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Discussion: the German "Gunships" T-5 and 6 GAA


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hawkeyededic #1 Posted 18 September 2018 - 04:12 PM

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First of all I want to thank everyone that has provided input on my previous discussions. I hope people have come away with a better idea or maybe even a different on how to employee the planes discussed so far.

 

This week lets talk about the German Gunships, the T-5 Ju.87G Stuka, Hs.129 "Duck" and the Tier-6 Ju.88P.

 

Let us please keep this discussion on track and not let it derail to how bad or good you think these planes are, but how to get the most out of them in their current state.

 

At top configuration these three planes rely exclusively on big guns to deal damage to ground targets, one or 2 37mm guns on the Stuka and "Duck" respectively and a single 50mm on the Junkers. These much maligned planes create a bottle neck for a lot of players working their way up the German GAA tech tree, with no real way to bypass them short of free-xp.

 

What equipment do you prefer to use? What about pilot skills? Finally what tactics and/or strategies do you prefer when flying these big gunned beasts?

 

I am myself going to abstain from this discussion as all of my time in them, with the exception of 2 or 3 battles, was during the pre-2.0 days when these planes were at their pinnacle of effectiveness.

 

 



 

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wylleEcoyote #2 Posted 18 September 2018 - 05:11 PM

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After 250+sorties in a Stuka i may have a few words on the subject
OK ready? Gogogogogo ....

Coming to the Stuka from just about anything else and the first thing you will notice is ...
That had more than a few words on the subject
The TL;DR is that i tell you what it feels like to fly this thing for the first time.
And neat stuff on how to go about doing so with as much success as the plane allows.
 
Wall o' Text Part One


Part 2  Equipment, consumables and pilot Perks.

The stock bird (or if you would rather keep to the more forgiving 20's)  gives you 2 equipment slots to work with, Airframe and Forward Mounted Gun.
Each one allowing you to get up to One Enhancement to the Improved level plus all the Calibration you want up to 258. You can take it further but the extra effects wont count for the plane.

Airframe:
Reinforced Skin
 
Reinforced Airframe
 
Polished Skin

The Guns
are a bit trickier as there is no "Wrong Way" for their use.
Each one is good on its own but they do favor particular things if you REALLY wanna throw silver and tokens at reassembling gear until its juuuust right
It seems counter intuitive but  ... lemmie explain
 
Reinforced Bolt Carrier
 
Gas Operated Action
 
Long Gun Barrels


It is worth mentioning that WG specifically tells us in the tooltips that large bore auto cannons like the 37mm already have a high critical chance.
I have the long barrels on a different 37mm armed plane, the P-38. When i got that 15% increased Crit the difference was Very Noticable Indeed.
Slap on an advanced sight and you could have a combined 30% bonus Crit Chance :trollface:
before you tack on Universal Ammo or spend gold on High Explosive Armor Piercing for maximum damage to ground targets. :coin:


:ohmy: You could train the Pilot with Raptor strike and make a dive from 1600 meters or so 
your cannons would get an additional 50%  chance to start a fire and cause a Critical hit. :amazed:
It only seems insane until you remember that the Stuka is, was, and ever shall be  ...  a Dive Bomber  :great:


Hold up stop typing.  I know it is ridiculous.
But the point of the OP was to figure out how to make the most of this bird.
I suppose someone should ask the Devs if it is possible to critical a ground target at all before jumping to any conclusions or training rooms to test the theory ...

ill need a crit gun sight, polished skin,  crit long barrels some trim adjusters for that extra kick when pulling out of the dive, a note from a doctor, some duct tape notification of Next of Kin ...

Your final option is to spec out and open up that second gun slot and a gunsight for the cockpit.

Gear

Edited by wylleEcoyote, 19 September 2018 - 08:32 PM.


LMG #3 Posted 18 September 2018 - 05:17 PM

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One thing to keep in mind with these planes is that, unlike the soviet GAAs, the guns are vastly superior. How much? Well, a single german 37mm cannon deals as much damage as the two soviet 37mm cannons on the IL-2. With that in mind the planes follow a similar general pattern, but they diverge quite a bit.

 

With the duck you can choose to either use the 37mm cannon or the four bombs. The bombs are extremely lackluster for the tier, but they can still do some work. However, with the Specialist Configuration you're stuck with the 37mm cannon. It deals enough damage to one-shot soft buildings, while armored ones will take 5 shots to tackle. However, unlike the other planes of this type, the Duck also has access to 20mm cannons and machine guns, which means it can attempt to start fires somewhat reliably, increasing its effectiveness in ground pounding. A burning building will go down much faster, to the point you can just let it burn out and go for another target as soon as you see the flames. The plane's also faster than the other GAAs at tier 5, so keep that in mind if trouble's coming your way, as the Duck has no reargunner. If you have the bombs, you can try for bombkills on hostile aircraft. If not, you better know some fancy maneuvers to get you out of trouble :ohmy:.

 

The Stuka has a very rough grind from stock, only equipping 20mm cannons. They can try to deal some damage to soft buildings, but they're not great against armored ones unless you get lucky with fires. Your best bet is to shoot down a few aircraft since the Stuka's fairly maneuverable for a GAA. With the twin 37mm cannons you can one-shot soft buildings, but it'll still take about 5 volleys to destroy armored buildings (not sure if less). The plane's main strength is its anti-GAA capacity, as nothing at the tier can really take it on in a dogfight. The reargun is nice to have, but don't expect it to magically keep you alive :hiding:.

 

The Ju 88 P works basically like a better Stuka. With the single 50mm cannon you one-shot soft buildings, but armored ones still take 5 shots (see the pattern yet?). However, it shoots faster and from longer range than the 37s, making it a lot better overall. Reargunner's improved, but it's still not enough to reliably deal with many of the enemies you'll face without a skilled reargunner. In fact, it deals less damage than the one on the IL-2 (t) :amazed:.

 

With the big cannons all the planes play similarly. My suggestion is to first clear the AA guns from afar, then slowly chip away at the ground targets. Try to find the minimum number of ground targets you'll need to get the cap, and preferably refrain from shooting at one for too long. In fact, try to always have something to shoot at so you make constant progress, and use your brakes and flaps to give you aditional time to shoot at things (just don't stall while at it). However, with the Duck you can also try to "farm for fires"; aka, spray your 20s and machine guns over several ground targets hoping that they'll be lit on fire. Just keep in mind you lose some DPS by not focusing each one down individually.

 

The Duck with the bombs plays... odd. The bombs are far too weak to really make much of an impact, but they still deal quite a bit of damage, allowing it to dispatch armored buildings quickly, but leaving the plane with little to do while the bombs are recharging aside of taking out soft buildings and farming for fires. But you also get the advantage of having a self-defense mechanism, so try them both and see what sticks.

 

If at any point you're against another GAA over a neutral sector, it'd be wise to attempt to shoot them down, or get the last hit on any building they're attacking to "steal" their points. The Stuka will beat all of them in a turnfight, so avoid it at all costs unless you have your own. If an enemy fighter's aproaching you, your real chance to survive is to take them down in a head-on engagement, in which the Duck excels thanks to the extra guns available. In a flight it's best to use them with something that has ordnance, preferably large bombs or a lot of smaller ones, like a Bomber of a Multirole. Let them dump their payload and go in to finish the job. For equipment I highly advise additional HP and as much gun accuracy as possible, as well as increased rate of fire, if only for a lack of a better option :bajan:.

 

As a bonus, here's a match on my Ju 88 P I got during Summer Storm :popcorn::

 

Spoiler

 


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nwlxn12 #4 Posted 18 September 2018 - 05:28 PM

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I boosted accuracy and maneuverability and anytime I ran across an enemy GA, I would attack that plane before ground targets.  When I attacked ground targets, I would first get rid of AA, then soft targets, and then make passes on hard targets.  If at anytime during ground targets an enemy plane presented itself in front of me, I would try to hit it.  It is really satisfying landing one of those rounds in an enemy plane.

Gullygnome #5 Posted 18 September 2018 - 07:52 PM

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I liked the Ju88 P. That cannon packs a punch and is point and click accurate.

 

And one shotting planes at 1300? Mmhmmh.

 

Me329 is godlike compared, though.



trikke #6 Posted 18 September 2018 - 08:17 PM

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great topic!

 

LMG is the hands-down expert on GAs, i agree with his decisions, and i recommend his advice to new folks

 

i do love all three, but i didn't keep the Stuka      i fly the Hs 129 almost every day, and double love it, in particular 

 

the long-range pinpoint-accurate guns on specced mid-tier german GAs make me smile like a kid at a carnival


Spittoon says #smarterpilotswinmore

Wombatmetal #7 Posted 18 September 2018 - 08:36 PM

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On the Duck and Ju 88, learn to count.

 

1...2...3...4...5 shells and switch targets before it blows up, because it will blow up. If you can get in that rhythm you will become more efficient.



Cenotaph #8 Posted 18 September 2018 - 09:08 PM

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Are the gunboats really so maligned?

 

I kept my JU-88P, and have been toying with the idea of repurchasing the JU-87...    :unsure:


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LMG #9 Posted 18 September 2018 - 09:14 PM

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View PostCenotaph, on 18 September 2018 - 04:08 PM, said:

Are the gunboats really so maligned?

 

I kept my JU-88P, and have been toying with the idea of repurchasing the JU-87...    :unsure:

 

They're not horrid, they're just subpar. The Me 265 and 329 get away with it thanks to their severe speed advantage over the soviets, as well as having ordnance. Just using cannons is inefficient and time-consuming when compared to one-shotting a cluster of armored buildings with one bomb (hence why I used to run the Duck with bombs over the 37 until I figured out just how much damage it actually dealt, and I still have my doubts), especially considering how slow most of them fire. I already made a thread for what I consider reasonable buffs for the planes over at the Suggestions subforum some time ago. You can make these planes work, but they're a bit too far behind in terms of what they can accomplish in a battle :unsure:


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Wombatmetal #10 Posted 18 September 2018 - 09:45 PM

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The payoff is tier 10

 

You get between sectors quicker in the meantime

 

And learning how to snipe in my Stuka had a real payoff when I started Yak multi roles



MadJackChurchil #11 Posted 19 September 2018 - 02:40 AM

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View Posthawkeyededic, on 18 September 2018 - 04:12 PM, said:

...with no real way to bypass them short of free-xp.

 

Disagree. You can bypass them through the bomber line. You can also get to the T7 heavy fighters through the bomber line.

But a good topic indeed. I still keep my Stuka (with snow camo it looks like a dalmatian), but after getting 37 mm and finding out I cannot really kill planes with it and struggle with buildings... I went for the bomber line.



hawkeyededic #12 Posted 19 September 2018 - 04:38 AM

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View PostMadJackChurchil, on 18 September 2018 - 08:40 PM, said:

 

Disagree. You can bypass them through the bomber line. You can also get to the T7 heavy fighters through the bomber line.

But a good topic indeed. I still keep my Stuka (with snow camo it looks like a dalmatian), but after getting 37 mm and finding out I cannot really kill planes with it and struggle with buildings... I went for the bomber line.

 

yeah, I forgot about the bomber line being a route to bypass them with. I got all my German bombers from boxes during the Albion event, so never had to grind on that line.


 

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GonerNL #13 Posted 19 September 2018 - 02:05 PM

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To be honest, I ditched the Ju-87 and Ju-88P as soon as I got the Me-265 (EU account) ... but I decided to give the Hs-129 a chance on my NA account and I really like it. 

In this plane I could at least defend myself a bit and attack other GA, because it's reasonably manoeuvrable and it has 20mm's and mg's besides the 37mm.

Put armor (cockpit/airframe) and long gun barrels (other 2 options have negative accuracy) and protection expert and marksman (I think) on it to stay alive and hit stuff.

It's great at shooting up AA to give your GA and bombers some time to take out the real targets.


Edited by GonerNL, 19 September 2018 - 02:13 PM.

Flying on EU and NA server




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