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Surviving Spitfires...Impossible?


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Chuck_norris10 #21 Posted 25 December 2018 - 09:22 PM

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View PostCaptain_Rownd, on 25 December 2018 - 02:11 PM, said:

 

There's often nothing up there at high altitude to shoot at.  If I want to contribute to the cap battle I gotta shoot at enemies, so I was trying the "boom and zoom".  I zoomed, they boomed.  ;D  Sometimes they just appeared out of nowhere like ninja assassins.  Otherwise, flying across the entire battlefield searching for heavy fighter icons takes your guns out of the game for a looooooooong time.  (and turrets and tailgunners on big planes wreck things like I-210 and Me-209 fast)

 

But the problem with Spitfires is similar for lower altitude aircraft.  I fly everything in my hangar if I have time.  Spitfires just seem to be good at everything. 

 

Well i,m still new at this spit but I had a pretty good pilot on my team (Azula) flying one and he was doing good so I just followed him. He would get over one of our bases,drop for a zoom and boom and as I got within range planes started appearing everywhere and it was like the marianas turkey shoot. Drop from 1400 and be doing 700 kph when he was in range and you can still turnfight at 400+ kph waiting for boost so he would drop 3 planes and then turn and burn.30 seconds later hes on another 3. I never found time to climb back higher then 1000 meters as it just got too crazy.

 

 


 

vcharng #22 Posted 26 December 2018 - 03:02 AM

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View PostCaptain_Rownd, on 25 December 2018 - 09:21 PM, said:

 

Not being able to use boost inbound makes it much harder to take advantage of an opportunity  :(  I thought boosting a bit on the dive I'd already be too fast for them to turn and catch, but that wasn't the case.

 

Dive in and boost out, there won't be another way.

Also you should start with BnZing in a HF, BnZing in a "fast LF" is less advantageous in the current meta. Turn fighters are indeed OP for now, but they are not invincible, and if you really want to defeat them you'll need something faster than LFs.



El_Mulo #23 Posted 26 December 2018 - 03:56 AM

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My Yak 9 U got a diet based on Spits...

 


What we say to death?

Captain_Rownd #24 Posted 26 December 2018 - 06:17 AM

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View Postvcharng, on 26 December 2018 - 03:02 AM, said:

 

Dive in and boost out, there won't be another way.

Also you should start with BnZing in a HF, BnZing in a "fast LF" is less advantageous in the current meta. Turn fighters are indeed OP for now, but they are not invincible, and if you really want to defeat them you'll need something faster than LFs.

 

I'm just using fairly mainstream fighters for now, and trying to make what I have work. 
Specialist: SPAD S.510, P-40, MiG-3, A6M1, XP-44, Fw 190 A-5, Me 209 V4

vcharng #25 Posted 26 December 2018 - 06:27 AM

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View PostCaptain_Rownd, on 26 December 2018 - 06:17 AM, said:

 

I'm just using fairly mainstream fighters for now, and trying to make what I have work. 

 

mainstream fighters probably don't include Me 209s and/or I-210s.

The "mainstream LFs" are exactly what you are having trouble with, namely Spitfires and Japanese planes.



Captain_Rownd #26 Posted 26 December 2018 - 09:42 AM

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View Postvcharng, on 26 December 2018 - 06:27 AM, said:

 

mainstream fighters probably don't include Me 209s and/or I-210s.

The "mainstream LFs" are exactly what you are having trouble with, namely Spitfires and Japanese planes.

 

I-210 comes directly between MiG-3 and MiG-15 in the russian tech tree.  Doesn't seem like that needs much explanation. 

 

The Me 209 v4 was a free premium.  I had to sell the Fw 190 because I wasn't doing well with it and I ran out of hangar slots, but I run the Me 209 v4 to keep levelling up my German fighter pilot and get myself practice in that kind of high speed plane.  It generally works well for me.  Eventually I will pick up the Fw 190 again

 

But it isn't those particular planes that are the problem.  I just thought those would be fast enough to dive in to put a burst into a Spitfire and zoom off before getting killed, and they weren't. 


Edited by Captain_Rownd, 26 December 2018 - 09:58 AM.

Specialist: SPAD S.510, P-40, MiG-3, A6M1, XP-44, Fw 190 A-5, Me 209 V4

SpiritFoxMY #27 Posted 26 December 2018 - 11:39 AM

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View PostCaptain_Rownd, on 26 December 2018 - 05:42 PM, said:

 

I-210 comes directly between MiG-3 and MiG-15 in the russian tech tree.  Doesn't seem like that needs much explanation. 

 

The Me 209 v4 was a free premium.  I had to sell the Fw 190 because I wasn't doing well with it and I ran out of hangar slots, but I run the Me 209 v4 to keep levelling up my German fighter pilot and get myself practice in that kind of high speed plane.  It generally works well for me.  Eventually I will pick up the Fw 190 again

 

But it isn't those particular planes that are the problem.  I just thought those would be fast enough to dive in to put a burst into a Spitfire and zoom off before getting killed, and they weren't. 

 

Ok, so both the Me209 v4 and the I-210 are infamous for terrible firepower. The v4's guns are straight up awful and your only real advantage in it is altitude. Against a Spit, drift down towards him, keeping your speed up, but don't boost until you've hit him, then slam on the boost and start climbing gradually. Don't duck or weave - just a smooth straightline climb at max boost. Think like a sailplane or a glider - smooth, graceful motions - because that's what the v4 is: a powered sailplane

 

The I-210 is more mainstream, but again, dive, don't boost. Position yourself above him, then drop. Use your altitude to position yourself to shoot him no matter where he turns. As soon as he breaks out if your sights, again, point the nose up and slam on the boost. Because the I-210 has a more powerful engine, you can afford to take the climb a lot sharper and throw the plane about a bit. Your vertical energy retention is better than his so you can maneuver a bit more and still maintain an energy advantage.

 

Personally, I can help you more in a Focke Wulf against a Spit than in these two though I disagree with vcharng that the I-210 is our of the mainstream. The MiG line is as mainstream as they come and, while not wholly in the meta, are strong contenders and will tear Zeroes apart without batting an eye. 

 

If you need more help, I can ping Reitousair on the official Discord. He's the only guy I know who loves the I-210.


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Captain_Rownd #28 Posted 26 December 2018 - 10:27 PM

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Diving without using boost makes it more likely they'll finish what they're doing as you approach and turn to pound you head-on.  Criticals, fire, etc  :(  You lose some positioning advantage taking extra time, too.  I was thinking that going in with speed would mean a more surprise attack, better position, and faster initial separation after contact.  I wasn't going to climb until I reached safety, because that saps speed, so I just keep zooming straight through at max speed expecting that they wouldn't be able to make a 180 and close distance. But, it turned out they can do that pretty easily. :/  I'll keep tweaking my approach. 

 


Edited by Captain_Rownd, 26 December 2018 - 11:22 PM.

Specialist: SPAD S.510, P-40, MiG-3, A6M1, XP-44, Fw 190 A-5, Me 209 V4

vcharng #29 Posted 27 December 2018 - 12:56 AM

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View PostCaptain_Rownd, on 26 December 2018 - 10:27 PM, said:

 to pound you head-on.

 

That's why I-210 and 209V4 is a problem.

Usually a BnZer should have superior firepower to turn fighters, if they try to head-on you they are digging their own grave.



Captain_Rownd #30 Posted 27 December 2018 - 01:50 AM

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View Postvcharng, on 27 December 2018 - 12:56 AM, said:

That's why I-210 and 209V4 is a problem.

Usually a BnZer should have superior firepower to turn fighters, if they try to head-on you they are digging their own grave.

 

I fly what I've got, and make use of it as best as I can.  I don't pursue metas.  I'm working as many branches of the fighter tech trees as I have hangar slots for. 

Edited by Captain_Rownd, 27 December 2018 - 01:58 AM.

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Dru83 #31 Posted 27 December 2018 - 01:59 AM

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Captain_Rownd said:

I wasn't going to climb until I reached safety

 

In this case, climbing gets you to safety. The Spit doesn't have the engine power and altitude band to climb back up after you, especially if they've been slowing themselves down by turning. Try climbing back up right before you get to where the spit is and use that 45 degree climbing angle. The I-210 should be able to handle this without too much issue. The 209v4 is better suited to staying at altitude as much as possible and taking out bombers and heavies. Instead of thinking that the edge of the cap is your safe place, think more of altitude being your safe place. Get as high as you easily can and work from the top down. Because you are up high and have plenty of speed, you can pick your targets, so pick them well. A full hp spit might not be the best target, but popping defense bot heavies will win the cap. Picking off a low hp spit after your bots have chewed him up a bit will help too. Think of yourself as a vulture. You circle overhead and pick on the weak.


 


 

 



Captain_Rownd #32 Posted 27 December 2018 - 02:27 AM

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View PostDru83, on 27 December 2018 - 01:59 AM, said:

 

In this case, climbing gets you to safety. The Spit doesn't have the engine power and altitude band to climb back up after you, especially if they've been slowing themselves down by turning. Try climbing back up right before you get to where the spit is and use that 45 degree climbing angle.

 

 

I'll have to try - it just felt like sacrificing speed (separation) to climb would give them more opportunity to chew on my tail than staying at top speed in a straight line in my supposedly faster aircraft.  It only takes a few seconds to die, so even if they can't climb as high they can just shoot me down before I get there. 

 

Problem with going after things that are already low in hit points is they've often already died in the time it takes to close distance to them, so you've wasted a ton of time and gained no opportunity.  In caps I've been trying to hit things that appear to be attacking my allies, to try to break those attacks up.  "Picking targets" before moving in is hit and miss since the battle evolves fast and planes are all going in different directions in the time it takes to reach them. 

 

The Me 209 v4 doesn't have enough firepower or hit points to tangle with bombers/heavies that have turrets or tail gunners, so sometimes it works against them, and sometimes not.  I always attack cap bot heavies with anything that can operate at 1500m, but once those are down there are seldom any more heavies/bombers nearby to pursue.

 

edit: I noticed I have 2 hangar slots, so I decided to try the Fw 109 A-5 again....bzzzzzzzzoooooooooooommmmm...

 


Edited by Captain_Rownd, 27 December 2018 - 08:27 AM.

Specialist: SPAD S.510, P-40, MiG-3, A6M1, XP-44, Fw 190 A-5, Me 209 V4

Captain_Rownd #33 Posted 27 December 2018 - 03:32 AM

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Speaking of Spitfires, it was after my bad Spitfire day that I noticed that there's a special "Iron Maiden" Spitfire.  :ohmy:
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Captain_Rownd #34 Posted 27 December 2018 - 05:20 PM

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So, in my P-40 I encountered a Spitfire that was up at around 1500m.  It still shot me down in two passes.  I couldn't even get my guns on it.  No safety up there either.  Same theme in other battles this morning - always a Spitfire ruining my game.  Nothing else shoots me down as often. :ohmy:

Edited by Captain_Rownd, 27 December 2018 - 06:41 PM.

Specialist: SPAD S.510, P-40, MiG-3, A6M1, XP-44, Fw 190 A-5, Me 209 V4

Chuck_norris10 #35 Posted 27 December 2018 - 08:28 PM

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View PostCaptain_Rownd, on 27 December 2018 - 10:20 AM, said:

So, in my P-40 I encountered a Spitfire that was up at around 1500m.  It still shot me down in two passes.  I couldn't even get my guns on it.  No safety up there either.  Same theme in other battles this morning - always a Spitfire ruining my game.  Nothing else shoots me down as often. :ohmy:

 

Well if hes flicking around they are hard to hit.You have to swoop down from way higher and take time lining up because they dont take hits well at all.Stay above him and dont give him time or space to boost up at you because it runs out quickly..Spit boost IMO is best used to maintain say 380-400 kph in a turn fight and used in very short bursts to dive and get out of dodge quick .

With all the tips on how to kill spits I noticed lots of ZnB on me last night and I tried dragging my attacker as low to the ground as possible before reefing back hard on the stick which seemed to work as they plowed into the ground.

1600 to about 1800 is where I usually start at but once down below in the fray the only thing that would entice me back is an unescorted bomber formation.I'm still not that good with this plane but it's all I have flown the last few days because it is so much fun!

Like the zero,it is a sniper plane,you get in,cause a lot of mayhem and then peel away because it only takes a couple well aimed crits from a ju87 or 88 or f4u and your done. I see a flight and it's not a matter of if but when im going to get killed.

I can turn fight at 200 to 400 meters at 400 kph in a furball and then peel away zipping through mountains and scraping the trees to evade guys on my 6.

 

They are far from invincible but your not exploiting their weak spots.They can turn and drop from 1800 meters to 400 and be up to 750 kph in no time at all.

Keep the posts going though,this intel on the guys trying to kill me is better then the intel from enigma in ww2.

 

 

 


 

 


 

Captain_Rownd #36 Posted 27 December 2018 - 09:28 PM

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There's really nothing up above 1500 except bombers, so I don't normally spend the extra time to go higher than that.  Even if I'm chasing a cap heavy they usually start diving on something before I get to them anyway so time spent climbing higher is wasted and makes it longer to get to target. 

 

Now that I've started with the Fw 190 again the learning curve will get steeper....along with the diving attacks.  :trollface:  There's a reason I rage-sold that thing long ago and kept happily flying the Me 209 v4.  Time to figure it out again.


Edited by Captain_Rownd, 27 December 2018 - 09:33 PM.

Specialist: SPAD S.510, P-40, MiG-3, A6M1, XP-44, Fw 190 A-5, Me 209 V4

Chuck_norris10 #37 Posted 27 December 2018 - 09:45 PM

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View PostCaptain_Rownd, on 27 December 2018 - 02:28 PM, said:

There's really nothing up above 1500 except bombers, so I don't normally spend the extra time to go higher than that.  Even if I'm chasing a cap heavy they usually start diving on something before I get to them anyway so time spent climbing higher is wasted and makes it longer to get to target. 

 

Now that I've started with the Fw 190 again the learning curve will get steeper....along with the diving attacks.  :trollface:  There's a reason I rage-sold that thing long ago and kept happily flying the Me 209 v4.  Time to figure it out again.

 

I will be firing up the spit in 30 minutes,just waiting for the pilot to finish his drink.

 


 

 


 

Chuck_norris10 #38 Posted 27 December 2018 - 10:09 PM

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I'm just finishing mine too so i'm easy meat for the f4u,s!:izmena:

 

 


Edited by Chuck_norris10, 27 December 2018 - 10:10 PM.

 

 


 

Captain_Rownd #39 Posted 27 December 2018 - 11:14 PM

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I actually shot down a Spitfire more often than he shot me down in one battle this morning.  But of course the one time he did snipe me in return was that most important time - right after the Squal Line.  :sceptic:  One of the enemy Spitfires in my battles this morning had over 18000 points - about as much as all of our human pilots combined.
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Chuck_norris10 #40 Posted 27 December 2018 - 11:31 PM

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I take that all back,multiple disconnects now and js freezes and a nasty text from evilsnowman.

Told him to put in a ticket.

Top guys in that match in the H.O.F. and I was dead in the water.

 

We lost. 


Edited by Chuck_norris10, 27 December 2018 - 11:35 PM.

 

 


 




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