191 replies to this topic

[Perrigrino]

GonerNL, on 11 December 2019 - 09:20 AM, said:

 

The devblog also says so :

 

We do not consider: aircraft model and configurations (such as Specialist), the presence of any consumables or equipment, Premium Account, the players’ win ratios, “karma” (number of recent wins or losses), specific accounts, etc.

 

Hola Gnome!

 

Curious, where did you see the part about "we do not consider..."? Cant find in wowp global wiki. If it's in Dev's Blog, yes, that was after Blindfold said Dev's coming out with new blog re: Match Maker, and that, as you rightly pointed out -"Karma" would not be part of the "newly reconfigured match maker". That was the plan.

 

And as Moonrider pointed out the Wiki page was last modified in Dec of 2018. 

 

So it appears that while they are saying - NO MORE KARMA in the Dev blog, WG is also explaining how KARMA works on the Wiki page concurrently- at the same time! Don't know about others experiences recently, but it seems to me that KARMA has come back- perhaps reworked into some other spiritual practice. 

 

Maybe, as has been pointed out, it's just a matter of the Wiki page not being kept up to date (?)

 

Also, as pointed out by Blindfold earlier, the Dev's are always working on MM (?), and we the public are not always informed of their decisions- sometimes years later. 

 

Regardless, I leave it up to them to clarify. Why have a wiki page? - just to mislead the public? Their responsibility to shovel out the information, and maintain clarity and accuracy. I'm just a lowly ignorant consumer who doesn't know any better. I went to wiki looking for info on what to do to get certain medals, points, etc. The Dev, blogs are also dated and information there is not always relevant. So begs the question- where do we go to get the most up to date accurate information? The SS (Support Services) has directed me, numerous times in various tickets, to various escoteric posts in the EU Forum, Na Forum. They have yet to direct me to the other Forums, but that may still happen, working on my Mandarin.- che che!

 

 

 

[GonerNL]

Perrigrino, on 11 December 2019 - 11:09 AM, said:

Curious, where did you see the part about "we do not consider..."? Cant find in wowp global wiki. If it's in Dev's Blog, 

 

Yep, dev blog : https://worldofwarplanes.com/news/devblog_matchmaker_209/

 

Perrigrino, on 11 December 2019 - 11:09 AM, said:

but it seems to me that KARMA has come back- 

 

Nah, if it was back I wouldn't have so many losing streaks ...

 

Edited by GonerNL, 11 December 2019 - 11:04 AM.

[Trauglodyte]

GonerNL, on 11 December 2019 - 09:20 AM, said:

 

The devblog also says so :

 

We do not consider: aircraft model and configurations (such as Specialist), the presence of any consumables or equipment, Premium Account, the players’ win ratios, “karma” (number of recent wins or losses), specific accounts, etc.

 

 

Configuration quality (i.e., Stock, Elite, Specialist) should 100% be considered.  I can't speak for anyone else but I'm growing tired of it being 2:1, 3:1, 4:1, 2:0, 3:0, and 4:0, in terms of specialization.  I don't think that they should group players, based upon the flag.  Rather, their should be some logic about grouping people based upon configuration quality and the presence of specialized gear.  Can't tell you how many games I've lost, simply because one side was so dominated by higher quality players AND planes.  Bad enough that we've got to deal with garbage AI bots.  Adding more fuel to the fire isn't cool.

[GonerNL]

Trauglodyte, on 11 December 2019 - 02:22 PM, said:

Can't tell you how many games I've lost, simply because one side was so dominated by higher quality players AND planes.  

 

That is my biggest gripe at the moment.

Not just a few, but so many battles are unbalanced as hell because of what you mention. 

Added to that is the unbalance in plane types (multiroles vs turn fighters) and human ace bombers (flights even!) being balanced with bot GA ?!

[White_Widow18]

For anyone interested in reality instead of whatever nonsense this dude is peddling.. Seriously.. how many ancient/outdated places and how many games -other- than WoWP can a person cut/paste from with no actual links to? It's a great way to try to defame the game though Perri... I have to wonder what your motivation is though.

https://worldofwarplanes.com/news/devblog_matchmaker_209/

Edited by Stygian_Alchemist, 11 December 2019 - 06:47 PM.

[SkyWolf__WM]

GonerNL, on 11 December 2019 - 08:34 AM, said:

 

That is my biggest gripe at the moment.

Not just a few, but so many battles are unbalanced as hell because of what you mention. 

Added to that is the unbalance in plane types (multiroles vs turn fighters) and human ace bombers (flights even!) being balanced with bot GA ?!

 

I want to go back to waiting 15 minutes in queue for each battle. THAT was fun.  ​

[Trauglodyte]

SkyWolf__WM, on 11 December 2019 - 09:27 PM, said:

 

I want to go back to waiting 15 minutes in queue for each battle. THAT was fun.  ​

 

That's all fine and good.  I don't know that it is a horrible thing.  Rather, what I'd say is that when one team has an OWSS flight and two other specced planes, giving them 3 players with over 55% win rate, that is a massive challenge.  But, in the 17 games that I've played, just tonight, I've yet to have a specialist plane, on my side.  I've had PLENTY, on the opposing side, though.  Now, tell me how that is ok.  I don't need anymore character so this grind against bad MMing isn't necessary.

 

EDIT:  Oh look, my 8th game, tonight, with multiple specialists w/ none on my side.  Yeehah!  And, in that one, they had a top tier human.  Look, the MMing in all of these games is bad.  With bots being as wildcards as they are, the human community doesn't need something to add to the overall angst and drudgery.  It simply cannot be that hard to code OR that game breaking of a change.

 

EDIT 2:  3rd game in a row with no specced planes but the other side has them in multiples.

Edited by Trauglodyte, 11 December 2019 - 11:13 PM.

[trikke]

SFMY and I saw a few examples of stacked specs on one side only today.   

 

and it was usually on our side, so we weren't complaining much

 

but... it just doesn't look very fair to the non-specialized team

 

WG, please remove the spec wings...  it might be too intimidating for new folks, and might not be helping with player retention

[White_Widow18]

trikke, on 11 December 2019 - 05:13 PM, said:

SFMY and I saw a few examples of stacked specs on one side only today.   

 

and it was usually on our side, so we weren't complaining much

 

but... it just doesn't look very fair to the non-specialized team

 

WG, please remove the spec wings...  it might be too intimidating for new folks, and might not be helping with player retention

.... That... No.

So then they'd just get roflstomped and have no idea why? They'd not know to avoid you... nothing... that sounds like the best idea I've heard to -lower- player retention.. *blinks* I'm just, I'm actually shocked -anyone- would suggest -that- it is -that- bad of an idea as far as I'm concerned.

How about instead they balance spec vs. spec team to team and if there aren't two specs to go against your flighted pair... well.. I guess you can wait in queue longer or get an all bot match.

Editing to add: I'm not even mad.. I just.. am shocked by the level of -bad- that idea would be in practice.

Edited by Stygian_Alchemist, 11 December 2019 - 11:45 PM.

[Trauglodyte]

I do want to add that being specced doesn't mean that 1) you've got your plane maxed out or 2) that you're good.  I've stomped some spec stacked teams.  Well, my team and I stomped some multi-specced teams.  What I would say is that it is a pretty damning thing, especially to new players.  I don't know that I knew what the wings icon even meant, at first.  And, I surely didn't understand the ramifications of enhancing or calibrating equipment, until someone posted something about a month ago.  I just kind of figured that they were good and that I sucked.  Knowing that the spec capability uber enhances your plane, it does really put a bad taste in the mouth of the player on the losing end of the bad MM game.

[White_Widow18]

Trauglodyte, on 11 December 2019 - 06:37 PM, said:

I do want to add that being specced doesn't mean that 1) you've got your plane maxed out or 2) that you're good.  I've stomped some spec stacked teams.  Well, my team and I stomped some multi-specced teams.  What I would say is that it is a pretty damning thing, especially to new players.  I don't know that I knew what the wings icon even meant, at first.  And, I surely didn't understand the ramifications of enhancing or calibrating equipment, until someone posted something about a month ago.  I just kind of figured that they were good and that I sucked.  Knowing that the spec capability uber enhances your plane, it does really put a bad taste in the mouth of the player on the losing end of the bad MM game.

Which is exactly why MM should take spec into account

[SkyWolf__WM]

Trauglodyte, on 11 December 2019 - 07:37 PM, said:

I do want to add that being specced doesn't mean that 1) you've got your plane maxed out or 2) that you're good.  I've stomped some spec stacked teams.  Well, my team and I stomped some multi-specced teams.  What I would say is that it is a pretty damning thing, especially to new players.  I don't know that I knew what the wings icon even meant, at first.  And, I surely didn't understand the ramifications of enhancing or calibrating equipment, until someone posted something about a month ago.  I just kind of figured that they were good and that I sucked.  Knowing that the spec capability uber enhances your plane, it does really put a bad taste in the mouth of the player on the losing end of the bad MM game.

 

But just because a plane is specialized doesn't mean that it is CORRECTLY specialized or that a neo maxi zoom dweebie like me ain't flying it. 

[trikke]

it's just an idea.     

 

there are superpilots driving un-specced planes every hour minute of every day

 

it would def be less intimidating to new pilots.     

 

it's just an idea

[White_Widow18]

trikke, on 11 December 2019 - 09:30 PM, said:

it's just an idea.     

 

there are superpilots driving un-specced planes every hour minute of every day

 

it would def be less intimidating to new pilots.     

 

it's just an idea

I know, and like I said.. not even mad... just.. something in me -completely- recoils from that. That would feel like.. I dunno.. if on World of WarCraft I couldn't see the level of what I'm considering killing.. I just... nope.. riding the nope train all the way to blankthatville.

I do appreciate it and I deffo think -something- needs done about the whole situation. I just think getting MM to properly balance teams is the appropriate way to go.. the idea of removing notification of the possible strength of an enemy just made me (once again) feel like a cat being petted the wrong way haha!

Promise though, not mad! <3

Edited by Stygian_Alchemist, 12 December 2019 - 04:54 AM.

[Captain_Underpants53]

I don't really care about the Spec VS non-Spec argument.  Probably because all my bombers are Spec.

 

But I do care about the ultra-weird MM in some battles.  Tonight I had two separate and  specific battles where one side had 4 lower Tier planes to the other sides 2 higher Tier and 2 lower Tier.  Guess which side won in those battles.  I was the loser side and then the winner side so I guess I broke even but neither battle fit my definition of fair.

 

I think this might have happened because both battles involved a flight on one side.  I've noticed before that the MM really doesn't do a good job of balancing when flights are involved.

[SkyWolf__WM]

Trauglodyte, on 11 December 2019 - 05:45 PM, said:

 

That's all fine and good.  I don't know that it is a horrible thing. 

 

That's because you never waited 15 minutes for a battle. It was not "fine" or "good". It hoovered. It WAS a horrible thing.  

[trikke]

SkyWolf__WM, on 12 December 2019 - 08:26 AM, said:

That's because you never waited 15 minutes for a battle. It was not "fine" or "good". It hoovered. It WAS a horrible thing.  

 

those were the dark times...    many pilots didn't make it out of there.       

 

my cynical side said WG wasn't making as much money with fewer battles, but the MM was pretty even-handed

 

I believe that the MM would feel more fair if we had more players.     I cannot believe that's not WG's highest priority

 

 

SA, I'm out of plus 1s.     I owe ya. <3

[White_Widow18]

trikke, on 12 December 2019 - 08:07 AM, said:

 

those were the dark times...    many pilots didn't make it out of there.       

 

my cynical side said WG wasn't making as much money with fewer battles, but the MM was pretty even-handed

 

I believe that the MM would feel more fair if we had more players.     I cannot believe that's not WG's highest priority

 

 

SA, I'm out of plus 1s.     I owe ya. <3

I do think more players would help. Sometimes I think that they need to.. I dunno.. give you a token at some point during the newbie tutorial for a "free" spec + zero silver cost base gear for the plane you pop that token on. Give the newbies a way to -really- get into the fight on a more fair playing field. Maybe not award that though til they get at least a T5 plane? I dunno.. weird idea and just one I've been kicking around in the back of my head.

[Perrigrino]

A lot of discussion in these 4ums re MM and game design and something I was recently listening to on the radio, particularly in light of what Fortnite was doing, was plainly revealed by a former developer/programmer. He pointed out something that numerous people have suspected, mentioned, elaborated on, and I include one exmple below, but there are many. Just have to look:

 

http://www.techaddic...-addictive.html

 

Addiction By Design

These manipulative tactics often apply to the mechanics of video games too. Games big and small have psychologists and behavioural scientists on hand to help them understand such techniques. And what exactly are these techniques? Perhaps the most widely discussed is creating a virtual 'Skinner Box' based on the theory by BF Skinner. He argued that the frequency of activity is linked to reward. Therefore, games are made to compel you to carry on button-mashing in order to achieve something. Experience points that will build your character, for example, or higher scores that will unlock new levels. It's the same philosophy applied to slot machine gambling.

These types of strategies have existed in some shape or form since the very beginning of video games. In fact, you wouldn't really have any kind of game, video or otherwise, without them. But the problems begin to arise when they are misused. When they aren't there to be compelling and entertaining but want to addict you. When they try to keep you playing, and playing, and playing in order to increase their advertising revenue or the possibility that you'll buy add ons. Sadly, this is something we are seeing more of in the age of online gaming and smartphone apps.

Jonathan Blow, creator of the game Braid, puts it brilliantly. He says: "I believe that games are important to the future of humanity [but] I think a lot of modern game design is actually unethical... they are predicated on player exploitation."

 

As numerous players/customers have pointed out, SPECIALIZATION, and it's attendent reintroduction of major GRINDING likely fulfils a number of purposes, some for the client, and others for the host- especially the monetary ones. Stay tuned for more....

Edited by Perrigrino, 13 December 2019 - 09:54 AM.

[White_Widow18]

Perrigrino, on 13 December 2019 - 03:41 AM, said:

 

I know exactly what to get you for Christmas, we should all chip in and buy you some shares in Yunnan Tin Group. Yup... perfect gift for a gentleman like you.