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Time to cut the dailies the other way

dailies balance new players specialist grind mount equipment too complex persha sucks persha really really sucks

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shirime #1 Posted 12 June 2018 - 04:49 AM

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Ok, so, spent the last hour online tonight finally working on grinding out those tier I-IV dailies that I haven't been able to touch all weekend. Came to a conclusion, not that it's original, even with me (everyone I know, including myself, groans about having to play I-IV, and some of us (including me) even V-VII to complete "dailies"); time to get experienced players out of the I-IV missions.

 

I have a couple of the easy but grindy dailies at the moment, and it is just not a good feeling to be getting 2, 3, 4, 5 times the PP of anyone else in a match. Not intending to humble brag; I've got over 3,600 GP in 2.0, and I'm fully aware that I'm not a top tier player, but I'm guessing most folks in the games I was playing, well, aren't either and don't have the experience that makes up for it. I'm guessing a lot of the folks who regularly "slum" (joking, play at the tier that's fun, all good) at low/mid tier are burnt from weekend event. Regardless, seemed a pretty clear test; I hate the sneaking suspicion that I might be driving new players away because I need to play I-IV if I want more goodies than the medal tokens are giving (feel free to tell me I'm being greedy).  

 

How about having the "dailies" locked to max tier you have? If you only have tier I-IV in hanger, you get three one token missions that can only be completed at tier I-IV. Same V-VII, VII-X. 

 

Or, to discourage the folks with 1,000 games at tier II, how about brackets based on GP, whatever works; three Tier I-IV missions for people with less than 500 GP, three tier V-VII for folks with less than 1,000, and beyond that, no "dailies" tokens unless you're playing 8-10. 

 

Might help with paucity of real humans 8-10 to boot. 



SpiritFoxMY #2 Posted 12 June 2018 - 05:02 AM

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I have just over 500 GP but I honestly have no business clubbing down at tier 2 other than to test for connectivity issues. I think locking the daily brackets to your W/R or K/D ratio would make the most sense but that's just me. Gamers will always find ways to game the system

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Reitousair #3 Posted 12 June 2018 - 08:44 AM

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Hmm, I'm not entirely sure about the system proposed, if anything I'd recommend making dailies tier 5+ and increasing the amount you need to earn by 50%.

 

This way in tier 5+ planes you have longer dailies, but they're no longer having you play low-tiers to farm tokens. This might prove something of a population boon to the mid-tiers at least though unfortunately I'm not too sure if high-tiers would see any population increase from such a method. Either way it would be nice if you could just fly anything beyond a certain tier to work on your dailies, not go through 3 sets of tiers which has stopped me from ever completing my daily missions.


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pyantoryng #4 Posted 12 June 2018 - 10:12 AM

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The missions really should be adjusted according to tier range. The slowness of gaining 25k EXP (on win or not) even in tier 4 is what keep players in that tier range for far longer than necessary.

 

...or just uniformly reduce mission requirements and reduce token rewards accordingly, make those missions daily and not weekly or even monthly.



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CorvusCorvax #5 Posted 12 June 2018 - 01:00 PM

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I find I don't pay attention to tokens much any more.  At one time, I bought a bunch of hangar slots with the tokens I had, thinking I'd keep every plane I'd ever buy.  Then I realized I never want to fly some of these planes ever again, and now I have extra hangar slots, a bunch of tokens, and no place to spend them.

 

I fly low tier because low tier can be fun to fly due to the limitations of the aircraft in those tiers - practicing BCM while you can pay attention to everything that's happening is a benefit (everything happens very slowly at T2).  The seal clubbing part is unfortunate, and I have taken up the habit of some folks here of not targeting the human players unless they target me first.  Unless I recognize the name from T8, then game on.

 

The point of this is that for me, the missions don't matter any more, and aren't interesting.  If they gave a pile of gold or free experience, I might care, but my pile of tokens doesn't need to grow any.


Edited by CorvusCorvax, 12 June 2018 - 01:01 PM.


trikke #6 Posted 12 June 2018 - 01:23 PM

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i think that everyone is in agreement about removing low tier missions, which in itself is just as dramatic as the international news cycle

 

and even perhaps more substantial than the 'theater' we've just witnessed 

 

anyway...   low tier missions flown by pro pilots result in killing low time new pilots, for no good reason 

 

low time new pilots should only have to fly against other new pilots...  it's just common sense, and we all agree

 

edit:   Sonic, could we get this pushed up the decision ladder, please?       surely this has already been discussed?


Edited by trikke, 12 June 2018 - 01:24 PM.

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CorvusCorvax #7 Posted 12 June 2018 - 02:19 PM

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View Posttrikke, on 12 June 2018 - 01:23 PM, said:

i think that everyone is in agreement about removing low tier missions, which in itself is just as dramatic as the international news cycle

 

and even perhaps more substantial than the 'theater' we've just witnessed 

 

anyway...   low tier missions flown by pro pilots result in killing low time new pilots, for no good reason 

 

low time new pilots should only have to fly against other new pilots...  it's just common sense, and we all agree

 

edit:   Sonic, could we get this pushed up the decision ladder, please?       surely this has already been discussed?

 

I actually like the idea of if your top tier is 9, then you fly missions in 8/9/10 for top-level mission, 5/6/7 for middle-level, and stop.  But it's more complicated to code player-specific missions than it is to code a global set of missions, so this idea should probably fall down on the stack behind hangar chat lock-up and random CTD bug fixes.

trikke #8 Posted 13 June 2018 - 01:23 PM

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but, but...   we all agree that new player retention is the number one issue facing wowp, don't we?

 

so many other issues would melt away, like an ice cream cone on an August sidewalk, if only player numbers were meeting expectations 

 

coders and management would certainly make more money, which would entice better coders and better managers to join Persha

 

i believe that incentivizing pro pilots to kill new players for insignificant rewards may be the most significant reason why new folks leave so quickly

 

count the number of new posts on the Newcomers forum, look back at the folks who asked questions but then never went higher than 100-200 battles 

 

asking questions shows interest, and we answered 99% of those questions with civility...  compare that to 99% of other gaming forums       they should still be around here!

 

it's hard to learn to fly, in-game and in RL, and couple that with an unusual capture-the-air-flag gameplay... 

 

then sprinkle in some invincible sky raiders targeting only the new human players, who can't even tell yet who's a bot and who's not

 

too hard to code at least some form of new player sandbox?   then get ready to code this


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CorvusCorvax #9 Posted 13 June 2018 - 04:09 PM

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View Posttrikke, on 13 June 2018 - 01:23 PM, said:

but, but...   we all agree that new player retention is the number one issue facing wowp, don't we?

 

so many other issues would melt away, like an ice cream cone on an August sidewalk, if only player numbers were meeting expectations 

 

 

I do think there are folks here who think player retention is the most important factor.  Does WG agree?  Who knows?  And what, exactly, are the player number expectations?  I have no idea what WG wants here.  I suppose the idea is "more", but what, exactly are the expectations?  Filled servers 24/7/365?  I know that for some posters here, there "aren't enough".  But we have zero clue what is happening in the Russian minds of WG.  



Anubis_TD #10 Posted 13 June 2018 - 10:16 PM

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Now before i go on, I want to say that I like most of tomorrows patch

 

However, is this patch what the game needs. 

Lets quickly list the major issues that need addressing in this game and see if the patch fixes any

 

1) bugs, crashes, and optimization: they say very little on this account in the notes, god willing some will be addressed. 

All this new stuff added to a game that is already full of issues makes me very wary on the outcome and I have small hope it will be a more stable game after this patch.

 

2) Balance: High tier GA's, Dbl GA flights, RB17, Pancake, etc. no adjustments to these known issues and new content will make many of them worse; plus harder to tell what to adjust to fix it

(since more variables are added)

 

3) Population: this new stuff seems more geared to keep long time players playing not draw new blood and does nothing to protect any new player from being clubbed.

Like Level 1 dailies this will force more top players down in the intro levels to pummel new people. People who can't tell bots from people anyways.

 

This patch has great features and stuff but is what is needed 1 0r 2 solid patches from now.


Edited by Anubis_TD, 13 June 2018 - 10:17 PM.


MississippiFats #11 Posted 14 June 2018 - 12:31 AM

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yes, it's like a small club of pilots that show up in 1v1+22 bots upper tier matches. sad.  many noobs discover this is a bot game, and move on.  if you don't fix your matchmaker, at least give me more than 10 to 20 FPS.  also: how about NO BOTS just humans murdering each other.  why all these screwed up bots?   Moshe.

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SpiritFoxMY #12 Posted 14 June 2018 - 12:35 AM

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View PostMississippiFats, on 14 June 2018 - 08:31 AM, said:

yes, it's like a small club of pilots that show up in 1v1+22 bots upper tier matches. sad.  many noobs discover this is a bot game, and move on.  if you don't fix your matchmaker, at least give me more than 10 to 20 FPS.  also: how about NO BOTS just humans murdering each other.  why all these screwed up bots?   Moshe.

 

no bots would equal 10 - 20 minute wait times. As is tier 9 games can have me sitting in queu for up to 5 minutes

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So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


MississippiFats #13 Posted 14 June 2018 - 12:40 AM

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I would think that if the criteria was minimum 2 human pilots, the wait time would the same as it is now, while the matchmaker waits for at least two humans in the mess.  get rid of the bots.  let us hunt each other without a crowd of bots wrecking the game for us.

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LMG #14 Posted 14 June 2018 - 02:16 AM

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View PostMississippiFats, on 13 June 2018 - 07:40 PM, said:

I would think that if the criteria was minimum 2 human pilots, the wait time would the same as it is now, while the matchmaker waits for at least two humans in the mess.  get rid of the bots.  let us hunt each other without a crowd of bots wrecking the game for us.

 

No bots would pretty much throw balance out the window considering the game was built around the idea of 12v12, with at least one of each fighter type and at least one ground pounder for both teams. Imagine a lone A7M having to chase an RB-17 around, or a stock P-51H on a map with Mining Facilities. It's already troublesome with bots trying their worst best to shoot down aircraft and capture sectors, let alone having no assistance whatsoever.


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mnbv_fockewulfe #15 Posted 14 June 2018 - 02:35 AM

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View PostLMG, on 14 June 2018 - 02:16 AM, said:

 

No bots would pretty much throw balance out the window considering the game was built around the idea of 12v12, with at least one of each fighter type and at least one ground pounder for both teams. Imagine a lone A7M having to chase an RB-17 around, or a stock P-51H on a map with Mining Facilities. It's already troublesome with bots trying their worst best to shoot down aircraft and capture sectors, let alone having no assistance whatsoever.

 

Conquest was designed for 12v12 all HUMAN gameplay, as was standard deathmatch designed for 15v15 all human gameplay.

The flaws in game design are only amplified by the lack of humans. 


Be sure to check your logic privileges before posting on the forum.

 

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xPALEHORSEx #16 Posted 14 June 2018 - 03:09 AM

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The only thing that will fix this game is for the developers to right click and hit "send to trash".

El_Mulo #17 Posted 14 June 2018 - 03:29 AM

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I think    NO

I would put as priority to solve all the bugs-MM unfair matches - Impossible missions- FPS problems - Maps not fittting for their tier- unfair bots distribution- and so on prior to go forward in a more complex mode.

 


What we say to death?

jack_wdw #18 Posted 14 June 2018 - 07:13 AM

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In general I prefer 1v1 over 2v2, because most of the time 2v2 contains a flight at the other side.

 

View PostMississippiFats, on 14 June 2018 - 12:40 AM, said:

I would think that if the criteria was minimum 2 human pilots, the wait time would the same as it is now, while the matchmaker waits for at least two humans in the mess.  get rid of the bots.  let us hunt each other without a crowd of bots wrecking the game for us.

 



Veraxu #19 Posted 14 June 2018 - 12:55 PM

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This new update has been pure trash. Load times are even worse as well as crashes. Also now you can get special equipment slots just for playing longer. Yea thats not going to make anymore imbalances or split the community even more. Then so much equipment has been taken away like the tank sealer that now japs and russians are going to be set on fire more than the jews were. I feel like they are slowly trying to implement small changes to get it closer to a world of tanks model with [edited]consumables and splits on things that they can then start raking in the greed somehow. All wargaming has done in all their games across the board have been stupid and greedy ideas. They are failing as a company so hard.

 



pyantoryng #20 Posted 14 June 2018 - 01:20 PM

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That stipulation of "Personal Points from destroying enemy Aircrafts" strikes again as it still literally counts the 200 points from each enemy aircraft destroyed and nothing else. Not to mention that certain multiroles are atrocious against ground targets, which the specialist build wants you to do in ALL multirole fighters. Many Multirole fighters are very much screwed in this regard, expect to see some go derp mode on bombing and strafing runs for some time yet...

 

Good thing tokens exist...but to grind them to a usable amount is no easy task without constant playing day in and day out... The missions themselves are a whole another of grind - Post-Elite grind if you will - at least they are very achieveable given time, no impossible tasks such as survival AND win needed.

 

...can this be considered an endgame of sorts? You do need that specialist config to use certain things AT ALL, like turret ammo for GAA (no more super rear gun for you though, the turret slot won't accept equipments). Low tier is very limited in configurations, only accepting the sight slot at regular and airframe improvement only in specialist...

 

I should note that the consumables are segregated by slots now, no more mix and matching...hell, low tier planes can only take first aid kit/extinguisher/verifications in normal config...



WoWP makes a great jousting game...especially with the 262 and people busy in furballs...
I am deaf, silent, and fly with unrealistic controls. Do not count on me to carry - my back's already broken from overweight.




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