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Low-flying RB-17s...an unforeseen consequence or intended?

rb-17 bomber low

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pyantoryng #1 Posted 04 June 2018 - 05:22 PM

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I wonder what would happen if bombers actually redzones at low altitude just like old times' Mustangs and Messers...

 

Looks like WG inadvertedly created a monster...or was it intended all along with removed low altitude penalties...



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LMG #2 Posted 04 June 2018 - 05:34 PM

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The only low-altitude Bomber I feel is a bit of an issue is the RB-17, and that's mostly due to how fast it goes and how powerful it's fast-recharging ordnance actually is. There seems to be very few planes that can catch up to it at the tier, and from those not many have the firepower to reliably take it down before the damage is too much. Overall the plane feels like a tier 9, but at tier 8. If anything I'd say buff a few of its stats and bump it up a tier; better gains for the people using it and more aircraft that can deal with it for anyone that has to fight against it :bajan:


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MARS_REVENANT #3 Posted 04 June 2018 - 05:54 PM

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Seems a flight of RB-17 and XF5U was the way to go this weeked.  That in itself tells you something about the planes.

 

Although, I don't think either would be deemed as OP as they are now if we had full 12v12 live player battles.


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LMG #4 Posted 04 June 2018 - 06:16 PM

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View PostMARS_REVENANT, on 04 June 2018 - 12:54 PM, said:

Seems a flight of RB-17 and XF5U was the way to go this weeked.  That in itself tells you something about the planes.

 

Although, I don't think either would be deemed as OP as they are now if we had full 12v12 live player battles.

 

The thing about those planes is that each has quite a lot of benefits with very few downsides. The Pancake is very fast, virtually never stalls, hits hard, turns pretty well for how fast it goes and has ordnance available for emergency ground pounding, with it's downsides being that it's still a turret-less heavy. The RB-17 is fast, has a very powerful payload that recharges in the blink of an eye, a lot of health and a respectable reargun. The downsides are that it's still a bomber, so it can't turn all that well at all and the forward guns were never a priority. While the Pancake is debatable, the RB-17 tends to leave the other tier 8 ground pounders in the dust since it has all the things it needs to pound ground. It's a lot faster, so it can jump from one side of the map to the other in no time. The bombs are almost always a guaranteed kill on any ground target, and they recharge fast enough to compensate for the lack of forward weaponry. Not even my IL-20 can reliably keep up with a decent low-flying RB-17, be it hostile or ally; let alone the Me 329 with lesser ordnance that takes twice as long to recharge as the RB-17's, or any tier 7 GAA for that matter.

 

However, something like the IL-40 can try to keep up with it, hence my idea of buffing it and putting it at tier 9 instead of nerfing it so tier 8 planes can reliably deal with it.


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shirime #5 Posted 04 June 2018 - 06:48 PM

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Vote in favor of the idea of bumping the RB-17 to T9. 

 

Maybe similar fate for the Pancake? Would also likely need a buff or two, but timeline-wise kinda makes sense, maybe a spur line split on the heavies like the Starfire/Pirate split to keep the F2H.

 

Then the F8F Bearcat can take the heavy tier 8 slot.



The_Wild_Weasel #6 Posted 04 June 2018 - 07:41 PM

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Certain planes counter the RB-17's better than others , but not always do these show up, I have been on the reverse against an RB flight in my 262 was in its glory hunting these down. (D0-335 works wonders too)

 

Turn and burn are at a disadvantage, but Im ok with the RB's in general.

 

my 2 cents

 

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I_QQ_4_U #7 Posted 04 June 2018 - 10:17 PM

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View Postshirime, on 04 June 2018 - 06:48 PM, said:

 

 

Then the F8F Bearcat can take the heavy tier 8 slot.

 

That would make no sense at all since the Bearcats whole design concept was to be a small and light point defense fighter for fleet protection.

shirime #8 Posted 04 June 2018 - 11:57 PM

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View PostI_QQ_4_U, on 04 June 2018 - 10:17 PM, said:

 

That would make no sense at all since the Bearcats whole design concept was to be a small and light point defense fighter for fleet protection.

 

shhh... bearcat.

 

If you want an in-game logic argument, the heavies in WOWP are characterized by speed, decent ordnance, and powerful armament; the F8F-1B was mounted with the same 20mm M3 autocannons the Tigercat gets in game (and yes, the same as the F2G, but would hardly be the only example of that). After all, we have the Schwalbe and not the Sturmvogel on the german heavy line, which makes about as much sense in my mind. The speed of the F8F would also make some sense in relation to where the line goes at the top, supplanting the german heavies as fastest in at tier.

 

EDIT: Oh, and we also have the XP-75 Eagle classed as a Heavy in game 


Edited by shirime, 05 June 2018 - 12:02 AM.


SpiritFoxMY #9 Posted 05 June 2018 - 02:05 AM

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View Postshirime, on 05 June 2018 - 07:57 AM, said:

 

shhh... bearcat.

 

If you want an in-game logic argument, the heavies in WOWP are characterized by speed, decent ordnance, and powerful armament; the F8F-1B was mounted with the same 20mm M3 autocannons the Tigercat gets in game (and yes, the same as the F2G, but would hardly be the only example of that). After all, we have the Schwalbe and not the Sturmvogel on the german heavy line, which makes about as much sense in my mind. The speed of the F8F would also make some sense in relation to where the line goes at the top, supplanting the german heavies as fastest in at tier.

 

EDIT: Oh, and we also have the XP-75 Eagle classed as a Heavy in game 

 

Sturmvogel is airframe I of the 262. Schwalbe is airframe 2 

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shirime #10 Posted 05 June 2018 - 02:41 AM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 05 June 2018 - 02:05 AM, said:

 

Sturmvogel is airframe I of the 262. Schwalbe is airframe 2 

 

Never noticed, thanks lol... that makes no sense as the Sturmvogel was the fighter-bomber variant and the Schwalbe was the fighter, but nevermind... 

 

So, back to "shh... bearcat"


Edited by shirime, 05 June 2018 - 02:42 AM.


SpiritFoxMY #11 Posted 05 June 2018 - 03:17 AM

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View Postshirime, on 05 June 2018 - 10:41 AM, said:

 

Never noticed, thanks lol... that makes no sense as the Sturmvogel was the fighter-bomber variant and the Schwalbe was the fighter, but nevermind... 

 

Well the Sturmvogel only had two MK108s rather than the four on the Schwalbe (historically) so it makes some sense that the first fuselage with only two MK108s would be the Sturmvogel airframe (also the 2x250kg bombs are available before the R4Ms)

 

But yes....Bearcat


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egikov #12 Posted 05 June 2018 - 04:58 AM

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It's working as intended.

There are planes that can kill it easy and there are planes that can't do anything about it. XF5U Pancake is not a super plane, it's quite slow for a tier 8 heavy and it is not jet powered, so it's slow to gain speed, it's altitude is also not as good as many other planes.

There are other planes that close to impossible to kill by any other plane that nobody talks about.

For example, Me-262 is very fast and even many tier 10 planes will have a problem killing it and nobody ever complains about it. That's actually why RB-17 will have problem with it at any altitude or speed.

Many other planes at tier 8 can catch up with RB-17 in a dive (Maximum dive speed on many planes is very high) and kill it. Good pilots can learn the tactics and kill it without much trouble. 

One time I killed RB-17 at low altitude using Bf-109z. However, his guns damaged me so much that AA killed me. So, it's just a tier 8 premium bomber. I hope non premium bombers in tier 8 will not be better, but similar to this one.

 


Edited by egikov, 05 June 2018 - 04:59 AM.


SpiritFoxMY #13 Posted 05 June 2018 - 05:14 AM

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View Postegikov, on 05 June 2018 - 12:58 PM, said:

It's working as intended.

There are planes that can kill it easy and there are planes that can't do anything about it. XF5U Pancake is not a super plane, it's quite slow for a tier 8 heavy and it is not jet powered, so it's slow to gain speed, it's altitude is also not as good as many other planes.

There are other planes that close to impossible to kill by any other plane that nobody talks about.

For example, Me-262 is very fast and even many tier 10 planes will have a problem killing it and nobody ever complains about it. That's actually why RB-17 will have problem with it at any altitude or speed.

Many other planes at tier 8 can catch up with RB-17 in a dive (Maximum dive speed on many planes is very high) and kill it. Good pilots can learn the tactics and kill it without much trouble. 

One time I killed RB-17 at low altitude using Bf-109z. However, his guns damaged me so much that AA killed me. So, it's just a tier 8 premium bomber. I hope non premium bombers in tier 8 will not be better, but similar to this one.

 

 

Here's the problem: most of the planes that can hard counter an RB-17 are also planes that will not carry a match in any other situation. I mean, what would you rather sit in all weekend? An RB17 or a 262? 

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LMG #14 Posted 05 June 2018 - 05:17 AM

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View Postegikov, on 04 June 2018 - 11:58 PM, said:

It's working as intended.

There are planes that can kill it easy and there are planes that can't do anything about it. XF5U Pancake is not a super plane, it's quite slow for a tier 8 heavy and it is not jet powered, so it's slow to gain speed, it's altitude is also not as good as many other planes.

There are other planes that close to impossible to kill by any other plane that nobody talks about.

For example, Me-262 is very fast and even many tier 10 planes will have a problem killing it and nobody ever complains about it. That's actually why RB-17 will have problem with it at any altitude or speed.

Many other planes at tier 8 can catch up with RB-17 in a dive (Maximum dive speed on many planes is very high) and kill it. Good pilots can learn the tactics and kill it without much trouble. 

One time I killed RB-17 at low altitude using Bf-109z. However, his guns damaged me so much that AA killed me. So, it's just a tier 8 premium bomber. I hope non premium bombers in tier 8 will not be better, but similar to this one.

 

The thing about the Me 262 is that it's so difficult to secure kills with it most people don't even bother. The guns hurt a lot if you can hit with them, but most people straight up can't hit with them reliably due to a number of factors, including the speed of the Me 262.

 

If planes can catch up to the RB-17, by all means please do. I'd love to be wrong about this big guy being a bit too strong for the tier, and not just having to watch the whole map turn red as I slowly drag my GAAs into the next sector whenever someone that knows how to fly the thing shows up.

 


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CorvusCorvax #15 Posted 05 June 2018 - 02:36 PM

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View PostLMG, on 05 June 2018 - 05:17 AM, said:

 

The thing about the Me 262 is that it's so difficult to secure kills with it most people don't even bother. The guns hurt a lot if you can hit with them, but most people straight up can't hit with them reliably due to a number of factors, including the speed of the Me 262.

 

If planes can catch up to the RB-17, by all means please do. I'd love to be wrong about this big guy being a bit too strong for the tier, and not just having to watch the whole map turn red as I slowly drag my GAAs into the next sector whenever someone that knows how to fly the thing shows up.

 

 

I'm looking forward to getting out of the -109Z and into the -262.  Yes, I know that the learning curve will be steep.  But I enjoy the German heavies...

 

I think the Z will be the second German heavy I sell.  I sold the -110B to free up space for the -110E (which I kept).  Some days, I *just* fly German heavies.  I'll just have to teach myself how to wreck bombers and other heavies with speed and those big guns.  :)

 

Oh, and stoop down and crush a fighter or two every now and then.



SpiritFoxMY #16 Posted 05 June 2018 - 03:16 PM

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View PostCorvusCorvax, on 05 June 2018 - 10:36 PM, said:

 

I'm looking forward to getting out of the -109Z and into the -262.  Yes, I know that the learning curve will be steep.  But I enjoy the German heavies...

 

I think the Z will be the second German heavy I sell.  I sold the -110B to free up space for the -110E (which I kept).  Some days, I *just* fly German heavies.  I'll just have to teach myself how to wreck bombers and other heavies with speed and those big guns.  :)

 

Oh, and stoop down and crush a fighter or two every now and then.

 

Well, good luck to you then. I never learned to love the 262 - it was always situational for me at best and that situation is usually a pair of RB-17s trying shenanigans across the map. Its a one-trick pony that does one thing really well and little else. I'd even take the similar-but-one-tier-higher Huckebein over the 262.

 

egikov is a much better 262 player than I'll ever be iirc.


Edited by SpiritFoxMY, 05 June 2018 - 03:17 PM.

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SlappedbyRommel #17 Posted 05 June 2018 - 04:13 PM

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Just leave my RB17 alone its not easy being a Russian bomber everyone hates the Bear......snicker .......its not my fault the capitalistic dogs cannot build a plane to catch me......snicker......just feel the pain of  my Babushka as she drops many loads of turnips upon your head at 30 meters......one more snicker......:trollface:

FIight #18 Posted 05 June 2018 - 04:48 PM

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RB-17 is the undefeated spirit of Russia.

nwlxn12 #19 Posted 05 June 2018 - 04:50 PM

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I am pretty sure WG did not intend for bombers to fly down low and create all sorts of havoc.  If my memory serves me correct, a long time ago WG also didn't like GA doing a lot of air to air fighting instead of ground pounding like they were supposed to.  To counter GA fighting other aircraft, they implemented a accuracy reduction for GA when firing on other aircraft so even though you can still shoot down other planes with GA, it is not as easy as it once was.  If WG does not like bombers flying low and fast, I am betting they implement some future change to make it more difficult to do so.

LMG #20 Posted 05 June 2018 - 05:00 PM

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View Postnwlxn12, on 05 June 2018 - 11:50 AM, said:

I am pretty sure WG did not intend for bombers to fly down low and create all sorts of havoc.  If my memory serves me correct, a long time ago WG also didn't like GA doing a lot of air to air fighting instead of ground pounding like they were supposed to.  To counter GA fighting other aircraft, they implemented a accuracy reduction for GA when firing on other aircraft so even though you can still shoot down other planes with GA, it is not as easy as it once was.  If WG does not like bombers flying low and fast, I am betting they implement some future change to make it more difficult to do so.

 

They already tried by removing the bombing reticle at extremely low altitudes. Problem is that their bombs behave differently to the GAA's, making them a bit more predictable


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