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I Don't Know, Guys, I'm Getting Frustrated


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Zaikadi #41 Posted 28 September 2018 - 01:24 AM

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Thanks, guys. I don't know how you two were able to get such high WRs. With this endless losing streak, mine is headed down toward 40%. I've been trying everything I can: learning from videos and forum suggestions, experimenting with different tactics. It's just that I'm only 8% of the team, and I haven't figured out how to significantly influence the results, as I can in WoWS and sometimes WoT, unless I am flying the Tier III and IV T&[edited]where I just kill lots of planes, sometimes winning by attrition.

I know I'm not great with the heavy fighters I've been grinding (toward Me 410), but the main problem is simply a lack of bots trying to take sectors, and if they eventually wake up (which they sometimes do), it's too late. The grind is not as fun as it was for other planes, so I'm thinking of using free XPs so I don't have to play the Bf 110 E anymore. I ground the Bf 110 B upgrades and the 110 E with absolutely no wins.

 

One thing I've noticed: if there is good communication between the human allies and me, the chance of winning is far higher.



ArrowZ_ #42 Posted 28 September 2018 - 01:47 AM

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The secret to this game and winning more than losing is identifying what you did wrong in the losses and adapting to learn from it and improving on your tactics and flying abilities. Ofcourse now with bots there's a higher chance of RNG with the outcome of the battle from start to finish. So it's true you can't always 100% influence the result of the match because of AI. Even worse if you have teammates who are also in the same boat of who is still learning as a newb. The losses become more pronounced as you go the higher tiers because it's the most common mistake most newbies do. They progress too quickly without understanding the basics of the mode, their aircraft, tactics to win, and learning how to win most dogfights against AI or players.

 

Now in your case, you may have touched in a few on those bolded words as you progressed through the tiers from Tier 1. But the key is to understand each one and incorporate them into ONE core playstyle that you are comfortable with. So we know TnB is the meta for 2.0. You jump into a zero/spitfire and TnB everything and kill them all in quick succession. Great! But what did you learn from this? Or how bout thinking of jumping into a different playstyle like the unpopular BnZ gamepaly, which is alot harder to learn and grasp for most newbies and require you to fly atleast 100-200 battles on the chosen BnZ plane. The most common scenario for newbie BnZ'ers is they dive down into a hot furball with a bunch of reds thinking they can get away with it (with 1.x you could do this - but not 2.0), then expect to boost straight up to avoid all the lasershow... little do they know the enemies also have boost and have quicker acceleration on the climb for a short period of time, enabling them to catch up to you in seconds.  This gets EVERY new BNZ player and they screw it up everytime. The key to a good BnZ? Patience. Something that 2.0 can't teach you and what 1.x taught many of us to be desciplined with. Because of the meta, 2.0 encourages you to jump into the fray and join the furballs. Big no no for a BnZ playstyle.

 

Anyway I could write like a whole essay about this and dumping all my experience in 1.x battles about the 2 major playstyles of TnB and BnZ. But I really don't want to. Too lazy...

 

What's important for you as a player to realize at this point is you're still at the early stage of the learning curve. And there's still much to grasp from alot of these 2.0 battles. I argue tactics haven't changed much between 1.x and 2.0. The only major difference is sectors are now involved. But grouping, target priorities, BnZ vs TnB engagements, speed control, strengths and weaknesses of aircrafts etc... still all remain the same from 1.x.

 

Get into flights with someone who's good at talking you through the battles and giving you tips. It's the best way to learn nowadays. I'd be happy to help but my game time is basically reduced to 0 due to a multitude of reasons, main one being I've lost interest on this game after 2.0.5 for obvious reasons. And that I have work commitments during the weekends and weekdays.

 

But feel free to add me or anyone here and ask for advice in-game or get in discord and just have a chat with some of the old-timers who can share some of their experiences with ya.

 

Losing consistently and getting into losing streaks with the current design of the game isn't mainly the game's fault. If I can maintain a 70+% winrate just by exploiting bots and obvious AI tactics. Then so can you!

 

I'll give you a not-so-obvious but glaring gameplay tip that changes alot of my battles from losses into wins ->

You see those mini-groups of enemy bots GAs rushing to your sectors? Don't wait for them to get into your sector. Take them out. The RNG in these GA bots being able to cap sectors from 1-2 seconds to a minute is unpredictable at best so you can't leave it by chance. Just destroy them at first glance and maintain control of your sectors. This is how you keep your influence points up and result in wins. If you leave this to your team or you don't act on it you will put yourself at the mercy of the RNG of bots and most of the time ends up in a bad loss. All because you didn't make the necessary decision to combat a pretty exploitable part of the AI in this game. So take chances like these by the "ballz" and steal whatever win you can get, whether it be low personal points or a really high points game.

 

Sorry long poast heh...

TLDR: Don't get down on losing streaks. They happen because you're still learning. Jump into flights with people who know what they're doing. Pick their brains out and learn from their experiences. Do the same and profit!


Edited by ArrowZ_, 28 September 2018 - 01:59 AM.

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Zaikadi #43 Posted 28 September 2018 - 03:40 AM

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ArrowZ,

 

I read the whole thing. :medal:  Thank you for the time and effort. I trust your opinions.

 

I wanted to comment first on the last bit about the GAs. I was actually doing what you described. In fact I was rather a GA hunter, but I have been reluctant lately, just as I have for attacking bomber flights. I felt like it was taking a lot of time, and I wasn't sure if it wasn't better spent shooting down the planes in the sectors to take possession. While I was reducing the loss of our sectors, I was not helping in claiming new sectors. As an experiment, I have also been focusing less on the enemy planes (except for opportunities) and more on the defensive planes because they seem to be the key to taking possession of the sectors. Once the sector goes over, then I turn to the surviving enemy planes.

 

I'm not terrible at the P-40 and Bf 109 E, which I don't consider T&B. While I might not be using effective B&Z tactics with them, I have had quite a bit of success with my intuition. On the other hand, I have a lot to learn about heavy fighters. At low tiers, I have done well, but the higher I go in tiers, the less I'm able to accomplish with them. I wouldn't care that much, except that I'm intrigued by the Me 410.

 

I don't think the flying and shooting are my main problems. I say this because if I am using a slow T&B and stay in one sector to defend, or if I'm using a P-40, Bf 109 E, or the Ki-84, I am damaging and shooting down planes all game (usually 8-14 kills). It's just that the team still loses, and I feel like I haven't contributed, just had fun blowing up things. What I need to learn most is the strategy and priorities so that my efforts will contribute to victory.

 

I'll take your suggestions seriously.:honoring:


Edited by Zaikadi, 28 September 2018 - 03:40 AM.


ArrowZ_ #44 Posted 28 September 2018 - 05:45 AM

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View PostZaikadi, on 28 September 2018 - 01:10 PM, said:

It's just that the team still loses, and I feel like I haven't contributed, just had fun blowing up things. What I need to learn most is the strategy and priorities so that my efforts will contribute to victory.

 

And that's really the main focus for improvement in your gameplay (having not seen many replays on your side of videos). Video form of how one flies really is the best way to gauge where the rights & wrongs are being done in battle. In a TnB it's easy to get carried away when blowing stuff up in the air cause you feel like "god" shooting down everything in seconds. I mean why would you want to do anything else in that battle. Many in this situation would think "wow! I'm doing so great at killing all these incoming enemy fighters being camped in this one sector I can practically do this all day!". All the while on the other parts of the map your enemy has engulfed your flanks with the other sectors and you're for the most part "surrounded" and lost the advantage in initiative to push sectors. One of the many situations I see in TnB gameplay that I also fall into from time to time.

 

Incorporating strategy is key to winning, this is true. That's why I shared what most likely everyone have figured out by now - Those GAs and their predictable behaviours and movement patterns around the map. You'll pick up patterns in their actions and movements the more you observe the goings on in the map. It's very easy to become "tunnel visioned" outside of looking at the map because of poor UI design. So as part of the learning curve now you have to learn to adapt and be more aware of the current tools that you have. What I do and may help you is I max out the range on the map+radar thing on the bottom right so I can see as many sectors as I can without having to rely too much on TABBING just to see the map. I got used to this and guess what? My awareness improved almost 100% to what it once was pre-2.0. Try it and you might like the change.

 

Anyway. Like I said. Essays... :D

 

But I do enjoy sharing my experiences and teaching a few while I can before I too get sick of these forums and not just the game.


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Captain_Underpants53 #45 Posted 28 September 2018 - 09:13 AM

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I have had long losing streaks.  With as many battles as I have it takes a lot to move the win% needle one way or the other.  But long winning streaks?  Rarely seen.  I get angry which makes me stubborn and more determined.  I don't know if that is good or bad because I get a 'heck with the wins' attitude.  Probably not fair to my team and one reason I rarely flight up.

 

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pyantoryng #46 Posted 28 September 2018 - 11:23 AM

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I've had the latter half of CBT and the entire OBT to accumulate flight hour (about 99% solo though)...with the field being utterly unequal it becomes really painful to accumulate flight hour without great frustration. The stats wipe that came with 2.0 turned me from a 52% into 67%. New players do not have such luxury, so don't sweat it with the numbers.

 

Actually, one of the keys to Conquest is to know what is best done to capture a sector as quickly as possible. You may find that downing a contesting enemy/defenders will flip the sector instantly while you need two or more NPC defense planes for the same result, or even finish off a target in your *light* fighter to flip the sector before any more casualty happens. It boils down to reduce the red/fill with blue as fast as possible, while contesting may or may not put a spanner into that. Defending or contesting has its risk, as you may capture quicker or hold the sector for longer but you may end up contributing towards your enemy's capturing/defense by getting killed inside the circle without scoring the equal number to compensate for it. Capturing sectors quickly also "free up" your bots to go elsewhere to make offense or defense...on their whims, of course, but more airframes are, in most cases, better than less.

 

...and when you are going to do battle, that is where your piloting skills come in (which others did a better job on that). Try to get a grasp on how capture mechanism works as you better yourself as a pilot.



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GonerNL #47 Posted 28 September 2018 - 11:45 AM

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View PostZaikadi, on 27 September 2018 - 11:48 PM, said:

 Really, is this game trying to turn me away? It really seems like someone hates me at WG.

 

I get that feeling a lot lately ... no matter what I do, my team keeps losing.

And I simply do not believe that I am (or can be) the deciding factor in victory/defeat. Yes, I can contribute, but not decide. There are 23 other humans and bots and I can not influence either. I get the feeling it's just a lottery and sometimes I'm lucky and often I'm not ... I get the stupid bots who do nothing, the plane I picked is useless for the map I get, matchmaking  puts me against uptiered pilots/flights etc etc.


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Zaikadi #48 Posted 28 September 2018 - 10:52 PM

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I had a battle on Wednesday in which I was the only human on my team, and the other team had two humans in a Flight. Guess what happened?

 

Today was a little better than the past few. I had about equal wins and losses (which of course doesn't make up for five days of almost all losses). The most recent one was a win, and it unlocked the Me 410 (finally). So, it sits in my garage with my free +5 Bf 110 C-6 crew. Now, I have to start another thread to ask how which skills to give them :trollface:


 

Being on a winning team made playing much easier, and I could actually carry out a strategy with sufficient support (I was using a heavy fighter). The players actually communicated with each other!


Edited by Zaikadi, 28 September 2018 - 11:00 PM.


SenatorTH #49 Posted 29 September 2018 - 02:39 AM

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View PostZaikadi, on 28 September 2018 - 10:52 PM, said:

I had a battle on Wednesday in which I was the only human on my team, and the other team had two humans in a Flight.

 

I can hardly believe in that, # of humans is always equal.

Captain_Underpants53 #50 Posted 29 September 2018 - 04:39 AM

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View PostSenatorTH, on 28 September 2018 - 09:39 PM, said:

 

I can hardly believe in that, # of humans is always equal.

Believe it you will when it happens to you.  The game does sometimes treat a flight as one person.  It has done this as long as I can remember.

 

:facepalm:


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Zaikadi #51 Posted 29 September 2018 - 05:40 AM

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View PostSenatorTH, on 29 September 2018 - 02:39 AM, said:

 

I can hardly believe in that, # of humans is always equal.

 

All of the members of my team had simple surnames that matched the language of the plane's origin, and there were no clickable + marks next to the names in the results screen. No human chat occurred during the battle. I was lonely.

Edited by Zaikadi, 29 September 2018 - 05:42 AM.


LMG #52 Posted 29 September 2018 - 05:48 AM

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View PostSenatorTH, on 28 September 2018 - 09:39 PM, said:

I can hardly believe in that, # of humans is always equal.

 

The game can indeed put a flight against a single player, not sure if that's due to the flight being too long in queue, the player being too long in queue or both. I even recorded a match where I had that happen on my IL-40 :amazed:


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SpiritFoxMY #53 Posted 29 September 2018 - 08:59 AM

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I've been in matches where I was flighted up against a solo player.

 

I've had matches where the solo player won...


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GonerNL #54 Posted 29 September 2018 - 02:39 PM

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Or solo against an up-tiered flight ...
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Zaikadi #55 Posted 29 September 2018 - 06:48 PM

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View PostGonerNL, on 29 September 2018 - 02:39 PM, said:

Or solo against an up-tiered flight ...

 

I didn't even check for this in my case!

trikke #56 Posted 30 September 2018 - 01:28 PM

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View PostZaikadi, on 27 September 2018 - 11:40 PM, said:

I'm not terrible at the P-40 and Bf 109 E, which I don't consider T&B. While I might not be using effective B&Z tactics with them, I have had quite a bit of success with my intuition. On the other hand, I have a lot to learn about heavy fighters. At low tiers, I have done well, but the higher I go in tiers, the less I'm able to accomplish with them. 

 

I wouldn't care that much, except that I'm intrigued by the Me 410.

 

I'll take your suggestions seriously.:honoring:

 

i cannot remember...

 

did we mention that when you buy a new tech tree plane, make sure that you have enough XP left to max out the engines, guns, etc before you fly it?

 

or at least don't make a judgment call on how well that plane performs until it's fully upped? (upgraded)

 

many expert pilots can fly a bone stock plane and still punish you, but most of us cannot 

 

i always start by upping the engines on heavies first, then guns...  but many do the opposite


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CorvusCorvax #57 Posted 30 September 2018 - 06:12 PM

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View PostGonerNL, on 29 September 2018 - 02:39 PM, said:

Or solo against an up-tiered flight ...

 

That happened to me this weekend.

CorvusCorvax #58 Posted 30 September 2018 - 06:26 PM

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View PostZaikadi, on 28 September 2018 - 10:52 PM, said:

I had a battle on Wednesday in which I was the only human on my team, and the other team had two humans in a Flight. Guess what happened?

 

Today was a little better than the past few. I had about equal wins and losses (which of course doesn't make up for five days of almost all losses). The most recent one was a win, and it unlocked the Me 410 (finally). So, it sits in my garage with my free +5 Bf 110 C-6 crew. Now, I have to start another thread to ask how which skills to give them :trollface:


 

Being on a winning team made playing much easier, and I could actually carry out a strategy with sufficient support (I was using a heavy fighter). The players actually communicated with each other!

 

As it happens, I am a huge fan of German heavy fighters.  In addition, I am a huge fan of the Me-410.  I think it's my best plane, and I always turn to it when I want to have fun.  It has the juice to kick bomber azz, then swoop down and polish off GAA, then jump back up to bomber altitude.

 

I would be happy to flight up with you so that we can increase the win rate for each of us.  Flighted Me-410s should scare the poop out of anyone on T6, and concern folks on T7.  Flighted AND with voice comms?  LOL, good luck against that pair.  You better pray for some uber-bots on your team.

 

One of the ways to fly that is absolute death for the enemy is to fly 500m apart, and when you a red plane tries to get on the six of one of them, he turns away from his flight mate - and his flight mate turns in the same direction.  The red plane pilot is licking his chops at the turn fight he'll win.  Except this is a "drag" - the lead -410 is dragging the red plane for the trail pilot to send down in flames.

 

Flying the pair in trail works the same way, except you have to have a bit more separation.  If the lead plane is attacked, the trail plane hoses the attacker.  If the trail plane is attacked, the lead plane makes an Immelmann and gives the attacker a head-to-head pass.  Two 410s can offer mutual cover even against a flighted pair of light fighters.  I have only ever had trouble when I was out of altitude and boost.  Tornadoes and P-47s can light you up if you get down in the weeds. And it's easy to begin to get overconfident flying the -410.  Another aircraft that can really ruin your day is a well-flown P-38J.  They are fast, have great guns, and can out-turn you.  When you go up against them, you HAVE to crit an engine or a wing if you want to even have a chance.



Zaikadi #59 Posted 01 October 2018 - 02:35 AM

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The first impression I had of the Me 410 was that I survived the first battle without dying, shot down 6, captured 2 sectors, and scored second highest on my team. And it was completely stock. I thought that it must be pretty great if it can fight like that without the massive guns and high speed it's known for. I have since elited it, and bought skills for both of the crew with all of the +5 points (each). This is the same crew I acquired due to a bug in the system that gave me a free Bf 110 C-6.

http://forum.worldofwarplanes.com/index.php?/topic/53754-where-did-that-come-from/

 

It would be great to Flight up with Corvus (Raven?) sometime. I don't think I've ever seen two Me 410s together. The Me 410 is great until it is left alone and faces multiple light fighters.

 

Trikke, I actually could have fully upgraded the plane with free XPs, but I only have 125,000. I'm saving it for WoT, where it is a lot more crucial.



ArrowZ_ #60 Posted 01 October 2018 - 02:53 AM

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Flight Me410s was the norm back in 1.x. People complain about balance now with 2.0... lol. A fully kitted Me410 can do lots of damage to the enemy. I'm sure much of the same still applies today.

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