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Tweak Favoring Newcomers???


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Hanzle #1 Posted 11 June 2018 - 09:37 PM

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We've noticed top of the Battle Results table is showing a lot of players with less then 500 games doing incredible.

 

For example, this battle.  Our humans did 35,250 Personal Points while they did 21,875.  Our side lost 681:800.

 

This battle was tier 4 and 5 (3 tier 5 planes)

 

Here's the joke, our 4 humans have a combined experience of 4,015 battles, while theirs combine to 1,087.  This includes the top 2 performers on their side having combined experience of 103 battles.

 

Anyone else see this craziness.  They're not penalizing people who play the game a lot are they?????  That's scary :(

 

Please, if your gonna fly by opinion, and not contribute to the post.... do it elsewhere.  Screenshots available for those who question any of the facts above.

 

Anyone else notice this?

 

 


Edited by Hanzle, 11 June 2018 - 09:38 PM.


CorvusCorvax #2 Posted 11 June 2018 - 09:40 PM

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This has been commented before.  The bot type and skill level favors players with less skill, in order to "even up" the odds.  I have noticed that sometimes flighted players with less experience will be matched up against humans who are not flighted, but have more skill.

 

I suspect it is for player retention purposes.



Hanzle #3 Posted 11 June 2018 - 09:44 PM

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Maybe for player acquisition they are rigging it to give success to new players.  For player retention, I can't see how the more you play, the more you get penalized works.

 

Corvus where are the other posts?  Thanks.

 

Also, for the battle mentioned, there were no flights/teams.

 

Further, this doesn't really involve bots.  The losing bots did roughly 21k (no chevrons) vs 23k (no chevrons).  Human Chevrons were even at 6 a side.

 

We've all experienced CRAZY base flips.  This could go along way to explaining this..... sad :(


Edited by Hanzle, 11 June 2018 - 10:11 PM.


Ace_BOTlistic_Cosmo #4 Posted 11 June 2018 - 09:46 PM

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View PostHanzle, on 11 June 2018 - 04:37 PM, said:

We've noticed top of the Battle Results table is showing a lot of players with less then 500 games doing incredible.

 

For example, this battle.  Our humans did 35,250 Personal Points while they did 21,875.  Our side lost 681:800.

 

This battle was tier 4 and 5 (3 tier 5 planes)

 

Here's the joke, our 4 humans have a combined experience of 4,015 battles, while theirs combine to 1,087.  This includes the top 2 performers on their side having combined experience of 103 battles.

 

Anyone else see this craziness.  They're not penalizing people who play the game a lot are they?????  That's scary :(

 

Please, if your gonna fly by opinion, and not contribute to the post.... do it elsewhere.  Screenshots available for those who question any of the facts above.

 

Anyone else notice this?

 

 

 

 

I believe they are going for a smooth and homogeneous vanilla type pudding game...

but easy on the vanilla,

don't want too much of anything exciting


if the pilot's good, see, I mean, if he's really..sharp, he can barrel that baby in so low [he spreads his arms like wings and laughs],

you oughtta see it sometime, it's a sight. A big plane like a '52. VRROOM! There's jet exhaust, fryin' chickens in the barnyard.


mnbv_fockewulfe #5 Posted 11 June 2018 - 09:53 PM

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If the game didn't rely so much on team work aka what your bots are doing...

Be sure to check your logic privileges before posting on the forum.

 

mnbv_fockewulfe.png


 


Bubba_Zanetti #6 Posted 11 June 2018 - 09:55 PM

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View PostAce_BOTlistic_Cosmo, on 11 June 2018 - 04:46 PM, said:

 

 

I believe they are going for a smooth and homogeneous vanilla type pudding game...

but easy on the vanilla,

don't want too much of anything exciting

 

And be careful when chewing.  The bits of tinfoil, if you have fillings in your molars,  will give you a jolt!

forum.worldofwarplanes.com/index.php?/topic/42410-wg-incompetence/           ^- Over two years awaiting moderation on the WOWP Blog.

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They've been around a good while and seen a lot of flak so they surely must know what they're doing by now.” - Catch21  All wargaming has done in all their games across the board have been stupid and greedy ideas. They are failing as a company so hard. - Veraxu  Maybe Persha should avoid patches with the number 5 in them... - mnbv-fockewulfe  You put the bombsite behind a lock until you get specialist for your bombers? That's just stupid. - comtedumas


CorvusCorvax #7 Posted 11 June 2018 - 11:20 PM

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View PostHanzle, on 11 June 2018 - 09:44 PM, said:

Maybe for player acquisition they are rigging it to give success to new players.  For player retention, I can't see how the more you play, the more you get penalized works.

 

Corvus where are the other posts?  Thanks.

 

 

The other posts are in this forum. 

 

I meant player retention past the first few battles.  Remember way back in 1.4?  Get in the game with your tier 1 or 2 plane, fly to the middle where the furball happens, boom, shot down by the first plane you see?  That can be kind of frustrating.  For someone with a short attention span, they download the game, make a few flights, then say "screw it, this game sucks" and uninstall it.  I've always looked at the adversity as a reason to get better, or to expand my abilities with different plane types. 

 

To your point, I had a game the other day in which I scored 22500 points in my Pancake.

 

And lost.

 

Then the next game I played, I scored 9900 points, and won.  I played 10 games last week where I flew my Do-335 and lost, being the top scorer on my team.  Then the very next game, doing the very same thing, I won - getting almost the same score I got the previous game.  It's a matter of where and how you score.  And if your bots are any good at where and how THEY score.



LMG #8 Posted 11 June 2018 - 11:23 PM

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I wouldn't call Personal Points the best way to determine which team should have won. There are many variables that influence the outcome of a match, and that can also impact the Personal Point gain of both teams. Getting superiority early on as a GAA helps a lot achieve victory, but also leaves the ground pounders with no more ground to pound, which leads to lower scores than normal.

 

I've also noticed that the map-wide flips are usually the result of a string of events, like a GAA that secures sectors near the enemy's spawn, then a bunch of bots dying in the center. Once they respawn, a few bots go to flip the nearby sectors and another group moves towards the center again. That leads to the bots flipping the sectors near their spawn, and if the battle at the central sector goes south for the other team they get it as well, turning the whole situation from a potential Supremacy to 2-to-3 in an instant. And that's not taking into account any Military Base or Command Centers attacking other sectors, which also factor in heavilly to those "suddenly the map is red" moments :amazed:


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SpiritFoxMY #9 Posted 12 June 2018 - 12:30 AM

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trikke and I have pulled off a low PP win at 6k/7k respectively against a flight with 10k/13k. They just camped the middle and farmed bots while the two of us (plus the other human on the team) flipped the surrounding caps. We came from behind to win 16 - 0 on the strength of owning all but one of the cap points. 

 

Kinda what we were trying to do that other match with spitfires camping the mid, only we succeeded for whatever reason (better bots, swapping tactics sooner, smaller map)


***

But a truce to this mournful story

For death is a distant friend

So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


Hanzle #10 Posted 12 June 2018 - 12:36 AM

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Post has gone wayward.

 

The question remains, for some reason or another are new players winning more then more seasoned players?

 

Look at the results table and check out the amount of battles of the top performers.....



SpiritFoxMY #11 Posted 12 June 2018 - 12:38 AM

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Of course sometimes you get games where the bots on your team couldn't pour pee out of a boot with instructions written under the heel. Those games are the reason you hate CCs and MBs

***

But a truce to this mournful story

For death is a distant friend

So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


LMG #12 Posted 12 June 2018 - 12:48 AM

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View PostHanzle, on 11 June 2018 - 07:36 PM, said:

Post has gone wayward.

 

The question remains, for some reason or another are new players winning more then more seasoned players?

 

Look at the results table and check out the amount of battles of the top performers.....

 

Do you mean as in win rate based off number of battles? Because it's easier to have a high win rate with a low amount of battles (hell, if you win your first game ever that's a 100% win rate right there). Overall, I haven't really noticed a specific fluke in how bots play that makes the team with the most new players win. What I have noticed is low-tier bots being horribly useless in almost every regard, making the matches be more akin to "who's bots die the least" :sceptic:


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mnbv_fockewulfe #13 Posted 12 June 2018 - 02:26 AM

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Hmm...the tinfoil hat is strong with this one.

One sample isn't enough to go off of, in one sample the odds are what you experienced will happen at least once.

If you can provide repeatable and predictable instances of this happening I'll believe you.


Be sure to check your logic privileges before posting on the forum.

 

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Reitousair #14 Posted 12 June 2018 - 08:40 AM

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I haven't noticed bots being balanced in favor of new players. It seems to be entirely random so sometimes you get good pilots with incredible bots that make matches last barely 4 minutes if even that (I've seen a match last 2:54), other times you get bad players with such amazing bots that they could effectively afk and STILL win.

 

There's so many variables that go into the match you mention it's hard to pin that as evidence of bots being in the favor of new players, if anything you'd need to go into the details of every single player over the course of the entire match, aka if only we had a replay you could post. People have reported it happening multiple times but I've also seen what I mentioned above, good players get good bots and absolutely steamroll less-experienced pilots with their frankly horrendous bots.

 

So, from the results I wrote in the records I have, me and a random player had over 5000 combined battles, while the enemy team had a combined 1500 or so battles, that match was tier 8.

I managed to score 12.2k, my teammate scored 8.9k, the enemy players scored 4.8k and 2.2k respectively.

Final score: 800:381

Our bots on average scored ~2k more PP than the enemy teams bots, match time: 5:39

I could say with that example alone that new players stand no chance because good players get the better bots. But, again, that's only one example.

 

And if you're talking about results as in the Hall of Fame, then the lower the amount of battles, the better a persons stats can look, but the opposite is also possible, some people are extremely good but have terrible stats early on because they're both learning and get absolutely terrible luck. If anything I'd say wait for a person to make it onto the HoF before you start using stats to make an argument about how people with certain numbers of battles are doing extraordinarily well.

 

 


I do fly Chinese aircraft a fair amount so... *ahem*

CHINA NUMBAH WAN

 


Prenzlau #15 Posted 12 June 2018 - 02:19 PM

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http://blog.worldofwarplanes.com/mechanics/matchmaker-basics-tiers-classes-and-bots/

 

If this is the matchmaker basics, then where is the matchmaker "advanced" guide?

 

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Hanzle #16 Posted 13 June 2018 - 12:56 AM

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I don't believe the issue is bots.

 

I do believe bases flip faster, and possibly rookies guns are stronger.  

 

For example, ever be the only one over a base, NO BOMBERS, and it flips?

 

For example, ever get one shot by a Goldfinch and look up the player to find that he has less then 10 battles?

 

These are other anecdotal occasions that are real curious.

 

I am going to look at some data to see if a change has been made.

 

 



LMG #17 Posted 13 June 2018 - 01:07 AM

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View PostHanzle, on 12 June 2018 - 07:56 PM, said:

For example, ever be the only one over a base, NO BOMBERS, and it flips?

 

I really wish someone would catch this on video. It's been a myth for so long that I want to see if it's real or if I can find the cause :sceptic:


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CorvusCorvax #18 Posted 13 June 2018 - 01:17 AM

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View PostLMG, on 13 June 2018 - 01:07 AM, said:

 

I really wish someone would catch this on video. It's been a myth for so long that I want to see if it's real or if I can find the cause :sceptic:

 

I have also seen this - been to a garrison, no red planes in sight.  Start working on shooting down ADA, and boom, garrison is red.  Now, where in the heck did one of my guys get shot down, or a red team plane come and shoot ADA down or blow stuff up?  GAA with camouflage and concealing livery???

jack_wdw #19 Posted 13 June 2018 - 10:20 AM

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I can concur,

Logged in a for a couple of games the past days.
it's not that i'm a great pilot, defo not in this 2.0 (way too many control handicaps in comparison with Mouse + KB players)
But somehow the games i scored more than 6000 points never were enough to get a win.
The games where i scored really low (less than 4000pts) mostly resulted in wins.

One strange defeat was when we got all caps, we were a little behind in terms of points, squall line had passed, all the humans at the red side got shot down, no enemy GAA's or bombers remaining, only two more bots flying (and in my crosshair at that time). Suddenly a cap got flipped to red, while no plane was over there, and immediately we got defeat (while at that time my blue team had air superiority and only needed to shoot down two planes that were in my vicinity)

Almost all games were 1v1 or 2v2
I've only played tier III-VI games with only premium aircraft.

Edited by jack_wdw, 13 June 2018 - 10:25 AM.


xPALEHORSEx #20 Posted 14 June 2018 - 03:16 AM

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View PostHanzle, on 11 June 2018 - 03:37 PM, said:

We've noticed top of the Battle Results table is showing a lot of players with less then 500 games doing incredible.

 

For example, this battle.  Our humans did 35,250 Personal Points while they did 21,875.  Our side lost 681:800.

 

This battle was tier 4 and 5 (3 tier 5 planes)

 

Here's the joke, our 4 humans have a combined experience of 4,015 battles, while theirs combine to 1,087.  This includes the top 2 performers on their side having combined experience of 103 battles.

 

Anyone else see this craziness.  They're not penalizing people who play the game a lot are they?????  That's scary :(

 

Please, if your gonna fly by opinion, and not contribute to the post.... do it elsewhere.  Screenshots available for those who question any of the facts above.

 

Anyone else notice this?

 

 

 

View PostCorvusCorvax, on 11 June 2018 - 03:40 PM, said:

This has been commented before.  The bot type and skill level favors players with less skill, in order to "even up" the odds.  I have noticed that sometimes flighted players with less experience will be matched up against humans who are not flighted, but have more skill.

 

I suspect it is for player retention purposes.

 

I have suggested this and similar things before and have been practically ran out of the forum.

 

I think it is tied to player tenure and length of time in planes as well.






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