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Does WG care about balancing issues?

Blance J8M I-210 B-32

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Twindwarfs #1 Posted 23 November 2018 - 08:22 AM

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I'm relatively new to this game and I just find some planes are too weak/strong, does WG actually care about the balancing?

 

First, my favorite tier 8 premium J8M. It is so unique and fun to play, I never regret purchasing it. But after hundreds of games with J8M, I have to say it is weaker than other tier 8s. The guns are inconsistent, it overheats within several shots. Historically it is designed to intercept bomber but in the game, you will get shred by rear guns within seconds, especially when bombers players are human. Theoretically, it is still possible to intercept bombers, but practically it is extremely difficult. Surely, it is not a plane for newbies but it still doesn't perform well under best pilot's control in most cases.

 

Second, I-210. I like the play style of Mig line so I decided to grind it out. Mig-3 at tier 5 is a nice plane but I-210 at tier 6 is really discouraging. It has worse DPS than many tier 5s, including Mig-3, and overheats quickly. Usually, if a plane has great DPS then it overheats quickly, like IJN Ki line. If a plane has worse DPS then it shouldn't have the overheating problem, like US fighter line. But I-210 has low DPS with fast overheating weapons, I don't quite understand the logic behind the balancing of this plane.

 

Now, B-32. I just feel it is so broken right now. Put aside its extremely powerful bombs, this plane can easily kill a tier 6 heavy fighter if you have a high-level gunner and know how to use the rear guns manually. Even a same tier heavy fighter has to be very careful when hunting B-32. Fighters and multi-roles have almost no chance 1v1 B-32. As a bomber, it drops bombs and flips caps extremely fast. Okay, I suppose that's acceptable. But it also wipes out everything nearby, as a bomber??? wt*???

 

All the above are my personal subjective opinions, but what do you think? and more importantly, what does WG think?

 

 


Edited by STJ_12, 23 November 2018 - 08:25 AM.


SpiritFoxMY #2 Posted 23 November 2018 - 08:29 AM

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Wargaming will tell you that they have bigger fish to fry. Or they monitor each planes' stats and nothing is wrong... or something.

 

Anyway, the I-210 is infamous as a speedbump in the MiG tree. You'll either have to free-XP past it or just suffer through it. It's in the same class as Bf109F and P-51A as undergunned tier 6s.

 

There are balance issues up and down the line but Wargaming really only hits the most egregious offenders with rebalances (Russian Bias -17).


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Jazz_4 #3 Posted 23 November 2018 - 11:18 AM

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plus the specialist planes has  bit of advantage right now if I were you I would do the Japanese heavy missions and also go to the uk heavies and get the tier 5 uk heavy 

Soylent_Red_Isnt_People #4 Posted 23 November 2018 - 06:19 PM

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View PostSTJ_12, on 23 November 2018 - 06:22 AM, said:

does WG actually care about the balancing?

Short answer; not particularly, no.

Medium answer; WG isn't a North American publisher or developer with a primarily NA playerbase - they're a Russian publisher/developer with a significant Russian playerbase and a strong European following.

 

 

One thing to realize is that a significant proportion of the Russian playerbase for any MMOBA may not even be playing from their own homes/apartments as would be typical for much of North America.

- Instead they're playing at work or a kiosk during downtime (if any), at an internet cafe, or likewise on a PC belonging to someone else.

- Or, they're playing via console (if that's an option) with the same limitations.

- Quite a few Europeans subscribers probably have similar play considerations.

 

Goes without saying that these computers aren't always going to be what players in North America would accept as a decent home system, let alone a dedicated gaming rig; although their internet as a whole seems more solid.

Don't forget to factor in you're also dealing with a significantly different education system, approach to media, and general prejudices environment.

Taken as a whole they don't really seem to have enough time, and if they have the time, sufficient inclination for more simulation-oriented gaming.

 

 

Another factor is this; anyone who has ever played on a foreign, test, or global server for an MMOBA title can relate any number of anecdotes about the marked difference between NA and Russian players.

- It's all about in your face extreme close range encounters, the faster the better, trying to maximize their own kills and damage while actively masking the fire of everyone else before rinsing & repeating.

- That there might even be objectives in a particular match or as a regular part of the game itself takes at best a very distant second to all of the above, if considered in the first place.

- I'm not sure if they don't understand or simply don't care about the concept of a daily win bonus, and instead expect to make up the difference via spamming matches or just using moderate cash infusions.

 

OP premiums are the big catch, knowing such vehicles are unlikely to be significantly nerfed/brought into line with tech tree progression examples because they cost real $$$$.

The more P2W any premium is the better; and never, ever, point out such in their chat or forum.

 

High tier is the other big thing, as you don't often see a lot of low- or mid-tier matches on many foreign servers with as short of a queue time, let alone population, except maybe when a new line comes out.

Skins and visual customization, the more the better, with anything too outlandish probably not extreme enough, because arcade trumps simulation.

 

Obviously any tech tree progression vehicles are meant to be either skipped as quickly as is possible (or paid through) and kept only if absurdly strong for whatever current meta exists in the title.

 

 

Only very rarely will you see any custom matches involving Russian players; they have no interest in equal footing, and seem to play PvE (badly) when no other alternative for the same payout exists.

It's all about the PvP, and if they have such a repeated significant advantage that they bully others right out of playing a title the general consensus is pretty much "oh well scrub, GTFO".

 

Team-killing anyone nearby doing a bit too well for their liking, i.e. endangering their own payout in damage and kills, is quite common with Russians in PvP (and occasionally even PvE....) matches.

 

 

 

Long answer short; tech tree progression vehicles basically don't matter in the larger scheme for keeping the attention of the primary playerbase at the best of times, let alone when operating on a shoestring.


Edited by Soylent_Red_Isnt_People, 23 November 2018 - 06:36 PM.

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LMG #5 Posted 23 November 2018 - 06:26 PM

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Sadly there's a severe lack of balancing in the game atm with no sign of that changing anytime soon. I personally want the tier 5-6 german GAAs to get a bit of help so they're somewhat competent at ground pounding. I was quite glad when I noticed it was getting a buff a few patches back... until I realized they only increased its top speed when boosting and the boost time. It's still severely underwhelming when it comes to ground pounding, anti-air capabilities and even self-defense with a very lackluster reargun. Meanwhile you get something like the Pancake that has virtually no flaws and excels at pretty much everything it does :amazed:


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buddahcjcc #6 Posted 23 November 2018 - 11:11 PM

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View PostSTJ_12, on 23 November 2018 - 08:22 AM, said:

I'm relatively new to this game and I just find some planes are too weak/strong, does WG actually care about the balancing?

 

First, my favorite tier 8 premium J8M. It is so unique and fun to play, I never regret purchasing it. But after hundreds of games with J8M, I have to say it is weaker than other tier 8s. The guns are inconsistent, it overheats within several shots. Historically it is designed to intercept bomber but in the game, you will get shred by rear guns within seconds, especially when bombers players are human. Theoretically, it is still possible to intercept bombers, but practically it is extremely difficult. Surely, it is not a plane for newbies but it still doesn't perform well under best pilot's control in most cases.

 

Second, I-210. I like the play style of Mig line so I decided to grind it out. Mig-3 at tier 5 is a nice plane but I-210 at tier 6 is really discouraging. It has worse DPS than many tier 5s, including Mig-3, and overheats quickly. Usually, if a plane has great DPS then it overheats quickly, like IJN Ki line. If a plane has worse DPS then it shouldn't have the overheating problem, like US fighter line. But I-210 has low DPS with fast overheating weapons, I don't quite understand the logic behind the balancing of this plane.

 

Now, B-32. I just feel it is so broken right now. Put aside its extremely powerful bombs, this plane can easily kill a tier 6 heavy fighter if you have a high-level gunner and know how to use the rear guns manually. Even a same tier heavy fighter has to be very careful when hunting B-32. Fighters and multi-roles have almost no chance 1v1 B-32. As a bomber, it drops bombs and flips caps extremely fast. Okay, I suppose that's acceptable. But it also wipes out everything nearby, as a bomber??? wt*???

 

All the above are my personal subjective opinions, but what do you think? and more importantly, what does WG think?

 

 

 

Yeah well the Stuka was a dive bomber and here it doesnt even GET bombs

Cenotaph #7 Posted 24 November 2018 - 01:34 AM

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View Postbuddahcjcc, on 23 November 2018 - 03:11 PM, said:

 

Yeah well the Stuka was a dive bomber and here it doesnt even GET bombs

 

Because the one in game is the Anti-Tank variant...
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trikke #8 Posted 24 November 2018 - 09:26 AM

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Soylent, great post...  and sobering to read

 

so many differences between folks in different parts of the world

 

i'm overly generalizing, of course       there are pilots right here on NA that have the exact same mindset 


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HazeGrayUnderway #9 Posted 26 November 2018 - 09:03 PM

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View PostSoylent_Red_Isnt_People, on 23 November 2018 - 06:19 PM, said:

Short answer; not particularly, no.

Medium answer; WG isn't a North American publisher or developer with a primarily NA playerbase - they're a Russian publisher/developer with a significant Russian playerbase and a strong European following.

 

 

 

 

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Edited by HazeGrayUnderway, 26 November 2018 - 09:08 PM.


Mercsn #10 Posted 27 November 2018 - 08:56 PM

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Short answer, "No."  They don't care about balancing each plane for its tier.  The bigger problem is that when you're talking about planes at tier 7+, the bots skew everything in actual matches.  If you get an HF on the enemy team with an Ace skill bot pilot, he'll get aim that is uncanny and wreck you and your bots.  So, it doesn't really matter whether your plane is balanced on paper, or not, since you'll be fighting ai that is most definitely not balanced in the matches.

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comtedumas #11 Posted 27 November 2018 - 10:57 PM

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The B-32 was designed to be a HEAVY bomber, it is historically accurate.  That’s the problem with aircraft in this game, ad the get to higher tiers they also become far more capable than they were before.  

 

As designed, it was supposed to have quad turrets everywhere.  

 

And the B-32 had the last combat of the war, and performed extraordinarily, here is a description of the combat.  

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/the-b-32-waged-americas-last-air-battle-world-war-ii-after-24440

 

At 7 AM on the morning of the 18th, two B-32s set out for Tokyo again, each plane loaded with three additional photo-recon specialists drawn from the 20th Reconnaissance Squadron. The extra crew normally flew aboard F-7s, a reconnaissance version of the B-24. 

By 2 PM the two B-32s completed their runs over Tokyo at altitudes of ten and twenty thousand feet when they noticed Japanese fighters rising from their aerodrome towards them. 

In fact, records show fourteen A6M Zero fighters and three N1K-J Shiden (“Lightning”) fighters launched to intercept from Yokusuka air base. The Shiden was one of the best Japanese fighters of the war, capable of exceeding 400 miles per hour and well-armed with four fast-firing 20-millimeter cannons, though it had relatively poor performance at high-altitude. 

Nonetheless, the aircraft swarmed over the larger B-32s, their machineguns and cannons chattering. The ten .50 caliber machineguns on each bomber were soon spitting back curtains of lead in response. 

Both the bomber crew and fighter pilots on that last mission recalled what happened next . Screaming down from 12 o’clock high, Komachi raked the engine of the B-32 named Hobo Queen II with his 20-millimeter cannons and burst the plexiglass bubble of the top turret, wounding turret gunner Jimmy Smart. Another fighter strafed Hobo Queen’s fuselage, the rounds slicing through the plane and riddling the legs of aerial photographer Joseph Lacharaite. The wounded specialist began applying a tourniquet to his wounds, and fellow photographer Sergeant Anthony Marchione, a nineteen-year old Italian-American from the Bronx, helped move him to a cot. 

Suddenly, a cannon shell penetrated Hobo Queen’s fuselage and struck Marchione in the chest. The young man crumpled, bleeding from a big hole in his chest. Three crew members came to his aid, applying compression bandages and administering blood plasma and oxygen. 

Meanwhile, both B-32s entered a steep dive, their relatively high speed combined with the momentum gained from their greater weight allowing them to surge ahead of the Japanese fighters. Both managed to limp back to base by 6 PM that evening. Hobo Queen II was down one engine, had a damaged rudder and was pocked by thirty large holes in its fuselage. Lacharite would spend several years recovering from his wounds.” 

 

16-1 odds and they survived.  I think the B-32 is just fine as is, and I haven’t had a problem killing them when I have gone after them thus far.  


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Twindwarfs #12 Posted 27 November 2018 - 11:57 PM

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View Postcomtedumas, on 27 November 2018 - 10:57 PM, said:

The B-32 was designed to be a HEAVY bomber, it is historically accurate. 

I'm not talking about the model, surely the model is historically accurate. But the damage a B-32 can deal is insane. Just compare it with RB-17, which most people consider op, B-32 has better bombs, better turret damage, better turret firing angle, and I mean WAAAAAAY better. RB-17 has better altitude performance, speed, and turret range, these advantages are good but not as good as damage. Also don't forget RB-17 is one tier higher.

 

View Postcomtedumas, on 27 November 2018 - 10:57 PM, said:

 I think the B-32 is just fine as is, and I haven’t had a problem killing them when I have gone after them thus far.  

 

You have no problem killing it if it is played by a bot. Next time when you meet an excellent B32 player with everything enhanced, try to hunt him with your tier 7. Good luck!

 


Edited by STJ_12, 27 November 2018 - 11:59 PM.


ComradeZ #13 Posted 28 November 2018 - 12:20 AM

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View PostSTJ_12, on 23 November 2018 - 08:22 AM, said:

I'm relatively new to this game and I just find some planes are too weak/strong, does WG actually care about the balancing?

 

First, my favorite tier 8 premium J8M. It is so unique and fun to play, I never regret purchasing it. But after hundreds of games with J8M, I have to say it is weaker than other tier 8s. The guns are inconsistent, it overheats within several shots. Historically it is designed to intercept bomber but in the game, you will get shred by rear guns within seconds, especially when bombers players are human. Theoretically, it is still possible to intercept bombers, but practically it is extremely difficult. Surely, it is not a plane for newbies but it still doesn't perform well under best pilot's control in most cases.

 

Second, I-210. I like the play style of Mig line so I decided to grind it out. Mig-3 at tier 5 is a nice plane but I-210 at tier 6 is really discouraging. It has worse DPS than many tier 5s, including Mig-3, and overheats quickly. Usually, if a plane has great DPS then it overheats quickly, like IJN Ki line. If a plane has worse DPS then it shouldn't have the overheating problem, like US fighter line. But I-210 has low DPS with fast overheating weapons, I don't quite understand the logic behind the balancing of this plane.

 

Now, B-32. I just feel it is so broken right now. Put aside its extremely powerful bombs, this plane can easily kill a tier 6 heavy fighter if you have a high-level gunner and know how to use the rear guns manually. Even a same tier heavy fighter has to be very careful when hunting B-32. Fighters and multi-roles have almost no chance 1v1 B-32. As a bomber, it drops bombs and flips caps extremely fast. Okay, I suppose that's acceptable. But it also wipes out everything nearby, as a bomber??? wt*???

 

All the above are my personal subjective opinions, but what do you think? and more importantly, what does WG think?

 

 

 

No.

SpiritFoxMY #14 Posted 28 November 2018 - 09:03 AM

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View PostSTJ_12, on 28 November 2018 - 07:57 AM, said:

You have no problem killing it if it is played by a bot. Next time when you meet an excellent B32 player with everything enhanced, try to hunt him with your tier 7. Good luck!

 

I'll point out that Rei now has four Gabreskis on his B-32 now. 

 

Edit: Merely three. I miscounted


Edited by SpiritFoxMY, 28 November 2018 - 09:24 AM.

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Mercsn #15 Posted 01 December 2018 - 12:06 AM

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View Postcomtedumas, on 27 November 2018 - 04:57 PM, said:

The B-32 was designed to be a HEAVY bomber, it is historically accurate.  That’s the problem with aircraft in this game, ad the get to higher tiers they also become far more capable than they were before.  

 

As designed, it was supposed to have quad turrets everywhere.  

 

And the B-32 had the last combat of the war, and performed extraordinarily, here is a description of the combat.  

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/the-b-32-waged-americas-last-air-battle-world-war-ii-after-24440

 


 

 

As you point out, it was in use until the end of the war.  It's not that the OP is saying the model of turrets, etc isn't accurate.  What he's saying is that with the damage the turrets are capable of, combined with its zone flipping carpet bombing, it probably belongs at least at tier 8, for the exact reasons you describe. 

 

Also, the devs are seriously picky and choosy when it comes to modeling historical accuracy.  The FW-190 is a great example in this game.  It's a fairly terrible aircraft, especially the tier 5 A1.  The tier 7 (same tier as B-32) isn't much better because WG have taken an aircraft that was specifically designed as a high altitude bomber interceptor and removed the "high altitude" part of the equation, meaning that while it has strong guns, it can't do it's job (say, hunting down a B-32).

 

Really, the B-32 as it currently sits needs to be moved to tier 8.  As I pointed out with the FW (and as anyone can point out with many aircraft in this game), WG is not particularly interested in historical accuracy with regards to flight performance and aircraft capability.  It would maybe be interesting if the Bf-109F and G models still had access to their wing gondola guns or the P-51s still had access to their rockets.  But, as it sits, the B-32 needs to be detuned for balance or moved up a tier.


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Captain_Underpants53 #16 Posted 01 December 2018 - 04:28 AM

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The B-32 is fun to play, just like the RB-17 used to be.  I get shot down in mine plenty, though.  It is already slow for Tier VII.  At Tier VIII it would be crawling.

 

Usually when I get shot down it's because of teamwork by the opponents, whether bots or people.  Or the heavy flak.  They seem to have made it very susceptible to flak because of its size, I suppose.


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Cardinal604 #17 Posted 01 December 2018 - 09:33 PM

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View PostCenotaph, on 24 November 2018 - 01:34 AM, said:

 

Because the one in game is the Anti-Tank variant...

 

Luckily there are piles of tanks to shoot up... 

 

There are piles of in balances from planes to Match Maker to Maps I dont think WG gives two hoots about balancing.






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