23 replies to this topic

[comtedumas]

As the title says, give me my AA protection (concealing livery) and my basic bombsite back.  At altitude AA is way overpowered and without the basic bombsite you and hit nothing from altitude.  

 

You put the bombsite behind a lock until you get specialist for your bombers?  That's just stupid.  

[Bubba_Zanetti]

comtedumas, on 21 June 2018 - 10:05 AM, said:

You put the bombsite behind a lock until you get specialist for your bombers?  That's just stupid.  

 

  Par for the course...

[The_Wild_Weasel]

Another reason not to return ....... 

 

Im sure they nerfed all the low level bombing too?

 

oh  well .... back to SOT.

 

W_W

[pyantoryng]

On the flipside, certain light fighters can stack 3 sources of AA protection (Reinforced skin, Reinforced frame, and Engine armor) to go well beyond Livery's 30%...

 

I wonder what WG is on when they think that protection from AA is an extraordinary privilege...

[Bubba_Zanetti]

pyantoryng, on 21 June 2018 - 10:46 AM, said:

I wonder what WG is on 

 

Plutonium Nyborg

 

[Captain_Underpants53]

My Spec bombers all have Ultimate Bombsight.  Does it help?  Not that I've noticed.

[vcharng]

Or rather, "give my actual ability back".

Bombers are capable of NOTHING at the moment.

 

For starters they are high-altitude planes, they shouldn't have a bomb spread or altitude speed penalty at all.

And most of them are way too ill-powered, for example, a Do217 now takes at least 2 to 5 minutes to capture a spot.

[xXx_BulletMagnet_xXx]

How can people keep playing this turd? 

[comtedumas]

xXx_BulletMagnet_xXx, on 21 June 2018 - 10:20 PM, said:

How can people keep playing this turd? 

 

why are you talking about “this turd” if you dislike it so much?

[Petey_ATX]

Bomb site is back with 2.0.5.xyz posted just recently...got it on my A-26B.  I've enhanced one level and it has +15.7% accuracy @ cost of -6% reload time.  Reload isn't so bad on the Invader but that will hurt a bit on the German bombers.  Still, at least now I can reliably destroy a target with 1 or 2 bomb drops, where before 2 successive drops would often not do the job.

Edited by Petey_ATX, 22 June 2018 - 06:12 AM.

[comtedumas]

Petey_ATX, on 22 June 2018 - 01:09 AM, said:

Bomb site is back with 2.0.5.xyz posted just recently...got it on my A-26B.  I've enhanced one level and it has +15.7% accuracy @ cost of -6% reload time.  Reload isn't so bad on the Invader but that will hurt a bit on the German bombers.  Still, at least now I can reliably destroy a target with 1 or 2 bomb drops, where before 2 successive drops would often not do the job.

 

A26 has always had it, its the German bombers (don't know about the Russian RB-17) that don't.  

[Prenzlau]

Bombers in a more realistic fashion should fly at high altitudes and drop their bombs accordingly. BUT the paradigm has changed for some of the bombers in favor of low level bombing. When flying solo I always fly the RB-17, the A-26B and the Do 217 M at tree top low altitudes. This way I don't need the bomb site and I can take advantage of decreasing the bomb reload time. I've dabbled with low flying the Ju 88a and Blenheim IV with mixed results. The Do 17 z is not a good choice for low level bombing. Basically all bombers flying at higher altitudes may suffer a bit (don't stay over the cap too long), although I have not noticed too much of a difference myself. 

But... but.... I don't, can't or won't learn to fly my bombers at low altitude. Hey no one forcing you too, but as this game changes, call it evolution, surviving in the ever changing environment will require adaption. Those who can adapt, will most likely flourish and enjoy the new paradigm. Those who cannot, well that is how some species die out. 

But... but... but.... I know what your going to say. Bombers should not be flying like ground attack planes! Sacrilege! Philosophically I agree. But if I want to help my team win and be more efficient, and do as much damage as possible, I need to find the best ways to fly my planes. This game is not about reality, or an extrapolation of reality anymore, it is anything goes! So you learn what works, even if it is not logical or philosophically ideal and you go with it. 

The AA can be brutal and eroding. The defense planes seem a bit more aggressive. Staying in or over a cap has it's own form of attrition. Bombers now need to get in and get out quickly. Low level flying helps with that. 

But don't you get shot down more? Yes, sometimes. But I would gladly trade getting shot down 2 or 3 times in one battle for the 10 to 25 (or more) ground kills and flipping 3-6 caps (or more) per battle. Maybe the end justifies the means. 

The only bomber I grinded was the RB-17 because I was going to fly that one a ton anyways. I took a look at the other ones and just paid the tokins. The specialist bomber grinds are tedious and seem to have a higher degree of difficulty than other planes requirements. 

 

Prenzlau

[MagusGerhardt]

Prenzlau, on 22 June 2018 - 01:03 PM, said:

Bombers in a more realistic fashion should fly at high altitudes and drop their bombs accordingly. BUT the paradigm has changed for some of the bombers in favor of low level bombing. When flying solo I always fly the RB-17, the A-26B and the Do 217 M at tree top low altitudes. This way I don't need the bomb site and I can take advantage of decreasing the bomb reload time.

 

That's a serious problem.  Of the three bombers you named, only one was intended for low level raiding, the American A-26, which is why it was designated A-26 and not B-26.

 

I've dabbled with low flying the Ju 88a and Blenheim IV with mixed results. The Do 17 z is not a good choice for low level bombing. Basically all bombers flying at higher altitudes may suffer a bit (don't stay over the cap too long), although I have not noticed too much of a difference myself. 

 

As a result right now the high flying bombers, especially the tech-line ones, are performing at very poor levels post 2.0.5 due to strengthening of AA, increased aggressive programming of AI heavies, and removal of damage-mitigating equipment as well as the removal of the bombsight prior to specialization.  Pardon me, but I think it is absolute bullcrap to have to "specialize" a bomber in order to effectively bomb with her.

 

But... but.... I don't, can't or won't learn to fly my bombers at low altitude. Hey no one forcing you too, but as this game changes, call it evolution, surviving in the ever changing environment will require adaption. Those who can adapt, will most likely flourish and enjoy the new paradigm. Those who cannot, well that is how some species die out. 

 

Cliche' and Tropes do not make for a strong argument.  Particularly when it seems to negatively affect more players than it assists.  Yes, you can persist and change to go along with whatever inconsistency that gets tossed into this game.  It will do you little good if it drives away most of your fellow players and presents an insurmountable wall to any new recruits.  Without change I fear that it will get rather lonely in-game in short order.

 

But... but... but.... I know what your going to say. Bombers should not be flying like ground attack planes! Sacrilege! Philosophically I agree. But if I want to help my team win and be more efficient, and do as much damage as possible, I need to find the best ways to fly my planes. This game is not about reality, or an extrapolation of reality anymore, it is anything goes! So you learn what works, even if it is not logical or philosophically ideal and you go with it. 

 

Exactly.  Which is why I have adapted to fly only my low tier premium aircraft.  After the immediate amendment to this deeply flawed patch those are at least playable before specialist status, and the easy wins and consistent salvage income will keep me playing as I upgrade and tweak all of my premiums equipment to Ultimate status before erasing their negatives.  I will also provide the public service of showing our rookies what they have to look forward to, both in how it is possible to do the impossible in their planes, and that there are players here who will take joy in stomping all over them in the name of winning.

 

The AA can be brutal and eroding. The defense planes seem a bit more aggressive. Staying in or over a cap has it's own form of attrition. Bombers now need to get in and get out quickly. Low level flying helps with that. 

 

Low level flying only "helps" with that because the low level AA guns have very bad lines of sight that can be exploited by barnstorming.  You should be getting ripped to shreds far more quickly than the high fliers, but you aren't...because reasons.

 

But don't you get shot down more? Yes, sometimes. But I would gladly trade getting shot down 2 or 3 times in one battle for the 10 to 25 (or more) ground kills and flipping 3-6 caps (or more) per battle. Maybe the end justifies the means. 

The only bomber I grinded was the RB-17 because I was going to fly that one a ton anyways. I took a look at the other ones and just paid the tokins. The specialist bomber grinds are tedious and seem to have a higher degree of difficulty than other planes requirements. 

 

I certainly hope that you are in the extreme minority when it comes to unlocking these planes with tokens, because it will just reinforce the poor decision making that lead to this change in the first place.  Thankfully public feedback so far indicates that this is true.

 

Prenzlau

 

None of this meant as an attack.  I'm just painfully blunt and at times my sarcasm can not be dialed back.

[Prenzlau]

MagusGerhardt, on 22 June 2018 - 02:35 PM, said:

 

None of this meant as an attack.  I'm just painfully blunt and at times my sarcasm can not be dialed back.

 

Well.... when I first saw that you interjected surgically with my post I thought you might be another "big meanie", from what I am used to, but your a man who doesn't waste his words and seems to only want to teach and help others. Thanks for your feedback and insights.

 

Prenzlau

Edited by Prenzlau, 22 June 2018 - 08:46 PM.

[MagusGerhardt]

Prenzlau, on 22 June 2018 - 01:45 PM, said:

 

Well.... when I first saw that you interjected surgically with my post I thought you might be another "big meanie", from what I am used to, but your a man who doesn't waste his words and seems to only want to teach and help others. Thanks for your feedback and insights.

 

Prenzlau

 

No, I just address points as they are made so that my responses and ideas are more easily plugged in where applicable, instead of offering up a wall of text in response and leaving it to the respondent and other readers to suss it out for themselves.  

[Petey_ATX]

On the low-level front, my A-26B is getting -clobbered- by human players...1200HP down to dead in ~4 seconds.  As if the more aggressive ADA weren't enough...ugh.  I died 5 times in 1 game; never had that happen prior to 2.0.5.  Typical was 1-2, occasionally 3 and rarely 4.   Now 3-4 is pretty common.  13 hours on it and I'm 42% of the way to specialist, yay.

[Reitousair]

Bombers, GA, and MRF's have seen a bit of a hit with the lack of something like concealing livery. Now with AA resistance being only bonus characteristics it's possible that you don't want them at all in favor of other, stronger characteristics.

 

On the other hand LF's and HF's have been given a bit of a buff in this respect since now the other three classes suffer from gunner fire and AA just the same, and it's possible for LF's, HF's, and MRF's (and oddities like the IL-10M) to actually gain AA resistance beyond what a livery could do pre-2.0.5. At the same time though, AA resistance takes the place of some mighty valuable characteristics and unless you're going for a fully dedicated "I hate AA" build a lot of the other characteristics you miss by getting AA resistance can provide a serious advantage.

 

Also the heavy nerf to bomb sights unless you get THE BEST rolls for accuracy is quite dumb, it seems like this update has been trying to nerf low-altitude bombing by ramping up ADA and AA (yet again, rest in peace GA players) yet they make high-altitude AA even more powerful when it was already terrifying without a livery, remove said livery so now there's no easy way to nerf it, and make bomb sights relatively pointless. So it's still just go fly bombers at low-altitude, sure you may die more now but at least you don't need to waste your time with a bomb sight that will barely do anything until it's at advanced-ultimate grade. Oh and don't forget that you can't even get a bomb sight until you unlock specialist, very sensible decision it seems, not crippling to bombers at all.

[pyantoryng]

Reitousair, on 23 June 2018 - 04:58 PM, said:

Bombers, GA, and MRF's have seen a bit of a hit with the lack of something like concealing livery. Now with AA resistance being only bonus characteristics it's possible that you don't want them at all in favor of other, stronger characteristics.

 

On the other hand LF's and HF's have been given a bit of a buff in this respect since now the other three classes suffer from gunner fire and AA just the same, and it's possible for LF's, HF's, and MRF's (and oddities like the IL-10M) to actually gain AA resistance beyond what a livery could do pre-2.0.5. At the same time though, AA resistance takes the place of some mighty valuable characteristics and unless you're going for a fully dedicated "I hate AA" build a lot of the other characteristics you miss by getting AA resistance can provide a serious advantage.

 

Also the heavy nerf to bomb sights unless you get THE BEST rolls for accuracy is quite dumb, it seems like this update has been trying to nerf low-altitude bombing by ramping up ADA and AA (yet again, rest in peace GA players) yet they make high-altitude AA even more powerful when it was already terrifying without a livery, remove said livery so now there's no easy way to nerf it, and make bomb sights relatively pointless. So it's still just go fly bombers at low-altitude, sure you may die more now but at least you don't need to waste your time with a bomb sight that will barely do anything until it's at advanced-ultimate grade. Oh and don't forget that you can't even get a bomb sight until you unlock specialist, very sensible decision it seems, not crippling to bombers at all.

 

My naked Spitfire can take AA damage better than my GAA just because I can keep juking...

[elasar]

Ive noticed in my GA if im in a lvl 9 game and im in a lvl 8 the AA and air defence just tear you a new one

Last game AA killed me 4 times Not Fun LOL

[StoptheViolins]

elasar, on 23 June 2018 - 01:21 PM, said:

Ive noticed in my GA if im in a lvl 9 game and im in a lvl 8 the AA and air defence just tear you a new one

Last game AA killed me 4 times Not Fun LOL

 

You need to buy more special crates and get some purples so you are l33t.