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Prenzlau #41 Posted 08 August 2018 - 03:06 PM

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Oh ComradeZ, sucking up won't do you any good! But.... I compliment you on your honesty and integrity. 

"Vomit in your mouth", am I really so repulsive? The search for truth is not always a smooth process where things don't get broke. Sometimes ego's get bruised, feelings might get hurt, falsehoods might get exposed, but it is worth it in the end. 

I have to ask? Which is worse? Prenzlau in the RB-17 on the other team, or Prenzlau in the forums doing, well what I usually do?

 

Prenzlau


Edited by Prenzlau, 08 August 2018 - 03:10 PM.

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mnbv_fockewulfe #42 Posted 08 August 2018 - 03:22 PM

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View PostAnimal_of_Pryale, on 08 August 2018 - 07:37 AM, said:

 

Nonsense.  Just in Tier VIII which is the tier of the RB-17.

RB-17

Cruise speed: 400

Boost speed: 800


 

P. 1056

Cruise speed: 580

Boost speed: 820

2 X 40mm

4 X 20mm


 

Me 109 TL

Cruise speed: 485

Boost speed: 825

2 X 30mm

2X 20mm


 

XP 58

Cruise speed: 600

Boost speed: 780

4 X 37 mm

 


 I-250

Cruise speed: 460

Boost speed: 790

2 X 23 mm

1 X 37 mm


 

Any of these planes can make quick work of an RB-17. And that's just tier VIII.


 

Rock thinks Paper is OP, Paper thinks Scissors is OP, Scissors think Rock is OP.


 


 


 


 


 


 

 

Boost times and acceleration *cough cough*

You are also forgetting equipment and the like.


Edited by mnbv_fockewulfe, 08 August 2018 - 03:27 PM.

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mnbv_fockewulfe #43 Posted 08 August 2018 - 03:25 PM

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And there is debate whether wowp should be a hard counter or soft counter game.

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Prenzlau #44 Posted 08 August 2018 - 03:49 PM

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View Postmnbv_fockewulfe, on 08 August 2018 - 09:22 AM, said:

 

Boost times and acceleration *cough cough*

You are also forgetting equipment and the like.

The price for increased acceleration is over 20% boost time reduction. Also hard points slow my RB-17 down. The various combinations of equipment can be debated.

I did everything I could to get you to actually fly and play this game again so I could get better feedback from you, and I also made an honest effort to be civil and friendly to you on a personal level. You repaid that effort by dishing out some cheap shots. 

 

Prenzlau


Edited by Prenzlau, 08 August 2018 - 03:49 PM.

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CorvusCorvax #45 Posted 08 August 2018 - 04:15 PM

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View Postmnbv_fockewulfe, on 08 August 2018 - 03:22 PM, said:

 

Boost times and acceleration *cough cough*

You are also forgetting equipment and the like.

 

Interesting.  How many RB-17s have you shot down?  Human-operated RB-17s can be killed just like any other aircraft.  Low-flying, high-flying - it doesn't matter.  If you know how to attack it, and with what aircraft, they can be shot down pretty quickly.  First, a front-hemisphere pass to knock out an engine.  Immelmann and come down on top to shoot the other engine or the wing.  Once you damage an RB-17's wing, even an Me-262 feels like a Spitfire in comparison.  Stay out of the rear cone of fire and these guys are meat on the table, no matter what equipment and consumables they are running.  Yes, you do need a fast aircraft to counter them.  And a fast aircraft that has cannon is a real benefit.  But once you knock out an engine, these aircraft are dead-slow.  Damage the wing, and they can't turn.  Damage the gunner, and you can camp behind them all day.  Doesn't require gold ammo.  Doesn't even require universal (but universal helps).

 

Theory is great, but practical knowledge trumps it in this case.



Prenzlau #46 Posted 08 August 2018 - 04:25 PM

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View PostCorvusCorvax, on 08 August 2018 - 10:15 AM, said:

 

Interesting.  How many RB-17s have you shot down?  Human-operated RB-17s can be killed just like any other aircraft.  Low-flying, high-flying - it doesn't matter.  If you know how to attack it, and with what aircraft, they can be shot down pretty quickly.  First, a front-hemisphere pass to knock out an engine.  Immelmann and come down on top to shoot the other engine or the wing.  Once you damage an RB-17's wing, even an Me-262 feels like a Spitfire in comparison.  Stay out of the rear cone of fire and these guys are meat on the table, no matter what equipment and consumables they are running.  Yes, you do need a fast aircraft to counter them.  And a fast aircraft that has cannon is a real benefit.  But once you knock out an engine, these aircraft are dead-slow.  Damage the wing, and they can't turn.  Damage the gunner, and you can camp behind them all day.  Doesn't require gold ammo.  Doesn't even require universal (but universal helps).

 

Theory is great, but practical knowledge trumps it in this case.

Well said! Some of the most effective RB killers are the very same ones who fly the RB and understand it's weak spots and angles. I agree with your insight. 

Notice once you confront (previous) assertions with fact and you call them out, they magically disappear and you don't hear from them. 

Thanks Corvus.

 

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CorvusCorvax #47 Posted 08 August 2018 - 04:28 PM

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View PostPrenzlau, on 08 August 2018 - 04:25 PM, said:

 Some of the most effective RB killers are the very same ones who fly the RB and understand it's weak spots and angles.

 

Having had my butt handed to me on a platter by folks who know how to counter this aircraft, I know quite a bit about how to take one down.  :)



mnbv_fockewulfe #48 Posted 08 August 2018 - 05:19 PM

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You seem to miss the point that the shooting down part isn't the main issue.

It's the out-capping meta that is in favor of the of the RB-17 and is the issue. 

Anyone without a 200IQ can understand this just by reading the thread.

Try listening to the likes of Reit, who has far more battles than a lot of people in this thread combined and knows what he's talking about.


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CorvusCorvax #49 Posted 08 August 2018 - 06:00 PM

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View Postmnbv_fockewulfe, on 08 August 2018 - 05:19 PM, said:

You seem to miss the point that the shooting down part isn't the main issue.

It's the out-capping meta that is in favor of the of the RB-17 and is the issue. 

Anyone without a 200IQ can understand this just by reading the thread.

Try listening to the likes of Reit, who has far more battles than a lot of people in this thread combined and knows what he's talking about.

 

How do you prevent an RB-17 from capping?

 

Shoot it down.

 

It seems unlikely that anyone with a sub-75 IQ would have trouble with that one.



Cenotaph #50 Posted 08 August 2018 - 09:31 PM

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I believe the point that is being missed... is that there are very few, if any, other planes that force you to focus on them for the entire match to prevent a loss.

 

The best Spit player in the world can only affect so much... and intelligent map play can render him largely ineffectual, you can even get away with ignoring him to further your own plan.

 

However, the RB-17 is going to be boosting all over the map, flipping caps in a single pass, and relocating to another cap faster than literally any other plane can manage, due to boost duration.

 

Glossing over this obvious point makes the rest of your argument pretty disingenuous... you know what people are trying to say, and you're straw manning and cherry picking to support your case.

 

Do everyone a favour and figure out the difference between "your" and "you're" ... it makes your pseudo-intellectual blather rather self defeating.


Edited by Cenotaph, 08 August 2018 - 09:46 PM.

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Prenzlau #51 Posted 09 August 2018 - 02:53 AM

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View PostCenotaph, on 08 August 2018 - 03:31 PM, said:

I believe the point that is being missed... is that there are very few, if any, other planes that force you to focus on them for the entire match to prevent a loss.

 

The best Spit player in the world can only affect so much... and intelligent map play can render him largely ineffectual, you can even get away with ignoring him to further your own plan.

 

However, the RB-17 is going to be boosting all over the map, flipping caps in a single pass, and relocating to another cap faster than literally any other plane can manage, due to boost duration.

 

Glossing over this obvious point makes the rest of your argument pretty disingenuous... you know what people are trying to say, and you're straw manning and cherry picking to support your case.

 

Do everyone a favour and figure out the difference between "your" and "you're" ... it makes your pseudo-intellectual blather rather self defeating.

 

I actually have no great interest in getting into a pointless ego brawl with you and ridiculous posturing. So I will do my best to keep this civil and respectful. 

 

Your point.

 

I believe the point that is being missed... is that there are very few, if any, other planes that force you to focus on them for the entire match to prevent a loss.

 

   Yes, sometimes, possibly. What we have is an imbalanced game, with imbalanced planes, and imbalanced players, plus imbalanced bots and maps. So when you click battle, it is somewhat like a big slot machine, and sometimes the table is set for you and your team to have a quick victory, and sometimes not. If indeed your point is correct, then I as an excellent RB-17 player should be unstoppable and uncounterable. I will concede that if I am playing, or flighted with another player, I would consider myself to be a threat to the other team, BUT not solely because I'm in an RB-17, but also because of the skill and experience that I employ. That said, I know full well as do others that I get shot down and harassed all the time, and not every battle is domination, not by far is it like that. I cannot agree that the RB-17 is always specifically a threat, so much that the other team has to take drastic action or lose, especially if the Rb-17 player is simply statistically average or worse. This seems to be a clear debatable subject. My counter point, however, and this is something people are refusing to debate and discuss, is that there are players themselves who create the same effect, no matter what plane they fly, they force the other team into the same decision as to their game focus. In addition, I believe the benefit you receive from certain planes is exacerbated by the level of skill that the human player has. Therefore, if you have a noob in an RB-17, the statistical boost from flying that plane will be quite minimal and could even be detrimental if they don't know what they are doing. An average RB-17 player will receive some benefit and that maybe or may not be enough to influence a battle, depending on so many outstanding factors. Now an excellent RB-17 player will gain a far greater advantage, because they will use the plane to a higher potential. I could make this same argument for any other plane. 

    Back to my counter point. The statistical occurrence of encountering an excellent RB-17 player or flight, is less than encountering "any over powered" player in any other plane, who might have the same effect, as your assertion, because there are simply more "over powered" players at any given time, in this game than excellent RB-17 players. I define an "over powered" player as someone who can influence and alter a battle, and thus they have an outstanding win percentage, usually over 75%, and statistically they dominate battle the same way the RB-17 is accused of. So if we are going to seriously debate and have an intelligent discussion over the RB-17, or other planes and the effect they have on battles, then it is only fair to expand the discussion to include other very similar elements that cause a similar and greater effect. It is hypocritical for a statistically "over powered" player to assert that a plane is "over powered" and has a certain effect, when they themselves as a player have the same effect or greater. Both assertions indeed may share a joint truth, with a lot of circumstantial gray. 

 

Your next point.

 

The best Spit player in the world can only affect so much... and intelligent map play can render him largely ineffectual, you can even get away with ignoring him to further your own plan.

 

    I'm sorry, I simply cannot agree with this. I've tried to ignore BEARSS when he played in his uber-spit 1, and the results were always overwhelming. I've seen great players take over battles in their best planes and reap devastation on some of the teams that I have been on. Battles against your clan, HVAR, and it's members commonly go only one way, in the loss column. It does not matter who I am flighted with, what plane I am flying or what map, I get the pleasure of a win maybe 10% of the time. This reinforces my point that "over powered" players have a greater effect than the mechanics of any plane, and the frequency of these imbalanced in game matches are all too common. When you are an "over powered" player or in a clan full of like minded attitudes with other "over powered" players, you say things like your above statement. That might be easy for you and your clan mates, BUT it is totally unrealistic for the vast majority of players. Are you honestly saying that if anyone in your clan HVAR is ignored in any battle, that the other team will somehow benefit from that plan??? I think not.

 

Next point.

 

However, the RB-17 is going to be boosting all over the map, flipping caps in a single pass, and relocating to another cap faster than literally any other plane can manage, due to boost duration.

 

Again, yes, sometimes and possibly, depending on so many circumstantial factors. In general, yes the RB-17 is very effective at flipping caps and boosting to the next one. I would like to also point out that as a low flying bomber player, I do the exact same thing with the A-26B, and Do 217M. So are those bombers "over powered" as well, or is it the player and their skill or both? Truth be told, it is easier to "one pass" and flip a full cap in the Do 217M. If you want to discuss speed, the A-26B and Do 217M might have a greater advantage over other tier 6 planes than the RB-17 has over other tier 8 planes. With all due respect, I think the reality is more complicated than your one sentence assertion. On my RB-17 I have a fast acceleration from the ultimate turbine, BUT I also have a penalty of over 20% decrease in boost time. So that gives the appearance of a faster plane over a short distance, however, when my boost is exhausted, my cruise speed is far below 400 kph due to other equipment like hard points. If any part of my RB-17 gets damaged, especially an engine as Corvus pointed out, the RB-17 is a big sitting duck. 

 

Next point.

 

Glossing over this obvious point makes the rest of your argument pretty disingenuous... you know what people are trying to say, and you're straw manning and cherry picking to support your case.

 

    No I am not. I'm addressing all points and making some points of my own. What is being glossed over is my arguments and observations on "over powered" players, but when your one of them or part of a group of them, I can see why this might be avoided as a topic for discussion. Your statement is not entirely fair and if you wish to elaborate, please feel free to do so, if you can do it in a civil and respectful way. I've taken some of my time to sit and articulate my points and reply to your assertions. My support for my "case" has not just been any "cherry picking" on my part, but you are ignoring the feedback and replies from other people as well. If you want to have a serious discussion or debate, it has to be more than a few sentences and far more elaboration. 

 

Prenzlau

 


Edited by Prenzlau, 09 August 2018 - 03:05 AM.

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Cenotaph #52 Posted 09 August 2018 - 03:30 AM

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BEARSS is usually VERY easy to deal with, because he takes up residence in a single point and farms it the whole match, just don't go there...  :sceptic:

 

Also, Spits don't move sector to sector at 800kph...

 

And herein lies one of the biggest issues with the game... If I'm considered an OP player, this game really is dead... because I barely know what I'm doing.

 

No, really... there's a reason my title on HVAR Discord is "Token Baddie". Perhaps if you didn't let your ego control your fingers you'd be able to confirm that for yourself.

 

Kudos for using "Your" correctly for once however, progress... :great:


Edited by Cenotaph, 09 August 2018 - 03:32 AM.

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GeorgePatton #53 Posted 09 August 2018 - 03:42 AM

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I have three issues with the RB-17:

 

  1. The ability to basically one-pass a base,
  2. The long boost time with boost speed well above other tier 8 aircraft - especially at altitude which the RB can get better than most other aircraft. Sure, there are other aircraft that have a higher (marginally) boost speed, but the boost time allows the RB to outrun things over time and it has the HP pool to sustain that.
  3. The TG range being longer than many forward-firing weapons at tier 8.

 

 

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Prenzlau #54 Posted 09 August 2018 - 04:39 AM

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View PostCenotaph, on 08 August 2018 - 09:30 PM, said:

BEARSS is usually VERY easy to deal with, because he takes up residence in a single point and farms it the whole match, just don't go there...  :sceptic:

 

Also, Spits don't move sector to sector at 800kph...

 

And herein lies one of the biggest issues with the game... If I'm considered an OP player, this game really is dead... because I barely know what I'm doing.

 

No, really... there's a reason my title on HVAR Discord is "Token Baddie". Perhaps if you didn't let your ego control your fingers you'd be able to confirm that for yourself.

 

Kudos for using "Your" correctly for once however, progress... :great:

 

I'm very sorry but I cannot have an intelligent and meaningful discussion or even a conversation with you because you just throw things out there to the wind and refuse to address points with any detailed logic or thoughts, without any real idea of what you are talking about. You are right, you're a second tier HVAR by your own admission, so your not the one to talk with on anything "over powered". I spend way too much time trying to have something of a debate or discord with you, and I'm not going to waste any more of my time on you. I think this is very fair.

 

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Cenotaph #55 Posted 09 August 2018 - 04:58 AM

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View PostPrenzlau, on 08 August 2018 - 08:39 PM, said:

 

I'm very sorry but I cannot have an intelligent and meaningful discussion or even a conversation with you because you just throw things out there to the wind and refuse to address points with any detailed logic or thoughts, without any real idea of what you are talking about.

 

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Prenzlau #56 Posted 09 August 2018 - 05:15 AM

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View PostGeorgePatton, on 08 August 2018 - 09:42 PM, said:

I have three issues with the RB-17:

 

  1. The ability to basically one-pass a base,
  2. The long boost time with boost speed well above other tier 8 aircraft - especially at altitude which the RB can get better than most other aircraft. Sure, there are other aircraft that have a higher (marginally) boost speed, but the boost time allows the RB to outrun things over time and it has the HP pool to sustain that.
  3. The TG range being longer than many forward-firing weapons at tier 8.

 

 

Cheers!
Glenn

 

 

Hello George. 

 

    I have "one passed" caps in the RB-17, IF they are already depleted in strength, I have once or twice done it at full strength which is a real feat, and I think the only cap that you can do that to, is the mine or industrial plant. To one pass that you have to destroy the center, large target with one bomb drop, and then take out two more targets. There are two ways to accomplish this, get very lucky with one precision bomb drop on the center, or purchase the higher powered bombs and hope you hit it just right. Either way, it takes skill and some luck to do it. I usually two pass these caps, if I am alone. Two bombers working together can "one pass" any cap. Also, because the Do 217M has 8 bomb drops, it is easier to "one pass" an cap if you hit five targets, or possibly four, assuming the cap is not already depleted. A lot of human players struggle with their timing and are not as precise to "one pass' caps, much less "two pass them".

    Again, I suggest if anyone really wants to find out what life is like flying the RB-17, then please be my guest. If you get battles with another human and all bots, and you get the feeling of power and freedom, then to be honest that is not a fair environment to test the RB-17. If you get into a battle with 5 or 6 humans per side and some of those human players are skilled and dangerous, then the bar for the Rb-17 comes way down. It is then not so easy to cap and even survive. The problem here is, I'm the only Rb-17 player except for some insights from Corvus, that is commenting on the RB-17 on this thread. I respect your assertion, but I cannot agree with the idea that the RB-17's HP pool is enough, it is not. A tier 8 heavy fighter commonly rips the RB-17 to shreds, especially if it gets close. I know exactly what I am talking about because I fly it a lot, I know all the situations and have been through them. You don't have any bomber players coming out and saying the RB-17 is "over powered" because they know better.

    The tail gun is an effective weapon, and if used with skill it can devastate targets, especially light fighters and multi-roles that get caught behind. That said, the tail gun is vulnerable and often gets taken out by opposing fire, and against heavies, it does not take them down fast enough, same with ground attacks, so if an enemy heavy gets too close to the RB, advantage heavy. That tail gun is the only real defense for the bomber, it's firing arc is not universal, it has it's limitations and blind spot, and yes I know exactly where that is. I know exactly where to sit behind an RB and it cannot shoot me. It is quite true that the range of the tail gun is impressive, but again, it is a single gun and it has it's limitations. I think the vast majority of players think the RB-17 is "over powered" because they truly don't have a good idea on how to attack it or deal with it, and they think because it is a bomber that they might make quick work of it, so they get careless and foolish. I have seen first hand players who have changed their tactics and learned to effectively attack and kill RB-17's by simply having many battle against them. I also have seen players who fall into the same repeated failed tactics of trying to shoot the RB-17 down from behind at distances where their guns simply are not accurate or effective, but they don't realize this and simply die. 

    I'm only asking people to seriously consider my insights, from someone who flies the RB-17 and has much battle experience in one. Is it a truly interesting and wonderful higher tier bomber, yes it is. I will keep repeating this as long as I have to, the RB-17 is what it is, by itself, it is the player who is flying it that really makes it a dangerous and effective plane. You can say that with a lot of planes, and other bombers as well. The main purpose of the bomber is to capture sectors! If some players are able to fly a bomber and make it effective at capturing sectors, then maybe some reflection should take place on the tactics of other planes. If you look at my bomber stats, I'm very effective in every bomber! 

    Thanks for you post George, I really appreciate it.

 

Prenzlau


Edited by Prenzlau, 09 August 2018 - 05:24 AM.

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Blast_Radius1 #57 Posted 09 August 2018 - 08:29 AM

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View PostJuanMendoza, on 08 August 2018 - 07:34 AM, said:

 

 

Then why don't  see you flying an I-220 or J7W1?

 

Because you know they are underpowered.

 

Just as you KNOW the RB is OP.

 

Disingenuity does not justify seal-clubbing.

 

No, I have to jump in here, mate. First, why would ANYONE fly a plane they know is underpowered?

Second, I don't think you can call any playstyle seal clubbing at tier 8. By the time people climb to tier 8 they should know enough to figure out how to beat an RB17 crop duster, or get an RB17 themselves.

Oh, and credit to Prenzlau on another excellent wind-up thread, you really get them going, bro.


Edited by Blast_Radius1, 09 August 2018 - 08:42 AM.


Reitousair #58 Posted 09 August 2018 - 09:43 AM

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Disclaimer: I'm talking about low-alt RB-17 here and am referring to high-level play where some of the best pilots are utilizing their planes to the near maximum.

 

It appears people are talking past each other here and points are not coming across correctly (along with misconceptions from both sides.) 

 

The RB-17 at low-alt is a plane that holds incredible potential power that lets it far exceed anything most other planes can do when it comes to influencing a match.

 

Players do make the plane work, however not all planes have the same abilities to effect the outcome of a match, just because somebody can kick [edited] in an I-210 or Bf-109 G does not make them excellent top-tier planes. The RB-17 has the capabilities to absolutely dominate matches with capping speed far exceeding any other plane in its tier.

 

However, the RB-17 IS NOT a plane that can simply 1-pass any cap, three ordinance loads is only enough for at best 6-8 light targets (which requires insane speed, timing, and precision.) The only points an RB-17 can do this are mining plants and strongholds (maybe neutral military bases if they're ultra-good,) and before anybody brings up "well just gunner ADA after your pass" you will likely only get one ADA kill, which will still usually be too little to 1-pass an area.

 

The RB-17 plane IS NOT an unkillable plane. While it's a struggle to intercept them they are indeed killable. I know how to kill RB-17's and usually don't struggle much to kill them when I'm in some of my faster aircraft (CHINAH NUMBAH WAN) or most tier 9's, but we're talking within tier 8 here so we'll discard "just bring a tier 9."

         However, their insane sustained speed makes them very challenging to intercept and requires planning ahead, there's no hope of catching one once it flies past you unless you have a ginormous altitude advantage, or are already attacking it. The gunner can make this challenging and thus renders a lot of aircraft unfit for intercepting an RB-17 due to the extremely narrow margin of error allowed. As such, very few aircraft can effectively catch an RB-17 and keep up with it long enough to kill it; even fewer are effective at catching an RB-17, keeping up with it, and have some margin of error for potential attackers or wasteful maneuvers. This is a problem with tier 9/10 GA as well though it's easier to break out of the situation; you must play nearly perfectly (or get lucky with crits and fires,) they do not.

 

The RB-17 IS faster than any GA in the entire game, except an Me P.1102 B stripped of ordinance. It is also faster at flipping caps than everything but the IL-40P (maybe the IL-40,) but travels over 100KPH faster than it, approaching 200KPH even meaning it can run around the map far faster than them. Some of the best RB-17 pilots on the NA server are able to beat some of the best GA pilots in the NA server when they're in tier 10 GA due to how quickly it can run around the map and obliterate ground targets. Just let that sink in for a moment: a tier 8 plane has the potential to defeat tier 10 planes at their own game.

 

People have implied that just killing it is enough to stop it. I am afraid this isn't always the case, unless you are spawnkilling it by literally just sitting over its spawn and attacking it as soon as it spawns (which you should never do, it's incredibly unsportsmanlike and scummy in the eyes of many) the RB-17 has the ability to fly so fast that it can simply choose a different route to capture areas (oh and keep in mind it gets a free boost recharge from you killing it,) even if you're in an Me 262 or J8M, you'll still need time to dash over to it and intercept, and by that time it has likely inflicted severe damage to at least one capture point; if not outright captured it.

          The healthpool is also enough to whether a pass, critical damage is both inconsistent and repairable with consumables so I'm just referring to raw health here. 1500HP is enough to eat a considerable amount of R4M's, cannonfire, gunfire, and even rams. Before you bring up "well what if it's battered by attacking previous points?" then yes, it might be possible to 1-pass, however keep in mind it's already captured areas and as such is already contributing to its victory, your defeat. Attrition mode balances this out by making kills the focus so it's possible to have only a few caps but kill so fast that you overcome the inferior multiplier.

 

People have brought up equipment, the only equipment that I can see making the RB-17 easier to kill would be armoring it up which makes it slower, however also makes it harder to crit so you need to get luckier (which, let's face it, against 30mm cannons most things break pretty fast.)

           The turbine as mentioned above by somebody incurs an over 20% penalty, this means they have not fully calibrated it yet as a 478TL (478 Technology Level, aka fully calibrated and ultimate) turbine, however, they will still have over 45 seconds of boost, I cannot think of another tier 8 plane with that much boost, with the Me 329 only coming close at 45 seconds (however has way less capping power and is far slower.) They also gain a very sizable increase in acceleration while boosting which means they can reach top speed a lot faster.

           This person also mentioned how hardpoints slow them down, this is also down to them not having 478TL equipment, as 478TL hardpoints incurs a 5.8% penalty while a turbine gives a 5.8% bonus to boost speed -let alone bonus characteristics which can potentially yield a 2.5% boost speed increase- which means they suffer lower cruise speed (while it does matter, RB-17 pilots will almost always have a lot of boost in the tank) but on the other hand have a 20 second bomb reload and a 10% increase in boost acceleration.

 

People have brought up the tier 6 bombers: these are another issue entirely but let me delve a bit into them.

          The A-26 and Do-217M are actually quite slow, having sustained speeds that even tier 5's stand decent chances at reaching. These planes don't rely on raw sustained speed for escapes, instead, they rely on their huge boost pools and altitude to slowly drain their enemy of energy, let alone if they have gunners opening up on them (I won't open the Pandora's box that is gunner balance on the tier 6 bombers, it's a mess.) Unlike the RB-17 these two cannot simply dash away from most of their enemies or just hold their speed for so long that eventually their pursuers won't be able to keep up, these two are easily intercepted aircraft at low-altitude meaning it's extremely risky to fly them low-alt unless they go in with their full dive speed, in which case only the higher altitude aircraft in tier 6 can keep up with them provided they had altitude to dive from. The Do-217M however is actually hilariously overpowered in its ordinance load which as mentioned before, makes it quite easy to 1-pass most points, I have flown it, and I cringed when I was able to capture the entire map in about 5 minutes. These aircraft however are not what this discussion is about, as such I'm not going to create a whole new post just for these two.

 

There is nothing innately wrong about flying an RB-17, after all it's a plane you own. However there is something wrong with the plane it has such absurd potential that it can make matches revolve around it, whether that be active attempts at shutting it down, outcapping it, or just outright dominating matches through the immense capping power it has. Planes shouldn't all be equal of course, however no plane should be far and away superior in their potential compared to their contemporaries, which in the case of the RB-17 is currently the IL-20, Me 329, IL-10M, and NC 1070. These contemporaries are mainly tasked with flipping caps, however they all have key advantages and disadvantages to defeat each other. The RB-17 meanwhile gives up raw plane killing power for insanely better capping power, thus rendering the entire class of GA worthless at their own job. The other bombers (besides Do-217M and maybe Blenheim 4) are not so insanely powerful that they render another class of planes obsolete at their intended role, it's possible to outcap them using a GA on most maps (even if such GA are not very fast at all.)

 

Overall, the RB-17 needs a nerf in speed to about 750KPH to try and bring it in line with how all the other bombers work currently, as well as to punish aggressive low-alt players harder, service ceiling should be raised if possible to encourage flying at high-altitudes without feeling to large of a hit in speed unless you're flying in space, this way high-alt players shouldn't be effected too much by the speed reduction. Oh, and increase bomb accuracy at high-altitudes! This is the main thing that drives me to fly low-alt, bombs can be quite inaccurate at high-altitude and I need consistent capping power.

 

Again: there is a difference between skilled play, and top-tier plane. One is fully realizing the potential of the aircraft, the other is the potential of the aircraft.

(I'm sorry for writing in so much but I want to address nearly everything that's being said here, congratulations if you've actually read all of this post.)


I do fly Chinese aircraft a fair amount so... *ahem*

CHINA NUMBAH WAN

 

I even made a custom skin for my IL-10M!

 


ArrowZ_ #59 Posted 09 August 2018 - 10:50 AM

    Captain

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^ That's gotta be a new record of wall-o-texts for someone defending the bomber class :teethhappy:

 

You know what happens when a particular aircraft(s) gets complained alot? - "OP this, nerf that, too stronk komrad!" <- Persha Devs whip out the good ol' Nerf Bat and start abusing its power like a bunch of idiots who obviously does not know the consequences of their decisions. Look at the Me262. Or P-51s up to the FJ-1 & F-86. Or the P.1056 (if people can remember how OP that heavy was at one point). Or the zeros a6m series up to Tier 7 - Used to be killing machines back in beta and it was hard not to see a zero in any battle. Everyone was flying them back then. And look what happened now...


Edited by ArrowZ_, 09 August 2018 - 10:50 AM.

That Ozi Client Side Lagger

 

WOWP 2.0 Videos Playlist


pyantoryng #60 Posted 09 August 2018 - 11:23 AM

    Colonel

  • Closed Beta Tester
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I'll say again and I'll keep being a broken record about it: Low altitude penalty has to be reinstated, at least for bombers...or disable very low level bombing altogether like how bombsight is disabled at low altitude.

 

They might know this and decide to withhold adding more bombers for all these time...god help us all if SC1000s are going to rain...



WoWP makes a great jousting game...especially with the 262 and people busy in furballs...
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