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would RL wingman tactics work in wowp?


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trikke #1 Posted 03 June 2018 - 02:15 PM

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i suppose this question is aimed at folks who flight up a lot...

 

would/do actual RL wingman tactics work?    i'm guessing the wingman just dutifully follows the flight lead around and keeps his tail clear

 

but it could also mean reporting on the general flow of capping, and the approach of other dangerous humans...  that's the kind of news i could use

 

a flight could switch off the lead every couple of minutes when it's not busy, and switch off yet again when the wingman gets someone on their tail

 

speaking of following... would a successful wingman follow way back, trolling for a sucker so that the lead would turn back and kill it?

 

surely the wingman would always get killed before the lead could loop around and kill the attacker?

 

who are the top flighted aces, help us understand the key details?    how do you guys 'distribute the load'?

 

i'll always be a crappy wingman, because i'm so easily distracted...  but how do other folks approach the role of wingman?

 

and wingmanning in different classes, using the same class together or not?


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Ace_BOTlistic_Cosmo #2 Posted 03 June 2018 - 02:29 PM

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View Posttrikke, on 03 June 2018 - 09:15 AM, said:

i suppose this question is aimed at folks who flight up a lot...

 

would/do actual RL wingman tactics work?    i'm guessing the wingman just dutifully follows the flight lead around and keeps his tail clear

 

but it could also mean reporting on the general flow of capping, and the approach of other dangerous humans...  that's the kind of news i could use

 

a flight could switch off the lead every couple of minutes when it's not busy, and switch off yet again when the wingman gets someone on their tail

 

speaking of following... would a successful wingman follow way back, trolling for a sucker so that the lead would turn back and kill it?

 

surely the wingman would always get killed before the lead could loop around and kill the attacker?

 

who are the top flighted aces, help us understand the key details?    how do you guys 'distribute the load'?

 

i'll always be a crappy wingman, because i'm so easily distracted...  but how do other folks approach the role of wingman?

 

and wingmanning in different classes, using the same class together or not?

 

in the old (1.9 and before) it would make a huge difference to play a teamwork/wingman duo (or with 3 man flights)

this new game seems to be more like success is based on short term strategy type play with a minor in flight skills...

but, I'm no expert in 2.0...

just my VHO


if the pilot's good, see, I mean, if he's really..sharp, he can barrel that baby in so low [he spreads his arms like wings and laughs],

you oughtta see it sometime, it's a sight. A big plane like a '52. VRROOM! There's jet exhaust, fryin' chickens in the barnyard.


Reitousair #3 Posted 03 June 2018 - 05:24 PM

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I don't flight up a ton myself but when I do, strategy heavily depends on allied/enemy/flightmate plane choice, map layout, and who the players are on each team.

 

Generally speaking, flying as close together wingmen is not recommended as tieing up two people to do one task can prove a terrible choice. However a loose flight is usually what occurs, with the flight splitting up at the start of the match and either meeting up at a certain place or remaining somewhat near each other in the case somebody gets into a really bad situation but might stand a chance at living. Baiting bots and players into the other is a strategy that still remains effective, especially if you can lure them into a cap. Now, when things get really dire and it comes to having both people caught up in the same fight, the duo will take turns trying to get their pursuer into position for the other to tear apart. Alternatively, maneuver with each other and try to unnerve pursuers by shooting at them when the chance presents itself, frequently it becomes one person is doing a horizontal turn, the other is doing a vertical loop.

 

If HF's are present however tactics are different for the most part. Actually, tactics change drastically across the tiers for HF's, but I'll go over more general tactics.  HF's are perhaps the most common choice for a more supportive role in the flight, since they can drop what they're doing and streak across the map to tear apart anybody trying to lay a finger on their flightmate, they're also great at baiting enemy aircraft since players will usually take great care to not become your target leaving themselves vulnerable or they might prioritize you and eventually tunnel-vision, bots seem to love chasing HF's to the ends of the Earth. Usually flights that have HF's can win simply because the HF was tearing apart so many planes the enemy couldn't gain any traction in flipping caps. There is a common tactic double HF flights will use, a double-bounce where they both attack the same target, it's terrifyingly powerful against aircraft and with proper application can be used to flip caps with little risk. Double HF flights left alive after squall without quickly being dealt with will almost always win by killing the entire enemy team rather than flipping a bunch of caps and defending them.

 

Now... if there's GA/Bombers in the flight, tactics change. A single GA/Bomber will usually result in a flight where the fighter will hold a critical point while the GA/Bomber caps everything else; HF's will frequently be used as active defenders dashing around the map to defend areas. The very, very eyebrow-raising double GA/Bomber flight however, is nigh unstoppable in high-tiers if played correctly, there's two strategies usually, multi-front and spearhead as I like to call them. Multi-front is when the flight will entirely split up and only coordinate between each other so much as to the extent of telling the other where they're going, or where the other should probably go, this is usually seen when the flight is composed of high-tier GA (especially the IL-40/40P) or low-altitude bombers since they can flip caps quickly and having two of them is complete overkill. Spearhead is when both members of the flight attack single points and work together, usually coordinating to what ground targets they're attacking or softening up, and will support each other heavily, proper wingmen, you only really see this in low-mid tier GA, high-altitude bombers, and GA with little payload (like the Me 265 and Me 329) this is usually due to the inability to quickly capture an area, and also to try and cover over each others vulnerabilities, it's an easier to use, safer strategy albeit less efficient.


I do fly Chinese aircraft a fair amount so... *ahem*

CHINA NUMBAH WAN

 


LMG #4 Posted 03 June 2018 - 05:30 PM

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View PostReitousair, on 03 June 2018 - 12:24 PM, said:

I don't flight up a ton myself but when I do, strategy heavily depends on allied/enemy/flightmate plane choice, map layout, and who the players are on each team.

 

Generally speaking, flying as close together wingmen is not recommended as tieing up two people to do one task can prove a terrible choice. However a loose flight is usually what occurs, with the flight splitting up at the start of the match and either meeting up at a certain place or remaining somewhat near each other in the case somebody gets into a really bad situation but might stand a chance at living. Baiting bots and players into the other is a strategy that still remains effective, especially if you can lure them into a cap. Now, when things get really dire and it comes to having both people caught up in the same fight, the duo will take turns trying to get their pursuer into position for the other to tear apart. Alternatively, maneuver with each other and try to unnerve pursuers by shooting at them when the chance presents itself, frequently it becomes one person is doing a horizontal turn, the other is doing a vertical loop.

 

If HF's are present however tactics are different for the most part. Actually, tactics change drastically across the tiers for HF's, but I'll go over more general tactics.  HF's are perhaps the most common choice for a more supportive role in the flight, since they can drop what they're doing and streak across the map to tear apart anybody trying to lay a finger on their flightmate, they're also great at baiting enemy aircraft since players will usually take great care to not become your target leaving themselves vulnerable or they might prioritize you and eventually tunnel-vision, bots seem to love chasing HF's to the ends of the Earth. Usually flights that have HF's can win simply because the HF was tearing apart so many planes the enemy couldn't gain any traction in flipping caps. There is a common tactic double HF flights will use, a double-bounce where they both attack the same target, it's terrifyingly powerful against aircraft and with proper application can be used to flip caps with little risk. Double HF flights left alive after squall without quickly being dealt with will almost always win by killing the entire enemy team rather than flipping a bunch of caps and defending them.

 

Now... if there's GA/Bombers in the flight, tactics change. A single GA/Bomber will usually result in a flight where the fighter will hold a critical point while the GA/Bomber caps everything else; HF's will frequently be used as active defenders dashing around the map to defend areas. The very, very eyebrow-raising double GA/Bomber flight however, is nigh unstoppable in high-tiers if played correctly, there's two strategies usually, multi-front and spearhead as I like to call them. Multi-front is when the flight will entirely split up and only coordinate between each other so much as to the extent of telling the other where they're going, or where the other should probably go, this is usually seen when the flight is composed of high-tier GA (especially the IL-40/40P) or low-altitude bombers since they can flip caps quickly and having two of them is complete overkill. Spearhead is when both members of the flight attack single points and work together, usually coordinating to what ground targets they're attacking or softening up, and will support each other heavily, proper wingmen, you only really see this in low-mid tier GA, high-altitude bombers, and GA with little payload (like the Me 265 and Me 329) this is usually due to the inability to quickly capture an area, and also to try and cover over each others vulnerabilities, it's an easier to use, safer strategy albeit less efficient.

 

I'd like to think the improvised Spearhead assault on our IL-10s worked quite well yesterday :bajan:


This is my IL-2 (t). There are many like it, but this one is mine. :child:

trikke #5 Posted 03 June 2018 - 06:47 PM

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thank you...  so much to absorb here

 

every word a golden nugget 

 

 


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Caducus46 #6 Posted 03 June 2018 - 07:28 PM

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It's all about communication In flights. Most flights I've been in we look out for each other. When you can, you look at the mini map and put eyes on the area around your buddy. But, in the end, it's all about how situationally aware one is.

trikke #7 Posted 03 June 2018 - 07:48 PM

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i've always wanted a two man plane for flighting up, in the style like an tandem F-4 Phantom...

 

one guy flys it while the other guy watches what's happening on the minimap, drops bombs, tailgunner, etc...   it would work for bombers, HFs and GAs

 

they don't even need to know each other, just click on something in the hangar and whoosh, you're in a plane and neither knew who would be the pilot or back seat

 

oh well, it'll never happen, but i would enjoy the teamwork aspect immensely 


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SpiritFoxMY #8 Posted 04 June 2018 - 06:19 AM

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IL-2: Battle of Kuban actually allows you to drop into the gunner positions on multi-crew airplanes. I've considered it but buying an entire game just to jump into multiplayer battles as a tailgunner seems a little inefficient...

Edited by SpiritFoxMY, 04 June 2018 - 06:21 AM.

***

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MacDaddyMatty #9 Posted 04 June 2018 - 11:49 AM

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IMHO...

It's less about following around and more about coordination.


 

You need to be far enough back that you're not going to get someone on you, and close enough to still support.

Being back and above your flight lead allows you to shoot at his target, and deter anyone looking to get on his tail.

Since you're above you can gain energy when diving to intercept targets.


 

Communication is key.

"Peeling off to clear your tail, you're alone" when chasing bandits off of his tail.

and when one of you has one on your tail...

"Bring him to me" for the head on.


 

My favorite thing is fighting alongside a clan mate, in the same plane type, and working as a team.

Both in GAA roles, but mostly as fighters.


 

YMMV

 


 


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CorvusCorvax #10 Posted 04 June 2018 - 02:17 PM

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Can confirm that the heavy fighter tag-team is a pretty solid lock on battle win.  Two Me-410s, in the hands of pilots who know how to use these aircraft in BnZ, will completely ruin your whole day.

trikke #11 Posted 05 June 2018 - 02:46 AM

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haven't flown a heavy for quite a while until today, and i struggled 

 

HFs used to be my go-to planes, but now they seem like the large dumb kid in the back of the class...  helpful in sticky situations, but just not as much fun as you'd hoped

 

but i need that firepower, so i've got to relearn and then grind past the tigercat to the pancake


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SpiritFoxMY #12 Posted 05 June 2018 - 03:18 AM

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View Posttrikke, on 05 June 2018 - 10:46 AM, said:

haven't flown a heavy for quite a while until today, and i struggled 

 

HFs used to be my go-to planes, but now they seem like the large dumb kid in the back of the class...  helpful in sticky situations, but just not as much fun as you'd hoped

 

but i need that firepower, so i've got to relearn and then grind past the tigercat to the pancake

 

Join the Focke-Wulf squad. We have cookies.

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CorvusCorvax #13 Posted 05 June 2018 - 02:19 PM

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View Posttrikke, on 05 June 2018 - 02:46 AM, said:

haven't flown a heavy for quite a while until today, and i struggled 

 

HFs used to be my go-to planes, but now they seem like the large dumb kid in the back of the class...  helpful in sticky situations, but just not as much fun as you'd hoped

 

but i need that firepower, so i've got to relearn and then grind past the tigercat to the pancake

 

The Pancake is a brilliant as the Tigercat is potato.  I had to rage-XP past the Tigercat - it just p*ssed me right off.

 

The FW line, eh?  The Ta-152 amuses me with the derp cannon, but since the Tornado has turned into a favorite for me, maybe the -190 line would be amusing...



SpiritFoxMY #14 Posted 05 June 2018 - 05:28 PM

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View PostCorvusCorvax, on 05 June 2018 - 10:19 PM, said:

The FW line, eh?  The Ta-152 amuses me with the derp cannon, but since the Tornado has turned into a favorite for me, maybe the -190 line would be amusing...

 

Focke-Wulfs are very different from the Tornados though - they accelerate faster to higher maximums and maintain energy pretty well but lack the maneuverability of the Tornado or even the Corsair.

 

The Ta- line isn't really a favorite of mine. I much prefer the B.Vs which fly more like traditional fighters than the FWs before them but pack a nice rack of rockets for dealing with pesky GAAs and head-on heavies.

 

I've been fiddling around with some recording so here're a couple of Focke-Wulf games I was faffing around in with trikke (and don't mind the gold - I was ticked off at a few tier 8 - 9 roflstomps in both cases by GAA/Bomber flights so I was packing heat)

 

 

I'll just note neither was a particularly great show of skill on my part.


Edited by SpiritFoxMY, 05 June 2018 - 05:39 PM.

***

But a truce to this mournful story

For death is a distant friend

So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


trikke #15 Posted 05 June 2018 - 08:02 PM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 05 June 2018 - 01:28 PM, said:

 

I'll just note neither was a particularly great show of skill on my part.

 

bullcrap... both videos showed how hard you have to work, just to keep me alive an extra 30 seconds!       damn that phil in his 9u!

 

great job, brother!


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mnbv_fockewulfe #16 Posted 05 June 2018 - 08:37 PM

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View Posttrikke, on 05 June 2018 - 08:02 PM, said:

 

bullcrap... both videos showed how hard you have to work, just to keep me alive an extra 30 seconds!       damn that phil in his 9u!

 

great job, brother!

 

I don't know about you, but I just love shooting down russian planes in my FWs.:playing:

Be sure to check your logic privileges before posting on the forum.

 

mnbv_fockewulfe.png


 


LMG #17 Posted 05 June 2018 - 08:48 PM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 05 June 2018 - 12:28 PM, said:

 

Focke-Wulfs are very different from the Tornados though - they accelerate faster to higher maximums and maintain energy pretty well but lack the maneuverability of the Tornado or even the Corsair.

 

The Ta- line isn't really a favorite of mine. I much prefer the B.Vs which fly more like traditional fighters than the FWs before them but pack a nice rack of rockets for dealing with pesky GAAs and head-on heavies.

 

I've been fiddling around with some recording so here're a couple of Focke-Wulf games I was faffing around in with trikke (and don't mind the gold - I was ticked off at a few tier 8 - 9 roflstomps in both cases by GAA/Bomber flights so I was packing heat)

 

I'll just note neither was a particularly great show of skill on my part.

 

RIP the Yak-9u that crashed after a head-on fight and trikke that smashed into the boat he was trying to save :P

 

The Fws caught my attention when I was looking for something faster than the Corsair, but after a bit of research they seemed to lose a lot of speed for the extra firepower, which made me go for the Republic line instead


Edited by LMG, 05 June 2018 - 08:49 PM.

This is my IL-2 (t). There are many like it, but this one is mine. :child:

CorvusCorvax #18 Posted 14 June 2018 - 07:05 PM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 05 June 2018 - 05:28 PM, said:

 

Focke-Wulfs are very different from the Tornados though - they accelerate faster to higher maximums and maintain energy pretty well but lack the maneuverability of the Tornado or even the Corsair.

 

The Ta- line isn't really a favorite of mine. I much prefer the B.Vs which fly more like traditional fighters than the FWs before them but pack a nice rack of rockets for dealing with pesky GAAs and head-on heavies.

 

I'll just note neither was a particularly great show of skill on my part.

LOL, sure.  

 

BnZ multiroles have their place alongside TnB multiroles.  I like the Tornado because of the great speed it can put on, if it needs to. But I do watch out for the Wurgervogeln.  Because if I can, I will close and engage in a knife-fight.  I don't want to play the energy game with a FW-190, so I don't, if I can avoid it.






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