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Official Update 2.0.5 Feedback Thread


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SonicPariah #1 Posted 22 June 2018 - 10:39 PM

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Howdy all!

 

Now that Update 2.0.5 has been out for a bit and players are used to the new systems or have at least given them a chance, we are launching this thread to gather feedback.

 

Please note that this is feedback, not venting or voicing frustrations, but actual FEEDBACK that we can use or will help us improve the game in any way.



mnbv_fockewulfe #2 Posted 22 June 2018 - 11:22 PM

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First.

in the process of composing...


Ah well, where to start?

The Good

-The return of replays. This was a good re-addition that will hopefully make recordings easier.

-Real time updating of stats taking into account equipment

-Making min/max optimum airspeeds available to the hanger. Please update this for the website.

-Fixed bug of Bombers not spawning from command center

-Multi region now available without separate instances of the game or mod

-Universal ammo is cheaper and more readily available to be mounted on all my planes

-More variety in equipment and consumable choices and buffs

The Bad

-Personally, experiencing worse FPS

-The new camera effects make me sick. When approaching stall, the aircraft will appear to buck, shake, and bank all over the place despite for the fact that I "know" as a modder that the aircraft isn't really moving at all.  

-Tone down the shaking of the camera 

-Replays are showing the extreme desync between player's clients and the server. Tracer rounds are missing horrendously yet hits are still being registered. This makes replays gruesome to watch.

-Get your servers straight with Client Side Prediction. It's a nail in the coffin of the game, I say give players an option to turn off CSP who don't need it.

-The camera in replays doesn't follow the camera movements made during the actual game. The camera is locked to the front of the aircraft. This doesn't give a clear impression of what I was doing during the game.

-Allow the camera to follow the movements I made during the game for replays.

-Reset of all controls due to the patch. This is especially hard on joystick users to rebind all their buttons.

-Apparently a bug not allowing players to adjust the input curves for joysticks.

The Ugly

-The new equipment system was not tested on a Community Server before implementation. This resulted in the patch being largely  not received well. Other factors include: generally no warning of the nature/content of the patch before hand, general ambiguity to how the new system works, a lack of official forum posts of the numerous efforts made by WG to educate us to how the new system worked.

-Run a CT when making balance/content changes to the game. Stop being ambiguous with the direction of the game. Tell the players what you plan on doing. The surprise approach hasn't worked for over 4 years.

-The new equipment system feels like a huge nerf to all the planes in my hanger. Probably more than half the planes in the game now have less than 3 equipment slots available in Elite status. Planes that used to have 3 slots are now limited to only two.

-Give every plane in the game at least 3 equipment slots like they used to.

-The new equipment system feels like a huge nerf to all the planes in my hanger. Equipment pieces that used to provide decent buffs (for example: gunsight +10% to accuracy) now start with start with much more inferior buffs (gunsight is now only +5%). I have to grind the equipment to get it back to the state I had it before with no work.

-Equipment now gives debuffs as well as buffs to certain aspects of our planes. As a virtual fighter pilot, I only make compromises when I absolutely have to. The whole point is to give myself as many advantages as I can over the other guy without any expense to myself. The min-maxing nature of the new equipment messes with my psychology. I would rather have no buffs than a worse buff than I had before plus a debuff.

-I understand the reasoning behind the min-maxing balance. Since the new equipment allows us to potentially reach greater buffs than the old system, you need something to balance it out.

-The new equipment upgrades/stacks to provide too much advantage. For example: it's now possible to achieve upwards of 21% accuracy before factoring pilot skills (not to mention increases to fire starting chance and critical hits chance we didn't have access to before) . Buffs like this contribute to a drastically larger New Player Gap. The majority of the player base falls into two main categories: those who play a lot/often; and those who play a little/infrequently. Due to the extremely grindy nature of equipment upgrading and specialization, players who play a lot will invariably run into players who play a little often. The debuffs aren't sufficient to impair a good pilot, therefore punishing the player who plays less. New players will be shot down more easily and potentially lose more often, driving them away. This principle extends to players who play a lot but have few battles in their airplanes. Before, if I took out my equipped Spitfire (a plane of mine with a low battle count), I was on even terms with any other human Spitfire bar pilot skills. Now I will be at a disadvantage to someone who plays the Spitfire a lot.   

-Return equipment to it's previous static buff values. Remove the ability to enhance equipment. Keep the ability to calibrate equipment but use more modest buff values. Remove the debuffs from equipment (they are no longer necessary since buffs will be more modest).

-If the above feedback is not listened to at least make the currency required for enhancement and calibration available even on a loss. Others will hopefully cover this in greater detail. Remove the random and RNG factor for enhancing and calibrating equipment.

-Specialization. This idea feels rather poorly thought out and implemented.

-Specialization is a grind fest to get planes that I already had perfectly outfitted back to the state I once had them in. My oldest and most flown planes have 960, 450, 320, and 230 battles respectively. None of the achievements for those battles have been contributed toward specialist status for those planes. I have to grind these planes again on top of grinding for better equipment to get them back to the state I had them in just last patch.

-Have our old stats and battle counts/achievements (this goes for 1.x and 2.0 players alike) calculated towards completing specialist status for our planes.

-To extend this to premiums, make all previously purchase or won premiums automatically in specialist status. We should not have to grind planes we payed for.  

-The location and availability of slots is internally inconsistent. The unstated purpose of this patch was to better herd players into playing their airplanes in the dev's defined class roles. However, many planes (Multi Role Fighters being the worse offenders) do not have their slots optimized for their class role. For example: many MRFs do not have an outboard weapons slot, even though the role of MRFs is allegedly to assist in taking out ground targets. Another example is Ground Attack Aircraft not being able to mount tail gunner equipment, when GA essentially live or die by their TGs. Yet another example of equipment we had access to before, that we no longer have access to.

-This is the best solution I've heard yet: start every plane with 3 equipment slots and 3 consumable slots base, while offering extra slots to be unlocked in specialist, and let the player choose which modules to attach which slots to, with a max of 2 slots for equipment and 2 slots for consumables per module. This would remove any limitations with the current system.

-Multi Role Fighters and Heavy Fighters are forced into using ordnance in specialist configuration when most players and planes don't work well with said ordnance.

-Allow MRF and HF to fly without ordnance in specialist configuration. And let GA choose which ordnance they want.  

-Gold consumables. Need. To. Die. My favorite offender: the return of High Octane Fuel. This silver only consumable was removed in update 1.8 and replaced with engine tuning because "it provided an unfair advantage" and now it's available only for gold plus 6% to engine power (which is directly proportional to a 6% increase in acceleration) instead of 5%. This is a pay to win consumable along with the bombs with increased radius and damage available only for gold.

-Without a reliable source of gold from clan wars, it makes no sense to have gold consumables. Make all gold consumables additionally available for silver.


 

Did I miss anything? I may add more to this later.

Pls don't hate for the use of red ink.:hiding:
 

Personal anecdote time.

I remember a while back thinking,"Gee, I wish I could have four equipment slots on my planes instead of just three. Then I could mount all of the equipment I want on my planes without having to choose which buff to leave out of my build. That would truly make my BnZ build OP as I would be able to mount the maneuvering equipment piece making my increased speed more efficient. But that would be OP, so I understand why they won't do that..."    


 


 


Edited by mnbv_fockewulfe, 23 June 2018 - 07:19 PM.

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Cenotaph #3 Posted 22 June 2018 - 11:31 PM

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Yeah, hard to build up the urge to give feedback, especially given how the folks at the top generally respond.

 

For example...

 

When presented with feedback about how the Valkyrie event was only rewarding people who played nearly non-stop, and was hardly a fair event for most players... we were given the following reply.

 

"I don't see how you can blame the developers for your own lack of time management"

 

This type of reply is typical, and quite insulting...

 

Likewise, the thought of presenting feedback on the current equipment changes, and concerns about the insane grind, or gap in power that is going to appear between hardcore and regular players, is almost laughable when we have come to expect "How Terrible" as the type of reply this companies top staff thinks is acceptable.

 

I would suggest that if you want some decent feedback... provide some small evidence it will ever be listened to. <--- THAT , is my feedback... and it is certain to improve the game.

 

 

My post would look alot more like Magus' below, if I thought that anyone with real power would listen.


Edited by Cenotaph, 23 June 2018 - 12:03 AM.

I don't want to hurt you... I just want to kill you!

MagusGerhardt #4 Posted 22 June 2018 - 11:42 PM

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View PostMagusGerhardt, on 22 June 2018 - 09:29 AM, said:

 

 

 

My evaluation, feedback and suggestions are all in these two review, Sonic.  I also have a text version of my suggestions.

 

1.  Specialist Aircraft.  Specialist aircraft remain in the game, but not as currently designed.  All aircraft, be they premium or tech line, have ALL of their equipment and consumable slots unlocked and available for use upon research or purchase.  Specialist aircraft instead are tech-tree aircraft only, and when a tech line aircraft becomes Specialist its economics are altered to perform in the exact same manner as a premium aircraft of the same class and tier for credit and xp generation only.  These Specialist aircraft still must have a crew trained specifically for them for crew abilities to function at full effect.

 

2.  Specialist Aircraft Mission.  Get rid of the Victory requirement to advance.  If I'm spending time in the game I expect every minute spent to advance my goals in a very linear manner.  In 2.0 particularly solo carrying is an impossibility, so stop punishing us for having stupid team mates and useless bots.  If I'm playing, I'm advancing.  Period.

 

3.  Consumables.  Make all consumable slots available on all aircraft; this is part of changing the Specialist status from something terrible to something good.  Furthermore, unlock the consumable placements and let us use them in the order we choose.  Also, give us an additional "Embellishment" consumable slot that can mount only the non-combat consumables like Smoke Flares, Sparklers and Firework Rockets.  A parting shot on this; you may want to rethink bringing back things like High Octane Fuel, which you stated was OP and Game Breaking back when you removed it over two years ago.

 

4.  Equipment.  Remove all negatives from all equipment immediately.  Combined with the limited consumable slots these are restricting fun and making it a chore to play your game.  That does not result in increased concurrent player logins and more battles played.  Quite the opposite, really.  The greater variety of equipment now available is completely overshadowed by these negatives and the needlessly complex Improvement system.  The base level of all equipment should be available for credit purchase with no negatives, regardless of aircraft class or player skill.

 

5.  Equipment Improvement.  This system is needlessly complex, obtuse and arcane.  Add to that the RNG element of "maybe you get nothing" and "maybe you don't get what you want" and the system is just horrible.  I would want this completely removed, but since you've already made the mistake of SELLING this advantage we can't do that, now can we?  But what you CAN do is remove the failure chance RNG aspect, allow players to collect their salvage whether the battle was a win or a loss and allow us to choose what we improve and how we improve it once the required materials are gathered.  Give reduced salvage on a loss, but give us something.  And finally STOP selling this advantage in the premium shop.


 

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson to William Stephens Smith, Paris, 13 Nov. 1787


hamhockjones #5 Posted 22 June 2018 - 11:53 PM

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 Ok, thanks for removing those handicaps like hurt pilot, then death regardless of our hp. thank you!  To make it a realistic as possible, the AA guns should go silent when an enemy plane is over a sector that they just took. In real life they would never shoot flack into the air when their own planes could get hit accidently. Plus its hard enough to dogfight a thin skinned plane that is outnumbered by enemy planes plus sector air defense planes.. Another thing is that their are way to many big planes in each game especially when most are bots. If humans choose big planes then so be it, but having 8 bigs in a game when 6 of them are bots is a little to much. Just use more fighter plane bots so we can dogfight more instead of trying to fight and dodge heavies bots trying to crash into you.. I think most would agree with these changes, of coarse not all will..I think yall are trying to even up the bots on each team and that's good ! I think your moving in the right direction . THANKS   HAM

Cenotaph #6 Posted 22 June 2018 - 11:56 PM

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Omg , Hammy... for the 3rd time, there wasn't any "pilot death" going on, the servers were unstable and damage registration was wonky...   :facepalm:

 

 

Do you even read the threads you start?!   http://forum.worldofwarplanes.com/index.php?/topic/53172-5-sectors-taken-in-2-minutes/page__p__739289#entry739289


Edited by Cenotaph, 23 June 2018 - 12:01 AM.

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hamhockjones #7 Posted 23 June 2018 - 12:13 AM

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OK

LMG #8 Posted 23 June 2018 - 12:31 AM

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At the moment I took an indefinite break from the game for one main reason: restricting specialist progress to require constant wins. This makes the experience of the game miserable when in a loss streak, as not only do I have to deal with my team's shenanigans, whether they are bots or not, but all the progress I make is made null. This is especially agravating in close matches, as I try my best to get the victory in a panic instead of the thrill of the battle. The rage is beyond description if the match is lost at that point. Because of that, my main and most critical point is that:

 

Specialist configurations should not require victories to unlock!

 

With that aside, here's a list of my second most critical suggestions for this patch:

  • Allow specialist configurations to at the very least switch ordnance loadouts. Locking planes into one type of ordnance severely limits their potential, especially when one type of ordnance deals more damage to ground targets in a larget area than the other, like the case of american aircraft that have both Tiny Tims and large bombs available, one of which is better for destroying ground targets and the other for dealing with low-flying aircraft. This really handicaps the people that want all the benefits from specialist (like unlocking plane-critical equipment/consumable slots and additional bonuses from enhanced equipment) but don't like flying the plane a certain way.

 

  • Allow players to choose which equipment and consumable slots they want to use without having the specialist configuration. In the case of my GAAs I used to go for gun accuracy, HP and longer range on my reargun. At the moment I would love to at least be able to keep my gun accuracy and higher health pool, but for most of my planes the gunsight equipment is locked behind the specialist configuration, and instead I get to upgrade my guns. The one piece of equipment that would properly benefit my GAAs with large, slow-firing cannons decreases gun accuracy, which makes me not want to equip it since those big guns already have iffy accuracy to start with. I'd love to be able to instead make the guns more consistent instead, or maybe try for faster reloading ordnance.

 

  • Reward players with materials on losing games, even if at a lower rate. This is partly tied to my first suggestion, as it makes losses discouraging and infuriating to players. Well, a lot more than usual since your progress is basically halted. The game should do the opposite and try to give the players a reason to keep going even when things aren't going their way. Imagine trying to grind up a line of aircraft, except you received no XP when you lost a game; it would be nightmarish!

 

And a list of optional QoL suggestions that would really aleviate the impact of 2.0.5 and possibly take it more of an improvement in the eyes of players:

  • If possible, allow specialist configurations full module customization. Aside of using modules that are not part of the specialist configuration, running the plane elite is a straight up disadvantage, as you not only miss on critical equipment and consumable slots, enhanced equipment cannot be upgraded past a threshold without removing all passive bonuses.

 

  • Allow players to pick equipment and consumable slots out of all the ones available. This gives players the proper freedom to customize their aircraft as they see please. If the tier restriction should still apply, then just allow players to use up a certain number of equipment slots relative to the aircraft's tier (for example, on a TSh-2 I could pick two equipment slots out of all the ones that are available).

 

  • Remove the negative aspects of equipment. We already make sacrifices when we select one specific equipment over another. Making the equipment handicap our planes does not feel right, especially when "upgrading" it just makes the impact even larger. At least at base value, the equipment should not have a negative attribute.

 

  • What about a forward weaponry equipment that increases firing accuracy or damage against certain targets? That's the first thing that comes to mind when someone tells me I can upgrade my guns.

 

  • Maybe add back turret upgrades for some aircraft? Atm I think only bombers can use the things, and since I don't fly them that's about 12 useless turret equipment in my depot.

 

  • Please cut it down with the microtransactions, or hold them back until this patch is sorted out. Many players are not happy with the game, and they surely won't like being sold that happiness back. It's even making me question whether I should just call it quits altogether.

Edited by LMG, 25 June 2018 - 01:42 PM.

This is my IL-2 (t). There are many like it, but this one is mine. :child:

BuffaloTime #9 Posted 23 June 2018 - 12:46 AM

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Look at Magus and LMG suggestions. I second those. 

  1. Female and other special pilots need to be put back in hangar. ( Doesn't impact gameplay but why would you take something away like that? )
  2.  Make Attrition a choice in combat mode.
  3.  Make putting pilots in Premium plane increase experience.
  4.  Clan Wars ( just kidding )

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Captain_Underpants53 #10 Posted 23 June 2018 - 12:46 AM

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I only fly the bombers.  It is amazing how stupid I have gotten with bombing since the 14th of June patch.  I have never lost so many games in just one week before.  This is with all six Spec bombers with five of them Ultimate all the way.  One bomber still has an Advanced slot.  Makes me wonder about the value of the Ultimate designation.

Bobby_Tables #11 Posted 23 June 2018 - 12:56 AM

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I am going to second and third some of the earlier posts:

 

1) Specialist configurations should not require victories to unlock!  Too grindy as it is now.

 

2) Allow specialist configurations to switch ordnance loadouts. The new equipment configurations and calibration enable customization of the plane and yet specialist locks in the ordnance.  That does not make sense.  Why promote greater plane customization and then lock ordnance once a plane reached specialist?

 

3) Reward players with materials on losing games, but at a lower rate than if victory.  Maybe a couple of brave mechanics ventured into enemy territory.   

 

4) Allow players to pick equipment and consumable slots out of all the ones available. You may limit the number of consumables or equipment slots but again the current restrictions goes against the whole theme of greater customization.  

 

5) Remove or rethink the negative aspects of equipment. Currently, it seems like the negatives stack on top of each other.  For example, a lot of the fighter equipment has a negative impact on the pilot health pool.  As you gain more equipment, the pilot's health pool degrades to the point where they are constantly getting injured.  This only increases player frustration and makes the player question the logic behind the equipment negative values.  

 

6) Reduce the number of tokens required to complete the specialist mission as a player progresses on the mission.  For example, if I am 50% to completion, it should require only 50% of the tokens compared to if I am at 0% completion.  I would anticipate many more tokens would be exchanged for specialist if this was the case.  [this is my 1st edit]

 

7) Change the Specialist missions for multi roles or at the very least, change it for specific multi role aircraft.  Some multi role aircraft do not carry bombs or rockets so requiring them to go after ground targets is not a good way to encourage good game play.  Again, in the theme of customization, if a player wishes to play their multi role as a fighter they should be allowed to do so.  This updates attempts to force the multi role into a ground attack mode which is in direct opposition to the makeup of some of these multi role aircraft.  

 

8) Require every developer directly associated with the design and support of the game to play at least 50 games per week on the PRODUCTION servers (actual game servers not test servers).  This should be mandated and tracked by management and designers and support techs who do not meet this requirement should be docked for inadequate attention to their own product.    

 

Thanks for reading.  I know this is redundant, but I figure the more people make the same suggestions, the greater the chance that we will be heard.  


Edited by Bobby_Tables, 03 July 2018 - 03:10 AM.


cobra_marksman #12 Posted 23 June 2018 - 01:25 AM

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Remove the " Must win " to receive anything other then silver credit. Do you not see this as a Major problem in the game?  You have players playing their butts -off scoring high on the final chart only to Lose to an inferior team due to the unbalance of your DumbBots Which are controlling the flow of wins or losses. To be cheated out of a win is one thing, but to be cheated out of a win, and any gear for their effort is shameful &unacceptable. You guys Need to Wake -Up before it becomes too late, because membership in clans & players are down. The number of players still gaming,along with the number of battles being played are getting worse each passing day.  When a Game becomes more Frustrating then Enjoyable.... as posted by your members & then it goes silent by wowp.... players simply stop playing & leave.

Edited by cobra_marksman, 23 June 2018 - 02:05 AM.


mnbv_fockewulfe #13 Posted 23 June 2018 - 01:30 AM

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Phycology is the study of algae.:trollface:

 

edit:
A message to your friends in Kiev, Sonic.

They may think they listen to feedback, but unless they act on the feedback it's just the same as not listening.

WOWP dev- "It hurts when I do this"

WOWP players "then don't do that!"

WOWP dev- does it again "ouch")))) 


Edited by mnbv_fockewulfe, 23 June 2018 - 02:27 AM.

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HANNIBAL_LECTER_1 #14 Posted 23 June 2018 - 02:13 AM

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View PostSonicPariah, on 22 June 2018 - 07:39 PM, said:

Howdy all!

 

Now that Update 2.0.5 has been out for a bit and players are used to the new systems or have at least given them a chance, we are launching this thread to gather feedback.

 

Please note that this is feedback, not venting or voicing frustrations, but actual FEEDBACK that we can use or will help us improve the game in any way.

 

Do you accept comments in Spanish too?...

 



mnbv_fockewulfe #15 Posted 23 June 2018 - 02:21 AM

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View PostHANNIBAL_LECTER_1, on 23 June 2018 - 02:13 AM, said:

 

Do you accept comments in Spanish too?...

 

 

Go ahead, it can't hurt.

So long as the general idea gets through not too much should be lost in translation.


Edited by mnbv_fockewulfe, 23 June 2018 - 02:21 AM.

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nwlxn12 #16 Posted 23 June 2018 - 02:35 AM

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Can you give players a reset on their pilot skills since a couple of those skills increase the effects of equipment?  With this new system those skills would be worthless if we no longer have that equipment installed due to a locked slot or just because we choose to go a different path with the new equipment options.

Cenotaph #17 Posted 23 June 2018 - 02:38 AM

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They still have an effect on equipment, for example Aerodynamics Expert gives a 40% boost on any equipment stat that has anything to do with mobility and speed... regardless of slot.
I don't want to hurt you... I just want to kill you!

nwlxn12 #18 Posted 23 June 2018 - 02:43 AM

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View PostCenotaph, on 22 June 2018 - 08:38 PM, said:

They still have an effect on equipment, for example Aerodynamics Expert gives a 40% boost on any equipment stat that has anything to do with mobility and speed... regardless of slot.

 

OK, let me rephrase it then.  Before this patch, I had three pieces of equipment that were boosted and now I may only have chosen 1 or 2 that it boosts.  I would rather get a different pilot skill because of this change than keep aerodynamic expert.  The pilot skill touched the equipment that was changed and I no longer think I maximize that skill because I now chose different equipment that does no effect handling or I have chose less pieces of handling equipment and I don't feel that skill is worth it anymore and a different one is better.

Edited by nwlxn12, 23 June 2018 - 02:46 AM.


ClosedCoffin #19 Posted 23 June 2018 - 04:15 AM

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The winner take all materials situation feels right to me. It just does.

I'm at 50% or so winrate in 20+ games today and i still like this aspect of the new update.

 

 



PoliticallyIncorrectName #20 Posted 23 June 2018 - 08:38 AM

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  1. Double or triple the amount of materials dropped
  2. Use WoT's chevron system - top 10 players on winning team get materials, top 3 players on losing team get materials as well. This way the botting/afk is fixed
  3. When calibrating equipment you should not get negative rolls. This is huge material sink and actually demotivates me from getting materials in first place.
  4.  Tiers 1&2, especially tier 2 premiums have more slots than ordinary tech tree planes therefore making them pay-to-win.
  5. Mission for multiroles where you need to get X amount of points for ground pounding is terrible - not all multiroles have ordnance (I-260 as an example)
  6. Air defence aircraft are utterly overpowered, especially heavy ones that place bombers for #1 focus.
  7. When patch dropped we should have gotten a few hundred materials for reason of nerfing all the equipment to worse.
  8. The complexity increased for new players.
  9. Now I can grind materials in Tier 10 and super-upgrade my tier 2 planes and roflstomp newbies even harder. Not a great thing.
  10. Having 70 planes that need to be re-fitted with a sh*tton of materials needed... I've fully refitted one lowtier plane that has cheaper modules and I cannot imagine refitting a Tier 10.
  11. Although being on vacation and having a lot of time to farm materials, the progression is not good enough. I can only imagine what progression will be on day-to-day basis when I won't be having more than 2 hours to play. Therefore I feel like this is pay-to-win mechanics as the equipment enhances the performance a LOT and without it is in big disadvantage.

 

Given fact that I need to grind about 10 hours to get one piece of supreme equipment (for high tier) fully calibrated is hugely demotivating me to play WoWP up to the point I've reinstalled the C&C Red Alert (the original one) to play instead of WoWP. Once Jurassic world Evolution is available I guess I'll shelve WoWP for even more.






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