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SpiritFoxMY #21 Posted 01 June 2018 - 03:23 AM

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Could check out Heliborne. I really should go back in there and have a quick look at that one

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bjorn1984 #22 Posted 01 June 2018 - 06:34 AM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 01 June 2018 - 03:23 AM, said:

Could check out Heliborne. I really should go back in there and have a quick look at that one

 

Heliborne is sh*t now. They got the AA way over buffed and the player base is about 4-5 people.
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poisonousblood #23 Posted 01 June 2018 - 09:06 AM

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congrats Bruiser!

G_Murray #24 Posted 01 June 2018 - 04:18 PM

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Well said. I found myself starting to feel salty as people seemed to have forgotten how Attrition works. I let it go at that, I don't like people raging in the chat. That's one of the main reasons I left Tanks. Way too toxic over there.

WdoMkr #25 Posted 02 June 2018 - 01:41 AM

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Change the name to World of War... and let ship captains bombard the shores tank players are on...tankers can shoot back..planes guys can launch sorties off aircraft carriers...ohhhh the possibilities...

 



pyantoryng #26 Posted 02 June 2018 - 02:48 AM

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View PostWdoMkr, on 02 June 2018 - 08:41 AM, said:

Change the name to World of War... and let ship captains bombard the shores tank players are on...tankers can shoot back..planes guys can launch sorties off aircraft carriers...ohhhh the possibilities...

 

 

Server breaks, client break, teh end.

 

...sure wish I could use my Lexington for my plane roster, though...:trollface:



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Pogo68 #27 Posted 02 June 2018 - 06:27 AM

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View PostLMG, on 31 May 2018 - 11:08 AM, said:

Personally I think the German Bombers could use a buff, either with better recharge time on their bombs or better turrets so they don't have to literally kiss the sky just to have a shot at staying alive.

 

Don't you think they've been given the Germans enough boosts already?


 


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SgtSchlautter #28 Posted 02 June 2018 - 07:17 AM

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View Post_Bruiser_, on 31 May 2018 - 06:22 PM, said:

Streamers.....Your content is completely up to you and I know I have no say on anything you do but, please realize that you are in a position to influence your viewers. Being positive and upbeat will trickle down and grow your viewers to be the same. On the other hand, being negative will influence them to be negative also. This week has been full of talk about things that just simply aren't true.

1. WG DOES NOT cater to the top ten. Does this even make sense? How would they know who would be in the top ten before it started? Amazing this is even a thought.

2. GAA and Bombers need a nerf. No they don't. Players need to learn how to counter them instead of wanting an easy way out by nerfing. Btw, if they are so easy why aren't YOU playing them? I'm personally stuck at the t7's, and don't even have the ones that are useful.

3. Player hunting. If I am defending my teams cap and you are trying to flip it, of course I am going to hunt you. You are much more effective at flipping a cap than any bot. Same the other way, if I'm trying to flip a cap and you are defending it, I will target you first because you are much more effective at defending than any bot. All of this isn't "hunting", it's called winning. Hunting is chasing humans with no regard to winning, losing, or any objective.

4. Shaming. Actually looking up a player stats after you lose and trying to shame them is so child-like. ANYONE'S stats can be looked at in a negative light, so be careful this same thing doesn't come back to also affect you.

 

1. It isn't about WG 'catering to the top 10.' It is about the fact that the game is dying because WG isn't doing much to show that they care about the game and to maintain the playerbase. The event should be catered to the whole playerbase rather than just a select 10 players. For example, if the female pilot was given to everyone who achieved 1 million personal points throughout the event. This change in format would give players a goal to reach and an objective to shoot for. The rewards for casual play does not engage players very much as most of the players do not feel as though they could achieve the top 10 and therefore decide not to participate. This is poor event design. That is what the community is mad about. Only 10 players receiving the ultimate prize is the issue here. Even if the event gave the female pilot to 100 players, I think there would be far less outcry from the community.

 

2. I agree. GA's are not op. . . Until you get to tier 8-10. If one team has a human tier 9 GA and the other does not, unless the human GA player is absolutely terrible, the win will most often go to the GA player. I don't believe the outcry from the community is about the Ju-87 and Ju 88A being op. In fact, I think they could actually use a minor buff. The op GA's are at tiers 8-10. As for bombers: The German ones are fine. They feel quite balanced and could even use a minor buff in my opinion. However, the premium bombers are unbelievably op. And considering the fact that 50% of the bombers in the game currently are premium, this is a SERIOUS issue. Now I do realize that bombers are the newest class to be introduced into the game, but that is all the more reason they need a rebalance.

 

3.Thanks for defining player hunting. However, I feel player hunting is more closely defined as ignoring all planes in the game except a single plane. Traveling the whole map just to shoot down such targeted player is considered player hunting. This means that player hunting is useless as the player that is player hunting is essentially being useless to the team. Now, what you outlined could be better defined as targeting. This is when you have a select few targets in front of you but you target the plane you deem the most dangerous. Often, the most dangerous player is a human. However, even this can lead to defeat if the targeting is too focused on human hunting. When players become oblivious of their 6, then it often ends in death. The only time I get angry for getting targeted by other humans is when I am the only target they care about. But even then, it often means their team will lose as targeting a single player is not a game-winning strategy. I will also mention head-hunting bots as I despise those most of all. If a human wants to target me the whole match, then fine. But if a bot wants to target me the whole match, I have an issue with that. I had a game earlier today in my Tornado where an enemy bot spitfire came right to me every time he respawned. If I did not kill him, he would be on my tail every time. Over the course of the match, I shot him down a total of 4 times. Those are the bots I hate.

 

4. If stats are all that a player cares about, then they shouldn't be playing. A good winrate is always nice, but I'm never going to stress if I have a good winrate or not. I would say from my experience that only the players with the highest winrates really care about their winrate in any real capacity. I don't believe stat farming is a huge issue within the community.

 

As for your comment about streamers, I agree. Streamers and content creators absolutely have influence on the community. But only talking positively just isn't the solution most of the time. As far as I'm aware, most of the content creators have praised certain actions from WG, but often voice their concerns with the game as well. We play the game with the good and the bad. So only talking about the good seems wrong to me. Change comes through voicing our concerns. Consider this example: If things are wrong with the game and people simply stop playing, then what does that tell WG? In WG's eyes, it may seem as no one cares for the game or they could be confused as to why everyone is leaving. However, when we voice our concerns, it tells WG WHY players are getting upset with the game and leaving. One other thing, you voiced your concerns about the community's view on the forum. To content creators, their voice lies within their streams or videos on youtube. This is how they express their opinions. Telling them only to speak positively is a little narrow minded in my opinion



SgtSchlautter #29 Posted 02 June 2018 - 07:19 AM

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View PostPogo68, on 02 June 2018 - 06:27 AM, said:

 

Don't you think they've been given the Germans enough boosts already?


 

 

It is clear that german bombers do not have the same prowess in battle as the premium bombers. Therefore, either the premium bombers need a nerf or german bombers need a buff. I believe nerfing the premium bombers is the better solution

LMG #30 Posted 02 June 2018 - 04:06 PM

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View PostPogo68, on 02 June 2018 - 01:27 AM, said:

Don't you think they've been given the Germans enough boosts already?

 

Well, from my experience the German bombers take too long to reload their bombs, forcing them to stay idle for far longer than other bombers, and increasing the time it takes them to secure a sector. Their turrets are also fairly weak and they can't put up much of a fight when under attack from other aircraft, especially heavies. I personally ditched the grind on the Ju 88 A


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SlappedbyRommel #31 Posted 02 June 2018 - 04:52 PM

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Well said Bruiser - It is true know the role for any plane GA , Bomber, or Fighter you fly plus think outside the box on how to counter attacks and how to attack also if I defend a cap and you are the enemy who shows up the in the same area well 1 of will go down I don't think that if Hunting a player down. If there is a choice between 2 targets bot or human I will go for the human 100% I don't go out of my way looking for a specific player unless its is WildWeasel, WsCarter, CanGrunt or Z3M clan mates Rolflmao.

 

As for bombers doing a low level attack full throttle is a heck of a lot more fun than flying in circle at altitude (big yawn) nothing like a tier 8 RB17 maxed at over 800 km/h wrecking a cap and its even better with 2 of them.

 

I don't think getting salty is good for anyone and I don't put the hours in to get a great winrate I have other interests happening I just want to have a competitive game while having fun. One thing though improving your game play makes it enjoyable for yourself and your team better chances to win you can make a difference. Yes, I agree attrition takes a bit getting used to especially if bots line themselves up to be shot down that is frustrating since its based whats left for your side as in numbers and then people want to vent since they can not control a bot - been on both ends of bad or good bots in the game.

 

I do believe they need to even up bot play to not be so stupid in their operation it would help all of us in the end.

 

 

 

 



trikke #32 Posted 02 June 2018 - 09:25 PM

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View PostSlappedbyRommel, on 02 June 2018 - 12:52 PM, said:

Well said Bruiser 

 

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f16falcona46 #33 Posted 03 June 2018 - 07:13 AM

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GA at tier 9 and 10 are absolutely brutal because (1) they have long-ranged guns, both front and back, (2) precision gunner's existence, (3) good climb rate and good speed, and (4) the low alt cap of multirole fighters. And it's telling when the people on the leaderboard are playing XF5U, RB-17, and GA. (I don't play them that much because I find them a little boring.)

 

Player hunting isn't just "I target player on sight". It's "I chase player all over the map to the detriment of my team to kill him".

 

Top 10 is bad because it means you constantly have to keep putting in matches just to stay on the leaderboard. You don't feel good about doing it, because the requirements effectively keep changing every minute. It's a recipe for burnout. Combine that with RU staff's statement that you could supposedly get good results playing 1-2 stellar matches per game (you might get top 2500 with that).

 

Worse, it encourages unsportsmanlike conduct, such as a certain player quitting to hangar when killed (because it takes too much time). It's all about Personal Points per minute, and everything else is secondary...including your teammates. This wouldn't be so much of a problem if a game quitting penalty was imposed.

 

View PostArrowZ_, on 01 June 2018 - 02:38 AM, said:

About the player stats & shaming part: This part of the game died a long time ago when the devs put in the bots. It holds very little weight into how "good" the players actually are. You want to rely on stats to gauge the player's skill? Look at the stats before 1.x release. That's where it actually mattered because at that time it was all 15v15 players battles. With 2.0 the best way to gauge a player's skill is how well they contribute to the team in Combat points & attacking/maintaining those sectors and being able to adapt to situations where you're at a constant RNGfest with these bots. And also how well they use their aircraft's role into the game mode. There's no point in clinging to these stats in 2.0 because they're heavily inflated by these bot kills. And you also got the whole flight debacle. Ofcourse your stats are going to be even greater with flights against 90% bots. That's obvious!

None of these apply to the most-used stat, winrate. There's always at least one human on the enemy team.



shirime #34 Posted 03 June 2018 - 07:03 PM

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Spoiler

 

Yeah, I have to agree this "event" has rapidly become a bit of a bust.

 

With a select number of planes giving by far the greatest rewards combined with a farming goal for good players to be on long hours, the server population seems (admittedly subjectively) down even in relation to recent weekday populations. This is not a good sign when a primary goal at the moment should be increasing population. Personally saw a lot fewer people from the friends list/clan list on, and those that I did didn't stay on nearly as long as a few weeks ago. 

 

It's not clear to me if this is intended as a "This is how we're gonna do Attrition mode, get used to it" or if we're live testing the mode again, with the special pilots as "motivation", either way it doesn't seem to be currently be serving any long-term useful goals for the game. 

 

It does seem misguided to have a "winner-take-all" approach to the only meaningful reward for the "event"; I don't particularly care personally, but it does seem that if the goal is to test the mode I don't know why they wouldn't do as suggested above; make the reward about helping test the mode, not winning a competition. 1,000,000 PP, 100 games played, whatever.

 

I know this isn't WG's general MO, but people tend to react relatively rationally to situations like this. If the writing is on the wall that it's only worth playing IF you happen to have certain planes, experience and ability to use them reasonably well, and a decent chunk of time to commit to the game over a weekend, well, a majority of people will log off. And they seem to be doing pretty much that. 

 

I don't know where the "1.X was always 15v15 humans"; I didn't play after about 1.3, I was too involved in other games at the time and frankly, didn't like it too much, but I'm given to understand that by late in the day (1.7-1.8-1.9) it was pretty much the same 40-50 die-hards playing each other all the time with plenty of bots, just like most games which struggle with player acquisition and retention. I've been one of those die-hards in several games, I just don't want this one to go that way too.

 

Whine-rant complete. 

 



Sassover #35 Posted 03 June 2018 - 07:09 PM

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View Postbjorn1984, on 01 June 2018 - 12:34 AM, said:

 

Heliborne is sh*t now. They got the AA way over buffed and the player base is about 4-5 people.

 

So in other words, it's about a quarter of the player base of this game.

 

 


mnbv_fockewulfe #36 Posted 03 June 2018 - 08:29 PM

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View Postshirime, on 03 June 2018 - 07:03 PM, said:

Spoiler

 

Yeah, I have to agree this "event" has rapidly become a bit of a bust.

 

With a select number of planes giving by far the greatest rewards combined with a farming goal for good players to be on long hours, the server population seems (admittedly subjectively) down even in relation to recent weekday populations. This is not a good sign when a primary goal at the moment should be increasing population. Personally saw a lot fewer people from the friends list/clan list on, and those that I did didn't stay on nearly as long as a few weeks ago. 

 

It's not clear to me if this is intended as a "This is how we're gonna do Attrition mode, get used to it" or if we're live testing the mode again, with the special pilots as "motivation", either way it doesn't seem to be currently be serving any long-term useful goals for the game. 

 

It does seem misguided to have a "winner-take-all" approach to the only meaningful reward for the "event"; I don't particularly care personally, but it does seem that if the goal is to test the mode I don't know why they wouldn't do as suggested above; make the reward about helping test the mode, not winning a competition. 1,000,000 PP, 100 games played, whatever.

 

I know this isn't WG's general MO, but people tend to react relatively rationally to situations like this. If the writing is on the wall that it's only worth playing IF you happen to have certain planes, experience and ability to use them reasonably well, and a decent chunk of time to commit to the game over a weekend, well, a majority of people will log off. And they seem to be doing pretty much that. 

 

I don't know where the "1.X was always 15v15 humans"; I didn't play after about 1.3, I was too involved in other games at the time and frankly, didn't like it too much, but I'm given to understand that by late in the day (1.7-1.8-1.9) it was pretty much the same 40-50 die-hards playing each other all the time with plenty of bots, just like most games which struggle with player acquisition and retention. I've been one of those die-hards in several games, I just don't want this one to go that way too.

 

Whine-rant complete. 

 

 

The Attrition gamemode event was just to tide everyone over during the delay in getting the "big progression" update slated for sometime this month.

So you're looking at the event wrong.

Second.

The game was slowly bleeding players ever since the exodus of 1.5-1.6. There's the key word, slowly. Populations would per up again during events and updates (average for 1.7 was 700 players, 1.9 600 dipping down to 500 when I was on during the typical down played quarters of the year, topped 1000 concurrent players during events), but since events were so far and few between, the gained population would quickly go away without further reasons to play. 
In short, more players than we have now. 


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SgtZak #37 Posted 03 June 2018 - 08:49 PM

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"1) This argument can be made because "only elite pilots" or people with large amounts of free time can get onto the top 10, so I guess you could say the system is biased towards dedicated players over skilled players (though in practice you need to be both if you wanted to climb and stay on the top 10 without working 24/7)."  - Reti…..

 

Agreed.  Once you realize its all about point farming.  Its just a matter of the number of games you can play. If you have a family, job, school etc. this may be difficult.



shirime #38 Posted 03 June 2018 - 11:41 PM

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View Postmnbv_fockewulfe, on 03 June 2018 - 08:29 PM, said:

 

The Attrition gamemode event was just to tide everyone over during the delay in getting the "big progression" update slated for sometime this month.

So you're looking at the event wrong.

Second.

The game was slowly bleeding players ever since the exodus of 1.5-1.6. There's the key word, slowly. Populations would per up again during events and updates (average for 1.7 was 700 players, 1.9 600 dipping down to 500 when I was on during the typical down played quarters of the year, topped 1000 concurrent players during events), but since events were so far and few between, the gained population would quickly go away without further reasons to play. 
In short, more players than we have now. 

 

Noted on the 1.7-1.9 history; but to be clear, I'm really more just looking at the event in terms of player base retention/expansion, and from what I'm seeing it ain't helping. So if the point is to "tide everyone over" until a "sometime" update, that's almost worse. Acknowledging my experience is a sample size of one, but queues felt longer this weekend than last, and fewer humans in the matches once I did drop. Saw a lot of friends and clan mates who have been regulars over the past six months play a lot less or not at all, and it's concerning.

 

I like the game, I personally like Attrition, even though there are clearly "planes you want to run" seemingly more so than Conquest. Wasn't competitive in the rankings as I have maybe 3-4 hours to spare on the weekends and also don't at all begrudge those who ran RB-17/Pancake flights all weekend to rack up top ten scores; smart and competitive players will do what gets results. It's up to the game design to make sure it doesn't become a "winner takes all" where only an unsustainably small player base is having fun and hence sticking around and playing regularly. 

 

I also get what the of pressure a seemingly stretched thin dev team is under. I've played several games to pretty much the bitter end of them because I'm one of those; I just think this game has promise, is still fun, and don't think it's at all ready to go, but I am hoping the trend lines aren't going the way they seem to be on a subjective level. I'd like to have this game back to 15 v 15 humans. 



mnbv_fockewulfe #39 Posted 04 June 2018 - 01:11 AM

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View Postshirime, on 03 June 2018 - 11:41 PM, said:

 

Noted on the 1.7-1.9 history; but to be clear, I'm really more just looking at the event in terms of player base retention/expansion, and from what I'm seeing it ain't helping. So if the point is to "tide everyone over" until a "sometime" update, that's almost worse. Acknowledging my experience is a sample size of one, but queues felt longer this weekend than last, and fewer humans in the matches once I did drop. Saw a lot of friends and clan mates who have been regulars over the past six months play a lot less or not at all, and it's concerning.

 

I like the game, I personally like Attrition, even though there are clearly "planes you want to run" seemingly more so than Conquest. Wasn't competitive in the rankings as I have maybe 3-4 hours to spare on the weekends and also don't at all begrudge those who ran RB-17/Pancake flights all weekend to rack up top ten scores; smart and competitive players will do what gets results. It's up to the game design to make sure it doesn't become a "winner takes all" where only an unsustainably small player base is having fun and hence sticking around and playing regularly. 

 

I also get what the of pressure a seemingly stretched thin dev team is under. I've played several games to pretty much the bitter end of them because I'm one of those; I just think this game has promise, is still fun, and don't think it's at all ready to go, but I am hoping the trend lines aren't going the way they seem to be on a subjective level. I'd like to have this game back to 15 v 15 humans. 

 

Which is counter-intuitive. Events should spike the game population, not decrease it. 
Even the failure that was the second axis vs allies event (in 1.9) brought in players for a good few weeks instead of bleeding them. 

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RoussosPhenomenon #40 Posted 04 June 2018 - 03:55 AM

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I do my very best to be as positive as possible, I love the game, however I also do believe that it would be unfair and unjust of me to not voice a concern if I have it, the positives of the game for me outweigh the negatives, I feel that the content I put out generally paints the game in a positive light, sure there are times when I or people I play with can get salty, but that's the same with anyone, to put it bluntly I couldn't remain 100% positive at all times so it's impossible of me to expect that of someone else.

In terms of looking up players stats, I guess those stats are available for us to look at so looking at them is fair game, I don't agree with player shaming unless they're toxic and undeserving of friendly treatment. But all in all I mostly agree with you, I love attrition and I have no problems with GAAs or bombers maybe German bombers need a buff as I don't believe in buffing/nerfing premiums, but ultimately I suck in a GAA so I'm not the best person to comment there.

Edited by RoussosPhenomenon, 04 June 2018 - 03:57 AM.





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