Jump to content


uneven bots!!


  • Please log in to reply
21 replies to this topic

hamhockjones #1 Posted 07 June 2018 - 02:14 PM

    Senior Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 8924 battles
  • 137
  • Member since:
    12-04-2013
I realize by now that one teams bots, especially the game where there is only a couple of humans playing, that the team with better playing humans will have dumb and noobie like bots that are clueless. Please even up the bots. Each team the bots should have the same abilities, fight the same and not determine the games outcome.I know im probably peeing against the wind, but this request is fair for everyone. Also, I have been playing a long time and I can tell when my guns have been turned down, especially my 410. The guns sound the same but they do not cause the same damage they used to..When I score 16000 and I am the only human on my team, and yet the human on other team scores 4000, and my team gets completely dominated, it is obvious that the bots have been mismatched . Asking the one human to make up for 5 or 6 terrible bots is impossible. The new players can win , win, win even though they are terrible.. Earning their wings has been tossed to the wayside, no longer matters.  Sad state of affairs.. ham

SlappedbyRommel #2 Posted 07 June 2018 - 04:19 PM

    Senior Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 1839 battles
  • 363
  • [JG52] JG52
  • Member since:
    01-13-2017
Yup totally agree had this happen even at Tier 3 only had time for 1 game and yes I noticed the odd behavior of my guns too even when they were not overheated maybe lag but I doubt it. WG fix the bot issue I had taken 2 caps and was leading when puff bots crapped the bed and lost I had a high score while the human on the other side had 2K? I hate losses like that.........please fix bots.

Prenzlau #3 Posted 07 June 2018 - 04:55 PM

    Senior Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 5670 battles
  • 479
  • [OWSS] OWSS
  • Member since:
    12-14-2015

To be fair about it, these posts about the bots keep cropping up and I feel like we don't have all the information to really know how and why the bots behave as they do. If we had mostly humans on each team in a battle and one side dominated the other, what would we be saying about the human players who did not perform well? I think it is human nature to look for reasons, excuses and scapegoats when we lose battles and to ignore poor game play by humans and bots when our side wins. 

As any competitive game in life, sometimes you win when you should have lost and sometimes you lose when you should have won or we rationalize it that way. I know every time I play there will be games that are a complete struggle and turn into loses, even though my performance was great and also games were I did not do so well but I was on a great team and got a win. That is just the way the game rolls. 

If we don't blame the bots, we will start blaming the other humans or both but like other events that happen, it was just meant to be. Funny how we expect this game to be fair and courteous when not much in real life is that way. 

At times I get as frustrated as anyone at losing or how I lost and it is ok to get upset. I also know that I am coming back for more, and that there will be days/nights of utter frustration. To some my "bad night" might be a good night for others, so it is all relative. 

Mismatches occur, and I guess there are only two choices, stop playing the game or get right back into battle and keep playing. No matter what is done to the bots, players won't be happy. 

 

Prenzlau


The Zigfreid & Prenzlau Bombing Company

"We're not just delivering the mail..."

 

 

 


LMG #4 Posted 07 June 2018 - 05:50 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Member
  • 2026 battles
  • 1,562
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012

View PostPrenzlau, on 07 June 2018 - 11:55 AM, said:

To be fair about it, these posts about the bots keep cropping up and I feel like we don't have all the information to really know how and why the bots behave as they do. If we had mostly humans on each team in a battle and one side dominated the other, what would we be saying about the human players who did not perform well? I think it is human nature to look for reasons, excuses and scapegoats when we lose battles and to ignore poor game play by humans and bots when our side wins. 

As any competitive game in life, sometimes you win when you should have lost and sometimes you lose when you should have won or we rationalize it that way. I know every time I play there will be games that are a complete struggle and turn into loses, even though my performance was great and also games were I did not do so well but I was on a great team and got a win. That is just the way the game rolls. 

If we don't blame the bots, we will start blaming the other humans or both but like other events that happen, it was just meant to be. Funny how we expect this game to be fair and courteous when not much in real life is that way. 

At times I get as frustrated as anyone at losing or how I lost and it is ok to get upset. I also know that I am coming back for more, and that there will be days/nights of utter frustration. To some my "bad night" might be a good night for others, so it is all relative. 

Mismatches occur, and I guess there are only two choices, stop playing the game or get right back into battle and keep playing. No matter what is done to the bots, players won't be happy. 

 

Prenzlau

 

Though to be honest, bots at tier IV and lower are almost incapable of securing sectors without all of them being there or receiving help from a human player. They die too quickly to AA, kill light ADA too slowly and the Ao 192 ADA just rips them apart. I've lost matches simply because my bots kept dying over one of our neutral sectors, with no enemy planes in sight, even though I did my best to destroy all AA guns and distract the ADA (even recorded the battle). Either low-tier bots need to be actually capable of doing something productive or the low-tier ADA need to be toned down a bit to compensate. In particular, the Ao 192 ADA feels a bit too strong for both bots and players considering they both attack the same target and low-tier aircraft are not the best at tanking two heavies at once :ohmy:


Edited by LMG, 07 June 2018 - 05:52 PM.

This is my IL-2 (t). There are many like it, but this one is mine. :child:

nwlxn12 #5 Posted 07 June 2018 - 05:53 PM

    Senior Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 1408 battles
  • 205
  • Member since:
    01-01-2012
If WG has adjusted the bots by giving new players an edge, I have only this to say:  What may keep a new player playing this game at the start, will only cause that same player to get frustrated with the game when WG no longer considers them new.

Reitousair #6 Posted 07 June 2018 - 09:08 PM

    Senior Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 6350 battles
  • 456
  • [HVAR] HVAR
  • Member since:
    08-10-2013

To be honest, I'm not entirely sure if bots are balanced by players or even their planes. I've been alone, bottom-tier, against a flight of top-tier aircraft, and have gotten bots so horrendous that the flight barely had anything to do because their bots were ridiculously strong. On the flip side I've been in a flight during a 2v1 match and watch as the bots murdered the enemy team to the point that I had one of the worst matches in my 4500 battles. I'm fairly certain the badly balanced bots are random, because I've had some astonishingly fast victories as well as some hilariously bad defeats no matter if I'm solo, flighted, top-tier, bottom-tier, in a specific plane class, or on a specific map layout. 

 

Individual skill barely matters if you get bad bots, but it might be just enough to turn the tide slightly in your favor but you'll probably break your back from the burden you carry. PP is also not the best way to measure match performance, I had a match in my JL-1A-37 against an FJ-1 where the FJ-1 scored grade 1 and 15k points, and I only scored grade 2 with 9k points, but his team got completely destroyed, why? Because it's not how much score you got, it's how did you get that much score?


I do fly Chinese aircraft a fair amount so... *ahem*

CHINA NUMBAH WAN

 

I even made a custom skin for my IL-10M!

 


hamhockjones #7 Posted 07 June 2018 - 11:01 PM

    Senior Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 8924 battles
  • 137
  • Member since:
    12-04-2013
So what the Prenzlau says is that if we don't like having the handling of our planes reduced, even after we played thousands of games to earn great handling and powerful accurate  guns, then don't play!  Its not right to take away what we have earned! And if we don't like having handicaps placed on veteran players to even the chances so the inexperienced players can win more, then don't play! Also if we don't like one team having fantastic ace bots and the other having terrible no help bots, then don't play! All we are asking as dedicated veteran pilots is to even the bots on both teams as they should be and stop placing handicaps on the veteran player to even the match! What is so bad about that I ask. A fair game for everyone. If folks are not willing to play enough to get good, then they deserve to get pounded by the veterans...What is not fair is that the veterans win percentage should suffer just to accommodate rookies. I know, I know, don't play if u don't like it, lol... HAM

xXx_BulletMagnet_xXx #8 Posted 08 June 2018 - 02:25 AM

    Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 1294 battles
  • 80
  • Member since:
    08-19-2015
The game post 1.9.3 is a turd,end of story!

Prenzlau #9 Posted 08 June 2018 - 02:50 PM

    Senior Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 5670 battles
  • 479
  • [OWSS] OWSS
  • Member since:
    12-14-2015

"The Prenzlau" is not saying don't play. LOL I don't think we are disagreeing. I think we are talking about two things that are related. The ultimate question for the player, "play or don't play". If the player chooses "play", then the player has to realize, "this ain't no fair game"! That is my main point, whether it is manipulating by WG for their own motives or just the inherent flaws in the game, as it is, your not going to get a chess board set up where everything is always fairly lined up at the start. From the make up of the teams on each side, to the types of planes, to the maps, to bot behavior, as a player you might benefit from this chemistry or have a great disadvantage. What Ham is saying is that veteran players are getting handicapped so that less experienced players can feel like they are winners. Like giving a dog who has been neutered a pair of *neuticles! Look that one up! ha! So the real question is why would veteran players have to be handicapped just so noobs and less skilled players can like the game? Maybe it is because this game needs human players, and lots of them to be enjoyable and function, so we don't have to have bot issues one way or another. So like I mentioned, WG is basically giving less experienced players *neuticles so they feel good about the game? So Ham is frustrated because his old balls still work but the game keeps smashing them psychologically! I think each person has a different psychological threshold were they no longer would find this game fun or interesting, having friendships and being in a clan helps, but in the end it is a personal choice, to play or not to play. I would guess that the vast majority of players who have been around a long time, still play warplanes because it is enjoyable, or provides some sort of escape, or maybe they work on video projects or are forums rats. There is always a psychological equation where the benefits out weigh the detriments. If enough experienced players find that what Ham is asserting is too much of a detriment, they will leave and then this game loses something special. Some already have left. 

As frustrating as it seems, both in battles and lets be honest, visiting these forums, players have to come to terms with this game, as a "wait and see" construction. I play almost everyday, I enjoy talking to and playing with friends, and even though I get frustrated, I'm not alone, and I rationalize it by saying "at this moment, this game is what it is". I do not doubt what Ham is asserting or believing, and I actually agree with it. But if we make the decision to play and be a part of this game, then we have accept that we will have some measure of unfairness and get hosed every 3rd, 4th or 5th game we play. So I apologize to Ham for being somewhat of an antagonist, but I cannot play this game psychologically and expect fairness without having a meltdown and resentment towards WG and warplanes. 

I think overall the issue is more complex with just new players winning and older players losing. There are tons of players running around with win rates in the sub 50 percentage and sub 40 percentage. Yet for some unknown reason the game masters and certain clans want these players to feel empowered, and good about themselves and the game, so they don't quit? Or keep forking over their money perhaps? So whether it is protecting them from those bad a*ss seal clubbers or manipulating the game and giving them *neuticles in the form of jacked up bot allies and more wins, there always seems to be this intrigue going on, to what, keep this game going, make money, keep me drinking? All of the above?

Hammy you have to find some bad a*ss friends, flight up and just fly back into the maelstrom and kill more and care less because the deck will always be stacked against you. 

 

The Prenzlau

 

*I'm sorry but I think fake nuts (neuticles) for dogs so they can psychologically feel better is funny. But what is even funnier is all the ways this is done to people, sometimes without them even knowing about it.


Edited by Prenzlau, 08 June 2018 - 04:39 PM.

The Zigfreid & Prenzlau Bombing Company

"We're not just delivering the mail..."

 

 

 


Edward_Thache #10 Posted 08 June 2018 - 04:07 PM

    Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 1185 battles
  • 77
  • Member since:
    04-06-2017

I agree with Prenzlau, I am in a wait and see mode.  I think in all WG games there is an unusual love/hate relationship with these games.  We are here and we play the game because for whatever reason we like something about the game when other games are out there.  Heck, if WoWP was a person, I would have flipped them off a long time ago.  I don't mind playing WoWS knowing that half the team is clueless.  But bots (not worthy of a capital B) in WoWP are not capable of being a wingman or providing decent GA support.  If you could give them orders it would be different but that is not the case.  During Attrition weekends, It is obvious that they are playing conquest strategy.

 

I have really enjoyed the increased human numbers during the War of Attrition  I hope the new update will inject more interest that equates to fewer bots in the long term.   o7



Prenzlau #11 Posted 08 June 2018 - 06:14 PM

    Senior Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 5670 battles
  • 479
  • [OWSS] OWSS
  • Member since:
    12-14-2015

That's right Eddie! Love vs. Hate! It's that dualistic mind set that enables us to equate pain and pleasure as almost the same thing. The schism in our brain that allows us to endure and in some cases develop a need to certain things that might not be in our best interest yet in a twisted sort of logic, so very necessary. Part of me wants to tell Hammy that his pissing and moaning over his plight with the bots in this game is a dead end, yet it would be just as satisfying or more to bond with Hammy in a show of solidarity and show him that we as players don't need to sit here and take it anymore! We can put the system on trial! 

With the War Of Attrition just about upon us, its time. It's time to go out there, into the dangerous skies and show our metal and our guile. Show no mercy to those bots Hammy! I'm with you. I think everyone is with you, Eddie, myself and anyone reading this post. The bots must die! This weekend is the weekend we get even with those bots! No more losing games because of them. This weekend we show WG that no amount of manipulating the bots will matter, for we will rise above! Who is with me?

 

The Prenzlau

 


Edited by Prenzlau, 08 June 2018 - 06:16 PM.

The Zigfreid & Prenzlau Bombing Company

"We're not just delivering the mail..."

 

 

 


Edward_Thache #12 Posted 08 June 2018 - 06:34 PM

    Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 1185 battles
  • 77
  • Member since:
    04-06-2017

I'm in.  I'm going to keep track of my games in wins and losses in relation to the number of bots; just for fun.

 

All things being equal of course,


Edited by Edward_Thache, 08 June 2018 - 06:35 PM.


LMG #13 Posted 08 June 2018 - 06:47 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Member
  • 2026 battles
  • 1,562
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012

In the case of Attrition, I feel it's more a matter of keeping control of the sectors and whether or not a team has an afk'er. If your bots can't kill as much, might as well make any kills they make be worth a lot, and make enemy kills not count for much. It ends up playing pretty much like Conquest, except that Garrisons become extremely valuable as they're so easy to flip for anyone, and Strongholds are not as important as they take so long to flip. Unless there's two of them, mostly because bot GAAs will keep on dying over them.


This is my IL-2 (t). There are many like it, but this one is mine. :child:

CorvusCorvax #14 Posted 08 June 2018 - 07:37 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Member
  • 1478 battles
  • 1,500
  • [JG52] JG52
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012

View Posthamhockjones, on 07 June 2018 - 02:14 PM, said:

I realize by now that one teams bots, especially the game where there is only a couple of humans playing, that the team with better playing humans will have dumb and noobie like bots that are clueless. Please even up the bots. Each team the bots should have the same abilities, fight the same and not determine the games outcome.I know im probably peeing against the wind, but this request is fair for everyone. Also, I have been playing a long time and I can tell when my guns have been turned down, especially my 410. The guns sound the same but they do not cause the same damage they used to..When I score 16000 and I am the only human on my team, and yet the human on other team scores 4000, and my team gets completely dominated, it is obvious that the bots have been mismatched . Asking the one human to make up for 5 or 6 terrible bots is impossible. The new players can win , win, win even though they are terrible.. Earning their wings has been tossed to the wayside, no longer matters.  Sad state of affairs.. ham

 

You and I played together a few times recently, and I noticed that even though you and I did well individually, our bots were horrendous, and their bots were merely competent.    I hate watching a 10%HP friendly bot come into a contested zone, because I know exactly what's going to happen.  They will get shot down, the the cap will flip.  And we had a lot of those kind of bots in our games together.  Heck, I shot down more planes in one of those games than their top-scoring LF pilot!  So what?  I was flying an IL-2.

Shizzywiznut #15 Posted 09 June 2018 - 03:20 AM

    Senior Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 3576 battles
  • 176
  • Member since:
    07-08-2014
Boo *ucking Hoo:P

hamhockjones #16 Posted 09 June 2018 - 03:49 PM

    Senior Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 8924 battles
  • 137
  • Member since:
    12-04-2013
Understand, nobody is crying. We are just giving feedback to hopefully improve the game for everyone. The relatively new players have a hard time understanding because they have not yet become dominate players. I and others that have 20 to 30,000 flights understand. The process of getting to a high level and getting planes to perform at a high level was fun and a lot of work..Frustration is the correct word here. This game has become part of many folks lives. Is this sad? Maybe, but it is what it is. I am a Grandfather, not a young kid as some probably think. This game passes time for me when im alone. I see and notice things that many people probably don't. Here is an example. I have probably flown the spitfire as much or more than anyone else. Yet I have never been offered the spitfire la. Why not I ask? If its a plane that is rewarded for playing well in the spit, then I should have one in my hanger. I see others that have never even got close to my flights in the spit flying around in the spit la. The spit la outflies my spit , out turns my spit. I would like to have one. It looks like it was invented to out turn the best pilots. Maybe, maybe not. Just an example of something I don't understand. If I don't completely kill the spit la, he can have 1 hp left and still out turn me and kill me..But I guess if I had one, yall would make up a plane that would even up the match again. I really thought that making it a challenge to kill me and others was in the best interest of the game. It was for me in the beginning. I wanted to be as good as the great pilots, that's what drove me to improve. Just a little feedback here!  Ham

Prenzlau #17 Posted 11 June 2018 - 02:44 PM

    Senior Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 5670 battles
  • 479
  • [OWSS] OWSS
  • Member since:
    12-14-2015

Ham, That was sentimental, and with a spiraling depressive tone. I bought my Spit la for .99 last fall. I rarely fly it and I would give it to you if I could. Everyone plays this game for a reason and I agree for those who are older and have a lot of time that this game means a great deal to them. That point alone actually is a very valid and important point. Not just an arcade game, not just an exhausted race over a weekend to be in the top 10! Although I'm not retired, I still play this game every day/night, (almost 98%) and it gives me something to do, and I look forward to the people I interact with in this game. So I think there are many people out there, older or younger that can relate to the idea that this game is a part of their everyday lives. Your not alone Ham, and maybe the forums won't satisfy you or give you the answers you seek, but your not alone. 

I think what you are saying is that you feel you have put your time and effort in and there should be something from the game given back to a veteran who has made the sacrifices for the game. At 1,000 battles a pilot gets to be in the hall of fame. But that is not any big deal. it would be fair and appropriate for this game to give pilots a perk for every 1,000 battles they fly. Or maybe milestones like 2,500 or 5,000 battles. I think this is a very valid idea. 

I know my previous posts above were.... ehrr... sarcastic, abrasive, ridiculous, and antagonistic... but that's how I roll sometimes. But if you pull out the "older bro code", I have to get real then. I feel like these forums on the good side are a place for players to get information and share things, so I think a positive place for player vs. player interaction. On the negative side, the forums are a venting place for players who are upset, disgruntled, or dissatisfied with something. The complaining could be viewed as a positive. But I think most players are suspicious that their complaints and ideas never get heard or taken seriously by WG. 

Maybe a "veteran's deserve perks" movement can get started... lets see, aye!

 

Prenzlau


The Zigfreid & Prenzlau Bombing Company

"We're not just delivering the mail..."

 

 

 


Reitousair #18 Posted 12 June 2018 - 09:03 AM

    Senior Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 6350 battles
  • 456
  • [HVAR] HVAR
  • Member since:
    08-10-2013

View Posthamhockjones, on 09 June 2018 - 08:49 AM, said:

 Here is an example. I have probably flown the spitfire as much or more than anyone else. Yet I have never been offered the spitfire la. Why not I ask? If its a plane that is rewarded for playing well in the spit, then I should have one in my hanger. I see others that have never even got close to my flights in the spit flying around in the spit la. The spit la outflies my spit , out turns my spit. I would like to have one. It looks like it was invented to out turn the best pilots. Maybe, maybe not. Just an example of something I don't understand. If I don't completely kill the spit la, he can have 1 hp left and still out turn me and kill me.

 

Hmm, this is the thing about premiums unfortunately, it's very rare you can earn them, most of them time it's just buy them. But from what it looks like you're not familiar with handling a Spit Ia in your Spit I, there are advantages and disadvantages to every plane in the game, and the Spit I can most definitely out fly a Spit Ia but a lot of it is skill and how combat is initiated. It's possible that the Spit Ia pilot is genuinely more familiar with his aircraft, or has a particular pilot that was only released on an event in 1.9 (that's basically a hilariously overpowered Resilience that MASSIVELY increases maneuverability, engine power, and speed at 50% health). Some people learn to fly aircraft, others are natural, and some have an ace up their sleeve that you lack. 

 

Still I do like the idea of more veteran pilots being awarded something, however I just don't really see it working. That would be giving away too much monetary value after a while, even if it were only tier 5 aircraft at the best. It might motivate some to play more, but at the same time it's possible that it might prove rather unhealthy for the community since some people would begin to wholly dedicate their time to WoWp, which could also lead to severe burnout.


I do fly Chinese aircraft a fair amount so... *ahem*

CHINA NUMBAH WAN

 

I even made a custom skin for my IL-10M!

 


sandtiger #19 Posted 29 June 2018 - 02:20 AM

    Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 11545 battles
  • 95
  • Member since:
    04-25-2011

well one of the things i did see today ...  i was on the side that was losing and we where losing bad!! the enemy team had all the base .. then  in one minute  they had no base and  we had them all .. i won that match but there is  no why in hell i took back all there base in one min that just [edited]...  the person on the other side was mad and i can say this i do not blame him ...he should have won that match and this is not the first time i have seen this .. the bots got worse in the last patch or at least in  my opinion they have ..they are  real chaotic you never know what there going to do or not do  .. .. one more thing i was  protecting a  military base and all the bot  ga and bombers keep  come after it.i keep killing them wave after wave and my bot bomber was just fly around not doing one thing it was just going around and around so i think there is something wrong with the bot balance in this new patch .. but again i have only been play for a little bit on here.  i have had more time on wot ..been play there for 7 years .. 

there are many things in this patch that i think broke the game balance like one thing is how some plane get wing repair and engine tuning  and some do not .

 



sandtiger #20 Posted 29 June 2018 - 02:23 AM

    Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 11545 battles
  • 95
  • Member since:
    04-25-2011

one more strange thing i was play my tier four bomber on one of the maps and i had 6 planes all bots attacking me at 10,000 feet i have never seen this before in all the games i have played and it was not just one time it was the hole game and they where not people i checked when i got out of game so some thing is broken again in my opinion... any way have a great day everyone 

 






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users