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Let's talk about the matchmaking...


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Xr901 #1 Posted 02 December 2018 - 01:08 AM

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Okay, I've said it before, I'm not the biggest fan of some of the matchmaking changes that have been made to the game. People have always, and will always, complain about matchmaking, but seriously, some of these changes are NOT improvements. I can understand why you made some of them like making games always 2 tier (the 30/70 bot split) even if the majority of the community hates it, but some of them... Seriously? 

1. why did you stop the system from trying to balance plane types? Sure, abandon it at the end if it can't but why doesn't it actually try? The number of games I've seen where it puts all the human GAs/bombers on one team and only gives the enemy team light fighters and multiroles is just stupid. Why does one team get 3 bombers and the other no bombers or GAs on a map with 2 plants? This is aside from the other random problems that can, and always have been able to happen like, in a 4 player match one team getting 2 light fighters and the other getting a bomber (especially now the B-32) and a heavy.

 

2. Why does it sometimes assign all of the human top tier players to one team, leaving the other team with none? Usually this happens when one team has a bottom tier flight and the other doesn't but not exclusively. Yes, in theory this can balance out a flight when there isn't one on the enemy team but it's not that simple. I've been on both sides of this, being in the down-tiered flight and on the enemy team and it's a mixed bag... Yeah, I and the people I usually fly with are pretty good, and maybe can be balanced out somewhat by that, but I've equally also seen a lot of under performing flights of casual or less experienced players flying in flights where the down-tiered team just gets (um... pooped... is that polite enough?) on by the enemy team. I have however also seen games where 2 flights from different tiers are matched against each other, and the top tier flight gets an extra top tier plane while the bottom tier flight only has bottom tier players, and it is still possible for a top tier flight to go up against 2 (though no longer just 1) bottom tier solo players. Even more bizarrely, though admittedly also rarely, I have also seen it  assign one team 2 top tier planes while the other is stuck with all bottom tier planes.

 

I don't know about the other people here, maybe I'm part of only a small subset, but I think that some of these things do need to be addressed (along with bugs). Personally I want to see more work on this even at the expense of less new content because I believe it will make the game more playable... even if it means british multiroles take longer to appear... (but please, british muliroles too... me want! :child:)



Leadlooser #2 Posted 02 December 2018 - 02:44 AM

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Agreed.  The MM is a bit wonky.

Also the algorithms that control bot (mis)behaviour may be equally wonky.  HHJ would agree. 

Furthermore, I might add, map selection may be random, but it really hurts when flying slow planes on 3-objective wide open maps like 'Pacific Ocean,' (I think).

As we've experienced wonky bots, MM and map selection, human players are forced into particular planes for each tier to deal with the haphazard nature of these variables.  A product of this is the mid-tier prevalence of the Spitfires - I too personally have a hanger full of them.  It is reasonably fast, well armed, maneuverable, and has a reasonably high ceiling.  It's not the best, but one could do worse and it can handle most of the variables adequately.  On the other hand, it seems more "play-style-specific" planes display a greater range of both success and failure.

All in all, I hope we can roll with the punches and maybe WG will attempt to give its players a better experience.



GonerNL #3 Posted 02 December 2018 - 10:03 AM

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Nah. It really needs some fixes.

Especially match-ups like where your team gets the stupid/lazy bot in a B-32 and the other team gets some ace in a death-star RB-17 or B-32. Or uptiered flights of HoF specialists on one team and noob/mediocre pilots on the other.

Oh and I like a challenge, but the one-shot Yaks are ridiculous. Was that a change ? There are a lot of 'm lately ...


Edited by GonerNL, 02 December 2018 - 10:05 AM.

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Xr901 #4 Posted 02 December 2018 - 05:08 PM

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View PostGonerNL, on 02 December 2018 - 10:03 AM, said:

Nah. It really needs some fixes.

Especially match-ups like where your team gets the stupid/lazy bot in a B-32 and the other team gets some ace in a death-star RB-17 or B-32. Or uptiered flights of HoF specialists on one team and noob/mediocre pilots on the other.

Oh and I like a challenge, but the one-shot Yaks are ridiculous. Was that a change ? There are a lot of 'm lately ...

 

 

On the Yaks, yeah there was, but not directly. They changed it so now there's also a standard team makeup template. In mid tiers it's 2 fighters, 2 heavies, 1/2 bombers, 1/2 GAs, and the rest multiroles. In every game now you get 5-6 multiroles, which makes the kill x plane type missions a b***h because they're never for multiroles, and means u see a lot of the derp yaks. Another change I'm not particularly fond of.
 



CorvusCorvax #5 Posted 02 December 2018 - 07:07 PM

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And the MRFs seem to know where you are, and at higher tier, do NOT leave you alone.  I have experienced some very tenacious MRFs in my Me-262 - I kill them using BnZ, and in about 30 seconds, there they are again, harassing me.  Because bots don't have a respawn timer.  Sometimes, they bring a heavy with them.  Then, I have to fight two expert bots.

 

Nice.



Wombatmetal #6 Posted 02 December 2018 - 10:00 PM

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I think the main problem with MM is lack of players. I think it would work a lot better if it had players to work with

 

That's another can of worms, but that's WOWP



Perrigrino #7 Posted 03 December 2018 - 06:11 AM

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View PostXr901, on 02 December 2018 - 01:08 AM, said:


Okay, I've said it before, I'm not the biggest fan of some of the matchmaking changes that have been made to the game. People have always, and will always, complain about matchmaking, but seriously, some of these changes are NOT improvements. I can understand why you made some of them like making games always 2 tier (the 30/70 bot split) even if the majority of the community hates it, but some of them... Seriously? 

1. why did you stop the system from trying to balance plane types? Sure, abandon it at the end if it can't but why doesn't it actually try? The number of games I've seen where it puts all the human GAs/bombers on one team and only gives the enemy team light fighters and multiroles is just stupid. Why does one team get 3 bombers and the other no bombers or GAs on a map with 2 plants? This is aside from the other random problems that can, and always have been able to happen like, in a 4 player match one team getting 2 light fighters and the other getting a bomber (especially now the B-32) and a heavy.

 

2. Why does it sometimes assign all of the human top tier players to one team, leaving the other team with none? Usually this happens when one team has a bottom tier flight and the other doesn't but not exclusively. Yes, in theory this can balance out a flight when there isn't one on the enemy team but it's not that simple. I've been on both sides of this, being in the down-tiered flight and on the enemy team and it's a mixed bag... Yeah, I and the people I usually fly with are pretty good, and maybe can be balanced out somewhat by that, but I've equally also seen a lot of under performing flights of casual or less experienced players flying in flights where the down-tiered team just gets (um... pooped... is that polite enough?) on by the enemy team. I have however also seen games where 2 flights from different tiers are matched against each other, and the top tier flight gets an extra top tier plane while the bottom tier flight only has bottom tier players, and it is still possible for a top tier flight to go up against 2 (though no longer just 1) bottom tier solo players. Even more bizarrely, though admittedly also rarely, I have also seen it  assign one team 2 top tier planes while the other is stuck with all bottom tier planes.

 

I don't know about the other people here, maybe I'm part of only a small subset, but I think that some of these things do need to be addressed (along with bugs). Personally I want to see more work on this even at the expense of less new content because I believe it will make the game more playable... even if it means british multiroles take longer to appear... (but please, british muliroles too... me want! :child:)

 

Completely agree. Very good observations. Blindfold has told us in Questions to Devs that an explanation of MM is on the way.... oooowweee! 

 

 



GonerNL #8 Posted 03 December 2018 - 11:16 AM

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View PostWombatmetal, on 02 December 2018 - 11:00 PM, said:

I think the main problem with MM is lack of players. I think it would work a lot better if it had players to work with

 

Nope.

Even on busy hours and/or during events with say 7 or 8 players per side, it makes a complete mess of balancing.  That's what I see on EU server ...


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Captain_Underpants53 #9 Posted 03 December 2018 - 11:21 AM

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View PostPerrigrino, on 03 December 2018 - 01:11 AM, said:

 

Completely agree. Very good observations. Blindfold has told us in Questions to Devs that an explanation of MM is on the way.... oooowweee! 

 

 

And it's on the way, on the way, on the way........................................:sceptic:


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blindfoId #10 Posted 03 December 2018 - 02:57 PM

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View PostPerrigrino, on 03 December 2018 - 09:11 AM, said:

 

Completely agree. Very good observations. Blindfold has told us in Questions to Devs that an explanation of MM is on the way.... oooowweee! 

 

 

 

Should be ready this week. 

Captain_Underpants53 #11 Posted 03 December 2018 - 06:05 PM

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View PostblindfoId, on 03 December 2018 - 09:57 AM, said:

 

Should be ready this week. 

 

Well if that's the case, I apologize for the sarc.
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SlappedbyRommel #12 Posted 03 December 2018 - 07:30 PM

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I agree with the info above MM really needs work and not just the two tier spread if this becomes like WOT where it is a 3, 5, 7 spread players will vacate the game no point in a 4 verse a 6 etc. especially if people specialize their plane and know how to use it. I have been on booth ends and being on the low end truly sucks plus its a time stealer from actually trying to win the game when it comes to missions.

BirdForce #13 Posted 04 December 2018 - 07:31 AM

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I was thinking of reinstalling the game.. Hoping MM would be better and the AI pathing/balance was better since I last played earlier this year.. But.. Does not look like much has changed.. Based on the OPs post.. It's actually worse..

Perrigrino #14 Posted 05 December 2018 - 07:02 AM

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View PostSlappedbyRommel, on 03 December 2018 - 07:30 PM, said:

I agree with the info above MM really needs work and not just the two tier spread if this becomes like WOT where it is a 3, 5, 7 spread players will vacate the game no point in a 4 verse a 6 etc. especially if people specialize their plane and know how to use it. I have been on booth ends and being on the low end truly sucks plus its a time stealer from actually trying to win the game when it comes to missions.

 

Exactly! Which is why SPECIALIZATION is a balance breaker. But it is a money maker.... especially for premium planes where we have to earn back what we already paid for... Oh wait, Christmas is coming! WoWp might gives us our stuff back....

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Soylent_Red_Isnt_People #15 Posted 09 December 2018 - 10:43 PM

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View PostXr901, on 02 December 2018 - 03:08 PM, said:

In every game now you get 5-6 multiroles, which makes the kill x plane type missions a b***h because they're never for multiroles, and means u see a lot of the derp yaks. Another change I'm not particularly fond of.

And they aren't even "good" multiroles useful to a team, just less turny fighters that are often merely fodder for player 'Spits or Zeros when not one-shotting heavies, if not spending matches in "vengeance at all costs" mode.

Yet when those planes are of the actual ordnance hauler MRF models, they usually score lowest of all AI planes on the team (typical for bot Thunderbolts).

 

What I think needs to change is that the bot lineup varies by map, types and models being assigned in two or three plane lots with a marked "national" flavor.

For North, German or Russian planes; on Rome, German planes; on Pacific, Japanese planes; on Asia, British or Chinese or Japanese planes; on Plateau, American planes; etc etc etc.

 

Having a sufficient variety of planes available in the tech trees doesn't equate to every match needing to be a hodge-podge team filled with as many different plane models as is possible.

Like with Warships all that "as many as is possible because variety" mix does is ensure each vehicle is unlikely or unable to overcome its particular weakness (if any, i.e. Pancakes) outside of a same model division/flight.

 

 

 

View PostCorvusCorvax, on 02 December 2018 - 05:07 PM, said:

and in about 30 seconds, there they are again, harassing me.  Because bots don't have a respawn timer.  Sometimes, they bring a heavy with them.  Then, I have to fight two expert bots.

And a majority of the time, when you check the after match report, it's pretty much all the "vengeance" bots accomplished during the battle; almost (if not) exclusively chasing a player instead of trying to capture or whatnot.


Edited by Soylent_Red_Isnt_People, 12 December 2018 - 04:47 AM.

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