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mnbv_fockewulfe #21 Posted 11 July 2018 - 04:22 PM

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View PostPrenzlau, on 11 July 2018 - 03:37 PM, said:

 

 

I, perhaps unlike you, still have a good chance of getting my pilots licences or even joining the military for that matter. If neither of those happen, I'm planing on the long game of investing into a simulator.  

The "adapt and overcome" [edited]can only carry you so far.

A simplified game isn't worth adapting to. These aren't WWII warplanes we're flying, they're fantasy spaceships under the guise of WWII warbirds. The arcade elements of the game was there to allow the player the ability to better focus on the stylized experience of WWII aerial dogfighting. The farther the game moves from that purpose, the less people will want to play it.


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Ace_BOTlistic_Cosmo #22 Posted 12 July 2018 - 02:11 AM

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View Postmnbv_fockewulfe, on 11 July 2018 - 11:22 AM, said:

The "adapt and overcome" bullspunk can only carry you so far.

yes... but... pip pip, stiff upper lip ol' chap

be strong and accept the bad with the worse...

carry on

 


if the pilot's good, see, I mean, if he's really..sharp, he can barrel that baby in so low [he spreads his arms like wings and laughs],

you oughtta see it sometime, it's a sight. A big plane like a '52. VRROOM! There's jet exhaust, fryin' chickens in the barnyard.


CorvusCorvax #23 Posted 16 July 2018 - 08:04 PM

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View Postmnbv_fockewulfe, on 11 July 2018 - 04:22 PM, said:

 

The "adapt and overcome" [edited]can only carry you so far.

A simplified game isn't worth adapting to. 

Well, we aren't having to set mixture control or flap settings or carb icing or trim or sight deflection settings, etc. etc., so what is the gripe?  We have unlimited ammo.  We have respawning stores.

 

For the love of Odin, this is an arcade game, and has been forever.  There are no real flight models.  There is nothing about getting a feel for the particular machine, except in the very broadest terms.  Even back under 1.x, the flight model was very basic, and you got to avoid the most hazardous part of flying - takeoff and landing.  Let's not pretend, at all, that WoWP is like flying in any way.  And here's the kicker - to those of us who are real pilots, in real life, WoWP isn't hardly like flying at all, and has NEVER been like flying.  Fly a real plane sometime and get back to me on how WoWP was ever like real flying.

 

WG changing the flight model to simplify it further doesn't do anything to change the very nature of the game itself.



mnbv_fockewulfe #24 Posted 16 July 2018 - 08:53 PM

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View PostCorvusCorvax, on 16 July 2018 - 08:04 PM, said:

Well, we aren't having to set mixture control or flap settings or carb icing or trim or sight deflection settings, etc. etc., so what is the gripe?  We have unlimited ammo.  We have respawning stores.

 

For the love of Odin, this is an arcade game, and has been forever.  There are no real flight models.  There is nothing about getting a feel for the particular machine, except in the very broadest terms.  Even back under 1.x, the flight model was very basic, and you got to avoid the most hazardous part of flying - takeoff and landing.  Let's not pretend, at all, that WoWP is like flying in any way.  And here's the kicker - to those of us who are real pilots, in real life, WoWP isn't hardly like flying at all, and has NEVER been like flying.  Fly a real plane sometime and get back to me on how WoWP was ever like real flying.

 

WG changing the flight model to simplify it further doesn't do anything to change the very nature of the game itself.

 

View Postmnbv_fockewulfe, on 11 July 2018 - 04:22 PM, said:

 

The arcade elements of the game was there to allow the player the ability to better focus on the stylized experience of WWII aerial dogfighting. The farther the game moves from that purpose, the less people will want to play it.

 


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CorvusCorvax #25 Posted 16 July 2018 - 11:21 PM

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And?  Your opinion is your opinion.  It's cool, and all, but nothing that matters at all to anyone but you.

 

I mean, I understand you'd like more flight dynamics, but where do you draw the line?  Mixture control?  Fuel supply?  Trim settings?  G-loading?  Ammo load-outs?  Gun jams?  Bullet ballistics?  Come on, there is a LOT of stuff in this game that isn't addressed even a little bit, and you're complaining that the game is more arcade than it was arcade a few months ago.

 

It's an arcade game, and here's the kicker:

 

It always has been an arcade game.  The fact that it is slightly more simplified from the previous iteration is pretty small potatoes in the grand scheme of arcade-ness.



Ace_BOTlistic_Cosmo #26 Posted 17 July 2018 - 03:52 AM

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Ok, we'll use a color coding to emphasize the level of insanity...

weather maps use this method to make it easier for some minds to understand

kind of like green is raining

yellow to orange is more intense showers

orange to red is very strong storms

red to blue to dark purple become dangerous insanity levels...

so here we go:

 

View PostCorvusCorvax, on 16 July 2018 - 06:21 PM, said:

And?  Your opinion is your opinion.  It's cool, and all, but nothing that matters at all to anyone but you.

 

I mean, I understand you'd like more flight dynamics, but where do you draw the line?  Mixture control?  Fuel supply?  Trim settings?  G-loading?  Ammo load-outs?  Gun jams?  Bullet ballistics?  Come on, there is a LOT of stuff in this game that isn't addressed even a little bit, and you're complaining that the game is more arcade than it was arcade a few months ago.

 

It's an arcade game, and here's the kicker:

 

It always has been an arcade game.  The fact that it is slightly more simplified from the previous iteration is pretty small potatoes in the grand scheme of arcade-ness.

so, you don't gain credibility by just making crap up and attributing it to someone else's beliefs

I believe you either don't understand his dislike for the game and are taking giant steps to indoctrinate him into your presently held opinion of the game... or

you are willingly feigning a misunderstanding of his well presented dislike of this new variation of the game (2.0.?) and enjoy the banter no matter how you may represent yourself to others

whatever it is... it's beyond silly to pursue this career choice


if the pilot's good, see, I mean, if he's really..sharp, he can barrel that baby in so low [he spreads his arms like wings and laughs],

you oughtta see it sometime, it's a sight. A big plane like a '52. VRROOM! There's jet exhaust, fryin' chickens in the barnyard.


CorvusCorvax #27 Posted 17 July 2018 - 05:31 PM

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View PostAce_BOTlistic_Cosmo, on 17 July 2018 - 03:52 AM, said:

Ok, we'll use a color coding to emphasize the level of insanity...

weather maps use this method to make it easier for some minds to understand

kind of like green is raining

yellow to orange is more intense showers

orange to red is very strong storms

red to blue to dark purple become dangerous insanity levels...

so here we go:

 

so, you don't gain credibility by just making crap up and attributing it to someone else's beliefs

I believe you either don't understand his dislike for the game and are taking giant steps to indoctrinate him into your presently held opinion of the game... or

you are willingly feigning a misunderstanding of his well presented dislike of this new variation of the game (2.0.?) and enjoy the banter no matter how you may represent yourself to others

whatever it is... it's beyond silly to pursue this career choice

 

My credibility isn't in question.  I am not attributing any beliefs, anywhere, because all I am questioning is where the line is drawn about whether or not someone will accept the arcadeness of the game.  The game was already about 90% arcade, prior to 1.5.  Now it's 92% arcade.  So, what, if we move the dial back to 85% arcade, all will be well?

 

I understand that folks don't like this version of the game, but to complain about the arcade part of it is idiotic, considering how arcade it was to begin with.  It was never a combat flight sim.  It was never any kind of sim.  For all the changes that have been made to the game, the flight model is so far down the list of stuff that should be fixed that it's laughable to talk about.  

 

You changing the subject to make it about me, rather than the actual topic of how arcade the game is - well, that's trending into some seriously hilarious irony.



Ace_BOTlistic_Cosmo #28 Posted 17 July 2018 - 05:47 PM

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View PostCorvusCorvax, on 17 July 2018 - 12:31 PM, said:

 

My credibility isn't in question.  I am not attributing any beliefs, anywhere, because all I am questioning is where the line is drawn about whether or not someone will accept the arcadeness of the game.  The game was already about 90% arcade, prior to 1.5.  Now it's 92% arcade.  So, what, if we move the dial back to 85% arcade, all will be well?

 

I understand that folks don't like this version of the game, but to complain about the arcade part of it is idiotic, considering how arcade it was to begin with.  It was never a combat flight sim.  It was never any kind of sim.  For all the changes that have been made to the game, the flight model is so far down the list of stuff that should be fixed that it's laughable to talk about.  

 

You changing the subject to make it about me, rather than the actual topic of how arcade the game is - well, that's trending into some seriously hilarious irony.

was your mother frightened whilst carrying you that causes you to have such a deep set anger/fear of arcade games and their mere mention? is that what defines and motivates you to pursue this argument long after it's been put to rest by simple summation... it's over

he made his point, you made yours...

and you even extrapolated some long, wrongheaded and convoluted reason to defend your opinion...

let's say a prayer, put it to rest and see if we can't get you some help with this arcadephobia

this is a caring and giving community...

by helping you we'd also be helping ourselves

:coin:

 

 

 


if the pilot's good, see, I mean, if he's really..sharp, he can barrel that baby in so low [he spreads his arms like wings and laughs],

you oughtta see it sometime, it's a sight. A big plane like a '52. VRROOM! There's jet exhaust, fryin' chickens in the barnyard.


CorvusCorvax #29 Posted 17 July 2018 - 06:34 PM

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View PostAce_BOTlistic_Cosmo, on 17 July 2018 - 05:47 PM, said:

was your mother frightened whilst carrying you that causes you to have such a deep set anger/fear of arcade games and their mere mention? 

The full and complete irony of you complaining about making stuff up - here you go.  And you were saying what about credibility, again?

 

:child:

 

 



Ace_BOTlistic_Cosmo #30 Posted 17 July 2018 - 09:01 PM

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View PostCorvusCorvax, on 17 July 2018 - 01:34 PM, said:

The full and complete irony of you complaining about making stuff up - here you go.  And you were saying what about credibility, again?

 

:child:

lol... you have a good sense of irony bro, thanks

:great:


if the pilot's good, see, I mean, if he's really..sharp, he can barrel that baby in so low [he spreads his arms like wings and laughs],

you oughtta see it sometime, it's a sight. A big plane like a '52. VRROOM! There's jet exhaust, fryin' chickens in the barnyard.


mnbv_fockewulfe #31 Posted 17 July 2018 - 09:49 PM

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View PostCorvusCorvax, on 16 July 2018 - 11:21 PM, said:

And?  Your opinion is your opinion.  It's cool, and all, but nothing that matters at all to anyone but you.

 

I mean, I understand you'd like more flight dynamics, but where do you draw the line?  Mixture control?  Fuel supply?  Trim settings?  G-loading?  Ammo load-outs?  Gun jams?  Bullet ballistics?  Come on, there is a LOT of stuff in this game that isn't addressed even a little bit, and you're complaining that the game is more arcade than it was arcade a few months ago.

 

It's an arcade game, and here's the kicker:

 

It always has been an arcade game.  The fact that it is slightly more simplified from the previous iteration is pretty small potatoes in the grand scheme of arcade-ness.

 

Let's break this down.

Fuel mixture isn't needed because it only really matters when changing altitude in a planned climb or dive. In a dogfight, you aren't going to change your altitude enough for this to make a difference, and most late war planes had this automated anyway. 

-Fuel supply is partially simulated by the time limit of the match.

-Pilot effects of blacking out aren't needed, if the flight physics don't allow for planes to go beyond realistic G-loadings. Currently, the P51H can experience 10Gs at roughly 480km/h, yeah right. Right now we're in WT territory where pulling 10Gs is a fine situation. Don't get me wrong, pulling 10Gs should be be possible, but only at a much higher airspeed. Currently, it's possible to pull 14Gs at 740km/h.

-Trim settings would be appreciable to me as a joystick player, since it isn't really necessary for mouse it would actually add to the quality of the game while remaining optional.

-Ammo loadouts are simulated by overheat times and purchasable ammo

-Gun jams are equivalent to pilot crits

-Bullet ballistics don't exist in the game as of 1.9. This sorely needs to change.

-When the game was an arcade game, it was classified as such because it took liberties with real world aspects of flying to create an exhilarating, fast paced, stylization of air combat. 

-The game is an arcade now because: it's flight physics and gun physics are totally made up, the performances of planes are simplified and made up, mario kart consumables that magically fix your wing, boost your speed infinitely, magically make you turn faster, and convoluted gamemode.    

See the distinction? 


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CorvusCorvax #32 Posted 18 July 2018 - 03:09 AM

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View Postmnbv_fockewulfe, on 17 July 2018 - 09:49 PM, said:

 

Let's break this down.

Fuel mixture isn't needed because it only really matters when changing altitude in a planned climb or dive. In a dogfight, you aren't going to change your altitude enough for this to make a difference, and most late war planes had this automated anyway. 

-Fuel supply is partially simulated by the time limit of the match.

-Pilot effects of blacking out aren't needed, if the flight physics don't allow for planes to go beyond realistic G-loadings. Currently, the P51H can experience 10Gs at roughly 480km/h, yeah right. Right now we're in WT territory where pulling 10Gs is a fine situation. Don't get me wrong, pulling 10Gs should be be possible, but only at a much higher airspeed. Currently, it's possible to pull 14Gs at 740km/h.

-Trim settings would be appreciable to me as a joystick player, since it isn't really necessary for mouse it would actually add to the quality of the game while remaining optional.

-Ammo loadouts are simulated by overheat times and purchasable ammo

-Gun jams are equivalent to pilot crits

-Bullet ballistics don't exist in the game as of 1.9. This sorely needs to change.

-When the game was an arcade game, it was classified as such because it took liberties with real world aspects of flying to create an exhilarating, fast paced, stylization of air combat. 

-The game is an arcade now because: it's flight physics and gun physics are totally made up, the performances of planes are simplified and made up, mario kart consumables that magically fix your wing, boost your speed infinitely, magically make you turn faster, and convoluted gamemode.    

See the distinction? 

 

The distinction is completely artificial and exists solely in your mind.  The level of arcade is merely drawing the line in one place or another, each VERY far away from flight sim.  Boost settings?  Engine overrun? pecularities in flight characteristics of various aircraft?  Like the Spitfire and use of negative G loading causing fuel starvation...

 

In addition, there have been choices made about game balance that allow some pretty crazy stuff even if there weren't consumables.  Engine fire in a Japanese plane?  You're destroyed.  Radiator puncture in a P-51 or Bf-109?  Your fight is over.  Supercharger failure in a P-38?  Maybe if you're lucky you can limp around and survive the battle.  More than likely, you're a sitting duck.

 

The bottom line is that it's either a lot arcade, or it's a lot plus a little more arcade.  Some combat flight sims were really interesting.  Did you ever play Tornado?  That was a fantastic game.  If you had bombs loaded for your mission and got jumped by the ADA MiGs, you had a choice - get shot down because your plane was a pig with a full load, or abandon your mission and try and escape or dogfight.  No such thing as a bombkill.  No such thing as surviving seconds and seconds of concentrated fire from your six. 

 

Falcon 3.0/4.0?  These were combat flight sims that had small elements of arcade to make them playable.  WoWP has never, even once, been anywhere close to these games.  At no point in WoWP do I ever have to think about my machine, and whether or not the things I'm doing to it will cause it to fold up and crash to earth.  An Me-262 in a full throttle dive, then yank on the stick, full deflection at 1000kph?  The wings would pull right off, and I'd be a smoking crater.  Heck, almost no airframes, until the late 60s, could you max out at human G-loading limits.  They would break first.  

 

Your distinction is one with no difference.  I see it, but I don't see in any way how it's relevant in a game that was arcade to begin with.  Cartoonishly arcade.  And I do actually understand why you draw the line where you do.  I just don't think it matters at all to WG.  I don't think any of our opinions matter to WG.



Bobby_Tables #33 Posted 18 July 2018 - 03:31 AM

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Good lord, this thread has become more boring that that other thread I just read through (pick one, I am not fussy). 

 

Way to go team!  You took an irreverant and slightly goofy thread into a deep and convoluted back-and-forth based on two opinions that are so close together they could be cojoined twins in a house of mirrors.    

 

 


Edited by Bobby_Tables, 18 July 2018 - 03:31 AM.


mnbv_fockewulfe #34 Posted 18 July 2018 - 06:15 PM

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View PostBobby_Tables, on 18 July 2018 - 03:31 AM, said:

Good lord, this thread has become more boring that that other thread I just read through (pick one, I am not fussy).

 

Way to go team!  You took an irreverant and slightly goofy thread into a deep and convoluted back-and-forth based on two opinions that are so close together they could be cojoined twins in a house of mirrors.   

 

 

 

Bobby sorry, nothing to see here, go back to sleep.:(

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