Reitousair, on 07 August 2018 - 06:03 PM, said:
Like I said, there is a difference between skilled play and top-tier plane. Perhaps this will be a bit easier to get through:
Planes like the RB-17, Pancake, and SE-100 all have matches revolve around them due to their power. You almost always need multiple people to eliminate or shut them down, however this also means the enemy team can try to create counter tactics to protect their meta plane and let it do its thing. If you leave them alone or don't create serious strategies that require coordination to shut down/protect these aircraft you either let them run rampant or have them get rendered useless by a swarm of enemy players and thus lose a huge part of your teams capping/killing power.
The RB-17 is a plane that, again, forces people to play in certain ways. Now, I want to make the distinction here first off that I'm talking about low-alt RB-17, high-alt RB-17 lets GA stand a ghost of a chance to keep up since it seems I didn't apply enough context. A low-alt RB-17 is extremely fast for a tier 8 and it can hold said speed for well beyond anything but maybe heavy fighters which allows it to travel between points so fast that not even the Me 329 can compete, if you let it exist you lose, so you need to try and form a counterplay, problem comes it's extremely difficult to catch an RB-17 and it's tanky enough to eat a pass from everything it sees, so, you need some help in the form of other players. With this squadron of players you can properly try to counter the RB-17 but... well, I think you see the problem here, the game is not revolving around map layouts, tactics, or map strategies, it's focused on one, single plane.
You see, the player doesn't quite matter as much, if they're a bad low-alt RB-17 player then they're not nearly as threatening. However, bad players or not, the aircraft itself is so strong that not basing your gameplay off of it is a surefire defeat unless the pilot is REALLY bad. However, if we assume everybody is of equal skill level and there are lots of players, then how exactly are GA supposed to keep up with an RB-17? How are anything but HF's supposed to be able to intercept and pursue an RB-17, and even then how are the HF's going to handle enemy players coming to intercept them to protect their RB-17? Again, it's not an unkillable plane, and it does require skill to use, but just because something takes skill to use it should not be a nigh uncounterable aircraft without forcing people to play around them.
I see you brought up my IL-10M, I don't think you realize that the IL-10M is actually not very good when it comes to both the air and ground games, as such it can easily be countered, it's a very slow, maneuverable GA, so it's possible to just BnZ it and make it pretty much impossible for it to retaliate. It's also possible for other GA to try and outcap it by utilizing superior speed and armaments. My IL-10M does not force other people to have to form their matches that revolve solely around my aircraft, and there's ways to counter it without requiring a tactician and coordinated effort to stop it. There's a difference between skilled play and top-tier plane.
/end of post this is getting to the point it's just spamworthy now lol
I completely disagree.
Planes like the RB-17, Pancake, and SE-100 all have matches revolve around them due to their power. You almost always need multiple people to eliminate or shut them down, however this also means the enemy team can try to create counter tactics to protect their meta plane and let it do its thing. If you leave them alone or don't create serious strategies that require coordination to shut down/protect these aircraft you either let them run rampant or have them get rendered useless by a swarm of enemy players and thus lose a huge part of your teams capping/killing power.
Matches do not always revolve around these planes. No matter what plane I am in, I DO NOT think to myself, "Oh man there is an SE 100, or Pancake on the other team, I'm going to have to coordinate with the other humans on my team to deal with them". No, No, No! What I do think is when I see YOU, or any other HVAR, or another player in the top 25 of the hall of fame, or someone I know is just damn formidable, then I think "oh man, now I have to defeat them". They could be in any plane!!! It is the player that I think is going to be the challenge, NOT THE PLANE.
You see, the player doesn't quite matter as much, if they're a bad low-alt RB-17 player then they're not nearly as threatening. However, bad players or not, the aircraft itself is so strong that not basing your gameplay off of it is a surefire defeat unless the pilot is REALLY bad. However, if we assume everybody is of equal skill level and there are lots of players, then how exactly are GA supposed to keep up with an RB-17? How are anything but HF's supposed to be able to intercept and pursue an RB-17, and even then how are the HF's going to handle enemy players coming to intercept them to protect their RB-17? Again, it's not an unkillable plane, and it does require skill to use, but just because something takes skill to use it should not be a nigh uncounterable aircraft without forcing people to play around them.
Again, I disagree. Here are the stats from what I would describe as a anonymous good solid RB-17 player who has over 200 hrs of flight time. 61% win rate, ave. 6 ground kills per sortie, less than 1 air kill per sortie. Ave capture 3 sectors per battle. Ok, this is not an average RB-17 player, this is someone who is good and occasionally has a great game. Yet there is nothing terribly scary about these stats. Certainly someone who can contribute to a battle and flipping 3 sectors or more probably does win 61% of their battles. So strong though that they cannot be dealt with? I think not. So strong that the other team has to go to extremes to deal with, again I think not. I like how you minimize the role of ground attack planes and exacerbate the role of the RB-17 all things being equal.
Next. The player does matter. The skill of the player matters, more than the mechanics of the plane. It is funny how I speak about "over powered" players but you don't touch that with a 10 foot pole. Why not? Here let us examine why.
Reitousair. Win rate 82.28% Really??? How does someone manage an 82.28% career win rate in this game and not be described as "over powered"??? Flying efficiency rates, all above 20, but heavy fighters is 32.6 and ground attack planes, an eye popping 43.2!!! That means your a stone cold killer and a ruthless efficient winner. In the IL-10M you average 12 ground target kills per sortie, and 2 air targets per sortie. You capture 4 sectors per battle on average.
My IL-10M does not force other people to have to form their matches that revolve solely around my aircraft - The evidence seems to contradict this. You are one of the most dangerous ground attack player I have seen.
So please explain to me why anyone on the other side would even worry about what planes your side are flying, when your winning battles at an 82.28% rate? If the game wasn't so flawed, I'd estimate your win % would be above 90. Not to mention all the other over powered players that clog the top tiers of the hall of fame. You see the player does not quite matter... B*llsh*t! The player controls the plane. When it comes to the RB-17 there is only a very small group that can even compete with the other top players in this game much less influence a battle so strongly that the other side had no chance.
just because something takes skill to use it should not be a nigh uncounterable aircraft without forcing people to play around them.
This is simply not true. I've been countered regularly, chased across the map by humans and bots, pulverized by AA and defense planes, and blown out of the sky by humans in various planes. Anyone who flies the RB-17 will agree with this, and RB-17 players earn everything they accomplish. This idea that the RB-17 is "uncounterable" is ridiculous! Any heavy fighter with an experienced and skilled pilot will win the battle against the RB-17 if they use basic tactics and positioning. Over powered skill players are far more "uncounterable" in my opinion.
Over the past 28 days according to the in game stats, you fought 563 battles and had a 89.7% win rate. Outstanding almost does not do it justice. My point is not to discredit you as a player, not at all, it is to point out that it is plain hypocritical to talk about planes as "over powered" when your "over powered" no matter what plane your in. In the past 28 days, your human opponents lost near 90% of their battles when you were on the other side. That means, and lets be honest, they did not have much of a chance. Even as good as I am in the RB-17 I have never beaten you head to head with that plane, and every defeat was lop sided. You might be humble but your stats are not.
There's a difference between skilled play and top-tier plane.
You bet there is! Skilled play is the dominate factor, not so much the plane. You don't have to look any further than the win rates of any player to know how much they influence battles.
Prenzlau
Edited by Prenzlau, 08 August 2018 - 03:14 AM.