it is nearly impossible for that player to win. 

 

One is a detrimental unintended consequence of a less than perfect design, the other is purposeful fraud intended to harm certain player(s).  

 

I really think this later possibility forms the basis of Prenzlau's question. 

 

Is WG purposefully rigging the game specifically to damage certain players and possibly help others or not. 

 

 

I think this is an essential element of the conversation, that why when I discuss the subject  I like to use the word "manipulation" instead of "rigged". Rigged often implies some type of bias or motivation towards or against certain players, and there just isn't the motivation to do such. I just don't be;ieve that motivation exist.

 

But what I do believe is a possibility is that companies like this one use concepts such as RNG to manipulate stats for business model purposes.  Therefore I believe it is possible for a residual effect of this to be people who should win, lose and vice versa.

 

I've said this a dozen times, especially on the WoT forum, between RNG and the implementation of bots to believe that the POSSIBILITY outcomes of matches aren't predetermined and/or manipulated is extremely naive.



wingman4u #27 Posted 05 January 2019 - 03:02 AM

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I think the better question is if there is some degree of HANDICAPPING going on.  Not necessarily on selected players,  but perhaps on selected performers in any given match.  Possibly selected players on random days.  Maybe every player from time to time.

 



Perrigrino #28 Posted 05 January 2019 - 10:55 AM

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Period length[edit]

A benefit of LCGs is that with appropriate choice of parameters, the period is known and long. Although not the only criterion, too short a period is a fatal flaw in a pseudorandom number generator.[3]

While LCGs are capable of producing pseudorandom numbers which can pass formal tests for randomness, this is extremely sensitive to the choice of the parameters m and a.For example, a = 1 and c = 1 produces a simple modulo-m counter, which has a long period, but is obviously non–random.

 

From: https://en.wikipedia...ntial_generator

 


Edited by Perrigrino, 05 January 2019 - 10:56 AM.


Perrigrino #29 Posted 05 January 2019 - 11:18 AM

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https://www.random.org/randomness/

"PRNGs are efficient, meaning they can produce many numbers in a short time, and deterministic, meaning that a given sequence of numbers can be reproduced at a later date if the starting point in the sequence is known ...."



comealong1 #30 Posted 05 January 2019 - 12:00 PM

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Oh boy, stir the pot...lol.. Everyone has there opinion on this... I wanted to bring this to light & seems to have worked... When the lucky win does not even seem to exist?... I personally think WG is cooked as hell & think they have it figured out... Prob have a think tank on how to squeeze more out of us... I have no proof but feel it very strong... They play the odds... And never fix what we need & want fixed... Every time the game is in trouble they change every thing... They're support is worth nothing or less than that.. Do you think they are going to change?

BB3_Oregon_Steel #31 Posted 05 January 2019 - 11:27 PM

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View Postcomealong1, on 05 January 2019 - 04:00 AM, said:

Oh boy, stir the pot...lol.. Everyone has there opinion on this... I wanted to bring this to light & seems to have worked... When the lucky win does not even seem to exist?... I personally think WG is cooked as hell & think they have it figured out... Prob have a think tank on how to squeeze more out of us... I have no proof but feel it very strong... They play the odds... And never fix what we need & want fixed... Every time the game is in trouble they change every thing... They're support is worth nothing or less than that.. Do you think they are going to change?

 

Here's the thing.  

 

In what way would WG benefit from any of this.  In what way does influencing or rigging a game help them bring in more players and the cold hard cash that WG depends on?  In what possible set of fact patterns can WG benefit from taking any of the actions they have been accused of.   

 

 



comealong1 #32 Posted 06 January 2019 - 11:38 AM

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You ever notice how many times you get in situations where the grind is tough or takes time to do anything in this game... Suddenly this morning the game play is so bad everyone is [edited]... They have rubber banding, freeze ups, & black screens... But no one will come up with a hotfix they want to wait till next scheduled update... Fools that they are.... CEO of WG has admitted to not listening to the player base... We just keep plugging away... These guys{wg} just keep taking our money... They want us to buy completions, certificates, premium time, premium planes, & gold... Make things just hard enough to make us spend money... Which favors the top players in the game... They don't care who the top players are... They say GIVE ME MONEY, THEY GIVE ME EVERYTHING... What benefits indeed, I give you money!

comealong1 #33 Posted 06 January 2019 - 02:48 PM

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They admit to handicapping... Say something wrong in here...lol.. Hard to win after [edited]in here every time.. Money is they're motive & the who's & what's don't matter... Many ways to do this crap and no way for us to really know.. Think they call that plause able denyabillity. (spelling).. But it shows so much...lol

Azis_ #34 Posted 07 January 2019 - 05:23 AM

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I now have my own numbers that point to F2P/P2W
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comealong1 #35 Posted 07 January 2019 - 11:36 AM

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All should boycott this bug riddled game until hotfixes are applied.

Perrigrino #36 Posted 07 January 2019 - 01:38 PM

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Although I don't think game is rigged or battles fixed, it is flawed, nor could it be perfect. It's the direction of the changes, when they happen. In any MM such as this there are inherent imbalances/systemic biases, that create surprise and frustration. But when imbalances are introduced that push the scales heavily in one direction, such as Specialization, or as I have recently discovered, with the advent of Christmas and all the goodies- got a lot of GOLD AMMO... and Holy Mother of Christmas, do they make a HUGE difference.

 

So, at the moment I have to ask myself, to what end/motive/rationale would WG create such obvious imbalance in the way vehicles behave and damage other vehicles, while trying to set up matches between players, who are in all sorts of vehicles of varying qualities and strengths with the aim of balance?

 

Kinda…. odd. Random, chaotic, but at times, unexpectedly challenging, frustrating and rewarding. Some of the matches are literally impossible, and there is the rare opportunity to overcome incredible odds, which, when happens is awesome. There "seems" to be alot of attention on the issue of MM balance and the resultant battle matches that are setup. Again, there "seems" like alot of frustration voiced. These issues are not only felt here but in Ships, Tanks, and numerous other games.

 

Frustation abounds, and often, out of sheer frustration, people spend money. They are provided with incentives to "do better" or cheat.  Specialization, is in a way, cheating, if one is being completely honest. Gold ammo is another way of cheating. But in this game cheating is normalized. It has become the rule. 

 

See, we have to think about what we expect in a fair match- and that is part of the problem as well. From a cultural point of view, NA expect opponents on teams to be as evenly trained and matched as possible, so that one team emerges a winner. One is "better" by virtue of skill, training, intelligence, plan, strategic execution and other internal "human" variables- attributes, or at least some of the thinking goes.

 

When the external attributes, which are in themselves flawed are configure in such a way that they create systemic bias, even the optics of imbalance, that's when emotions get flared up. And it's human nature to cry unfair- even in times of war. And for a game about war, kinda ironic that we complain that it's not fair. But then it's suppose to be a "game" and not actual war.

 

Can something be done to create "better" balance- short answer, yes. Just depends on how "better" is defined. - focus on that!

 

 

 


Edited by Perrigrino, 07 January 2019 - 02:42 PM.


Perrigrino #37 Posted 07 January 2019 - 01:53 PM

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Here's a couple thoughts,

  1. how about Specialization for everyone- NO Grinding required. 
  2.  No More Tears. Just Type n Class. Battle opponents at the same level and in the same vehicles and if wait too long make it Co-Op.

 

Couple starting points to even things up a bit. Once the free gold ammo runs out won't be buying anymore, but what a difference!

 

I get it, the money for WG has to come from somewhere.... Interesting that games such as Fortnite make money on things that have everything to do with appearance- Skins, emotes etc..., and that anyone can access gold weaponry with in-game credits/actions.


Edited by Perrigrino, 07 January 2019 - 01:54 PM.


comealong1 #38 Posted 07 January 2019 - 03:36 PM

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They fix nothing and the bugs make things to look unfair at least.... Too many bugs is really whacked this game out... They need to stop right here with updates & do hotfixes until all are fixed… Then continue updates... I don't see why that is so hard to understand... They keep pilling the bugs up til things are a scrambled mess... They did that since going live as they called it... Now they are doing it all over again in 2.0 version... I mean how foolish can they be? 

Edited by comealong1, 07 January 2019 - 03:37 PM.


Electric_samurai #39 Posted 09 January 2019 - 07:19 AM

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Yep YES THEY ARE and YES WG is still doing it in all games not just in Warplanes.
Even the veteran pilots are now saying the same exact thing,you might as well throw a coin before the match as your luck(depending on which side you were) means more then skills in this game now.
Sad situation overall,i still like the game but i will take some time off until things change.
Not going to waste my time on fraudulent company.  

comealong1 #40 Posted 10 January 2019 - 04:27 PM

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Somebody was looking for this... Please no warning for this.




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