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Canoso77 #21 Posted 22 September 2018 - 05:00 PM

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Lots of good replies!    Nice to know I don't have nightblindness.  :)  Alright, I've started upgrading equipment on the Wirraway and the LBSh, starting with reinforced skin.   From what I've read, the meta is to build on your plane's strengths, so I'll specialize them and try to make them tanks.    Is there strategy with using equipment to bolster a plane's weaknesses instead?

 

And mouse and keyboard is the way, then.  But I do miss take offs and landings (and bouncing other players who are taking off or landing).   Yes, I know, this game isn't really a flight sim...

 

In a GAA I will ram if the chance presents itself.   My first ram was an accident, and the Wirraway destroyed a nearly full hp F3F while taking only about 20% damage itself.  I cllpped wings with a FW 57 while flying an A5M.  The A5M went from full hp to about 10 hp left, and the FW's health bar didn't seem to budge.   I'm trying to learn boom and zoom LF now, so ram isn't my first option with those.  

 

And thank you for the help on the evasive actions.  I think I've been turning too much in front of the attacker, so I'm staying too long in front of them.  Looks like SpiritFox and Trikke's idea is to cover distance and not just be jinking around.  Of course, low tier planes are slow but I'll work on this.

 

Enjoying the game.  Lots to learn to see what works in the game mechanics.  And the supportive forum helps a lot, too.

 

 



SpiritFoxMY #22 Posted 23 September 2018 - 01:35 AM

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View PostCanoso77, on 23 September 2018 - 01:00 AM, said:

Alright, I've started upgrading equipment on the Wirraway and the LBSh, starting with reinforced skin.   From what I've read, the meta is to build on your plane's strengths, so I'll specialize them and try to make them tanks.    Is there strategy with using equipment to bolster a plane's weaknesses instead?

 

And mouse and keyboard is the way, then.  But I do miss take offs and landings (and bouncing other players who are taking off or landing).   Yes, I know, this game isn't really a flight sim...

 

In a GAA I will ram if the chance presents itself.   My first ram was an accident, and the Wirraway destroyed a nearly full hp F3F while taking only about 20% damage itself.  I cllpped wings with a FW 57 while flying an A5M.  The A5M went from full hp to about 10 hp left, and the FW's health bar didn't seem to budge.   I'm trying to learn boom and zoom LF now, so ram isn't my first option with those.  

 

And thank you for the help on the evasive actions.  I think I've been turning too much in front of the attacker, so I'm staying too long in front of them.  Looks like SpiritFox and Trikke's idea is to cover distance and not just be jinking around.  Of course, low tier planes are slow but I'll work on this.

 

Equipment preference depends a lot on playstyle and while in some cases reinforcing a strength is the most obvious choice, for others it isn't so straightforward. For example - I run Lightweight Wing Frame - a modification that improves turn time and rate of roll - on my A-5; a plane which isn't known for its turning capability. My reasoning is threefold. Firstly, the improved turn and roll helps me track violently evading targets through the boom. Secondly, it allows me to outturn heavy fighters and Thunderbolts with greater ease and thirdly, related to the second point, equipping any other equipment would have rendered me vulnerable to being hunted down and being outturned by said heavies and Thunderbolts. In a similar vein, you'll find a lot of recommendations for turn builds on the Mustangs for the same reason - it won't make you the most maneuverable thing in the sky but it enhances your advantages against some planes while sacrificing nothing against others.

 

I hated takeoffs and landings in War Thunder Arcade and the stupid touch n go capture mechanic in that game mode is why I never really enjoyed it compared to Warplanes. Jingles landings ahoy!

 

The basic rule of avoiding a head on pass is to ruin your opponents' angle of attack and forcing him to "twist himself into a pretzel" in order to hit you. Rapidly closing does that but I've seen people in Zeroes and Spitfires successfully evade a Boom by hitting the brakes and turning hard around the axis of the attack, effectively forcing an overshoot. If you're in a much slower plane and closing won't get you out of the line of fire fast enough, this can also be an option against a diving or boosting attacker. Won't work if he's coming from below though. Too easy to slow down and adjust aim.

 

The best way to learn how to avoid head ons is to play heavies. You'll quickly figure out what the most annoying bot/player moves are and you can then apply them yourself.


***

But a truce to this mournful story

For death is a distant friend

So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


Canoso77 #23 Posted 23 September 2018 - 03:35 AM

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Thanks, SpiritFoxMY.  I played Warbirds and their companion WW I game, Dawn of Aces, and Red Baron  II among others.  I never played War Thunder, since I was playing WoT at the time and I didn't like how WT's tank fighting was set.  

 

I see your reasoning on equipment.  Being able to outmaneuver anything you can't outrun is similar to the WoWS's strategy of being able to outrun anything you can't outgun.  Right now I'm just experimenting.  My Wirraway pilot just got his 4th skill point, so he has the bombing skill and now the protection skill for the bonus to the protection equipment.  The plane is still maneuverable enough to turn inside other GAA, and to catch other planes by surprise, which is what I really like about it.   So I'll experiment with it to see what works.

 

And thanks for the clarification on the head on pass.   I'll be practicing that tactic in the training room.   Does rolling the plane during evasive help much?   I see the bots and some live players roll when evading, but I'm wondering how effective it is with this game's mechanics.  

 

I've only played HF's a little so far, just the AO 192,   I didn't care for it much.  Too clumsy although it had nice speed.  It's bombs were very nice.  But I thought the multirole fighters were more fun.  I enjoyed the Skua and the Hurricane I more than the AO 192.  But now I'm reading the heavies should be doing more than ground attack, such as high altitude interception.  Any suggestions on which line of heavies to try?



Captain_Underpants53 #24 Posted 23 September 2018 - 04:00 AM

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View PostCanoso77, on 22 September 2018 - 10:35 PM, said:

Thanks, SpiritFoxMY.  I played Warbirds and their companion WW I game, Dawn of Aces, and Red Baron  II among others.  I never played War Thunder, since I was playing WoT at the time and I didn't like how WT's tank fighting was set.  

 

I see your reasoning on equipment.  Being able to outmaneuver anything you can't outrun is similar to the WoWS's strategy of being able to outrun anything you can't outgun.  Right now I'm just experimenting.  My Wirraway pilot just got his 4th skill point, so he has the bombing skill and now the protection skill for the bonus to the protection equipment.  The plane is still maneuverable enough to turn inside other GAA, and to catch other planes by surprise, which is what I really like about it.   So I'll experiment with it to see what works.

 

And thanks for the clarification on the head on pass.   I'll be practicing that tactic in the training room.   Does rolling the plane during evasive help much?   I see the bots and some live players roll when evading, but I'm wondering how effective it is with this game's mechanics.  

 

I've only played HF's a little so far, just the AO 192,   I didn't care for it much.  Too clumsy although it had nice speed.  It's bombs were very nice.  But I thought the multirole fighters were more fun.  I enjoyed the Skua and the Hurricane I more than the AO 192.  But now I'm reading the heavies should be doing more than ground attack, such as high altitude interception.  Any suggestions on which line of heavies to try?

I don't do well in the heavies but I have been shot down by enough of them to opine.  The Germans rule up to at least Tier 5.  I would recommend Protection and Marksman for that Ao 192.  No use putting lipstick on the pig unless you got skill points to burn.  I mean with maneuverability.  More speed helps too. 


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Canoso77 #25 Posted 23 September 2018 - 04:33 AM

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Thanks, Captain Underpants.  Well, I did elite the AO 192, and researched the FW 57, so I'll try that.  I'm not racing up the tiers just yet.  I'd like to get the basics down before moving on.   And no, no skill points to burn.  Just one German pilot working on his second skill point.  What do you recommend after tier 5?

Captain_Underpants53 #26 Posted 23 September 2018 - 07:55 AM

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The SE 100, premium, from France on Tier 5.  The P-38 line and more Germans.  The Me 292 gives my RB-17 fits.  The Pancake (US) does also.
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SpiritFoxMY #27 Posted 23 September 2018 - 08:22 AM

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View PostCanoso77, on 23 September 2018 - 12:33 PM, said:

Thanks, Captain Underpants.  Well, I did elite the AO 192, and researched the FW 57, so I'll try that.  I'm not racing up the tiers just yet.  I'd like to get the basics down before moving on.   And no, no skill points to burn.  Just one German pilot working on his second skill point.  What do you recommend after tier 5?

 

Eh... depends on what you mean by "recommend after tier 5"

 

If you're aiming for heavies, the Germans are generally considered the best all-around but suffer from a very steep learning curve once they hit tier 8 and the Me262. The thing is too fast for its own good, its guns are short ranged, slow firing and unreliable, and it really cannot maneuver worth a damn. Most people like the tier 9 and 10 though, although many consider the 262 HGIII to be a step down from the tier 9 HGII because of the loss of rockets and being forced to use the devastating but unreliable MK213/30s

 

The American Heavies are excellent at tier 5 and 6 - the P-38s are the most maneuverable of the Heavy Fighters, as well as being fast and carrying excellent ordnance and a single powerful 37mm to back up the .50cal. The problem is tier 7; the Tigercat is a controversial machine at best, and tier 10; the XF-90 is waaaaay too fast for its own good and turns like an ocean liner. But you are rewarded with one of the most overpowered airplanes in the game at tier 8 in the form of the XF5U Pancake

 

The British heavies are like big, fat, multiroles. The tier 5 Brokenfighter is... pretty broken although its been nerfed recently by the reduction in the elevation arc of its turret. The others are mediocre, having modest maneuverability, modest speed, modest altitude and massive ordnance. Like the German line, the tier 9 is actually considered better than the tier 10 although the Javelin has one of the best all-around performance of any of the three heavies.

 

Now, if you're asking for German airplanes... well, tier 5 - 7 is generally a low point for the German tech trees.

 

The tier 5 Focke Wulf 190 A-1 is a very unimpressive airplane with terrible maneuverability, average speed, weak weapons and meagre altitude, making it up only with an extended boost time and incredible roll rate. The tier 6 is incredible and is my personal plane of choice while the tier 7 is good but faces some very rough competition. The line then divides into the BVs which are very good at tier 8, superb at tier 9 and... odd at tier 10, and the Focke Wulfs which boast one of the funniest planes ever at tier 8 and then go downhill rapidly with the very mediocre tier 9 and the awful tier 10 Fw252.

 

The tier 5 Messerschmitt 109 Emil is borderline overpowered and is only held back by the even more overpowered Spitfire I. After that the tier 6 and 7 are generally disappointments, having terrible firepower on what would otherwise be stellar airplanes (though some people like them a lot). The tier 8 is good, then the tier 9 and tier 10 are considered the most powerful planes of their tiers.

 

The Heavies are actually pretty good until tier 6 with the Me410 which is the plane that makes its living charging people head on and DARING them to try to match it. Then at tier 7 things go pear shaped with the decent 109Z and the... bad... Me262 as I described above

 

The Attackers at tier 5 and 6 are just awful at worst... and stunningly mediocre at best. The Kanonevogel and Duck at tier 5 are slow and lack any form of explosive ordnance, relying on their guns to slowly shoot buildings apart. The Ju88P is the same. Then it takes off at tier 7 with the excellent Me265. The tier 8 329 is a little overshadowed by a lot of other airplanes at the tier but is a solid performer as is the tier 9. And the tier 10 is the plane of choice of many of the top players on the NA server.

 


***

But a truce to this mournful story

For death is a distant friend

So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


SpiritFoxMY #28 Posted 23 September 2018 - 08:28 AM

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View PostCanoso77, on 23 September 2018 - 11:35 AM, said:

And thanks for the clarification on the head on pass.   I'll be practicing that tactic in the training room.   Does rolling the plane during evasive help much?   I see the bots and some live players roll when evading, but I'm wondering how effective it is with this game's mechanics. 

 

Rolling helps a bit in that it can mess up the game's autoaim coefficient a bit at long to medium ranges. It can also help you dodge a ram but I generally play Focke-Wulfs and those planes spin like tops so the effectiveness of rolling on other airplanes is open to dabate.

 

I'm speaking of aileron rolls here, just to be clear. Barrel Rolls are excellent defensive maneuvers IF the other guy is coming straight at you at high speed (see: hitting the breaks and turning hard). If he's on your tail, it gets a lot messier and it would only work if he was charging at you at high speed as well.


***

But a truce to this mournful story

For death is a distant friend

So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


trikke #29 Posted 23 September 2018 - 03:12 PM

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i f you can commit to learning heavies, you will reap the benefits when we get the brand-new "Bomber Escort Mode", coming soon

 

we believe that this will be the only way to wrestle the game meta away from the turn-and-burners, which can run the table in most battles today

 

the Spit family, Zeros and Kis will still be effective, but just not game breakers anymore, as higher altitudes chip away at their maneuverability 

 

it's been a LF game until now, but the winning strategy will be forced to change and adapt soon

 

heavies have to think ahead for their next move, like chess or billiards         LFs are more like ping pong... quick twitch kiddies of all ages excel in lights


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Canoso77 #30 Posted 23 September 2018 - 03:29 PM

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Thanks, Captain and SpiritFox.  Yes, I've read lots of good things for this game about the P-38 and the Pancake.  I'm not looking at any one national line, just looking for fun planes that do their historical job.  I'd read that in real life, the ME-262 was indeed too fast, giving its pilots very limited time to aim when intercepting bombers.  Interesting to see that situation replicated here.   This game is certainly an odd mix of arcade and simulator.   And there was an earlier thread discussing the gun armed GAA aircraft concerning the cannons generally not being as effective as bombs against ground targets.  Perhaps if we had tanks in deployed formations to shoot at the cannon armed planes would be more fun.  

 

And yes, I was speaking about aileron rolls.  I haven't been able to make a plane do a barrel roll or even go into a spin yet.  The times I've stalled a plane (got airspeed below stall speed), the plane just seems to plummet rather than go into a spin.  The aileron roll doesn't throw my gunnery off because the target plane performing the aileron roll isn't really moving out of the gunsight very much.  It's not hard to follow its motion and stay on target.  Barrell roll or a spin would be a more effective evasion.  

 

A surprise to me is that the P-39 is considered a good fighter in this game.  In most of sims I've played, it's easy to for it to go into an accelerated stall during a tight turn and then enter a spin.  Great for ground attack, though.  But it's sort of a mix of turn and burn and zoom and boom in this game from what I've seen on YouTube.

 

(edit)  Hi, Trikke.    That's good to hear.  I saw a mention of the escort mode but don't know anything about it.    I tried the KI-43-1, which is a very fun plane in Warbirds even with just two 12.7mm guns, but I was just vaporized constantly in it in this game without being able to contribute.  So that's why I'm here, asking questions.   Oddly, the A5M works great for me, so I'm sure I'm doing something wrong with the KI-43-1.    I've been trying the turn and burn fighters first, now beginning with the zoom and boom AR 80 and then will be going into the ME 109's.


Edited by Canoso77, 23 September 2018 - 03:37 PM.


SpiritFoxMY #31 Posted 23 September 2018 - 05:03 PM

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View PostCanoso77, on 23 September 2018 - 11:29 PM, said:

And yes, I was speaking about aileron rolls.  I haven't been able to make a plane do a barrel roll or even go into a spin yet.  The times I've stalled a plane (got airspeed below stall speed), the plane just seems to plummet rather than go into a spin.  The aileron roll doesn't throw my gunnery off because the target plane performing the aileron roll isn't really moving out of the gunsight very much.  It's not hard to follow its motion and stay on target.  Barrell roll or a spin would be a more effective evasion.  

 

A surprise to me is that the P-39 is considered a good fighter in this game.  In most of sims I've played, it's easy to for it to go into an accelerated stall during a tight turn and then enter a spin.  Great for ground attack, though.  But it's sort of a mix of turn and burn and zoom and boom in this game from what I've seen on YouTube.

 

(edit)  Hi, Trikke.    That's good to hear.  I saw a mention of the escort mode but don't know anything about it.    I tried the KI-43-1, which is a very fun plane in Warbirds even with just two 12.7mm guns, but I was just vaporized constantly in it in this game without being able to contribute.  So that's why I'm here, asking questions.   Oddly, the A5M works great for me, so I'm sure I'm doing something wrong with the KI-43-1.    I've been trying the turn and burn fighters first, now beginning with the zoom and boom AR 80 and then will be going into the ME 109's.

 

Making a plane spin or barrel roll requires you to utilize manual keyboard controls (assuming you're using M&K). Most experienced pilots have custom keybinds for this since the use of manual controls can increase an airplane's turn time by over 1s relative to someone using pure default controls...which is a gigantic advantage. Manual keybinds have the advantage of also allowing you to properly perform standard ACM rather than simply chasing your reticule around the monitor. I'd recommend you start experimenting early so there won't be so much to unlearn once you decide to start with the Manual Control Haxs.

 

Also, stall and spin mechanics in Warplanes are... terrible and nonexistant. The Stall mechanics in the game are one of my pet peeves and pretty much the one thing I actively despise about it (and that's saying a lot). Let's just say that, you never want to stall out with your engine shot out because that will result in one of the most immersion-breaking experiences you can have in this game - a plane that will literally float like a balloon, unable to accelerate downwards despite, you know, supposedly having mass. I pray that this will be fixed someday... soon.

 

But its also because of the way stalls and gravity work in this game that the Airacobra does not possess any of the vicious CoG imbalances it experienced in real life which is modelled in most other, more realistic games. Take away those handling issues and you have a plane that's fast, hard hitting and maneuverable. And because Warplanes compresses altitude bands quite severely, especially at the lower tiers, the Airacobra's other historical weakness - lack of altitude performance - doesn't hinder it in this game either. So you basically get a plane with similar performance to the P-40 - which is already an excellent performer - but with a massive 37mm derp gun in the center to boot. Not hard to see why its considered such a good airplane.

 

A5M is a tier lower; you're not facing the likes of 109Bs, I-17s and other tier 4 menaces.


***

But a truce to this mournful story

For death is a distant friend

So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


Canoso77 #32 Posted 23 September 2018 - 06:12 PM

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I hadn't really looked into the keyboard controls beyond the default.  Thank you for bringing that up.   I do use mouse and keyboard since previous threads show the game isn't really optimized for a joystick.   I haven't experienced a stall while the engine is shot out yet, mostly because I try to glide to maintain airspeed when the engine's gone, just out of habit from other sims.   Sorry to hear about that glitch in the game mechanics.

 

I actually do like the looks and the concept behind the P-39.  But in real life, it was a very unconventional aircraft and had unique problems that, as you pointed out, kept it from living up to its promise.  I have a soft spot for aircraft that weren't perfect but still soldiered on anyway thanks to their innovative pilots and crews.  But if it's fun here, then I look forward to trying it out.  

 

True about what the A5M faces most of the time.  But I've been put into a few battles in it against  a mix of tier 4 and tier 3 aircraft.  No, I wasn't in a flight with someone, just a single player. I was shot down quick when I got shot, but I still had fun and contributed to the team, though.   Even managed a couple of kills on tier 4 aircraft.   But yes, the KI-43-I is going to face much better aircraft.   Now, I had no problem going from the Skua to the Hurricane 1.  Hurricane 1 works great for me.  Of course, it's not nearly as fragile as the KI-43-I.   I guess I expected the same easy transition going from the KI-27 to the KI-43-I.  



trikke #33 Posted 24 September 2018 - 11:53 AM

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an early tip from an OP alpha master, Herr Oberst Nu, has always been helpful...    ty, HON!

 

when chasing a target, match your wings to his wings so that no matter when he breaks, you can immediately break the same direction 

 

keep your fingertips on the A and D keys (your roll left / roll right keys) all the time


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Deltavee #34 Posted 26 September 2018 - 04:25 AM

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View PostAce_BOTlistic_Cosmo, on 21 September 2018 - 03:22 PM, said:

I speak Klingon

tlhIngan Hol Dajatlh'a'?

 

You just ordered a deep-fried baseball....

Deltavee

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Ace_BOTlistic_Cosmo #35 Posted 26 September 2018 - 12:30 PM

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View PostDeltavee, on 25 September 2018 - 11:25 PM, said:

 

You just ordered a deep-fried baseball....

and... that's a delicacy on the planet Zork

you gotta problem wit that?

(except of course the obvious cholesterol issues)


if the pilot's good, see, I mean, if he's really..sharp, he can barrel that baby in so low [he spreads his arms like wings and laughs],

you oughtta see it sometime, it's a sight. A big plane like a '52. VRROOM! There's jet exhaust, fryin' chickens in the barnyard.


FLAP_ALOT #36 Posted 27 September 2018 - 08:20 PM

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View PostCanoso77, on 22 September 2018 - 03:35 AM, said:

Trikke, I'm not a Steam player but I have some questions you or the others might be able to answer.  They're quick questions so I don't think separate threads would be worthwhile.

 

I have a hard time seeing the planes in night battles unless they are against the snow or the aurora.  I see the aircraft icons just fine, but finding where to aim at the plane under the icon can be difficult.  Should I adjust my graphic settings?  Or does everyone have this same problem?

 

When you find yourself in a closing head on approach with an enemy who outguns you, is there a preferred method of evasion so you're not shot down?  I've tried quick climbs, dives, and turns, but I still take a lot of damage.  Maybe I'm not timing things right, I don't know.

 

I've flown several flight sims, and I miss having the joystick.  Videos on YouTube compare joystick and mouse for WoWP, and the mouse seems better for getting the gunsight where it needs to be.  What's your experience?   Any preference?  As a note, it took me some time to realize that with the mouse, you're not flying the plane as much as the plane is following the gunsight.

 

I know this is a game of percentages, just like World of Tanks and World of Warships.  I've played both of those for years and little percentage advantages can make a difference.  But the improved components for the planes really don't seem worthwhile since they're expensive, they depend partially on RNG, and you trade off decreases to other stats for the benefits.  Of course, I'm only beginning to fly at tier 4.   At what tier do you think the enhancements and calibrations really begin to pay off?  Or should you Specialize the plane before improving components so you'll have more components to work with and more value for your investment?

 

Yes,I also have great difficulty seeing in the night battles,glad I'm not the only one! Im getting on about dont know if that has got anything to do with it.

 



Deltavee #37 Posted 28 September 2018 - 01:18 AM

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View PostAce_BOTlistic_Cosmo, on 26 September 2018 - 07:30 AM, said:

and... that's a delicacy on the planet Zork

you gotta problem wit that?

(except of course the obvious cholesterol issues)

 

Only if they overdo it with the 10W30 sauce.

Deltavee

GAA drivers do it in the dirt.





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