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pilot skill 'marksman two' has a special ingredient


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wylleEcoyote #21 Posted 01 November 2018 - 09:13 PM

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View Postmnbv_fockewulfe, on 01 November 2018 - 08:10 PM, said:

 

Note: the lead indicator is still in the game with 2.0, you just can't see it anymore.

 

ANd im pretty sure if we could (via 3rd party tinkering with the client) see that circle, it would be a ban-able offense. I know it is in Warships.

Is this one of the reasons that old players are shedding much tears about how "the game was better in v1.x"

Edited by wylleEcoyote, 01 November 2018 - 09:16 PM.


mnbv_fockewulfe #22 Posted 01 November 2018 - 09:26 PM

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View PostwylleEcoyote, on 01 November 2018 - 09:13 PM, said:

 

ANd im pretty sure if we could (via 3rd party tinkering with the client) see that circle, it would be a ban-able offense. I know it is in Warships.

Is this one of the reasons that old players are shedding much tears about how "the game was better in v1.x"

 

Actually, it wouldn't be banned. I have this on first authority from the devs.

Returning the lead indicator is only a matter of turning it back on...on multiple levels. And to be honest, I was ok with the lead indicator being visibly removed. What I'm not ok with is making up for the fact by increasing bullet velocity and auto aim.


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trikke #23 Posted 01 November 2018 - 09:36 PM

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View PostSgtZak, on 01 November 2018 - 01:49 PM, said:

If I may respectfully disagree with your premise.  I do not dispute that something is happening with mm2.  I contend, if it is in game and part of a skill you can buy or earn, it is part of the design and working as intended.  Not a hack.  I'm not debating it's functionality, just that you have categorized it as a hack, I suppose, to assign a negative connotation to mm2.  It s a skill, plain and simple. Nothing more.  How it works I leave to you more erudite pilots.

 

please...  disagree with me!    it was an opening for a discussion!

 

oh, it's not a hack at all!    it's sanctioned by but Persha and WG, and i own dozens of pilots with MM2, because i know it's required for poor aimers like me

 

i love MM2 and auto-aim!   

 

but since it's so obvious to see vet's bullets follow you around corners, etc...   i'm just concerned that new folks quit earlier when they see it in action 

 

they think it's a hack, not me!


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LMG #24 Posted 01 November 2018 - 10:06 PM

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View Postmnbv_fockewulfe, on 01 November 2018 - 04:26 PM, said:

Actually, it wouldn't be banned. I have this on first authority from the devs.

Returning the lead indicator is only a matter of turning it back on...on multiple levels. And to be honest, I was ok with the lead indicator being visibly removed. What I'm not ok with is making up for the fact by increasing bullet velocity and auto aim.

 

I also prefer not having a lead indicator, makes me feel like I'm doing something right when I score multiple hits. Though to be honest I don't think I'd like having lower bullet velocity. People already complain enough about that on the German fighters that have to go through the first set of 30mm cannons because they're slow and short-ranged. And I can also see why they added the auto-aim, as playing without it on GAAs leads to quite a bit of frustration where you fire 50mm shells five times at a fighter in a head-on duel and they all miss because RNG, and its the main reason why I get as much accuracy as I can on all of them :amazed:. It might be unrealistic and could certainly be improved, but it does make the game feel better


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mnbv_fockewulfe #25 Posted 02 November 2018 - 01:03 AM

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View PostLMG, on 01 November 2018 - 10:06 PM, said:

 

I also prefer not having a lead indicator, makes me feel like I'm doing something right when I score multiple hits. Though to be honest I don't think I'd like having lower bullet velocity. People already complain enough about that on the German fighters that have to go through the first set of 30mm cannons because they're slow and short-ranged. And I can also see why they added the auto-aim, as playing without it on GAAs leads to quite a bit of frustration where you fire 50mm shells five times at a fighter in a head-on duel and they all miss because RNG, and its the main reason why I get as much accuracy as I can on all of them :amazed:. It might be unrealistic and could certainly be improved, but it does make the game feel better

I'll get more in depth later, but for now, low velocity can be counter by, 100% accuracy, realistic ROF, and higher damage per bullet. :)


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HarryVoyager #26 Posted 02 November 2018 - 11:36 PM

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To be honest, as a new player, I was more bother by the 'cone of fire' than the MM2 thing.

At this point I don't even believe the bullets are actually modelled; rather I suspect it uses a cone of probability model with graphical indicators.

On the US guns, we did try to outfit with the 20mm early (witness the Mustang MkIa) but it sounds like there was an error in the localization of the HS.404 that meant the US built ones were extremely unreliable, to the point that a function US 20mn wasn't available until the Mauser 214 based designs were fiddled during the Korea war.

The Navy did field some 20mm armed versions, but I don't believe they fielder them in large numbers, and suspect it was more driven by the kamikaze threat than getting a reliable build.

wylleEcoyote #27 Posted 03 November 2018 - 02:16 AM

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View Postmnbv_fockewulfe, on 01 November 2018 - 09:26 PM, said:

 

Actually, it wouldn't be banned. I have this on first authority from the devs.

Returning the lead indicator is only a matter of turning it back on...on multiple levels. And to be honest, I was ok with the lead indicator being visibly removed. What I'm not ok with is making up for the fact by increasing bullet velocity and auto aim.

 

I think i see the Dev's point.
Spoiler


As convoluted as it seems It is better from a player gratification standpoint.
Having a little "aim here to win" circle akin to late cold war era radar guided optics on biplanes that used iron sites.   never mind the limitless ammo and unjammable guns and hitpoints because .... #ArcadeShooterIsNotFlightSim. This is easy mode. and thats fine for when your little kid sibling is playing.

having to put some thought into leading your target ... and getting those hits because of your inherit and/or developed skills...

That is the quick fix of gratification that keeps players like me coming back.
 

 

Zaikadi #28 Posted 03 November 2018 - 03:29 AM

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trikke, the phenomenon you're writing about happened to me quite obviously last week. With my Zero, I was circling with a Tier V light fighter, and it managed to hit me even though it was never pointed at my plane. It's not enough to end my WoWp career, but I would certainly be happy if it didn't exist, since I didn't even know about it until this thread.

GonerNL #29 Posted 06 November 2018 - 10:00 AM

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View PostZaikadi, on 03 November 2018 - 04:29 AM, said:

With my Zero, I was circling with a Tier V light fighter, and it managed to hit me even though it was never pointed at my plane. 

 

At what altitude was that ?

I had the similar experience once and when asking about it, players pointed out the optimum altitude. The Zero performs well at 600 - 800 meters, so when you take it up to 1400 and start turning with Spits and 109's you are at a disadvantage ...


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trikke #30 Posted 06 November 2018 - 12:08 PM

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View PostHarryVoyager, on 02 November 2018 - 06:36 PM, said:

error in the localization of the HS.404 

 

made me look it up     interesting!    and good explanation at the bottom about US sticking with 50 cals instead of converting to 20mms

 

oh jeez...  "Some variations of the guns used on the Lockheed P-38 Lightning were produced by International Harvester."

 

no wonder i smell popcorn during a battle!


Edited by trikke, 06 November 2018 - 12:22 PM.

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poppavein #31 Posted 06 November 2018 - 05:22 PM

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A lot of non-typical industries were in on the war effort. For example:

During the Second World War, the 1911A1 was made by a number of manufacturers (not all of them arms-makers) including Colt, Remington-Rand, Ithaca, Union Switch and Signal, and Singer.”

 



V8Daniel #32 Posted 06 November 2018 - 06:54 PM

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As a new one around here (I joined WoWP, at 2015, mostly to play with my son, but left it aside, got back, and really get addicted only at the last two months), I have to say the MMII is very usefull to my P-38, because of the run-shoot-run tactic, when I have to start shooting at 720m; the spraying at this distance would make the cannon very uneffective if I didn't earn the MMII. It´s a little weird at the oval for light fighters, when it really looks like there is a magnetic effect.

The bombing accuracy upgrade for bombers pilots have a similar effect as the MMII. 

So:

new folks, do you see the auto-aim feature of the current pilot skill Marksman 2 as a reward for folks that have been here long enough to grind up to, or pay gold to accelerate to: - yes, but not  only. it makes the game more interesting, since the player increases hardware and pilots.

as a state-sanctioned hack-ish cheat? - well, since it's available for everyone, it's not cheating

or a goal to work toward to get for myself? - a goal to work for

new folks, would you consider staying with the game longer if:

the auto-aim was reduced drastically / eliminated

or keep it as it is, giving me a chance to better compete if i can attain MM2? - I will stay in the game until the day I die (a real death, I mean).

 

Thanks for asking us, the new ones. I also would like to know what the bots are thinking about this. Will they make a strike in order to their rights to have Marksman II?

 


Edited by V8Daniel, 06 November 2018 - 06:57 PM.


StoptheViolins #33 Posted 06 November 2018 - 07:58 PM

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Yes, it looks really really bad when a plane is facing 30 degrees off and magically hits my plane.   

trikke #34 Posted 06 November 2018 - 08:22 PM

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View PostStoptheViolins, on 06 November 2018 - 02:58 PM, said:

Yes, it looks really really bad when a plane is facing 30 degrees off and magically hits my plane.   

 

it happens everyday to me, but it rarely seems to happen to the guy i'm shooting at

 

i'll just assume it's happening to him too

 

it does look too obvious, doesn't it?    i wonder what could be done to at least cloak it a bit...


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Reitousair #35 Posted 06 November 2018 - 09:05 PM

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View Posttrikke, on 06 November 2018 - 01:22 PM, said:

 

it happens everyday to me, but it rarely seems to happen to the guy i'm shooting at

 

i'll just assume it's happening to him too

 

it does look too obvious, doesn't it?    i wonder what could be done to at least cloak it a bit...

 

Probably CSP (Client-Side-Prediction) at work.

 

On your end you're leading your shots perfectly.

 

Meanwhile, on his end your shots at turning at 45 degree angles to hit him or your nose is pointed nowhere near him.

 

Servers actually make a lot of stuff up to try and balance things out between what the client sees and what it sees. So you can see some pretty magical things that are completely normal on the other persons end. Marksman 2 (and the 5% bonus on the gunsight) basically increases the autoaim of your guns which means the servers will have you get RNGed slightly less.


I do fly Chinese aircraft a fair amount so... *ahem*

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I even made a custom skin for my IL-10M!

 


poppavein #36 Posted 06 November 2018 - 11:59 PM

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I didn’t know about this feature; now I have to respec my dogfighters to include it. 

 

Thanks!



mnbv_fockewulfe #37 Posted 07 November 2018 - 12:43 AM

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View PostReitousair, on 06 November 2018 - 09:05 PM, said:

 

Probably CSP (Client-Side-Prediction) at work.

 

On your end you're leading your shots perfectly.

 

Meanwhile, on his end your shots at turning at 45 degree angles to hit him or your nose is pointed nowhere near him.

 

Servers actually make a lot of stuff up to try and balance things out between what the client sees and what it sees. So you can see some pretty magical things that are completely normal on the other persons end. Marksman 2 (and the 5% bonus on the gunsight) basically increases the autoaim of your guns which means the servers will have you get RNGed slightly less.

 

What I hate most about 2.0

At least with the lead indicator, you knew someone was hitting you because their plane was pointed at the lead indicator. :sceptic:


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trikke #38 Posted 07 November 2018 - 12:39 PM

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really...  it's gotta go        and if it goes away for everyone, then that would be fair for everyone 

 

it should be easy to find some other kind of fairy magic dust to replace it, like 10% more explosive / fire starter


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nwlxn12 #39 Posted 07 November 2018 - 06:44 PM

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This has been an issue ever since they introduced client side processing and it is really annoying.  I don't believe this has anything to do with the marksman skill.  As described previously, it is just how you are seeing it on your screen, but on the other person's screen, his plane is positioned correctly to hit you.  Those that have been around when they first introduced CSP have seen this before and now it is turned on for everyone.  Makes it more difficult to fly defensively when you have to try to evade.

Edited by nwlxn12, 07 November 2018 - 06:45 PM.





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