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30 mm and 50 cal guns


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pittwsix #1 Posted 07 August 2018 - 12:53 AM

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With the latest patch given us the chance to enhance planes so to speak, i've been playing a lot of the F-86 and the Swift, both of which are mediocre to awful planes...  Both planes support a strength or 2.  

 

The Sabre is fast and agile and the swift is very fast and very good rate of climb... all translates too very average to poor performance simply because the guns on both planes are awful.  

 

30mms in the game are straight up trash, the most inaccurate shells, lazy mps and yeah just bad..  50's are ok... barley... problem is it just takes way to long to kill another plane, which gives enemy planes time to fire at you..

 

I think most players would agree 20mms are king, everything else is pretty weak, minus the Ta-152 of course... but thats an exception.

 

Small buffs would def help, for example for the 50's increase damage by small amount, say 15-20, and range by 50 Meters.  This should help the plane out a great deal

 

last the 30's on the swift or any fighter, dispersion and accuracy need to be greatly improved, and shell speed increase would def help.

 

just my thoughts, hope some day soon both get the buffs they deserve, as they were the strongest planes in the world in their era... ya ya i know arcade game but still.... at least make them relevant again...



SpiritFoxMY #2 Posted 07 August 2018 - 01:04 AM

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At least the Swift gives you the option of upgrading the guns. I'm thinking of LRBs myself so I keep the full Gunsight bonus once I'm Specialized

***

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MadJackChurchil #3 Posted 07 August 2018 - 02:00 AM

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View Postpittwsix, on 07 August 2018 - 12:53 AM, said:

With the latest patch given us the chance to enhance planes so to speak, i've been playing a lot of the F-86 and the Swift, both of which are mediocre to awful planes...  Both planes support a strength or 2.  

 

The Sabre is fast and agile and the swift is very fast and very good rate of climb... all translates too very average to poor performance simply because the guns on both planes are awful.  

 

30mms in the game are straight up trash, the most inaccurate shells, lazy mps and yeah just bad..  50's are ok... barley... problem is it just takes way to long to kill another plane, which gives enemy planes time to fire at you..

 

I think most players would agree 20mms are king, everything else is pretty weak, minus the Ta-152 of course... but thats an exception.

 

Small buffs would def help, for example for the 50's increase damage by small amount, say 15-20, and range by 50 Meters.  This should help the plane out a great deal

 

last the 30's on the swift or any fighter, dispersion and accuracy need to be greatly improved, and shell speed increase would def help.

 

just my thoughts, hope some day soon both get the buffs they deserve, as they were the strongest planes in the world in their era... ya ya i know arcade game but still.... at least make them relevant again...

 

As a person who now flies almost exclusively planes with these guns (P51-D, Me262 and Me329) I agree that all of these are weak - people and bots keep shooting me down all the time.

Now seriously - yes, the 50's would definitely use shorter bursts and higher damage. The range might not help that much, as (at least for P51) the spread is huge (even with sights on and markman skill) at current max range, so longer range would make it just tickle. Perhaps increase a crit chance, so when you finally manage to stay on someone's tail, you just cripple them? At the same time I still insist that 50's are one of the most forgiving guns.

 

30's are the opposite - unforgiving as hell. I am not sure what do to to balance them. Accuracy would be nice. Improving range and burst length might help. Increasing speed would be great, but should be carefully balanced. At current level its bloody impossible to hit anything (250 games in Me262 and still I struggle) with them, but once it becomes easy to hit with these, their high dmg and crit chance will keep wrecking everything.

 

(OT crying on the wall, the change I would welcome is nerfing pancakes and RB-17.)



trikke #4 Posted 07 August 2018 - 02:26 AM

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View PostMadJackChurchil, on 06 August 2018 - 10:00 PM, said:

(OT crying on the wall, the change I would welcome is nerfing pancakes and RB-17.)

 

oh nooooooooo...   i just grinded (ground?) up to the pancake just last week!

 

just a couple more weeks, maybe a month, and i'll be ready to put it back in the box for a while...

 

easily the most forgiving heavy i've flown


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MadJackChurchil #5 Posted 07 August 2018 - 02:39 AM

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View Posttrikke, on 07 August 2018 - 02:26 AM, said:

 

oh nooooooooo...   i just grinded (ground?) up to the pancake just last week!

 

just a couple more weeks, maybe a month, and i'll be ready to put it back in the box for a while...

 

easily the most forgiving heavy i've flown

 

I am tempted to grind my way to it. My experience from Me262 is that pancake can maneuver like hell (fine), has rockets (don't like things that can face-to-face against my rockets) and for some reason it can still catch me (last time I have expended 18 sec of boost in a shallow dive, crossing the whole map, while bot pancake was still on my tail). Cannot out-maneuver, cannot outshoot and usually cannot run away. All thats left is close the game and put some maple syrup on one from the fridge.

 

That being said, the human pancakes seem to be slower and are slightly better. Few days ago i got into a stimulating duel with one pancake player. My horizontal boom'n'zoom against him turn-burn. If the game lasted 30 more minutes, I would have kicked the crap out of him (shot him down at least once)!


Edited by MadJackChurchil, 07 August 2018 - 02:48 AM.


Captain_Underpants53 #6 Posted 07 August 2018 - 06:03 AM

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View PostMadJackChurchil, on 06 August 2018 - 09:00 PM, said:

 

As a person who now flies almost exclusively planes with these guns (P51-D, Me262 and Me329) I agree that all of these are weak - people and bots keep shooting me down all the time.

Now seriously - yes, the 50's would definitely use shorter bursts and higher damage. The range might not help that much, as (at least for P51) the spread is huge (even with sights on and markman skill) at current max range, so longer range would make it just tickle. Perhaps increase a crit chance, so when you finally manage to stay on someone's tail, you just cripple them? At the same time I still insist that 50's are one of the most forgiving guns.

 

30's are the opposite - unforgiving as hell. I am not sure what do to to balance them. Accuracy would be nice. Improving range and burst length might help. Increasing speed would be great, but should be carefully balanced. At current level its bloody impossible to hit anything (250 games in Me262 and still I struggle) with them, but once it becomes easy to hit with these, their high dmg and crit chance will keep wrecking everything.

 

(OT crying on the wall, the change I would welcome is nerfing pancakes and RB-17.)

(OT crying on the wall, the change I would welcome is nerfing pancakes and RB-17.)

Please!  Not the RB-17!
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SpiritFoxMY #7 Posted 07 August 2018 - 06:09 AM

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I just flee from Pancakes. The Do335 is faster in a dive and most Pancake players aren't going to be loaded with energy from all the turnfighting so I can boom them like a really big, meaty light fighter

***

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So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


pyantoryng #8 Posted 07 August 2018 - 11:11 AM

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Problem is that 30mms are on planes that are way too fast to take advantage of the massive firepower...and 50cals are a tad too weak...

WoWP makes a great jousting game...especially with the 262 and people busy in furballs...
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SpiritFoxMY #9 Posted 07 August 2018 - 12:40 PM

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50 cal would be fine if they increased the range to 600+m. As people have said - they actually deal a good amount of damage but its dps and short ranged

***

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For death is a distant friend

So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


comtedumas #10 Posted 07 August 2018 - 06:40 PM

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I just got the RB17 and pancake, don't dare touch them.  And I don't think you can nerf the RB 17, its a premium.  

 



comtedumas #11 Posted 07 August 2018 - 06:41 PM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 07 August 2018 - 01:09 AM, said:

I just flee from Pancakes. The Do335 is faster in a dive and most Pancake players aren't going to be loaded with energy from all the turnfighting so I can boom them like a really big, meaty light fighter

 

I am pretty sure you can climb away from a Pancake in a Do335 at boost, too.  

trikke #12 Posted 07 August 2018 - 07:33 PM

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View Postcomtedumas, on 07 August 2018 - 02:41 PM, said:

I am pretty sure you can climb away from a Pancake in a Do335 at boost, too.  

 

probably can...   we should test that someday, D!

 

but i never stall out...  stall speed is 40 mph, ffs (65 kph) so i can keep my guns on you longer, as you climb away 

 

it's the king of the misfit toys


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mnbv_fockewulfe #13 Posted 07 August 2018 - 07:38 PM

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Ha, funny.

You guys bring up the same issue we've had for a whole 2 years since 1.9 hit.:D

I mean, if you new guys are still having the same issues we did for the longest time, who's in the wrong?:unsure:


Be sure to check your logic privileges before posting on the forum.

 

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Prenzlau #14 Posted 07 August 2018 - 08:05 PM

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View PostMadJackChurchil, on 06 August 2018 - 08:00 PM, said:

 

As a person who now flies almost exclusively planes with these guns (P51-D, Me262 and Me329) I agree that all of these are weak - people and bots keep shooting me down all the time.

Now seriously - yes, the 50's would definitely use shorter bursts and higher damage. The range might not help that much, as (at least for P51) the spread is huge (even with sights on and markman skill) at current max range, so longer range would make it just tickle. Perhaps increase a crit chance, so when you finally manage to stay on someone's tail, you just cripple them? At the same time I still insist that 50's are one of the most forgiving guns.

 

30's are the opposite - unforgiving as hell. I am not sure what do to to balance them. Accuracy would be nice. Improving range and burst length might help. Increasing speed would be great, but should be carefully balanced. At current level its bloody impossible to hit anything (250 games in Me262 and still I struggle) with them, but once it becomes easy to hit with these, their high dmg and crit chance will keep wrecking everything.

 

(OT crying on the wall, the change I would welcome is nerfing pancakes and RB-17.)

 

I've said this before, fighters, multi-roles, heavies, and even ground attack have a great advantage in firepower to the RB-17 or any other bomber. The problem I see time and time again, is that most players don't know how to attack the RB-17, and they all too often fall into the rear kill zone of the RB's tail gun. Yes the RB is fast, but it is a large aircraft that cannot maneuver well, if the tail or tail gun gets taken out, which happens quite frequent, it is easy prey for an attacking plane. Most players are inexperienced and thoughtless when they attack a bomber, and yes the RB-17 will bite you back, so you have to attack it certain ways. I know how vulnerable the RB is, I know what kinds of planes do better or worse against it and what angles to attack it best or where on the map to find it and lay a trap. 

As an RB-17 player, I'm not going to listen to excuses and whining from those who either cannot learn to attack and defeat it, or those who are too demoralized to deal with it. Instead of the idea of nerfing the RB, how about the opposing players put their tactics and the guns on their planes to good use and stop being targets for the RB. I cannot tell you how many misguided players sit 700-1200 meters behind me, with little chance of their guns damaging me and get whittled down to nothing in the process and then they cry about it. The smart ones always pick their opportunities and attack at the best times, and they don't sit too long behind my RB. 

Again, it is not the plane, it is the players.

 

Prenzlau


Edited by Prenzlau, 07 August 2018 - 08:07 PM.

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CorvusCorvax #15 Posted 07 August 2018 - 09:02 PM

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View PostPrenzlau, on 07 August 2018 - 08:05 PM, said:

 

I've said this before, fighters, multi-roles, heavies, and even ground attack have a great advantage in firepower to the RB-17 or any other bomber. The problem I see time and time again, is that most players don't know how to attack the RB-17, and they all too often fall into the rear kill zone of the RB's tail gun. Yes the RB is fast, but it is a large aircraft that cannot maneuver well, if the tail or tail gun gets taken out, which happens quite frequent, it is easy prey for an attacking plane. Most players are inexperienced and thoughtless when they attack a bomber, and yes the RB-17 will bite you back, so you have to attack it certain ways. I know how vulnerable the RB is, I know what kinds of planes do better or worse against it and what angles to attack it best or where on the map to find it and lay a trap. 

As an RB-17 player, I'm not going to listen to excuses and whining from those who either cannot learn to attack and defeat it, or those who are too demoralized to deal with it. Instead of the idea of nerfing the RB, how about the opposing players put their tactics and the guns on their planes to good use and stop being targets for the RB. I cannot tell you how many misguided players sit 700-1200 meters behind me, with little chance of their guns damaging me and get whittled down to nothing in the process and then they cry about it. The smart ones always pick their opportunities and attack at the best times, and they don't sit too long behind my RB. 

Again, it is not the plane, it is the players.

 

Prenzlau

 

And if you knock out that tail gun, just sit back there and let that bomber have it.  Knocking out the gun isn't that hard - you have to know where to aim.  And, if you're smart, you can stay outside of the defensive gun zone of an RB-17 forever.  The Do-335 is fantastic for knocking down RB-17s at any altitude.

MadJackChurchil #16 Posted 07 August 2018 - 09:10 PM

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View PostPrenzlau, on 07 August 2018 - 08:05 PM, said:

 

I've said this before, fighters, multi-roles, heavies, and even ground attack have a great advantage in firepower to the RB-17 or any other bomber. The problem I see time and time again, is that most players don't know how to attack the RB-17, and they all too often fall into the rear kill zone of the RB's tail gun. Yes the RB is fast, but it is a large aircraft that cannot maneuver well, if the tail or tail gun gets taken out, which happens quite frequent, it is easy prey for an attacking plane. Most players are inexperienced and thoughtless when they attack a bomber, and yes the RB-17 will bite you back, so you have to attack it certain ways. I know how vulnerable the RB is, I know what kinds of planes do better or worse against it and what angles to attack it best or where on the map to find it and lay a trap. 

As an RB-17 player, I'm not going to listen to excuses and whining from those who either cannot learn to attack and defeat it, or those who are too demoralized to deal with it. Instead of the idea of nerfing the RB, how about the opposing players put their tactics and the guns on their planes to good use and stop being targets for the RB. I cannot tell you how many misguided players sit 700-1200 meters behind me, with little chance of their guns damaging me and get whittled down to nothing in the process and then they cry about it. The smart ones always pick their opportunities and attack at the best times, and they don't sit too long behind my RB. 

Again, it is not the plane, it is the players.

 

Prenzlau

 

Agree you can attack RB-17, do side-to-side strafing or loops around them. The problem with that in Me262 is that due to its turn rate, this method takes forever... and you can always zoom out (does RB17 have the same boost lengths of 40+ sec as german bombers?), at which point any fancy manuvers are kinda useless.

And if I wait for the best attack opportunity, you flip a cap and your out.



sneakytails #17 Posted 07 August 2018 - 10:08 PM

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View PostMadJackChurchil, on 07 August 2018 - 09:10 PM, said:

 

Agree you can attack RB-17, do side-to-side strafing or loops around them. The problem with that in Me262 is that due to its turn rate, this method takes forever... and you can always zoom out (does RB17 have the same boost lengths of 40+ sec as german bombers?), at which point any fancy manuvers are kinda useless.

And if I wait for the best attack opportunity, you flip a cap and your out.

 

I agree, plus you need a plane that can do it. Not all T7's or 8's can. Seems like every time I am in my XP-58 I never see any RB's. I will try a full tank build on it when I specialize it, it should be more efficient in time to just sit there and nuke them and then do other things than perform an airshow just for one kill.

 


Edited by sneakytails, 07 August 2018 - 10:09 PM.


pittwsix #18 Posted 29 August 2018 - 05:28 PM

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View PostMadJackChurchil, on 07 August 2018 - 02:00 AM, said:

 

As a person who now flies almost exclusively planes with these guns (P51-D, Me262 and Me329) I agree that all of these are weak - people and bots keep shooting me down all the time.

Now seriously - yes, the 50's would definitely use shorter bursts and higher damage. The range might not help that much, as (at least for P51) the spread is huge (even with sights on and markman skill) at current max range, so longer range would make it just tickle. Perhaps increase a crit chance, so when you finally manage to stay on someone's tail, you just cripple them? At the same time I still insist that 50's are one of the most forgiving guns.

 

30's are the opposite - unforgiving as hell. I am not sure what do to to balance them. Accuracy would be nice. Improving range and burst length might help. Increasing speed would be great, but should be carefully balanced. At current level its bloody impossible to hit anything (250 games in Me262 and still I struggle) with them, but once it becomes easy to hit with these, their high dmg and crit chance will keep wrecking everything.

 

(OT crying on the wall, the change I would welcome is nerfing pancakes and RB-17.)

 

I agree with the RB-17 is very strong but it can be countered.  With the pancake its counter is just map awareness, if you know where it is, it can't ambush you.  and if you find yourself head on just bait it out and turn in behind it... Believe it or not the pancake isn't that fast especially in a climb so it can be intercepted pretty easily.  

wylleEcoyote #19 Posted 29 August 2018 - 08:44 PM

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Yeah nope American guns  they are balanced just fine.
if they had engagement or damage ranges Buffed by what OP wants then they would be (barely) within the performance envelopes of 20mm autocannon.

and then those .50s would have to have massive cooldown nerfs to remain balanced.

And those planes that mount them would have to be balanced further by having their manuverability nerfed a bit or maybe their engine power reduced a little. 
Altitude performace should remain unchanged because it was a driving issue of american airplane research and development...

And then all of a sudden your planes are Just Like  Ze Germans




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