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Russian Tier-3 SB & Tier-4 Ar-2 Useless Bombers

Blind spots in Gunners View

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cobra_marksman #1 Posted 19 September 2018 - 02:39 PM

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I do enjoy flying all your bombers, except for those 2.:bajan: Wowp installed a large blind spot in the gunners view, where the gunner, can only do 2 things while the fighters are ripping his plane apart. 1) He can use harsh language at the fighter ,:izmena: while the fighter rips up the bomber.  2) He can use the down time to pick his nose,:ohmy:because he can't do anything else. The problem here, is that the bots & players already  know this and they stay in that blind spot while attacking. Even if and when, you maneuver the bomber out of that blind spot, they maneuver right back into it. Might as well put in a Blind Gunner:kamikaze: in that seat, because that blind spot makes him really useless.  I'll be stripping all upgraded gear from them both, and will be putting in for a Refund of all  tokens & gold that was wasted on them. Why the hell would you create a bomber that is more frustrating to fly then enjoyable. Next time you design a new plane for your customers to Buy & Fly:coin:, you might want to test it out first before releasing it. Were starting to believe what Forrest Gump once told us.… “Stupid is as stupid does.” – Forrest Gump.

Edited by cobra_marksman, 19 September 2018 - 02:44 PM.


pirat262 #2 Posted 19 September 2018 - 03:44 PM

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well i'm not agree i have it both the tier 3 soviet bomber in specialist mode and is awesome much better than the british bomber tier in specialist mode and the tier 4 soviet bomber is not yet in specialist and really cool too but in tier 4 there are many so players so fly it in 2000 mts and in zone with less enemy's around to 1500 mts and you will see it is really cool too, grettings

comtedumas #3 Posted 19 September 2018 - 03:49 PM

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Actually, I have found how you have to fly them to make them work.  Here goes:  You have to fly them (and the PE-2’s) like there is a political commissar sitting right behind you with a gun pressed to the back of your head.  

 

No kidding.  

 

You need to be below 6000ft, you need to be on boost almost all the time, and engine cooling is mandatory.  You are also going to need to pay the tokens to specialize them ASAP, because without the bombsite you don’t have a bomber you have a bomb throwing shotgun.

 

the PE-2’s aren’t quite as bad,  but these two are not good bombers out the door.  Free XP to get the good engines first.  Convert some plane XP if you don’t have enough free XP.  But they are not in the class of the Blenheim and Do-17.  It makes you feel really bad for the Soviet pilots who had to fly them in real life.  Almost.     


Edited by comtedumas, 19 September 2018 - 03:51 PM.


Martymart1976 #4 Posted 19 September 2018 - 04:32 PM

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I fly the SB at 2000 meters. First pass to destroy the AA, then flip around, 2 bombs per target.  I can capture things fairly well if left alone.....if a heavy fighter shows up, well make sure you have your Party dues paid up Comrade...Your going to be on the causality list in the Party newspaper.....

 

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pirat262 #5 Posted 19 September 2018 - 05:05 PM

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well the tier 5 soviet bomber and the tier 6 soviet bombers are really cool , i use them to dive is just really good and the gun of the tier 6 is really cool , I hope that they would be much better in specialist mode I'm working in that.The soviet bombers are really cool if you know how to use it , greetings :)

cobra_marksman #6 Posted 19 September 2018 - 09:02 PM

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View Postpirat262, on 19 September 2018 - 10:44 AM, said:

well i'm not agree i have it both the tier 3 soviet bomber in specialist mode and is awesome much better than the british bomber tier in specialist mode and the tier 4 soviet bomber is not yet in specialist and really cool too but in tier 4 there are many so players so fly it in 2000 mts and in zone with less enemy's around to 1500 mts and you will see it is really cool too, grettings

Do you ever jump in the gunner seat while being attacked by a fighter ? My point was a problem with the rear gunner. All of the other bombers come with gunners that can ( at times ) cover your rear, and make the fighter pay a price for shooting from the 6 o'clock position. These 2  bombers vertical tail ( rudder ) seems to be the problem. Their is a large blind spot where the gunner can't shoot, & the bots & fighter players know it. Simply put.....if he and the bots stay in that hidden blind spot ( which they do ), you can't shoot back, and your shortly going to be dead. To put it simpler: Good fighter pilots & all bots know this, your the easiest target on the map & they will take little damage in a fight, while shooting you down. 


Edited by cobra_marksman, 19 September 2018 - 09:07 PM.


GonerNL #7 Posted 19 September 2018 - 10:19 PM

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Because I frequently lose the aiming circle in my bomb-sight, I go low-level bombing with them ... works OK with some armour slapped on the frame and/or engine.

Don't go too low, because after the latest patch (read bomber/GA nerf) it's easy to bomb yourself out of the sky.


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trikke #8 Posted 20 September 2018 - 12:41 PM

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i was unable to win any of the russian bombers, so i'll have to wait until they show up in the tech tree

 

i've seen some excellent scores from the T6 Pe, but most folks at my skill level seem to be struggling to figure out the smartest way to use the others


Edited by trikke, 20 September 2018 - 12:55 PM.

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Captain_Underpants53 #9 Posted 20 September 2018 - 01:42 PM

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I really like all all the bombers but I have to admit that the same tier German bombers are overall better.  Try staying in a constant bank while you pepper the attacker.  The SB can actually seem OP at times.

Edited by Captain_Underpants53, 20 September 2018 - 01:45 PM.

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EZP_MRKARP #10 Posted 21 September 2018 - 10:42 AM

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maybe you skill less bombers should grow a pair and fly real planes,most of the time bombers are worthless to team fly high and do your own thing only looking for your points 

SpiritFoxMY #11 Posted 21 September 2018 - 10:49 AM

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Or maybe the skilless fighter pilots on our teams couldn't hold a cap to save their lives without needing us to be in a fighter and carrying them.

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Captain_Underpants53 #12 Posted 21 September 2018 - 11:13 AM

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View PostEZP_MRKARP, on 21 September 2018 - 05:42 AM, said:

maybe you skill less bombers should grow a pair and fly real planes,most of the time bombers are worthless to team fly high and do your own thing only looking for your points 

 

I normally pretty much ignore your constant 'skill less bomber pilots' refrain but I got to thinking about it.  I have decided that you are an expert in that subject.

 

You have less than a 50% win rate.  You own a T3 & a T4 bomber with 12 WHOLE sorties between them.  An amazing grand total of less than 20 GTs between them.

 

You DO know what you are talking about!


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hoom #13 Posted 21 September 2018 - 03:32 PM

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SB is easy: pop up to 2000-2500m and drop bombs on stuff.

The fact the gun has a big blind-spot is essentially meaningless since you should nearly never be in a situation where it matters.

I believe Blenheim has a similar blind-spot now too.

 

Occasionally you'll get an Fw-57 lumber up to you but you can climb and boost away, often they'll stall out trying to chase, he'll get up to you again when you're bombing a cap but you just climb and boost away again, can just lead them around the map for a long time while taking minimal damage and keeping him out of the fight.

Occasional hilarious dogfighting sissy slaps with a Blenheim happens also.

 

 

Ar-2 I'm having all sorts of issues with though, Heavies easily get up to kill it when you go high & its not fast or well armed enough to get out of trouble when you go low/medium.

I have basically the same issue with Do217M too, its all fine until a Heavy decides its time to kill you then you die.


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SpiritFoxMY #14 Posted 21 September 2018 - 03:55 PM

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View Posthoom, on 21 September 2018 - 11:32 PM, said:

Ar-2 I'm having all sorts of issues with though, Heavies easily get up to kill it when you go high & its not fast or well armed enough to get out of trouble when you go low/medium.

I have basically the same issue with Do217M too, its all fine until a Heavy decides its time to kill you then you die.

 

I've found that the Do217M is reasonably capable of putting enough distance between itself and a heavy so long as you spot the guy while he's climbing up or otherwise making a beeline at you as long as you're cruising at about 2200m.

 

When you see that, run towards the closest blob of blue. At full boost most heavies will have trouble closing for the kill IF you spot them far enough to wind yourself up for the run.

 

So you're effectively a permanently twitchy gopher


Edited by SpiritFoxMY, 21 September 2018 - 03:57 PM.

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Prenzlau #15 Posted 21 September 2018 - 04:25 PM

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    Allow me to try this again. There is nothing wrong with any of the Russian bombers. They are just different and require a different set of flight skills and tactics. Players, (any players) need to adjust and learn to maximize the potential of the plane they are flying. Any bomber, even the RB-17 is at a disadvantage when attacked by fighters and heavy fighters. The bomber is often out gunned and out maneuvered. Surviving while flying a bomber is mainly the skill and experience of the player. So if a particular plane, like the Russian bombers are difficult to fly and survive, I suggest more practice and some thinking about tactics. 

    Bombers take a different skill set as opposed to flying other plane types. It takes longer in my opinion to master bombers and become proficient in them. I have observed that the majority of bomber players struggle at various levels with different bomber types. My advice, again is practice and seek out more experienced bomber players for advice and learning. 

    Bombers are an integral of any team and if the bomber player is highly skilled, it can be a great advantage for that team. Players who like to fly heavies and fighters should coordinate with the human bomber players on their team to provide added protection, and human fighter and heavy fighter players on opposing teams should learn good tactics to effectively destroy human bombers that are a threat. Unfortunately, I have observed the opposite in the majority of my battles. No coordination (unless the bomber and fighter players are in a flight together), and really foolish tactics by the opposing fighters and heavies. So the air battles between bombers and interceptors usually leave much to be desired. 

    Regardless of the dubious and suspicious matchmaking system and wildly illogical results from some battles, this game is still about skill versus skill. Planes should not be used as scapegoats. The plane type that a player is using is as deadly and lethal as that player's skill level. 

 

Prenzlau


Edited by Prenzlau, 21 September 2018 - 05:59 PM.

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hoom #16 Posted 21 September 2018 - 04:36 PM

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Block Quote

 Allow me to try this again. There is nothing wrong with the tier 5 and 6 Russian bombers.

 Nobody said there was. Its the T3 & 4 that are being complained about here.

 

Block Quote

 I've found that the Do217M is reasonably capable of putting enough distance between itself and a heavy so long as you spot the guy while he's climbing up or otherwise making a beeline at you as long as you're cruising at about 2200m.

T6 Heavies climbing up to you at 2200m? Thats their cruising altitude, they just come straight at you the instant you're spotted.

Do you dive down into the blob of blue or hope that someone is up at your altitude? And do you find that actually helps much? I've generally had the Heavies just keep coming & my bots fail to do jack to them before I die.


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trikke #17 Posted 21 September 2018 - 08:21 PM

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View Posthoom, on 21 September 2018 - 12:36 PM, said:

 

T6 Heavies climbing up to you at 2200m? Thats their cruising altitude, they just come straight at you the instant you're spotted.

 

my specced T5 p-38f can reach 7k feet in just a few seconds... 

 

i love to watch human bombers get all flustered and wiggly when i pass through their flight level while still accelerating 

 

edit:  (i cannot wait for BEM!)


Edited by trikke, 21 September 2018 - 08:22 PM.

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comtedumas #18 Posted 24 September 2018 - 12:51 AM

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My worst problem with all the Soviet bombers is the requirement to get turret kills to specialize them.  They just don’t have enough turret firepower to get that done...

SpiritFoxMY #19 Posted 24 September 2018 - 01:10 AM

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View Posthoom, on 22 September 2018 - 12:36 AM, said:

T6 Heavies climbing up to you at 2200m? Thats their cruising altitude, they just come straight at you the instant you're spotted.

Do you dive down into the blob of blue or hope that someone is up at your altitude? And do you find that actually helps much? I've generally had the Heavies just keep coming & my bots fail to do jack to them before I die.

 

It helps more than trying to go into orbit at least. So far I've found that more often than not the Heavies are down on the deck hunting other targets if you give them the time to do so and at 2200m, the speed differences between Heavies and Bombers is sufficient for me to drag out a pursuit. It won't stop a determined hunter killer but you can pull him out of position and get him sniped or unable to assist his allies.

 

And 2200 m is low enough I don't see a need to dive unless I'm desperate or aiming for a repair. Allied bots and players can easily take shots at your pursuers if you drag them over.


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So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


CorvusCorvax #20 Posted 01 October 2018 - 10:27 PM

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Hint:  Playing bomber requires MORE skill than any fighter.  Because you have to think about what you're doing.  Yanking and banking in a Spit is DEAD EASY.  And boring as hell.  Winning the battle with a bomber is hard.

 

For those who play HF:  If you see at the beginning of the battle a human in a bomber, you have a choice.  You can try and carry by shooting down other heavies and GAA.  OR, you can go after the bombers and the other heavies that come up to find you.  You won't be able to do both, unless you're in a P-38 or an Me-410.

 

Oh, and at T8?  Your Me-262 can also do both.  :evil grin:






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