108 replies to this topic

[Xr901]

Prenzlau, on 20 August 2018 - 03:47 PM, said:

 

    There are only a handful of players who have mastered the RB-17 to the point were they can consistently produce devastating results via low flying tactics. This effect is even more magnified when battles are 80-90% bots. You are quite right in your observation that battles with only a few humans per side often creates imbalance and when you throw in the game's chaotic attempts to rig bots, it can be like a slot machine. 

    If flying the RB-17 or any other bomber for that matter was a piece of cake, and getting the mega results, then everyone would be doing it and the battles would be filled with human bombers. This is not the case and the vast majority of human bombers are mediocre or worse. I've flown thousands of battles, and I know who the good ones are and notice the level of competence in whom ever I come across. 

    As a whole, and I have said this many times, it is not really fair to evaluate planes as "over powered" when the environment is mostly bots and at times the human element is very minimum. In these environments, any greatly skilled human will stand out, in any type of plane. If there were regular battles containing 12-15 humans per side, then it would become very clear that the planes are not as "over powered" as they appear to be. The fact that we do not have regular battles containing majorities of human players is the fault of WG for not producing, promoting, managing, and designing a product that is appealing to large amounts of human players. 

    In all fairness to the RB-17, I regularly fly the Do 217M, A-26B, Ju 88A, Do 17 Z, and Blenheim IV and get great results and many victories. Eventually, people have to come to the logical path that leads to certain players simply being great in certain planes. Time and time again we look at the plane, or the game for explanations, and don't take into account the full impact of player skill. 

    Thanks for your insight and observations.

 

Prenzlau

    

 

Well I think we might be having the wrong conversation here. I completely understand the importance of player skill in the ability of the RB-17 to influence games. The number of times I have seen human GAs and Bombers with 50k damage + and 1 ground kill...

That being said, this game has been produced and balanced around having human teams of all types of aircraft, enabling each to perform their different roles. When there's only 1-3 humans per side which is usual at higher tiers this can't happen. The game in 2.0 ultimately revolves around controlling caps, and flipping them is something the RB-17 excels at and was designed to do. The game in its current state favors excellence at ground pounding. If you take players of equally advanced skill in the Rb-17 (and I have to say, some others including the A-26, at least pre-2.0.5 when i saw more of them), the Rb-17 will pretty reliably be able to win in the game in its current state. This is the reason why I'm not exactly overjoyed at the announcement of the addition of the new bombers into the game. Could they not have taken that money and tried to get more people into the game first?

As to whether the specific plane is OP or now, I'm not sure we can actually tell either, given the low population and the fact that most people playing this game have absolutely no idea what they're doing (whether they've played a lot or not, and have good stats or bad).

Edited by Xr901, 20 August 2018 - 05:00 PM.

[Prenzlau]

Xr901, on 20 August 2018 - 10:59 AM, said:

 

Well I think we might be having the wrong conversation here. I completely understand the importance of player skill in the ability of the RB-17 to influence games. The number of times I have seen human GAs and Bombers with 50k damage + and 1 ground kill...

That being said, this game has been produced and balanced around having human teams of all types of aircraft, enabling each to perform their different roles. When there's only 1-3 humans per side which is usual at higher tiers this can't happen. The game in 2.0 ultimately revolves around controlling caps, and flipping them is something the RB-17 excels at and was designed to do. The game in its current state favors excellence at ground pounding. If you take players of equally advanced skill in the Rb-17 (and I have to say, some others including the A-26, at least pre-2.0.5 when i saw more of them), the Rb-17 will pretty reliably be able to win in the game in its current state. This is the reason why I'm not exactly overjoyed at the announcement of the addition of the new bombers into the game. Could they not have taken that money and tried to get more people into the game first?

As to whether the specific plane is OP or now, I'm not sure we can actually tell either, given the low population and the fact that most people playing this game have absolutely no idea what they're doing (whether they've played a lot or not, and have good stats or bad).

 

    When I started this thread I cared a lot more about the state of the game and the perception of the planes within it. That said, I will at least try and reply to your last post. You are again quite right, no one really knows how this game would be if it had enough humans to have full teams versus each other. We've had clan count in's were we had 8-10 humans per side, if you throw in 3 or 4 non clannies that the game picked at random (?), and those battles were quite enjoyable. If 3 or 4 (or more) clans that just decided to play at certain hours, and flood the game with human players, that would be something to participate in and it would not be hard to coordinate. It would not be clan battles, but it would be interesting to have teams mostly of human players. 

    I've had epic clashes against other excellent players in the RB-17, all things being equal, victory would usually come down to what the other human players did. The RB-17 flight up with another player in a fighter or heavy fighter is a popular combination. I've always wanted more bombers, but then again, I'm very bias.

    Getting people to play the game, creating competition, giving clans their just do and creating a valid clan ranking system, taking player feedback, and on and on.... It is a lot of wishing upon many stars, and the optimist, to which I was actually believed that someday these stars would align and this game would be a more perfect version of what people want. I don't really care if WG gets their sh*t straight anymore or not. It's all useless folly.

    If ever you want to flight up and fly with me, your more than welcome to send me a PM, or if I see you, I just might ask you if you are busy. It might be fun, crushing the red side like grapes between our fingers. 

 

Prenzlau

[MARS_REVENANT]

Prenzlau, on 20 August 2018 - 02:32 PM, said:

 

    When I started this thread I cared a lot more about the state of the game and the perception of the planes within it. 

 

Prenzlau

 

That was less than 2 weeks ago... what has changed?

[Prenzlau]

MARS_REVENANT, on 20 August 2018 - 01:35 PM, said:

 

That was less than 2 weeks ago... what has changed?

 

    I'll tell you what O' God of War, I'll conjure up a post and share with all. 

 

Since you asked.

 

Prenzlau

[Perco_lator]

Prenzlau, on 20 August 2018 - 03:32 PM, said:

 

    I'm very bias.

   

 

Prenzlau

 

Agreed.

[Prenzlau]

Perco_lator, on 20 August 2018 - 01:55 PM, said:

 

Agreed.

 

Ah... my point... from one post to another, a quote I just wrote.

 

All I do is provide them with "sparkly and shiny things", so they can show themselves briefly before they fall back into obscurity. My mere presence is enough, don't even matter what I say. I could just post my name. 

 

True to form. Thanks, your timing is impeccable. 

 

Prenzlau

[mnbv_fockewulfe]

[Prenzlau]

mnbv_fockewulfe, on 20 August 2018 - 02:55 PM, said:

 

Someone who has learned to simply be a fan, not to argue, not to provoke, but just to follow and take notes. 

 

Prenzlau

[Xr901]

Well, based on perceptions, most of the planes that I flew over this past (x3 XP) weekend were OP and hated by at least one person who made their feelings known...

In all seriousness though, if we are going to talk about perception of premium planes, in my opinion, the SE100 is just OP. Even in the hands of an idiot that thing is dangerous as can be. Considering its tier the tail gun is just stupid. Sure it is easy enough to take of if you can catch it from above and from the side, but at any other angle its a nightmare that can just kill you coming or going. You dodge the fixed forward firing guns, and the tail gun on the thing still has a good chance of killing you with its super long range, and the fact that you can't hide above or below the airframe because it is a true tail gun, even if you boost away.

The tech tree Hurricane II and Tornado as well as the premium Mustang 1A also seem borderline OP I have to say. The guns just shred everything in front of them reliably with their 4 20mm cannon, and they are good enough to reliably solo flip airfields, command centers, military bases, and garrisons. Of the 2 T6s the Tornado has rockets that help it cap easier and is more maneuverable, that being said, I still find it fairly easy to solo cap in the Mustang 1A. plus, the 1A has the altitude advantage which makes it quite easy for it to reliably take out bombers. It is also just better than the tech tree mustang which is faster, has a better service ceiling and is (slightly) better at turning, but is limited to the 4 .50s. In my experience right now the altitude advantage doesn't overcome the firepower disparity. I have to say if we are going off it being better than a rough equivalent in the tech tree then yeah, the Mustang 1A OP. That being said, on the whole while it's good, is it actually overpowered? I'm not so sure. I did really well this past weekend in my Mustang 1A, and got a lot of hate in it when I killed people, although I only got it specialized it on Saturday and it doesn't have any really good equipment on it.

 

As to the Spitfire V DB 605... Well... In all honesty, it is good, but the way that the current game plays out, it is not noticeably better than the Spitfire V or the Spitfire Vb IM. I've played 81 battles in the V DB 605, 48 in the V, and 35 in the VB IM, and I can honestly say that one will not perform better than others. The only reason that I've played so many in the V DB 605 is that until I got the Vb IM, if I wanted to play a T6 spit, i took the opportunity to train a German pilot. Yes it does have better altitude performance than the British spits, but it doesn't really need to use it much. I've also gotten "Hunt for Vulture" achievements in all 7 spits, even the 1a, and there isn't much going on up high at T6 anyway. The question of whether my precious spits are OP or not is another issue.