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FIGHTERS CANT KEEP PACE WITH NEW BOMBERS..


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Captain_Underpants53 #21 Posted 20 December 2018 - 08:07 AM

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View PostAuwingr, on 19 December 2018 - 11:45 PM, said:

I agree with most of the points made here, but I wouldn't waist my time chasing bombers, especially B-17's in a Spit. 

If the bombers are being played correctly, it takes too long to get to altitude and then you may be over the Spits acceptable ceiling. So, why try?

Heavies and some multi-roles can do the job much better. P-38's are my favorite for bomber interception. 

Knowing where to attack a bomber is important too. Prenzlau's advice to learn how to fly a bomber will help you better understand the bomber's weaknesses, when you go up against them.

 

But nooo!  He said Spitfires were sure bomber killers.  Don't be spreading disinformation.

 

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CorvusCorvax #22 Posted 20 December 2018 - 03:03 PM

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View PostAuwingr, on 20 December 2018 - 04:45 AM, said:

. P-38's are my favorite for bomber interception. 

Knowing where to attack a bomber is important too. Prenzlau's advice to learn how to fly a bomber will help you better understand the bomber's weaknesses, when you go up against them.

 

Yes.  The J with the 37mm is a bomber death machine.  And yes, flying the things gives you an idea of how to kill them.

SpiritFoxMY #23 Posted 20 December 2018 - 04:21 PM

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Well turrets have been nerfed significantly. At ranges of over 500m, a B-32 only deals 25% damage to a heavy ADA in the time it takes the B-32 to fly from one end of a cap to the other, turn back and do the same thing in the opposite direction.

 

Within 500m it will still melt you though,


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sandtiger #24 Posted 20 December 2018 - 07:00 PM

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hammock your incorrect  there is a way to beat the two bomber combo ...you just need to figure it out you do not chance them all over the map that how you  do it  .you wait till there messed  up then take take them  out  . my wing man and  i  in two fighter beat a combo  of the two tier 7 US bombers and we won the game it was not easy but it can be done you just need the right team work is all..


Edited by sandtiger, 20 December 2018 - 07:04 PM.


legoboy0401 #25 Posted 06 January 2019 - 12:06 AM

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View PostPrenzlau_Tyrannus, on 19 December 2018 - 12:09 PM, said:

    One more time for the players who hide in the peanut gallery.

 

It isn't the planes necessarily. It is the players/pilots. Been saying this for a long time. People never want to really think about it or look in the mirror. Are some planes like heavies certainly more capable of destroying bombers, of course they are. A highly skilled pilot in a light fighter can destroy bombers as well, because it is all about two things.

 

1. Attacking at the right opportunity, the timing of the attack can drastically alter the results.

 

2. The position of the attack, as far as the angles and position of the fighter attacking the bomber where it's guns are far less potent or finding a blind spot. 

 

As a bomber player I know two things as well.

 

1. Where I don't like enemy planes, heavies or otherwise attacking my plane, as far as the position they attack from.

 

2. The player/pilots attacking my bomber, as far as who they are and their skill level. 

 

This game is more than "see bomber, then attack bomber". The bomber type and the player or bot flying it has to be considered. There is a technique to attacking bombers with great success and efficiency. I'll be forthright without trying to sound arrogant, but I know who the players are that I have to alter my game for and take precautions, why? Because they have superior techniques and they are very dangerous. On the other hand, most players that attack my bomber still either need work on their skill or don't have much of it. That is just the reality I see every time I play.

 

Next small bit of advice. If you want to become really good at destroying bombers, then play them, learn the limitations and the strong advantages of bombers and then you'll know exactly how to take them out or hit them in their vulnerable spots.

 

Stop blaming just the plane when the player flying the plane has a huge impact at how that plane performs.

 

Prenzlau Tyrannus

 

For the SB and AR-2, that would be anywhere. They are useless piles of garbage that are slow, with mediocre altitude performance(typical of Tier III and IV Bombers, but more so Tier IV ones) a tolerable payload, but some of the worst Bomber defenses I think I've ever seen.

 

In a lot of ways they seem to mirror a lot of the same criticisms leveled at the Do 217 M(single-drop bombs, inadequate speed, lackluster defenses) but taken to a T. In particular, the speed issue seems worse on the two Russian craft than on the German, and the defenses of the two Russian craft? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! They are such sorry excuses for Bomber defenses that it's just laughable. The major issue with the defensive suite on both craft is the UTTERLY MASSIVE BLINDSPOT TO THE REAR. IT MUST BE ABOUT AT LEAST 35 DEGREES  either way, for a total of about 70 degrees of blindspot, all told. Also, the top defensive gun has just about no gun depression, making it utterly unable to depress below the blindspot. The bottom gun doesn't have much elevation, making it equally useless against tailers from most angles. In addition, neither gun has much traverse, leaving the sides relatively unprotected as well.

 

When they do get to fire, it's no better. the two rearward-facing guns on these two aircraft are both miserable little peashooters, lacking anything much in the way of DPS. The Dominator-caused universal defensive gun nerf also ran these already wimpy guns' effective DPS into the ground.


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Captain_Underpants53 #26 Posted 06 January 2019 - 02:53 AM

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View Postlegoboy0401, on 05 January 2019 - 07:06 PM, said:

 

For the SB and AR-2, that would be anywhere. They are useless piles of garbage that are slow, with mediocre altitude performance(typical of Tier III and IV Bombers, but more so Tier IV ones) a tolerable payload, but some of the worst Bomber defenses I think I've ever seen.

 

In a lot of ways they seem to mirror a lot of the same criticisms leveled at the Do 217 M(single-drop bombs, inadequate speed, lackluster defenses) but taken to a T. In particular, the speed issue seems worse on the two Russian craft than on the German, and the defenses of the two Russian craft? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! They are such sorry excuses for Bomber defenses that it's just laughable. The major issue with the defensive suite on both craft is the UTTERLY MASSIVE BLINDSPOT TO THE REAR. IT MUST BE ABOUT AT LEAST 35 DEGREES  either way, for a total of about 70 degrees of blindspot, all told. Also, the top defensive gun has just about no gun depression, making it utterly unable to depress below the blindspot. The bottom gun doesn't have much elevation, making it equally useless against tailers from most angles. In addition, neither gun has much traverse, leaving the sides relatively unprotected as well.

 

When they do get to fire, it's no better. the two rearward-facing guns on these two aircraft are both miserable little peashooters, lacking anything much in the way of DPS. The Dominator-caused universal defensive gun nerf also ran these already wimpy guns' effective DPS into the ground.

 

There is much validity in what you say but you can mitigate it somewhat by a constant turn or slow climb.  Keeping some boost is key.  But when you get the Joystick Bug on respawn, those two Russian bombers can be easily taken out by the worst plane with the worst gun in the game.

 

And I despise that gunner nerf.  All those skill points I invested in for the rear gunner's POOF, gone with the wind.  Prior to that nerf I was averaging one plane kill every sortie.  Now it takes three sorties to get a plane kill.  As usual, when there is an overbalance somewhere, they take the nerf hammer to it rather than the nerf flyswatter.


Edited by Captain_Underpants53, 06 January 2019 - 02:58 AM.

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CorvusCorvax #27 Posted 06 January 2019 - 06:47 PM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 20 December 2018 - 04:21 PM, said:

Well turrets have been nerfed significantly. At ranges of over 500m, a B-32 only deals 25% damage to a heavy ADA in the time it takes the B-32 to fly from one end of a cap to the other, turn back and do the same thing in the opposite direction.

 

Within 500m it will still melt you though,

 

I used to have trouble with human-controlled B-32s.  But now, especially if I have an airplane with long range cannon, I can just stand off and wait for my shells to do the work.  Ta-152, anyone?  Heck, even the -109G will eventually get it done.

HazeGrayUnderway #28 Posted 07 January 2019 - 01:39 AM

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Heavy Fighters and some regular Fighters are excellent in intercepting Bombers.

 

Letting a Bomber have free reign to do whatever it wants at its leisure can be bad.  But a Heavy Fighter will put a stop to that.  I got a B-32 that can do tremendous devastation to critical caps, namely the industrial, rocket, and bomber call caps.  Some high altitude fighters and even heavy fighters ignore me, which is just fine.  But sometimes I can't get anything done.  I remember doing my B-32 and this Flying Pancake just made it a point to make me irrelevant at the critical caps.  The heavy fighter had the speed, engine boost to quickly climb, sturdiness to withstand my defense MGs, and the firepower to rip the bomber apart.  Literally I couldn't do anything important.  He knew what caps I would go for and he just made sure to deny it.

 

Then you got the Me262s, P38s, Me410s, etc. trying to get into low altitude dogfights with Spitfires and Reppus :teethhappy:



Captain_Underpants53 #29 Posted 07 January 2019 - 02:53 AM

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 Then you got the Me262s, P38s, Me410s, etc. trying to get into low altitude dogfights with Spitfires and Reppus :teethhappy:

 

Bless them!

 

:great:


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CorvusCorvax #30 Posted 07 January 2019 - 03:26 AM

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View PostHazeGrayUnderway, on 07 January 2019 - 01:39 AM, said:

 

 

Then you got the Me262s, P38s, Me410s, etc. trying to get into low altitude dogfights with Spitfires and Reppus :teethhappy:

 

LOL.

Azis_ #31 Posted 07 January 2019 - 11:53 PM

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View PostHazeGrayUnderway, on 06 January 2019 - 05:39 PM, said:

Heavy Fighters and some regular Fighters are excellent in intercepting Bombers.

 

Letting a Bomber have free reign to do whatever it wants at its leisure can be bad.  But a Heavy Fighter will put a stop to that.  I got a B-32 that can do tremendous devastation to critical caps, namely the industrial, rocket, and bomber call caps.  Some high altitude fighters and even heavy fighters ignore me, which is just fine.  But sometimes I can't get anything done.  I remember doing my B-32 and this Flying Pancake just made it a point to make me irrelevant at the critical caps.  The heavy fighter had the speed, engine boost to quickly climb, sturdiness to withstand my defense MGs, and the firepower to rip the bomber apart.  Literally I couldn't do anything important.  He knew what caps I would go for and he just made sure to deny it.

 

Then you got the Me262s, P38s, Me410s, etc. trying to get into low altitude dogfights with Spitfires and Reppus :teethhappy:

 

So then you take a plane that can chase one or two bombers in game and hang out in the stratosphere all game, well then you get called out for head hunting, you get bored all game, and make little difference helping your team of all bots...????

 


Edited by Azis_, 07 January 2019 - 11:54 PM.

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Captain_Underpants53 #32 Posted 08 January 2019 - 05:53 AM

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View PostAzis_, on 07 January 2019 - 06:53 PM, said:

 

So then you take a plane that can chase one or two bombers in game and hang out in the stratosphere all game, well then you get called out for head hunting, you get bored all game, and make little difference helping your team of all bots...????

 

 

As a bomber pilot I don't feel that heavy is head hunting and I would like to think it is making a major contribution to winning the game.  I call it Playing To Win!  I have had games where I've been shot down four times by the same guy.  It happens.  They won.

Edited by Captain_Underpants53, 08 January 2019 - 05:58 AM.

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legoboy0401 #33 Posted 08 January 2019 - 06:21 AM

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View PostCaptain_Underpants53, on 07 January 2019 - 09:53 PM, said:

 

As a bomber pilot I don't feel that heavy is head hunting and I would like to think it is making a major contribution to winning the game.  I call it Playing To Win!  I have had games where I've been shot down four times by the same guy.  It happens.  They won.

 

I have the feeling a fully-specialized Me 209 V4 with Advanced + speed - maneuverability equipment as well as Advanced + boost efficiency - boost availability, combined with Engine Guru I and II + Raptor Strike would be an excellent Bomber hunter.

Edited by legoboy0401, 08 January 2019 - 06:22 AM.

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SpiritFoxMY #34 Posted 08 January 2019 - 07:07 AM

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View Postlegoboy0401, on 08 January 2019 - 02:21 PM, said:

 

I have the feeling a fully-specialized Me 209 V4 with Advanced + speed - maneuverability equipment as well as Advanced + boost efficiency - boost availability, combined with Engine Guru I and II + Raptor Strike would be an excellent Bomber hunter.

 

Until it runs into a B-17 which has more firepower in its tail than the 209V4 has in its nose

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Azis_ #35 Posted 08 January 2019 - 07:35 AM

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View PostCaptain_Underpants53, on 07 January 2019 - 09:53 PM, said:

 

As a bomber pilot I don't feel that heavy is head hunting and I would like to think it is making a major contribution to winning the game.  I call it Playing To Win!  I have had games where I've been shot down four times by the same guy.  It happens.  They won.

 

I respect that however, it still make for a boring battle for me.
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CorvusCorvax #36 Posted 08 January 2019 - 08:30 PM

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View PostCaptain_Underpants53, on 08 January 2019 - 05:53 AM, said:

 

As a bomber pilot I don't feel that heavy is head hunting and I would like to think it is making a major contribution to winning the game.  I call it Playing To Win!  I have had games where I've been shot down four times by the same guy.  It happens.  They won.

A human bomber pilot can dictate the pace and type of battle.  Even the newly-nerfed bombers can shift the tide of battle at any time.  The heavy fighter pilot MUST look first to its bomber-killer role if there is a human bomber on the red team.  Sure, you can ignore them, but I wouldn't.

 

And don't.  If I know where you're going to spawn, you'll be seeing me again in 10-30 seconds, because every minute you're not bombing is another minute where my bots might figure it out.  Or not.  But at least it won't be you winning it.  



Prenzlau #37 Posted 08 January 2019 - 09:44 PM

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Edited by Volier_Zcit, 09 January 2019 - 12:56 AM.

 

 

 

 


HazeGrayUnderway #38 Posted 08 January 2019 - 09:56 PM

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View PostAzis_, on 07 January 2019 - 11:53 PM, said:

 

So then you take a plane that can chase one or two bombers in game and hang out in the stratosphere all game, well then you get called out for head hunting, you get bored all game, and make little difference helping your team of all bots...????

 

 

They can call you whatever the hell they want, but if you prevent something like a B32 freely flying around and practically single-handedly flip critical caps by itself, then you did your part.  If that's what you don't like doing, then don't take the planes nor duties that entail.  Just don't complain about how that OP Specialized B32 is flipping all the caps by itself while someone could have stopped it.

View PostCorvusCorvax, on 08 January 2019 - 08:30 PM, said:

A human bomber pilot can dictate the pace and type of battle.  Even the newly-nerfed bombers can shift the tide of battle at any time.  The heavy fighter pilot MUST look first to its bomber-killer role if there is a human bomber on the red team.  Sure, you can ignore them, but I wouldn't.

 

And don't.  If I know where you're going to spawn, you'll be seeing me again in 10-30 seconds, because every minute you're not bombing is another minute where my bots might figure it out.  Or not.  But at least it won't be you winning it.  

 

​It's also easy to isolate where the Bomber would prefer to go.  Normal caps, even airfields with easy to destroy and very spread out targets aren't ideal bomber targets.  It's the targets that have the medium and heavy armored targets, as well as massive, tough buildings.  Industrial, Rocket, Bomber call-in sites are ideal Bomber targets.  Those critical caps are also the ones that tend to have their buildings more clumped together, so a B17, B32 run is devastating.  It's what I learned was the most efficient use of my time in a bomber and use that experience with heavy fighter use.

 

Dropping those massive bomb loads from a B17, B32 on a straw hut and having those very long reloads is a waste.

View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 08 January 2019 - 07:07 AM, said:

 

Until it runs into a B-17 which has more firepower in its tail than the 209V4 has in its nose

 

​There is also B17G and B32 "Broadsiding" and the amount of MGs they can present can be scary.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway, 08 January 2019 - 10:07 PM.


Captain_Underpants53 #39 Posted 08 January 2019 - 10:31 PM

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Edited by Volier_Zcit, 09 January 2019 - 12:55 AM.

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Azis_ #40 Posted 08 January 2019 - 10:42 PM

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View PostHazeGrayUnderway, on 08 January 2019 - 01:56 PM, said:

 

They can call you whatever the hell they want, but if you prevent something like a B32 freely flying around and practically single-handedly flip critical caps by itself, then you did your part.  If that's what you don't like doing, then don't take the planes nor duties that entail.  Just don't complain about how that OP Specialized B32 is flipping all the caps by itself while someone could have stopped it.

 

 

That is why I rarely if ever fly those planes. The planes I chose to fly I use them as they are intended, just happens that those planes are not best suited for chasing bombers.


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