84 replies to this topic

[CorvusCorvax]

Prenzlau, on 31 July 2018 - 04:20 PM, said:

 

I'm willing to give this game and that on going process of improvements a chance. If your not willing to do so, at least put away the negative attitude and take a "wait and see" approach without all the negative attacks. We are all real people, most of us care and want this game to be better and meet expectations. There should be many opportunities to find "common ground" between different opinions and attitudes, if people just try. Who here is willing to let go of their baggage and move forward? 

 

 

 

Wargaming has provided the malcontents with this wonderful platform where they are allowed to vent their spleen as much as they want, to denigrate other forum denizens as much as they want, to cry and moan about the "good old days".  Those folks who don't want to hear this moaning, crying, and griping will have to learn how to operate the forum software features (by actively blocking those who have nothing useful to say) or adapt to the changing forum atmosphere.  While I might agree that the malcontents really offer nothing but a reduction in the signal:noise ratio, this sort of thing exists across internet platforms, everywhere.  Adapting and overcoming their raised noise level is about all one can do.  There will always be trolls and naysayers.

[Bobby_Tables]

CorvusCorvax, on 01 August 2018 - 08:33 PM, said:

 

Wargaming has provided the malcontents with this wonderful platform where they are allowed to vent their spleen as much as they want, to denigrate other forum denizens as much as they want, to cry and moan about the "good old days".  Those folks who don't want to hear this moaning, crying, and griping will have to learn how to operate the forum software features (by actively blocking those who have nothing useful to say) or adapt to the changing forum atmosphere.  While I might agree that the malcontents really offer nothing but a reduction in the signal:noise ratio, this sort of thing exists across internet platforms, everywhere.  Adapting and overcoming their raised noise level is about all one can do.  There will always be trolls and naysayers.

 

On the flip side of that, there is a latent base of former players who would love to come back once they see positive results.  It actually started to happen to a lesser extent with 2.0.0 and then when 2.0.5 or whatever dropped, it chased a lot or players away.  

 

Increased emphasis on player vs. player battles by whatever means necessary would increase the player count and that's a guarantee.  I will be willing to put real money on that.  

 

The direction of 2.0.5 or whatever you wanna call it totally negated the desire for player-on-player interaction and instead focused on middling little details on plane layouts with a huge grind to boot.  

 

The players waiting in the wings are not interested in this sort of trash.  They want enhancements to clans, player-vs-player and good old fun of playing against humans.  The developers ignored that and the 1 v 1 battles at any tier at any time is the result.  

 

I still like and play the game.  I do not like the fact that during peak times I get 1 human on the opposing team even at T4.  Persha owns this mess.  Whether they choose to fix it or continue down their path is not something we control.  What we can do is show our discontent and (illogically) hope that they, for once, listen.  Fat chance of that based on past experience.  For some reason, this studio thinks they know what the players want and to hell with what the players want.  This isn't complaining without merit.  The player numbers are crazy low and the root of the problem is not the players, it's the studio.  Enuf said.  

Edited by Bobby_Tables, 02 August 2018 - 06:47 AM.

[CorvusCorvax]

Bobby_Tables, on 02 August 2018 - 06:40 AM, said:

 

On the flip side of that, there is a latent base of former players who would love to come back once they see positive results.  It actually started to happen to a lesser extent with 2.0.0 and then when 2.0.5 or whatever dropped, it chased a lot or players away.  

 

Increased emphasis on player vs. player battles by whatever means necessary would increase the player count and that's a guarantee.  I will be willing to put real money on that.  

 

The direction of 2.0.5 or whatever you wanna call it totally negated the desire for player-on-player interaction and instead focused on middling little details on plane layouts with a huge grind to boot.  

 

The players waiting in the wings are not interested in this sort of trash.  They want enhancements to clans, player-vs-player and good old fun of playing against humans.  The developers ignored that and the 1 v 1 battles at any tier at any time is the result.  

 

I still like and play the game.  I do not like the fact that during peak times I get 1 human on the opposing team even at T4.  Persha owns this mess.  Whether they choose to fix it or continue down their path is not something we control.  What we can do is show our discontent and (illogically) hope that they, for once, listen.  Fat chance of that based on past experience.  For some reason, this studio thinks they know what the players want and to hell with what the players want.  This isn't complaining without merit.  The player numbers are crazy low and the root of the problem is not the players, it's the studio.  Enuf said.  

 

I actually agree with all of that.  I'm not talking about folks who make constructive criticism, as form of feedback to the CMs or WG itself.  I myself have offered suggestions on how to change the game to attract and keep new players, while retaining the old players.  2.0.5 isn't it.  But repeated complaining, and repeated slagging of other forum members isn't constructive.  As a form of entertainment, it has some small value.  But after the popcorn has been eaten, there is nothing of value left.

 

You are correct also in that the game's issues are not the fault of the players.  But how they interact on the forums is completely under their control, no matter how silly the game code gets.  That's the part I'm talking about, to address Prenzlau's commentary.  Use the software to your advantage to minimize the downsides, to co-opt a phrase. 

[Ace_BOTlistic_Cosmo]

CorvusCorvax, on 02 August 2018 - 08:21 AM, said:

 But repeated complaining, and repeated slagging of other forum members isn't constructive.  As a form of entertainment, it has some small value.  But after the popcorn has been eaten, there is nothing of value left.

 to address Prenzlau's commentary.  Use the software to your advantage to minimize the downsides, to co-opt a phrase. 

such a disingenuous saccharine answer Rico

pot meet kettle kind'a stuff

I love the open minded way you accept other's opinions and how they voice them

 

 

[SkyWolf__WM]

Once again, I'll repeat, it is a free to play GAME. Spend money or don't. But chill with all the complaining.

 

[CorvusCorvax]

Ace_BOTlistic_Cosmo, on 02 August 2018 - 01:58 PM, said:

 

I love the open minded way you accept other's opinions and how they voice them

 

 

I am sorry that you don't understand how to use the forum software to your benefit.  But I do appreciate the demonstration of the exact thing I was talking about.

 

"Disingenuous" and your above quote?  PRICELESS.

[f16falcona46]

SkyWolf__WM, on 02 August 2018 - 02:14 PM, said:

Once again, I'll repeat, it is a free to play GAME. Spend money or don't. But chill with all the complaining.

 

 

Complaining is the only way to tell the devs what changes we want.

[CorvusCorvax]

f16falcona46, on 02 August 2018 - 06:11 PM, said:

 

Complaining is the only way to tell the devs what changes we want.

 

I would suggest that complaining is NOT the way to get changes.  Making constructive criticism, then requesting a particular kind of change would work better.  Complaining is what teenagers do when life is totally unfair.  Both the tone and the reception are different.  The hard reality is that it unlikely that either mode of communication will have an effect.  But one at least shows a modicum of respect.

[Prenzlau]

Zigfreid, on 01 August 2018 - 08:12 PM, said:

Prenzlau thank you for this thread about growing and changing with this game.

This game will always test you in battle, thinking, forum, and may change you.

Prenzlau is a smart fighter in game and in the forum and does not whine or quit.

He will show you your weakness with humor, wit, reason, and intelligence.

I have grown and changed with this game since open beta, about four years.

I think Prenzlau is a great pilot and person, and proud to be his wingman anytime!

 

 

Thank you Ziggy. You've been a great teacher and mentor. A wonderful friend who has been a terrific wingman. It's always fun when we fly and we've come a long way together. The Z & P Bombing Company runs from no one, and that is always how it will be! If anyone is wondering, on team speak we do laugh and make fun of people when we kill them in the game.

 

Prenzlau

Edited by Prenzlau, 02 August 2018 - 08:45 PM.

[Ace_BOTlistic_Cosmo]

Prenzlau, on 02 August 2018 - 03:42 PM, said:

 

Thank you Ziggy. You've been a great teacher and mentor. A wonderful friend who has been a terrific wingman. It's always fun when we fly and we've come a long way together. The Z & P Bombing Company runs from no one, and that is always how it will be! If anyone is wondering, on team speak we do laugh and make fun of people when we kill them in the game.

 

Prenzlau

[Deltavee]

Ace_BOTlistic_Cosmo, on 02 August 2018 - 11:52 PM, said:

 

Damn you, Ace!  I  guffawed.

[f16falcona46]

CorvusCorvax, on 02 August 2018 - 06:49 PM, said:

 

I would suggest that complaining is NOT the way to get changes.  Making constructive criticism, then requesting a particular kind of change would work better.  Complaining is what teenagers do when life is totally unfair.  Both the tone and the reception are different.  The hard reality is that it unlikely that either mode of communication will have an effect.  But one at least shows a modicum of respect.

 

Complaints can be constructive criticism as well. In fact, any constructive criticism is always a complaint. Now, whining is a different matter--but the majority of complaints on this forum have at least identified a specific undesirable change, and therefore (I would say) are constructive.

 

If WG chooses to interpret actual constructive criticism (what's wrong, why it's wrong, and how it can be fixed), which has been posted in many places such as this forum, Reddit, the official Discord, and even the Facebook page, as whining or as personal attacks, then the problem isn't the players.

[Noreaga]

/ useless rant

 

There are only so many times you can give constructive feedback before you realize it's falling on deaf ears.

 

What i love (and hate) about public forums is that all post are allowed within the rules. stupid ideas, good ideas, constructive criticism, exasperated criticism, psychology papers, whine and cheese, retorts. Being in a public place and a human with free will, i can ignore, skip, read, reply to anything i feel like. For some of those that are so soft that they need to be protected from the bad words there is even the forum blocking thing. I just don't understand how someone can survive the world, if a bunch of words that represent ideas that are different is so scary. When did we get so soft?

 

Post what you want, but its a public forum...and people don't have to tailor their behaviour to your personal expectations. 

 

PS i wish people could see the first 1500 of my posts, nothing but testing feedback and if i do say so myself tons of "cool aid" as well. ive been there, ive told off irritated alpha testers for being negative. then around 0.6 bam empathy, you'll get there or you'll disapear.

/ useless rant 

 

 

all the best.

 

[Ace_BOTlistic_Cosmo]

Noreaga, on 03 August 2018 - 10:41 AM, said:

/ useless rant

 

There are only so many times you can give constructive feedback before you realize it's falling on deaf ears.

 

What i love (and hate) about public forums is that all post are allowed within the rules. stupid ideas, good ideas, constructive criticism, exasperated criticism, psychology papers, whine and cheese, retorts. Being in a public place and a human with free will, i can ignore, skip, read, reply to anything i feel like. For some of those that are so soft that they need to be protected from the bad words there is even the forum blocking thing. I just don't understand how someone can survive the world, if a bunch of words that represent ideas that are different is so scary. When did we get so soft?

 

Post what you want, but its a public forum...and people don't have to tailor their behaviour to your personal expectations. 

 

PS i wish people could see the first 1500 of my posts, nothing but testing feedback and if i do say so myself tons of "cool aid" as well. ive been there, ive told off irritated alpha testers for being negative. then around 0.6 bam empathy, you'll get there or you'll disapear.

/ useless rant 

 

 

all the best.

 

yeh...

what he said

[CorvusCorvax]

f16falcona46, on 03 August 2018 - 02:56 PM, said:

 

Complaints can be constructive criticism as well. In fact, any constructive criticism is always a complaint. Now, whining is a different matter--but the majority of complaints on this forum have at least identified a specific undesirable change, and therefore (I would say) are constructive.

 

If WG chooses to interpret actual constructive criticism (what's wrong, why it's wrong, and how it can be fixed), which has been posted in many places such as this forum, Reddit, the official Discord, and even the Facebook page, as whining or as personal attacks, then the problem isn't the players.

 

Good, good, I'm glad we got it straightened out.  There is a definite difference, and likely effect, from the different type and style of complaint.

 

My point, originally, was to help Prenzlau out by explaining that with any internet forum, you're going to have people who use the platform to cry and whine about stuff as a form of venting.  And as long as they feel like the world owes them something, they will continue to cry to anyone who listens.  It's part of the deal with anonymous internet forums, and reasoning with such folks is unlikely to change their behavior any.  So, one has to adapt and overcome.  It is not just in the WoWP forums that malcontents do this sort of thing, it's in about every single forum I've ever visited.  

 

After the last round of answers from blindfold on the Developer Q&A thread, I am cautiously optimistic that folks who offered suggestions and observations might get rewarded with positive game changes.  These do not look like they will be major gameplay changes like some folks are requesting, but at least it's SOMETHING positive.  If you had asked me a month ago if I thought that was possible, I would have told you, without any reservation, "No, no chance in hell."

 

I was wrong, and will gladly be wrong in this case.

[Noreaga]

CorvusCorvax, on 03 August 2018 - 02:22 PM, said:

I was wrong, and will gladly be wrong in this case.

 

i have often said that i would rather be this, than the clairvoyant on development ive become. 

[Prenzlau]

CorvusCorvax, on 03 August 2018 - 01:22 PM, said:

 

Good, good, I'm glad we got it straightened out.  There is a definite difference, and likely effect, from the different type and style of complaint.

 

My point, originally, was to help Prenzlau out by explaining that with any internet forum, you're going to have people who use the platform to cry and whine about stuff as a form of venting.  And as long as they feel like the world owes them something, they will continue to cry to anyone who listens.  It's part of the deal with anonymous internet forums, and reasoning with such folks is unlikely to change their behavior any.  So, one has to adapt and overcome.  It is not just in the WoWP forums that malcontents do this sort of thing, it's in about every single forum I've ever visited.  

 

After the last round of answers from blindfold on the Developer Q&A thread, I am cautiously optimistic that folks who offered suggestions and observations might get rewarded with positive game changes.  These do not look like they will be major gameplay changes like some folks are requesting, but at least it's SOMETHING positive.  If you had asked me a month ago if I thought that was possible, I would have told you, without any reservation, "No, no chance in hell."

 

I was wrong, and will gladly be wrong in this case.

 

Thanks Corvus. I was originally asking for some positivity and for people to just reflect on their attitudes. Maybe a noble request, maybe an effort in vain. In the beginning my goals were never to start or be apart of forum fights but brawling became necessary I suppose. You have to work with what you have, and all these many situations and decisions can ultimately be boiled down to a binary one. Stay or leave, forward or backward, play or don't play, pay or don't pay. So many emotions at stake it seems, and those who have been attached to this game, and disappointed, you have to shoulder some of it, sure you can list your failed expectations and issues, and if you are upset with them, that is understood. The excessive negativity, attacks, drama, and ultimatums, does not help anyone. I guess I'm saying that if your miserable and disappointed, there does come a point when it is no longer on game or the other people here, it is on you for keeping that disposition that you have going. You might argue that the game kept changing in a negative way, and we all understand that, and maybe that is the road sign to move on. If the game however is worth fighting for, then stay in the process, stay in the game and do what you can. 

I think Corvus is right about the momentum, and it is up the players to keep pushing and keep active. Keep your voices heard, but in a positive way. If you have to fight for inches to start with, then fight for inches, but those inches may turn into feet or meters someday. Mentally, and you can pick your situation and anyone who knows anything about survival with agree with me, if you pack it in mentally and give up, your gone. People think survival is a physical test and yes there is that part of it, but it is really psychological endurance that enables people to endure. 

People have given up and quit and they are proud of themselves and they get pats on the backs from others who have done the same. While I respect the choice to do so in the first place, in the end your really just celebrating and accepting that you gave up. Take that anyway you wish. 

All I'm asking is for some of you to give it "that ole collage try" just one more time if that is what it takes, you might be surprised or you might just have all your opinions confirmed for all time. If you don't demand change and become part of that change, then there is nothing more to do, nothing to wait for. 

 

Prenzlau

Edited by Prenzlau, 03 August 2018 - 08:59 PM.

[Perco_lator]

Prenzlau, on 03 August 2018 - 04:54 PM, said:

 

Thanks Corvus. I was originally asking for some positivity and for people to just reflect on their attitudes. Maybe a noble request, maybe an effort in vain. In the beginning my goals were never to start or be apart of forum fights but brawling became necessary I suppose. You have to work with what you have, and all these many situations and decisions can ultimately be boiled down to a binary one. Stay or leave, forward or backward, play or don't play, pay or don't pay. So many emotions at stake it seems, and those who have been attached to this game, and disappointed, you have to shoulder some of it, sure you can list your failed expectations and issues, and if you are upset with them, that is understood. The excessive negativity, attacks, drama, and ultimatums, does not help anyone. I guess I'm saying that if your you're miserable and disappointed, there does come a point when it is no longer on game or the other people here, it is on you for keeping that disposition that you have going. You might argue that the game kept changing in a negative way, and we all understand that, and maybe that is the road sign to move on. If the game however is worth fighting for, then stay in the process, stay in the game and do what you can. 

I think Corvus is right about the momentum, and it is up the players to keep pushing and keep active. Keep your voices heard, but in a positive way. If you have to fight for inches to start with, then fight for inches, but those inches may turn into feet or meters someday. Mentally, and you can pick your situation and anyone who knows anything about survival with agree with me, if you pack it in mentally and give up, your gone. People think survival is a physical test and yes there is that part of it, but it is really psychological endurance that enables people to endure. 

People have given up and quit and they are proud of themselves and they get pats on the backs from others who have done the same. While I respect the choice to do so in the first place, in the end your you're really just celebrating and accepting that you gave up. Take that anyway you wish. 

All I'm asking is for some of you to give it "that ole collage try" just one more time if that is what it takes, you might be surprised or you might just have all your opinions confirmed for all time. If you don't demand change and become part of that change, then there is nothing more to do, nothing to wait for. 

 

Prenzlau

 

Here is a collage of old doors, what do you think?

 

[Bubba_Zanetti]

Perco_lator, on 03 August 2018 - 04:42 PM, said:

 

Here is a collage of old doors, what do you think?

 

 

I'll take Door number 3 Monty!

 

Woohoo!

Edited by Bubba_Zanetti, 03 August 2018 - 10:03 PM.

[ComradeZ]

Perco_lator, on 03 August 2018 - 09:42 PM, said:

 

Here is a collage of old doors, what do you think?

 

 

Bubba_Zanetti, on 03 August 2018 - 10:02 PM, said:

 

I'll take Door number 3 Monty!

 

Woohoo!

 

You guys are the reason I stick around.