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How One Company reacts to a Bad Patch

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trikke #21 Posted 25 July 2018 - 02:21 AM

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i did get the gold bombs that i asked Santa for, so...

 

but i can certainly see the issues that has pi**ed a lot of NA pilots off

 

making us re-grind what we already owned seems... petty 

 

but losing us all wouldn't make much difference, because there's not many of us left... nope, there's not

 

but... how are the RU folks absorbing all this?


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f16falcona46 #22 Posted 25 July 2018 - 01:23 PM

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View Posttrikke, on 25 July 2018 - 02:21 AM, said:

i did get the gold bombs that i asked Santa for, so...

 

but i can certainly see the issues that has pi**ed a lot of NA pilots off

 

making us re-grind what we already owned seems... petty 

 

but losing us all wouldn't make much difference, because there's not many of us left... nope, there's not

 

but... how are the RU folks absorbing all this?

 

RU post 1 (Google Translate)

 

Do you want feedback? I have them.

I'll start from the fact that I'm against the pumping of those planes that I had already pumped. The same applies to the premiums, I think that the premi-airplanes must initially be with the unlocked Specialist, people paid real money for them, and they bought planes that do not need to be pumped, because they were presented with these planes, and now it turns out that they have to be rocked, and all the time that the players spent on the game on these planes is impaired. I also think that it was worth giving a specialist to those planes in which players had a raid of 50-70 fights, it would be fair to the players who played on these planes.

 

 

RU post 2 (Google Translate)

 • Nerf premium aircraft showed that the developers do not know their donators and do not understand them well. I will assume that this is because they themselves do not invest in online games. Can you take more donators for a super test? And use them not to search for bugs, but as a focus group to evaluate your ideas. 

• The idea of ​​pumping equipment and aircraft to a specialist is very interesting. I judge by myself: there really was excitement, a couple of days with pleasure flew. But the implementation was weak: many things did not work, much in the new system was simply not clear. I was able to figure it out, because my brother helped me + read the forum. IMHO, this should not be. The implementation should be simple and understandable: now it looks like you are stepping on your own rake a second time - in 2.0 the planes were simplified and became much clearer, and again you made them complicated. 

 

 



Prenzlau #23 Posted 25 July 2018 - 03:11 PM

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For those who know what "heart break" is, you will probably understand what I am about to say. You see heart break occurs when you are in a relationship, like this game and it's players, and one side (the game) without notice breaks it off for their own reasons. Leaving you to deal with all the unfulfilled fantasies and emotional baggage. Since that is all very emotionally painful, you don't deal with the stark reality fully, but you rationalize it all through some sort of twisted victimization. Since your not emotionally detached and have not processed your feelings fully, you proclaim the other (in this case this game) as the perpetrator and destroyer of your expectations. These chaotic and confused frustrations eventually turn into anger and resentment. Then your once true love (the game) is now your hated nemesis and your going to make it (the game) pay for what it did to you. Now this all sounds a little dramatic, but all the emotional venting and player justification is basically part of this process. The people who have low emotional I.Q.'s are having the hardest time with the changes and the realization that they are not loved and cared about in the way they would like to be. 

"This game doesn't respect us"... and that would be correct. But on the flip side, you don't respect the game, no more than you would respect a romantic relationship that went bad and broke up. If any of you behaved the way your doing about this game towards a person who broke off a relationship with you, well most of you would probably have restraining orders by now or you would be referred to as that "ex-creep" that once had a crush and could not give it up. 

"But this game is not a person, that is apples and oranges"... sort of, but the internal process is the same. If you have not realized it by now, your internal thoughts and emotions are very much detached from what we would call stark reality, and that little voice that is always with you, making up excuses and rationalizing everything in your favor, that is what Freud call the Ego, but there is endless debate as to what exactly that is. One thing is for sure, whatever little voice is talking to you, call it your conscious, it's job is to always make you safe, secure and satisfied, it has no other purpose and when things happen to you in life, that little voice is always there, influencing you to say and do things. 

If we were all Vulcan's from Star Trek, based on logic, this game and these forums would be empty because every one would have moved on from an obviously flawed game, but because we humans struggle with emotional attachment and detachment in which logic does not play a factor, well, here we all are. 

To steal a quote from LOTR, "I'm not on anyone's side, because no one is on my side". So I create my own purpose. I just want to provide some clarity and help people.

 

Prenzlau


Edited by Prenzlau, 25 July 2018 - 03:17 PM.

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Izgoy0899 #24 Posted 25 July 2018 - 04:43 PM

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View PostPrenzlau, on 25 July 2018 - 10:11 PM, said:

For those who know what "heart break" is, you will probably understand what I am about to say. You see heart break occurs when you are in a relationship, like this game and it's players, and one side (the game) without notice breaks it off for their own reasons. Leaving you to deal with all the unfulfilled fantasies and emotional baggage. Since that is all very emotionally painful, you don't deal with the stark reality fully, but you rationalize it all through some sort of twisted victimization. Since your not emotionally detached and have not processed your feelings fully, you proclaim the other (in this case this game) as the perpetrator and destroyer of your expectations. These chaotic and confused frustrations eventually turn into anger and resentment. Then your once true love (the game) is now your hated nemesis and your going to make it (the game) pay for what it did to you. Now this all sounds a little dramatic, but all the emotional venting and player justification is basically part of this process. The people who have low emotional I.Q.'s are having the hardest time with the changes and the realization that they are not loved and cared about in the way they would like to be. 

"This game doesn't respect us"... and that would be correct. But on the flip side, you don't respect the game, no more than you would respect a romantic relationship that went bad and broke up. If any of you behaved the way your doing about this game towards a person who broke off a relationship with you, well most of you would probably have restraining orders by now or you would be referred to as that "ex-creep" that once had a crush and could not give it up. 

"But this game is not a person, that is apples and oranges"... sort of, but the internal process is the same. If you have not realized it by now, your internal thoughts and emotions are very much detached from what we would call stark reality, and that little voice that is always with you, making up excuses and rationalizing everything in your favor, that is what Freud call the Ego, but there is endless debate as to what exactly that is. One thing is for sure, whatever little voice is talking to you, call it your conscious, it's job is to always make you safe, secure and satisfied, it has no other purpose and when things happen to you in life, that little voice is always there, influencing you to say and do things. 

If we were all Vulcan's from Star Trek, based on logic, this game and these forums would be empty because every one would have moved on from an obviously flawed game, but because we humans struggle with emotional attachment and detachment in which logic does not play a factor, well, here we all are. 

To steal a quote from LOTR, "I'm not on anyone's side, because no one is on my side". So I create my own purpose. I just want to provide some clarity and help people.

 

Prenzlau

 



trikke #25 Posted 25 July 2018 - 07:44 PM

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i''l admit that my friends are my strongest links to this game, followed closely by this forum

 

the game itself just acts mostly as a conversation-starter, since there's almost always something new

 

i do enjoy the game, to be sure... but it's number three on the list


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Lambo805 #26 Posted 25 July 2018 - 07:55 PM

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View PostCenotaph, on 24 July 2018 - 03:33 PM, said:

 

Did you even think about this before you posted it?

 

"You are mad, you have a right to be, this company is not deserving of our time and money" 

 

You just said it... it's right there, plain for all to see... then you end with this little gem.

 

"But, don't say anything negative that might give other people a warning about how bad this company is... because they need to screw more people out of their money!"

 

We are yelling "Fire!" because the game is self immolating before our very eyes... it's not our fault nobody listened till it was beyond dealing with.

 

This company has a VERY long history of ignoring feedback until people get infuriated... then they try to act like they give a damn and tell us to be "constructive".

 

You seem quite unsure of your own position on this matter... so, which is it?

 

I did, in detail. Did you think before rage responding?

I'm not even the slightest bit unsure of my position. Even a little. Not a tiny bit. I'm pissed. I'm beyond infuriated that everything everyone, including you, has said has gone unnoticed and instead we get more and more separated from the direction we need to be heading and they keep adding "features" like reduced XP/credits or super aggravating gun sounds or absolutely atrocious equipment system...but we don't get the same bugs we've been fighting since day one of 2.0 (excluding any carry overs from 1.0 because this is for most intents and purposes an all new game) or any of the aircraft we've been begging for added. So yeah, I'm pissed; but you missed the point. Yell fire, call in the fire brigade, send in the nukes...but do so strategically. Stop shredding people who can't fix the problems we're having and find a more constructive way to do things. Your response is a perfect example. Why attack me personally because I said things you dislike? What does that accomplish? Who are you helping? Hell, do you even feel better after doing it?

 

We cannot fix the game. We can't even get the people who can fix the game to fix the game. If it's that aggravating to you that you've left, then leave. That's like breaking up with someone because everything they did was infuriating for you, but you're still going to live in their house because it's free. Find your closure and move on if it's truly the end for you. No need to take your aggravation out on people who are still trying.

 

View PostSlappedbyRommel, on 24 July 2018 - 04:16 PM, said:

 

I am ok with your above stated points except 2 & 4 - Point 2: if the kingpin can own 2 multi million dollar homes he can afford staff. Point 4: if we are all silent than WG will continue to produce a yttihs product pressure needs to keep going by all and don't spend a cent.

 

First rule of business: you don't spend more money on something that isn't making you any money until the money you've already spent rebuilding it has some sort of an ROI. Those multi-million dollar homes are off the backs of WoT and WoWS. WoWP is likely why he only has two and not three.
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SonicPariah #27 Posted 25 July 2018 - 08:22 PM

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View Postmedoyehd, on 24 July 2018 - 07:25 PM, said:

 

Want to change your story, or phrased it differently as it is marked read by you on 21 June. 

 

 

Well, if you really want the truth:

 

Thank you for your feedback. Sorry you don't seem to want to play our game. 

 

However, we have provided your upset block of feedback to the Devs in its entirety. As your message did not have any positive ideas on how to fix or better the problem, it does not include a lot of ideas for us on how to better the product, but does include six different mentions of you leaving the game.

 

If you are still here, I would love POSITIVE ideas how to change and not a message about "I don't like this and it sucks" as that is not very constructive. If you choose to leave, we will miss you and hope to see you again soon!

 

In any case, Happy Flying! :honoring:



f16falcona46 #28 Posted 25 July 2018 - 08:39 PM

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View PostSonicPariah, on 25 July 2018 - 08:22 PM, said:

 

Well, if you really want the truth:

 

Thank you for your feedback. Sorry you don't seem to want to play our game. 

 

However, we have provided your upset block of feedback to the Devs in its entirety. As your message did not have any positive ideas on how to fix or better the problem, it does not include a lot of ideas for us on how to better the product, but does include six different mentions of you leaving the game.

 

If you are still here, I would love POSITIVE ideas how to change and not a message about "I don't like this and it sucks" as that is not very constructive. If you choose to leave, we will miss you and hope to see you again soon!

 

In any case, Happy Flying! :honoring:

 

There are three main suggestions his message contained:

1. Stability and performance--if people literally can't play the game, they won't.

2. Simplicity--as also mentioned by feedback on the RU forum, the game got a lot simpler in 2.0, but 2.0.5 made it more complicated again, and more confusing.

3. Money--"it's a shame your premium plane can't mount all equipment. But if you spend $65, you can get the exact same thing that can mount all equipment, what a bargain!" Or the plan on EU to sell the event reward pilots for money...it doesn't respect the efforts of people who want to specialize or who ground for the reward pilots.



SonicPariah #29 Posted 25 July 2018 - 09:02 PM

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View Postf16falcona46, on 25 July 2018 - 08:39 PM, said:

 

There are three main suggestions his message contained:

1. Stability and performance--if people literally can't play the game, they won't.

2. Simplicity--as also mentioned by feedback on the RU forum, the game got a lot simpler in 2.0, but 2.0.5 made it more complicated again, and more confusing.

3. Money--"it's a shame your premium plane can't mount all equipment. But if you spend $65, you can get the exact same thing that can mount all equipment, what a bargain!" Or the plan on EU to sell the event reward pilots for money...it doesn't respect the efforts of people who want to specialize or who ground for the reward pilots.

 

1. Check, as always.

2. Check, part of 2.0.5 Feedback.

3. Premium Planes have now been fixed.



f16falcona46 #30 Posted 25 July 2018 - 09:03 PM

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View PostSonicPariah, on 25 July 2018 - 09:02 PM, said:

 

1. Check, as always.

2. Check, part of 2.0.5 Feedback.

3. Premium Planes have now been fixed.

 

Huh, so the slot increase was official...

mnbv_fockewulfe #31 Posted 25 July 2018 - 09:50 PM

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View PostSonicPariah, on 25 July 2018 - 09:02 PM, said:

 

1. Check, as always.

2. Check, part of 2.0.5 Feedback.

3. Premium Planes have now been fixed.

 

3. Premium planes could use a little more fixing, imho.

Be sure to check your logic privileges before posting on the forum.

 

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Cenotaph #32 Posted 26 July 2018 - 03:45 AM

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View PostLambo805, on 25 July 2018 - 11:55 AM, said:

I did, in detail. Did you think before rage responding?

 

What you call rage, I call annoyance at your White Knighting for WG... "Don't say anything negative guys!"  while acceptable on your stream, I won't comply here...

 

If you are mad at the company and think their practices are unacceptable, be a man and stand by your conviction... I have no time for two-faced apologist behaviour.

 

 

But, you say you're mad... so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, just stop trying to be the playground monitor... you have no authority over me.

 

Months of constructive feedback has seemingly fallen of deaf ears, and you act incredulous that people are unruly?

 

--

 

Addendum:

 

I would argue that in the larger context... toxic behaviour -is- actually constructive, if you are willing to examine things in detail.

 

In this case, if you can look at the post history of a segment of the population, and notice a trend, over time, that seems to be mirrored among many... could be it's not just 1 guy being a jerk.

 

Going from friendly, helpful, constructive posts... to increasingly unhappy, critical and abusive posts could easily be indicative of a problem within the environment itself... not the subject.

 

Food for thought.

 

 


Edited by Cenotaph, 26 July 2018 - 04:12 AM.

I don't want to hurt you... I just want to kill you!

Izgoy0899 #33 Posted 26 July 2018 - 04:54 AM

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View PostSonicPariah, on 26 July 2018 - 04:02 AM, said:

 

1. Check, as always.

2. Check, part of 2.0.5 Feedback.

3. Premium Planes have now been fixed.

 

Last I check no they were not.  Premium planes by default should have been made specialist, as REAL money was used to buy them.  Not tell players to grind planes they paid real money for, or pay you more money. 

 

You want positive ideas....

Get rid of 2.0.5 and return to a simplistic game, and not telling players to regrind planes that they already grinded, or pay you money. 

Dump the entire casino passing as a calibration station

Stop squeezing your customers for as much money as you can get out of them in a dying game

Start working on seriously improving game quality, reliability, and stability. 

Hope Jim Sterling, or another main stream You Tuber(s), doesn't start caring about this. 

 

Also read Jeffery Gitomer's book "Customer Satisfaction is Worthless, Customer Loyalty is Priceless" since your CSR skills need some work. As your message here carries a tone of contempt in the writing. 

 

How that message and such should have been answered when you got it, or something on these lines. 

 

I am sorry to hear your frustration with the current change in the game, though I can completely understand your feelings on this.  We at WG would hate to lose you as a valued customer and I strongly hope that you will reconsider and stay with the game.  As of now I hope you can understand my position where I have no real control over the changes made to the game, but I will pass on the information that you, and other players, have given me to the development team.  Hopefully from this a solution that can satisfy them and the player base will be able to be achieved.  Again your choices are your own, but I sincerely hope that you reconsider and remain a playing customer with us.  I will as well do my best to keep the community informed of any information here in the forums as well as the World of Warplanes Discord.  I hope you will at the very least continue to follow us here. 

 

Not what you wrote after you lied about not getting it, which came across as thanks for your money, a few excuses put in, dodging any issues I brought up, and now sod off if you don't like it.  Empathy, it goes a long way. You are the Community Rep for WG, you NEED to actively address these issues. You as well lied again.  Seriously can you address issues, or just make cheap shots at players with nothing to support your accusations?  No where in my message did I say I was leaving, as you claim I did 6 times.  Said I was NOT giving you any more money, but I would get what I could out of it Line #4.  Unless you are referring to other posts where I stated I have uninstalled, which are irrelevant to the topic of this message I sent to you, but even in that I finished with saying I would come back if things changed still making your claim of my saying I was leaving 6 times irrelevant. Raibot is what I miss most about WoT Console.  She was completely awesome on these things.


Edited by medoyehd, 26 July 2018 - 07:49 AM.


Blast_Radius1 #34 Posted 26 July 2018 - 08:12 AM

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View PostPrenzlau, on 25 July 2018 - 03:11 PM, said:

For those who know what "heart break" is, you will probably understand what I am about to say. You see heart break occurs when you are in a relationship, like this game and it's players, and one side (the game) without notice breaks it off for their own reasons. Leaving you to deal with all the unfulfilled fantasies and emotional baggage. Since that is all very emotionally painful, you don't deal with the stark reality fully, but you rationalize it all through some sort of twisted victimization. Since your not emotionally detached and have not processed your feelings fully, you proclaim the other (in this case this game) as the perpetrator and destroyer of your expectations. These chaotic and confused frustrations eventually turn into anger and resentment. Then your once true love (the game) is now your hated nemesis and your going to make it (the game) pay for what it did to you. Now this all sounds a little dramatic, but all the emotional venting and player justification is basically part of this process. The people who have low emotional I.Q.'s are having the hardest time with the changes and the realization that they are not loved and cared about in the way they would like to be. 

"This game doesn't respect us"... and that would be correct. But on the flip side, you don't respect the game, no more than you would respect a romantic relationship that went bad and broke up. If any of you behaved the way your doing about this game towards a person who broke off a relationship with you, well most of you would probably have restraining orders by now or you would be referred to as that "ex-creep" that once had a crush and could not give it up. 

"But this game is not a person, that is apples and oranges"... sort of, but the internal process is the same. If you have not realized it by now, your internal thoughts and emotions are very much detached from what we would call stark reality, and that little voice that is always with you, making up excuses and rationalizing everything in your favor, that is what Freud call the Ego, but there is endless debate as to what exactly that is. One thing is for sure, whatever little voice is talking to you, call it your conscious, it's job is to always make you safe, secure and satisfied, it has no other purpose and when things happen to you in life, that little voice is always there, influencing you to say and do things. 

If we were all Vulcan's from Star Trek, based on logic, this game and these forums would be empty because every one would have moved on from an obviously flawed game, but because we humans struggle with emotional attachment and detachment in which logic does not play a factor, well, here we all are. 

To steal a quote from LOTR, "I'm not on anyone's side, because no one is on my side". So I create my own purpose. I just want to provide some clarity and help people.

 

Prenzlau

 

I'm afraid I have to second this, and the gist of what Lambo's getting at, too. Sonic is asking for clear, legible opinions (and remember that's all they really are). Leaving aside such emotions as frustration, anger, and a sense of personal injury, clearly state the technical issues that you see have made this an unpopular patch with the established players and what negative impact it may have on new players.

Here's mine:

  1. While it can be argued the game is in beta, the removal of all upgrades from our planes gives the impression that a) WG doesn't care about existing players, and b) that it is a cash grab of some kind. Even the return of upgrades to a select few of our aircraft that we have spent a lot of time on may help to decrease the amount of people who either have left or are leaving.
  2. The whole upgrade system is not explained clearly enough. If existing players like myself are confused by it, imagine the experience of a new player. They are unlikely to go to the forums or YouTube to get guidance for what is, after all, a vital part of the game now.
  3. The application of upgrades currently relies on victories only. Please reconsider this mechanic, as those (like myself) who struggle to keep any kind of decent win rate and still actually enjoy playing are put off playing completely (I currently do not play WoWP 2.0.5 for this reason)
  4. Please also reconsider the dice roll mechanic of applying upgrades, this is not a good feature for players who play on more of a casual basis.
  5. The new gun sound is both annoying and unnecessary. It also gives the impression of people wasting time on things that don't need attention as much as other parts of the game.

Kind regards,

Blastie.



blindfoId #35 Posted 26 July 2018 - 01:52 PM

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View PostBlast_Radius1, on 26 July 2018 - 11:12 AM, said:

Here's mine:

 

Thank you for constructive, sensible and beautifully structured feedback. We greatly appreciate it! We will definitely deliver your message to the developers. It was really pleasant to read :)



mnbv_fockewulfe #36 Posted 26 July 2018 - 02:01 PM

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View PostblindfoId, on 26 July 2018 - 01:52 PM, said:

 

Thank you for constructive, sensible and beautifully structured feedback. We greatly appreciate it! We will definitely deliver your message to the developers. It was really pleasant to read :)

 

The reason why we're angry now is because we gave our clear well formated feedback weeks ago and haven't heard anything back yet.

http://forum.worldof...eedback-thread/

Mine is the first reply.


Be sure to check your logic privileges before posting on the forum.

 

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f16falcona46 #37 Posted 26 July 2018 - 02:21 PM

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View PostBlast_Radius1, on 26 July 2018 - 08:12 AM, said:

I'm afraid I have to second this, and the gist of what Lambo's getting at, too. Sonic is asking for clear, legible opinions (and remember that's all they really are). Leaving aside such emotions as frustration, anger, and a sense of personal injury, clearly state the technical issues that you see have made this an unpopular patch with the established players and what negative impact it may have on new players.

The problem is that there is clear, legible feedback, for example, in the official 2.0.5 feedback thread about three weeks ago. This feedback hasn't been acted upon (Bug fixes and performance improvements? Where are they?). Yet the devs have not only ignored the feedback, but done many things which are the opposite, such as Big Boost Bug and pew pew. Any post of emotionless feedback would simply be a repeat of the corresponding post in the feedback thread.

 

Expressing frustration at the devs is also expressing "clear, legible opinions". There's only so far players can be ignored.



blindfoId #38 Posted 26 July 2018 - 03:13 PM

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Being angry won't help to deliver the message while being constructive - will. Though I understand your feelings.

 

However.

 

Your feedback from the topic mentioned above (thank you, mnbv_fockewulfe) was sent to the devs and you cannot say that there was no reaction. A great example is the reaction on feedback on Specialist Configuration - you, community, are asked to compile a list of planes to be changed first. When the bug on soundless bombs was reported, it was fixed within hours etc. I do not say that everything is perfect, of course, not. Optimization problems or bugged daily mission - these problems are known but not so easy to fix. It takes time. You don't suggest not to fix minor bugs unless all known problems are solved and taken care of, do you? 

 

Still I see your point. The community needs to be informed more thoroughly and I will do my best to take care of it. QnA-topic is planned and some other interesting things, including insight information. (: 

 

upd:

Plus, the system of collecting feedback will be slightly changed to make the process more structured and useful.



TheMadPizzler #39 Posted 26 July 2018 - 04:14 PM

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    01-26-2012

Here's what I think is funny:   Apparently, there was a recent micro-patch to fix specialist equipment slots for premium aircraft that came out a day or two ago?   We found out about it because someone here posted a question about it.....   and someone else found a note from the EU board saying what it was...

 

So... let me get this straight.  For the past month the players have been complaining about the patch and one of the recognized problems was 'communication.'    so... they roll out a 'quick fix patch'.. and don't tell anyone about it.     That kinda makes Sonic Pariah and other Administrators seem kinda worthless.   For the past month, SP has been active (kudos) about 'tell me about the problem"     well...  looks like they don't give a rats butt about using Community Contributors to communicate.

 

Good job!



TheMadPizzler #40 Posted 26 July 2018 - 04:30 PM

    Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 2311 battles
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  • Member since:
    01-26-2012

I know this company is persona-non-grata around here, but even they know basic customer retention skills:

 

https://worldoftanks...tchmaking-0718/

 

I mean, come on, if those guys can do it, how hard can it be?






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