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MM Match Maker Devs Patent

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anonym_hCfsgfvsRDFf #121 Posted 15 January 2019 - 05:37 PM

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I don't understand why I have to wait over a minute just to get a team of bots. Why does it take so long?

Perrigrino #122 Posted 15 January 2019 - 08:27 PM

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View PostDouble_O7, on 15 January 2019 - 05:37 PM, said:

I don't understand why I have to wait over a minute just to get a team of bots. Why does it take so long?

 

Where u been? Read the Patch notes?

 

Ever onward,

 

Much attention has been shifted onto the thinking that goes into the make up of the game, what I sometimes refer to as the model requires "Modelling". And here is an excellent example of that "THINKING" from WOT wiki, so not directly relevant, but instructive :

 

Vehicle TierEdit

Vehicle tier is not taken into consideration when balancing teams. This is a common misconception among players. For example, under the current rules a tier 8 medium can be matched against a tier 7 heavy tank. The only relevance of vehicle tier is to determine the battle tier (vehicle tier and battle tier not same thing)

However, the top tanks of each team have the same vehicle tier due to the current balancing rules.

The vehicle tier should be taken into consideration as it reflects a preordained operating range (wow!) of a vehicle also known as classification. The range of each tier gradually increases with technology and tiers can overlap. Your 7 heavy can feel reasonably confident his encounter with a medium 8 has a 50% chance of victory, because their operating ranges overlap."

 

That last statement : Your 7 heavy can feel reasonably confident his encounter with a medium 8 has a 50% chance of victory, because their operating ranges overlap..." is problematic because there is no other information provided to back up such a claim. I think it's safe to say that it's pure conjecture. The comparison sounds horizontal/linear, not curved, vertically. What about orders of magnitude in differences, exponential increases. T7 tank player has 50% chance of victory over T8 tank player? Gambling with percentages/numbers that DILBERT came up with? The accuracy of such a statement is suspect. In all fairness, statements like these are made for general information, to give players an idea of how to think of the match maker and subsequent matches formed. But again, it also gives a glimpse into the thinking of the modeller, designer, architect (s).

 

From Ships wiki there's this:

World of Warships

World of Warships is a naval action MMO, dipping into the world of large-scale sea battles of the first half of the twentieth century. Epic battles rage across the oceans of the world in order to claim victory among teams comprised of the greatest representatives from the era of multi-ton marine giants.

In order to achieve victory in battle, players must employ a wide range of strategies in a variety of tactical decisions. Sudden ambushes, cunning flanking attacks, open confrontation and "head-on" assaults — captains must strive to find an ideal way to deliver a decisive blow at the enemy.

Tactical diversity in World of Warships comes from the inclusion of many different classes of warships, including: aircraft carriers, capable of providing remote air support and striking targets at extreme range; colossal battleships that project power across vast swaths of ocean; light and heavy cruisers with the capability to quickly respond to changing battlefield conditions; and stealthy, agile destroyers"

 

 

The modellers "believe" (ordained ?) that Tactics are what is required to overcome the ever increasing odds, the disparity in vehicle type, class, tier, and the FLight combinations, Specialization, Gold ammo, etc. And, in all honesty, there is a CONTEST to be had, but for a game that keeps touting balance, would like to see a bit more of that happening. Not going the other way. I understand and respect what Russia had to go through and their sacrifice in the Great Patriotic War, and that without their sacrifices things would have turned out very differently in WW II, but can't help wondering how much of the underdog ethic, overcoming insurmountable odds, is applied to the construction of this CONTEST called World of Warplanes?

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by Perrigrino, 15 January 2019 - 09:42 PM.


Perrigrino #123 Posted 31 January 2019 - 05:23 AM

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addaed some changes for perspective, names have been changed to protect the anonymous:

 

https://worldofwarsh...tune/#campaigns

 

We’re continuing our series of articles, intended to provide you with as much information as possible regarding the reworked aircraft carriers.

"The first article covered the basics you need to know in order to get to grips with the new carrier gameplay.

Today, we'll tell you about the main changes made to the Tech Tree, matchmaker, upgrades, and Commander Skills.....

 

Game balance is always one of the hottest topics. It's important to understand that it's impossible to set up the optimal balance conditions during tests, because the test server has significant differences in comparison to the main server (other game conditions, no statistics, the majority of opponents are bots). Over the course of several months, after the release of reworked carriers, (vehicles?) it’s possible that further changes will be made in terms of aircraft parameters and the number and types of squadrons; but rest assured that when we do so, we'll rely on the feedback and support of our players...

 

These words are from the patch notes to the New Aircraft guide/patch notes-WoWS. Amazing right! Of course not everyone was thrilled, but that's life. What struck me were the words, a kind of an introductory discussion,  pointing in a direction with some kind of idea in mind, forthcoming, hopeful, somehwat interserting….,  did I say informative.- souded more vague. I particualry liked the part about:

"Today, we'll tell you about the main changes made to the Tech Tree, matchmaker...…..

  but rest assured that when we do so, we'll rely on the feedback and support of our players".

 

https://worldofwarsh...tune/#campaigns

 

Now I really gotta check my goggles.... first few flights were :wonkY", but I syspect there wil be lot of that, and complaining, as we get use to the new balance adjustment, that will be implemented for us in WoWP, and interesting to see how time adjusts the stats- his piece of transparency would be inavaluable- because aside from the complaining, there too many brilliant minds out here, in WOWP to mention, plus I think from your statement about whom you utilize for testing - BOTS." -might cause alarm. Seeing the analysis for human effort, without names, would be helpful. May lead to better outcomes -BALANCE ( PLAYER pr may go up/ or down) but need more data crunchers.

 

 

 


Edited by Perrigrino, 31 January 2019 - 05:55 AM.


CorvusCorvax #124 Posted 02 February 2019 - 01:42 AM

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View PostPerrigrino, on 31 January 2019 - 05:23 AM, said:

addaed some changes for perspective, names have been changed to protect the anonymous:

 

https://worldofwarsh...tune/#campaigns

 

We’re continuing our series of articles, intended to provide you with as much information as possible regarding the reworked aircraft carriers.

"The first article covered the basics you need to know in order to get to grips with the new carrier gameplay.

Today, we'll tell you about the main changes made to the Tech Tree, matchmaker, upgrades, and Commander Skills.....

 

Game balance is always one of the hottest topics. It's important to understand that it's impossible to set up the optimal balance conditions during tests, because the test server has significant differences in comparison to the main server (other game conditions, no statistics, the majority of opponents are bots). Over the course of several months, after the release of reworked carriers, (vehicles?) it’s possible that further changes will be made in terms of aircraft parameters and the number and types of squadrons; but rest assured that when we do so, we'll rely on the feedback and support of our players...

 

These words are from the patch notes to the New Aircraft guide/patch notes-WoWS. Amazing right! Of course not everyone was thrilled, but that's life. What struck me were the words, a kind of an introductory discussion,  pointing in a direction with some kind of idea in mind, forthcoming, hopeful, somehwat interserting….,  did I say informative.- souded more vague. I particualry liked the part about:

"Today, we'll tell you about the main changes made to the Tech Tree, matchmaker...…..

  but rest assured that when we do so, we'll rely on the feedback and support of our players".

 

https://worldofwarsh...tune/#campaigns

 

Now I really gotta check my goggles.... first few flights were :wonkY", but I syspect there wil be lot of that, and complaining, as we get use to the new balance adjustment, that will be implemented for us in WoWP, and interesting to see how time adjusts the stats- his piece of transparency would be inavaluable- because aside from the complaining, there too many brilliant minds out here, in WOWP to mention, plus I think from your statement about whom you utilize for testing - BOTS." -might cause alarm. Seeing the analysis for human effort, without names, would be helpful. May lead to better outcomes -BALANCE ( PLAYER pr may go up/ or down) but need more data crunchers.

 

 

 

 

Their verbiage hurts my head.

Edited by CorvusCorvax, 01 December 2019 - 05:17 PM.


Perrigrino #125 Posted 07 February 2019 - 04:08 PM

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from :

http://wiki.wargamin...rld_of_Warships

 

 

Protected Matchmaking

It is my understanding that new players are protected from highly experienced players (seal clubbers) in matches through a certain level or number of games. It should be mentioned somewhere.

Protected MM added - see Account Leve
 
http://wiki.wargamin...atapult_Fighter
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


Perrigrino #126 Posted 07 February 2019 - 04:12 PM

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Account Level 1
Coop_battle_wows.png

Number of battles required to advance to next level: 1 (Total battles: 1)

All players start their World of Warships journey at Account Level 1, which grants them access to Co-Op Battles. New captains will be pitted against computer AI-controlled ships as they discover the basics of gameplay.

Account Level 2...

Account Level 15

Icon_27.png

Reward for achieving this level: 50x Damage Control Party II (While active, instantly repairs any module incapacitations, fires, and floods.), 25x Repair Party II (While active, restores a fixed percentage of a ship's hit points each second.), 25x Hydroacoustic Search II (Detects all enemy ships and torpedoes within the specified radius, regardless of obstacles (such as smoke screens or islands).), 25x Smoke Generator II (While active, generates a smoke screen that blocks line-of-sight for both enemies and teammates.), 25x Torpedo Reload Booster II (When used, torpedo reload time is significantly reduced.), 25x Catapult Fighter II (While active, a fighter plane circles the ship providing additional protection from enemy aircraft by engaging incoming fighters and bombers.), 25x Engine Boost II (While active, increases a ship's speed by a fixed percentage.), 25x Defensive AA Fire II (While active, damage per second of large caliber anti-aircraft guns increased.), 25x Spotting Aircraft II (While active, a spotter plane circles the ship providing enhanced main battery firing range.), 25x Surveillance Radar II (While active, detects all enemy ships within the specified radius, regardless of obstacles (such as smoke screens or islands).), 25x Main Battery Reload Booster II (When used, main battery reload time is significantly reduced.)

Players wishing to experience the challenge of Clan Battles must first attain Account Level 15. Once they do, they'll have the ability to join their Clan on the battlefield, queuing up as a group to challenge others on their server's Clan Rating leader boards. Also at Level 15, players may begin to use Training Rooms to hone their skills

 

 


Perrigrino #127 Posted 07 February 2019 - 04:14 PM

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couldn't paste the rest. Some kinda bug telling me too much info, pictures, and not enough carrots.  But always nice to see what's on other side of the hedge.

Edited by Perrigrino, 07 February 2019 - 04:16 PM.


Perrigrino #128 Posted 08 February 2019 - 12:16 AM

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Started this "discussion with the developers" some months ago, with not one developer from WG jumping in, but I did find interesting tid-bits from all over the internet. And for those I am truly grateful. Wasn't sure where this discussion would go, which rabbit hole to go down, but it has been fun and informative. 

 

For those who may have missed some of the more juicier bits,

  • Wargaming has tried using Player Profiles in MM, but unsuccessfully. -See WoT Wiki
  • Some of the Game Modes employ more than one Match Maker
  • MM is a derivative of someone's idea of a balanced match, and then voted on, and tested less.
  • PRNG is deterministic, in that it creates repeatable sequences that look random.
  • As far as the structure of the Matches- pitting vehicles of different sizes (classes) and Tiers and types less so, there does not appear to be any Guiding principles. Had battle last night in T8 with my Bomber on one side and 3 human Bombers on the other. These Lopsided, overly out-weighted matches have to go. 
  • The word "BALANCE"  is used /misused so often in this game and other titles it mystifies me, to the point of... (6. is one of my favs):

 

Monday, March 7, 2011

Barthes - (i) Operation Margarine; (ii) Myth Today

 

Barthes, Roland. “(i) Operation Margarine; (ii) Myth Today.” From Durham, Meenakshi Gigi, and Douglas Kellner. Media and Cultural Studies: Keyworks. Malden, Mass: Blackwell Publishers, 2001, 99-106.

Taken from Mythologies, Barthes' examination of how bourgeois societies assert values in their cultural productions

(i) Notices a trend in film, fiction, and advertising - certain things (institutions like the army, products like margarine) are first critiqued in regards to their drawbacks to the point of dismissal before being exalted at the close.

(ii) Here's how these "myths" work for the petit-bourgeoisie:

  1. Inoculation - acknowledge accidental evil in an institution to conceal its principal evil
  2. Privation of history - Remove the history of the object, leaving it to merely be enjoyed without wondering where it came from
  3. Identification - Can't imagine the Other. Can only blind himself, ignore and deny, or else transform him into something else. If he can identify with nothing in the Other, he calls it exotic, thus transforming the Other into an object.
  4. Tautology - A distrust of language, rejected because it has failed, leads to the dead and empty tautology: i.e. "because that's how it is.
  5. Neither-Norism - Stating, balancing, and ultimately rejecting two opposites, allowing one to flee from an intolerable reality.
  6. The quantification of quality - Intelligence, artistic experience, leisure have all been economized, so that their experience is balanced by the cost of a ticket.
  7. The statement of fact - Myths tend toward proverbs. Common sense provides the foundation for a truth that is formed by the arbitrary values of the ruling order.
Essences - Bourgeois ideology tends to develop the products of history into essential types thus obscuring its own historical process.
Scales - These essences are also weighed in relation to each other to support the values of the ruling order.

Big problem: if we try to locate the very meaning at the heart of an object we will liberate it but destroy it. If we acknowledge its full weight we respect it but it remains mystified.
Conclusion: we are doomed to speak excessively about reality, "seeking a reconciliation between reality and men, between description and explanation, between object and knowledge."
 

 


Edited by Perrigrino, 08 February 2019 - 05:17 AM.


Perrigrino #129 Posted 08 February 2019 - 12:26 AM

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Not my words but here's a better version, as I could not do justice to R. Barthes:

 

"Barthes’ discourse titled “Operation Margarine” principally focuses on how the “Established Order” is able to maintain its control over people by being self-critical in regards to petty issues, thereby keeping the populace content and blind in regards to the larger evils posed. He cites specifically the army and the church, and links it to an ad for margarine (one that would not be unfamiliar today) with the intent of showing how “a little ‘confessed’ evil saves on from acknowledging a lot of hidden evil.” (Barthes. p42) His point is well-made and certainly is still very much applicable to our present situation. As he says, the “Established Order” as one might term the global system (and the players within the system, government and international businesses) effectively neutralizes discontent by giving air to some frustrations, focusing on well-known (almost proverbial) issues (such as people on cell-phones in cars) as a way to avoid going into more serious ills (the effects of ‘the grid’ on society). Its the sort of realization that makes one think ‘gee that Big Brother is a real rascal’ but the psychology behind this can be applied further, perhaps even to the extent that this particular way of thinking is a condition of life (and even more probable, of modern life especially).

It is never a surprise when the “Established Order” dupes the great majority of people, it’s almost expected and indeed is played out repeatedly in film and television, as well as literature. Those who aren’t taken in view themselves as being “conscience” or aware of the situation at hand. However, it becomes evident that there are many levels of this sort of consciousness. Even those who claim to be ‘aware’ allow themselves to be made content by less than what they desire. The person who buys free-trade coffee and doesn’t shop at Walmart still has an ipod, so to speak. They insist, in fact, that they are in rebellion against the system (as opposed to everyone else who feels the same way but allow themselves to be satiated easier) though they continue very much to grease its wheels in certain respects. They allow themselves to be bought off from actually going the lengths that one must do in order to change any grievous issues, and in fact that free-trade coffee (and the ensuing feeling of accomplishment in fighting the ‘man’) becomes a sub-conscience justification for continuing to allow things to continue as they are.

Does it go further? Could one extend this sort of psychology further and question whether life itself requires this sort backwards thinking? We have a tendency to lambaste life for all of its sorrows (whether in song, film, or literature) but then confidently conclude that for all the bad times (which seem to make up an extensive list) life is still worth it, if only for the sake of itself. In fact, that film which depicts so much sorrow will end with a happy ending where everyone is so ecstatic that they do not even think of how low they had sunk. Perhaps the inherent contradictions of life, especially in our modern world, force us into this manner of thought. We shouldn’t be surprised then that something which might go that deep into the well (I’m obviously am hypothesizing, I’m not a certified psychologist) is so effective in allowing the “Established Order” to prevail.

 

https://analyzethisu...tion-margarine/

 

and yes, I eat margarine, but prefer butter, being a hypocrite to a greater or lesser extent, or sometimes just blindly following along. ( no disrespect to you BF, just ironic)


Edited by Perrigrino, 08 February 2019 - 12:56 AM.


Perrigrino #130 Posted 01 December 2019 - 07:02 AM

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Brought this back from the dead due to recent activity perusing WoWP Wiki to find how points are disbursed and I find this:

 

Matchmaking (WoWP)

 
Jump to: navigation, search

Matchmaking refers to the way players are distributed in battles. Matchmaking works on basis of various different aspects, being:

  • Aircraft tier
  • Aircraft type (and model)
  • Karma
  • Amount of human/ bot players
  • Flights

 

Imagine my surprise when we were told, by Blindfold and Dev's, that KARMA, IS NO LONGER USED! And now:

 

 

Karma

Behind the scenes the servers keep track of how you get put into battles by a system called Karma. Karma means that each time you get put into a battle of your own tier along with lower tiers, you lose a point. Each time you go into a battle with higher tier aircraft, you gain a point. Normally this should level out randomly, but when you've played a lot of battles with higher tier aircraft in a row you'll end up with a high positive score. Once this score goes above a certain level (not sure of the level, I think 6) the matchmaker will force you into a battle with lower tiers. The Karma is now 5, so now you continue with random matchmaking until you go above the treshold again. This also goes the other way around: if you play a lot of tiered-down battles, you are sure to face higher tiers eventually.

 

So were back to the question, Just How much of our profiles is used in Match Making?- and Devs, thanks for the denials...

Now, sure, reasonable explanation as to why it was denied previously, but less than a year later, Karma is back, no big news, no other mention of how MM tracks individuals and places them. Just some vague notions to appease the masses. Where's the BALANCE?

 



Captain_Underpants53 #131 Posted 01 December 2019 - 08:49 AM

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Imagine that.  We were inadvertently misinformed. 
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vcharng #132 Posted 01 December 2019 - 10:56 AM

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View PostPerrigrino, on 01 December 2019 - 07:02 AM, said:

This also goes the other way around: if you play a lot of tiered-down battles, you are sure to face higher tiers eventually.

 

Interesting, so according to this sentence a T5 fighting in a T5/T4 game is OFFICIALLY known as downtiering.

In other words, "face higher tiers" is officially known as uptiering.

 



Moonrider #133 Posted 01 December 2019 - 11:42 AM

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View PostPerrigrino, on 01 December 2019 - 02:02 AM, said:

Brought this back from the dead due to recent activity perusing WoWP Wiki to find how points are disbursed and I find this:

 

Matchmaking (WoWP)

 
Jump to: navigation, search

Matchmaking refers to the way players are distributed in battles. Matchmaking works on basis of various different aspects, being:

  • Aircraft tier
  • Aircraft type (and model)
  • Karma
  • Amount of human/ bot players
  • Flights

 

Imagine my surprise when we were told, by Blindfold and Dev's, that KARMA, IS NO LONGER USED! And now:

 

 

 

You didn't check the modification timestamp for the page? Looks to me like the page was never updated to reflect changed conditions. Wikis are only as current as the authors make them.
Sez right at the bottom: "This page was last modified on 6 December 2018 at 12:17"


Slap a mask on a drunk and you're going to have trouble. It's like having a live reenactment of anonymous forum comments.


CorvusCorvax #134 Posted 01 December 2019 - 05:28 PM

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View Postvcharng, on 01 December 2019 - 10:56 AM, said:

Interesting, so according to this sentence a T5 fighting in a T5/T4 game is OFFICIALLY known as downtiering.

In other words, "face higher tiers" is officially known as uptiering.

 


Keep banging that drum.  Somebody cares.



CorvusCorvax #135 Posted 01 December 2019 - 05:32 PM

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View PostCaptain_Underpants53, on 01 December 2019 - 08:49 AM, said:

Imagine that.  We were inadvertently misinformed. 


That's the most shocking part about this whole thing.  Actually, the most shocking thing is how purposefully-opaque WG has been.  I think Perregrino is correct in the suggestion that the Russian self-image as the underdog gives rise to a lot of the MM and bot programming that we have today.  Overwhelming odds, or super-pilot behavior is to be expected, but if you fly Soviet-era planes, you get an advantage because they are "better".  Like in Tanks, where the Soviet tanks always seem to have a very slight advantage at-tier.



Captain_Underpants53 #136 Posted 01 December 2019 - 05:44 PM

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View Postvcharng, on 01 December 2019 - 05:56 AM, said:

Interesting, so according to this sentence a T5 fighting in a T5/T4 game is OFFICIALLY known as downtiering.

In other words, "face higher tiers" is officially known as uptiering.

 


LOL.  Way too funny!

 

 

:rolleyes:


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Stygian_Alchemist #137 Posted 01 December 2019 - 09:40 PM

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I remember reading this. A year ago. I remember thinking at the time that this thread would be a great case study for paranoid psychotics and their enablers.

Still think that.





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