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Remove the altitude nerfing on following multiroles:

p-47 fw-190d me-109tl

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jack_wdw #1 Posted 14 September 2018 - 01:05 PM

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It's ridiculous that some multirole planes get nerfed in terms of altitude.

The ones that clearly come to my mind are:
- p-47 (one of the best, maybe the best single engined high altitude fighter of WW2)
- Fw-190d (Was not even used as fighter bomber, it was intended as the high-altitude performance version of the A-series. hands down the best German single engined piston fighter of the war)
- Me-109TL (why cripple this bird in terms of altitude, while it was intended as an alternative to me-262)
- F-94 (designed as pure bomber killer, not intended for ground attack, but in this game it stalls to reach most bombers altitude)

Edited by jack_wdw, 14 September 2018 - 01:05 PM.


CorvusCorvax #2 Posted 14 September 2018 - 03:59 PM

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View Postjack_wdw, on 14 September 2018 - 01:05 PM, said:

It's ridiculous that some multirole planes get nerfed in terms of altitude.

The ones that clearly come to my mind are:
- p-47 (one of the best, maybe the best single engined high altitude fighter of WW2)
- Fw-190d (Was not even used as fighter bomber, it was intended as the high-altitude performance version of the A-series. hands down the best German single engined piston fighter of the war)
- Me-109TL (why cripple this bird in terms of altitude, while it was intended as an alternative to me-262)
- F-94 (designed as pure bomber killer, not intended for ground attack, but in this game it stalls to reach most bombers altitude)

 

BALANCE.

 

That is the only reason these (and all the other) aircraft are not historically-accurate in their representations.



SlappedbyRommel #3 Posted 14 September 2018 - 04:25 PM

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View PostCorvusCorvax, on 14 September 2018 - 03:59 PM, said:

 

BALANCE.

 

That is the only reason these (and all the other) aircraft are not historically-accurate in their representations.

 

Interesting you say that it is too bad especially for the FW190 it would be very interesting to see that line accurate as possible brings a different variable to the game. Somehow why is the spitfire/zero's  accurate and some of the Russian planes why nerf the German ones maybe the game wouldn't be stale.

Cenotaph #4 Posted 14 September 2018 - 05:43 PM

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I've been saying for a while that there outta be 2 classes of MRs...

 

Limited alt / heavy ordnance, Ground Pounders... and higher alt Gunship / Interceptors, with limited to no (ground) ordnance, like the F-94D, BV 210 / 212, ect.

 

I would like to expand the idea to be dynamic, meaning that if you dropped your FW 190s ordnance, you'd get a better ceiling alt... but I'd rather not risk WG totally messing things up, so keep it simple.


Edited by Cenotaph, 14 September 2018 - 05:44 PM.

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CorvusCorvax #5 Posted 14 September 2018 - 08:30 PM

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View PostSlappedbyRommel, on 14 September 2018 - 04:25 PM, said:

 

Interesting you say that it is too bad especially for the FW190 it would be very interesting to see that line accurate as possible brings a different variable to the game. Somehow why is the spitfire/zero's  accurate and some of the Russian planes why nerf the German ones maybe the game wouldn't be stale.

 

I would absolutely LOVE to fly the historically-accurate 190,  That thing would be a beast, and would pretty much ruin any competition.  But alas, BALANCE.  I find it sad that the Bf-109 models are better fighter aircraft in-game than the FW190.  

Reitousair #6 Posted 14 September 2018 - 09:56 PM

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It is kinda funny how the MRF tag instantly cripples the altitude of whatever plane it's applied to. J7W's were meant to intercept B-29's IRL and would be more inline with HF's than MRF's, yet in WoWp their altitude is barely better than Yak LF's, they're some of the slowest planes in their respective tiers, and they're also surprisingly maneuverable with those minuscule control surfaces. The one thing they do retain is hilarious amounts of firepower than can easily 3-5 shot anything that doesn't have well North of 1000HP (nor is actively running away, which isn't hard to do.) J4M suffers a similar fate, however at least that one gets to keep its speed.

 

The entire Tbird line, not just P-47's get wrecked by MRF designation. From XP-72 onwards you have the same altitude cap, which is devastating to the F-84's since almost everything else gains altitude at tiers 9/10, while they don't. So have fun trying to escape to higher altitudes with your twenty seconds of boost when your altitude isn't much better than Yak LF's. At least they get some speed and surprisingly good maneuverability, but their lack of altitude severely hampers their capabilities in air combat; they're only equipped with MG's, why make them have a harder time fighting back?


I do fly Chinese aircraft a fair amount so... *ahem*

CHINA NUMBAH WAN

 

I even made a custom skin for my IL-10M!

 


mnbv_fockewulfe #7 Posted 15 September 2018 - 12:13 AM

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View PostCorvusCorvax, on 14 September 2018 - 08:30 PM, said:

 

I would absolutely LOVE to fly the historically-accurate 190,  That thing would be a beast, and would pretty much ruin any competition.  But alas, BALANCE.  I find it sad that the Bf-109 models are better fighter aircraft in-game than the FW190.

 

The Fw 190 A-5 was a beast, which I can safely claim to be the king of.:B

It was at the point I had brought my winrate in the plane from ~40% w/r to a 60% w/r with almost 1000 battles (nearly a whole 1/4 of my combat time). It was at the point I was literally getting at least an ace every battle (infact, it was my only plane in which I scored two Gorovetts=9 kills in a single battle).


 

Having been what I would consider a bit of a dog for most of the time I've had her, she was the plane I first learned BnZ in. I remember like it was yesterday. A Mosquito was bellow me and pulled up to get his guns on me. So I pulled up away from him and it just clicked. I waited for him to stall then turned around and got some good hits on him. Pulled back up, and someone else got the kill. Since then I perfected my technique and improved my decision making abilities, energy management skills, and gunner accuracy.


 

The (main) reason why I called her a dog was because of her altitude (her climbrate was second only to the corsair in her tier which was impaired by were low optimum), which as absolutely crippling compared to the other BnZers. She was the second worst BnZer, winning only over the Corsair and (hence being a BnZ plane) over the British LF, HF, Russian LF, MRF, and (particularly) GAA (which were a b**** to kill during the cannon nerf of 1.7-8), and Japanese LF.


 

Being as fast as a P-51A in optimum alt didn't help. You absolutely had to have more altitude then your equal tier opponents (yes, I have been shot down by Pancakes while flying the A-5) if you had any chance of surviving. You only had two defencive options: 1. Dive and use your vastly superior roll rate to dodge fire on the way down then extend away at low alt with the extra power you got from having a radial compared to inlines or; 2. Hit the brakes, hit the flaps, roll like a madman, and pray. Both of these methods rarely worked as they required great skill I hadn't acquired yet and a bit of luck to pull off.


 

Did I mention that the only planes you could out-turn were HF and GAA? "Turns like a brick and hits like one" was the most common condemnation and admiration of the plane. The only MRF that turned worse was the Fw 190D-9. Which says a lot about that plane (maybe another time). The only planes that could hit as hard were HF and at one time the Lagg 3 (once the most versatile aircraft in the game, they nerfed it's versatility in the great MRF nerf of 1.5, then made the heavy firepower version into a premium as an *u to the community). By the time of 1.8 my gunnery skills had increased dramatically. Before client side, I could be extremely sure of my shots, I'd even worked hard to upgrade my pilot's skills for an extra 10% accuracy as well as the gunsights which gave another 10%. While damage at long range had been nerfed to hell in 1.5-8, anything under 300m would melt instantly, within a 2 second burst of pulling the trigger. The most satisfying were catching someone in a stall, a sneaking up behind someone without them noticing (tunnel vision has the hardest habit to get rid of, and was a very real and dangerous thing to be aware of; players no longer can experience this due to bots evading instantly the second you get behind them, there's no satisfaction in sneaking up on a bot because you can't).


 

All the while these are 3v3, 3 tier spread, 3 man flights. All humans, humans in better planes (the P-51 and Bf 109G were king of T7), coordinated humans, and some of the best pilots I've gone up against. Then we got 1.9 with more powerful guns and bots.


 

Aside from getting used to the nerfed accuracy but better damage at long range, situational awareness was a whole 'nother skill I had to learn (an indirect buff to the 190's altitude along with more and better pilot skills stacked for speed helped). I had to go from tracking at most, 5 other aircraft, to 29. Yet I got good at it then I mastered carrying. In 3v3s, engagements could be over in a matter of seconds. It all depended on how good you were at working with you team members. Sometimes it even ment knowing when to sacrifice someone else or yourself as bait for the win. Now all of a sudden, we've got these laser accurate gunning platforms sniping eachother out a 700m all over the map where one team gets decimated and you're all by yourself. What do you do? Answer: camp at altitude and one by one destroy the 7 remaining aircraft on the enemy team, and carry. At this point, the tier spread was reduced to +/-2, flights were reduced to 2, bots were predictable and plentiful, and most of the good players had left or reduced their play time. This isn't to say I was the bottom of a lowered and easier to reach barrel.


 

Closing aside: I remember going up against a player named Wolfblitz, who I recognized as a good player and who happened to be streaming at the time. And I love seeing myself in other people's WOWP videos because I get to see what it's like on the receiving side lol. Well, he was in a flight flying the P-51H and I was flying the Ta -152 and I had altitude over him but I still lost the match due to superiority (I was very impressed with his flying, and even thought he was using a joystick with the way he was dancing his plane around, turns out he was a mouse player like I was at the time). So I go back and watch his video and there I am, last player against his flight and I hear him say "Ok, now it's just us and the Ta (me, 2km or so in front of him)." [His flight mate's tag disappears] "Uh oh." XD


 

TL;DR

I miss 1.x and it's planes and players.:(


Edited by mnbv_fockewulfe, 15 September 2018 - 12:16 AM.

Be sure to check your logic privileges before posting on the forum.

 

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jack_wdw #8 Posted 15 September 2018 - 07:31 AM

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View Postmnbv_fockewulfe, on 15 September 2018 - 12:13 AM, said:

 

I miss 1.x and it's planes and players.:(

 

#me2

Vradin #9 Posted 15 September 2018 - 09:11 PM

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View Postmnbv_fockewulfe, on 14 September 2018 - 07:13 PM, said:

 

The Fw 190 A-5 was a beast, which I can safely claim to be the king of.:B

It was at the point I had brought my winrate in the plane from ~40% w/r to a 60% w/r with almost 1000 battles (nearly a whole 1/4 of my combat time). It was at the point I was literally getting at least an ace every battle (infact, it was my only plane in which I scored two Gorovetts=9 kills in a single battle).


 

Having been what I would consider a bit of a dog for most of the time I've had her, she was the plane I first learned BnZ in. I remember like it was yesterday. A Mosquito was bellow me and pulled up to get his guns on me. So I pulled up away from him and it just clicked. I waited for him to stall then turned around and got some good hits on him. Pulled back up, and someone else got the kill. Since then I perfected my technique and improved my decision making abilities, energy management skills, and gunner accuracy.


 

The (main) reason why I called her a dog was because of her altitude (her climbrate was second only to the corsair in her tier which was impaired by were low optimum), which as absolutely crippling compared to the other BnZers. She was the second worst BnZer, winning only over the Corsair and (hence being a BnZ plane) over the British LF, HF, Russian LF, MRF, and (particularly) GAA (which were a b**** to kill during the cannon nerf of 1.7-8), and Japanese LF.


 

Being as fast as a P-51A in optimum alt didn't help. You absolutely had to have more altitude then your equal tier opponents (yes, I have been shot down by Pancakes while flying the A-5) if you had any chance of surviving. You only had two defencive options: 1. Dive and use your vastly superior roll rate to dodge fire on the way down then extend away at low alt with the extra power you got from having a radial compared to inlines or; 2. Hit the brakes, hit the flaps, roll like a madman, and pray. Both of these methods rarely worked as they required great skill I hadn't acquired yet and a bit of luck to pull off.


 

Did I mention that the only planes you could out-turn were HF and GAA? "Turns like a brick and hits like one" was the most common condemnation and admiration of the plane. The only MRF that turned worse was the Fw 190D-9. Which says a lot about that plane (maybe another time). The only planes that could hit as hard were HF and at one time the Lagg 3 (once the most versatile aircraft in the game, they nerfed it's versatility in the great MRF nerf of 1.5, then made the heavy firepower version into a premium as an *u to the community). By the time of 1.8 my gunnery skills had increased dramatically. Before client side, I could be extremely sure of my shots, I'd even worked hard to upgrade my pilot's skills for an extra 10% accuracy as well as the gunsights which gave another 10%. While damage at long range had been nerfed to hell in 1.5-8, anything under 300m would melt instantly, within a 2 second burst of pulling the trigger. The most satisfying were catching someone in a stall, a sneaking up behind someone without them noticing (tunnel vision has the hardest habit to get rid of, and was a very real and dangerous thing to be aware of; players no longer can experience this due to bots evading instantly the second you get behind them, there's no satisfaction in sneaking up on a bot because you can't).


 

All the while these are 3v3, 3 tier spread, 3 man flights. All humans, humans in better planes (the P-51 and Bf 109G were king of T7), coordinated humans, and some of the best pilots I've gone up against. Then we got 1.9 with more powerful guns and bots.


 

Aside from getting used to the nerfed accuracy but better damage at long range, situational awareness was a whole 'nother skill I had to learn (an indirect buff to the 190's altitude along with more and better pilot skills stacked for speed helped). I had to go from tracking at most, 5 other aircraft, to 29. Yet I got good at it then I mastered carrying. In 3v3s, engagements could be over in a matter of seconds. It all depended on how good you were at working with you team members. Sometimes it even ment knowing when to sacrifice someone else or yourself as bait for the win. Now all of a sudden, we've got these laser accurate gunning platforms sniping eachother out a 700m all over the map where one team gets decimated and you're all by yourself. What do you do? Answer: camp at altitude and one by one destroy the 7 remaining aircraft on the enemy team, and carry. At this point, the tier spread was reduced to +/-2, flights were reduced to 2, bots were predictable and plentiful, and most of the good players had left or reduced their play time. This isn't to say I was the bottom of a lowered and easier to reach barrel.


 

Closing aside: I remember going up against a player named Wolfblitz, who I recognized as a good player and who happened to be streaming at the time. And I love seeing myself in other people's WOWP videos because I get to see what it's like on the receiving side lol. Well, he was in a flight flying the P-51H and I was flying the Ta -152 and I had altitude over him but I still lost the match due to superiority (I was very impressed with his flying, and even thought he was using a joystick with the way he was dancing his plane around, turns out he was a mouse player like I was at the time). So I go back and watch his video and there I am, last player against his flight and I hear him say "Ok, now it's just us and the Ta (me, 2km or so in front of him)." [His flight mate's tag disappears] "Uh oh." XD


 

TL;DR

I miss 1.x and it's planes and players.:(

 

   Agreed all on issues...except the "safely claim" of course :P

mnbv_fockewulfe #10 Posted 15 September 2018 - 11:45 PM

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View PostVradin, on 15 September 2018 - 09:11 PM, said:

 

   Agreed all on issues...except the "safely claim" of course :P

 

It's in the name.:medal:

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WafflesOfWrath #11 Posted 26 September 2018 - 03:43 AM

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The thunderbolts were some of the best 1.9 heavy killers in the game. Mine were at 84% WRs, the p-47B and N at t6/t7. Now they're trash and I never touch them.

The FW 190A-1 was barely usable when fully kitted out for speed, it's sucked since its inception and has needed a buff for years. Now it's even worse. The A-5 used to be good but now it has no performance ceiling.

How can WG say this is "balance" when the MRs are garbage... they can't even perform their ground attack role well because their ordnance cooldown takes forever and they're nowhere near as durable as attack planes. 

Doesn't WG have performance metrics? Can't they see how bad these planes are?

egikov #12 Posted 09 October 2018 - 05:46 PM

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I did suggest altitude increase for P-43 and P-47 in this thread:

http://forum.worldofwarplanes.com/index.php?/topic/51489-p-43-lancer-and-p-47-optimal-altitude-should-be-higher/page__fromsearch__1

I think WG doesn't want multi-roles have high altitude even if history says otherwise.






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