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Hs 129 B, Ju 87 G and Ju 88 P Proposed Buffs

Hs 129B Ju 87 G Stuka Ju 88 P Buff

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LMG #1 Posted 23 May 2018 - 05:11 AM

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So lately I've been pondering about three specific german GAAs that feel a bit lackluster: the Hs 129 B, the Ju 87 G Stuka and the Ju 88 P. I feel like these planes lag a bit too much when it comes to destroying ground targets, making them really subpar as actual GAAs compared to the rest of the line. While they're faster than their soviet counterparts, they can't really do much once they reach a sector. The Hs 129 B is the one that seems to suffer the least because it has access to bombs, but even then those bombs are rather inadecuate for the tier. The Ju 88 P comes second since it is basically an improved version of the Ju 87 G, which really struggles at getting anything done in any sector that's not a garrison or an airfield. These two planes are really good at shooting down enemy GAAs with their large cannons, but if there's none nearby they can't really make much progress, let alone help their team with sector capturing.

 

My proposal to the planes are the following:

  • Hs 129 B: Lower recharge time on the bombs (60 seconds possibly). The plane already has subpar 20mm cannons, no reargunner and very low maneuverability, all for slightly higher speed than the other GAAs of the tier. For comparison, the premium IL-2 (mod.) at the same tier gets 23mm cannons that far surpass the 20s of the Hs, while also supporting 4 bombs similar to those of the Hs, 8 rather lackluster rockets and a tailgun comparable to the Ju 87 G's. All for a little cut on its top speed, which can partially be reverted by unequipping the rockets, making it a better Hs 129 B than the actual Hs 129 B. With the quicker bomb reload, the Hs 129 B has more freedom to use its ordnance to make up for its lackluster weaponry, while also putting it more in-line with the later GAAs. When it comes to the 37mm cannon, well...

 

  • Junkers: Increased damage on the cannons so they can destroy targets in one less shot/volley (from 5 down to 4). The whole point of these planes is the big cannon with crazy range and damage, however when it comes to destroying ground targets they struggle once something armored shows up. This is partly because these cannons can easilly dispatch of one armored building from afar, but when there's a cluster of armored buildings close together they take their sweet time trying to shoot them down one by one through a lot of speed regulation and heat management. Other GAAs can simply dump their bombs and rockets on these buildings and take care of them all in one go. However, if the Junkers could reliably destroy armored buildings in quick succession, allowing them to properly deal with clusters of them, then they would properly become a force to be reckoned with instead of the planes that turnfight ground targets for a whole minute each. Especially the Ju 87 G that plays a lot worse than the Ju 88 P due to its lower rate of fire and faster heat buildup. It could also allow the Hs 129 B to use that 37mm cannon to some effect, considering you give up the only way to dispatch enemies on your tail by equipping it.

 

Aside of those 3 planes, I haven't found a GAA on either line that severely loses out when it comes to ground pounding. The Fw 189 C does not take over sectors as fast as the BSh-2, but it still has enough firepower to capture a sector while being able to put up a fight against other GAAs at the tier. The Me 265 has bombs with similar power as the ones on the soviet planes, with more speed, faster reload time on the bombs and decent firepower to boot. Even the Me 329 can try to keep up with the mightly IL-20 thanks to its faster bomb recharge time and 30mm cannons. I'd really like of these three GAAs could also give the same impression of being able to keep up, even if they sacrifice a bit of efficiency for better handling, just like the rest of the line :bajan:


Edited by LMG, 23 May 2018 - 10:52 PM.

This is my IL-2 (t). There are many like it, but this one is mine. :child:

SpiritFoxMY #2 Posted 23 May 2018 - 08:59 AM

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The 87 and 88P are made for that P2W ground attack ammo: 5 shots down to 3.

***

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Edward_Thache #3 Posted 23 May 2018 - 01:50 PM

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I know that if I mention historical configurations that I will be reminded that WoWP is an arcade game.  Believe me, you don't have to remind me.

 

However, The early prototype (HS 129 A-1) had the 20mm cannons and could carry (4) 50Kg bombs.

The HS 129 B1 had 30mm MK101 and I'm not sure about the bombs but I didn't see anything after the A-1 variant.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.  

 

The HS 129 B2 had the 30mm MK103 (twice the rpm of the MK101) or the 37mm Bordkanone cannon.

  

The B3 variant had some teeth with a 75mm Rheinmetall PaK 40.  That would work as a nice buff.  It was also a variant on the JU 88P.  

 

The JU 88P1 had the 75mm Rheinmetall, P2 had the twin 37mm, P4 had the 50mm, and the P5 (only on the drawing board) had the 88mm. Dayum!

 

I fly the 88P and the 87G more than any other planes in my inventory and your right, you spend way too much time over the target area as compared to the IL GAA planes.  I find them to be loads of fun to fly because of their limitations.  I also like to fly the HS 129 as an IL hunter.

 

Give us the 75mm, but I'll bet that the 75mm has a much lower effective range.    :)

 

I think the JU87G is as good as we can expect.


Edited by Edward_Thache, 23 May 2018 - 09:07 PM.


bjorn1984 #4 Posted 23 May 2018 - 10:49 PM

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Seems like some good ideas
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EM1O #5 Posted 05 June 2018 - 12:42 AM

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Stuka immediately generates images of screaming dive sirens and gigantic shrieking-whistle block-buster bomb from the belly.

Please give us the one-hit wonder!


Edited by EM1O, 05 June 2018 - 12:45 AM.

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AppleTank8 #6 Posted 15 June 2018 - 12:56 AM

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Really? I found taking down armored targets to take at most 2 passes in the Ju88P, as long as I start firing from long range.

vcharng #7 Posted 19 June 2018 - 05:28 AM

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Sounds good, these planes could really use a buff or two.

 

Edit: wait, Hs129 HAS any bombs?


Edited by vcharng, 19 June 2018 - 05:29 AM.


LMG #8 Posted 19 June 2018 - 05:46 AM

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View Postvcharng, on 19 June 2018 - 12:28 AM, said:

Sounds good, these planes could really use a buff or two.

 

Edit: wait, Hs129 HAS any bombs?

 

Yup, it has the option to equip the same bombs as the Fw 189 C, a 30mm cannon or one of the 37mm cannons that the Stuka gets. The bombs are pretty bad for the tier, especially now that the Duck can't even use the TNT consumable, but they're still better at dealing with armored buildings than the single cannon and give it a way to defend itself from enemies. With the cannon you're literally a target dummy once you catch a fighter on your tail. Which is why I proposed a buff to the bomb reload time and to the 37s for both planes. People want the big 7.5mm cannon, and while I'd also like to see what firepower that brings to the table, you're still stuck with a GAA that has no way of getting fighters off its tail :sceptic:

 

Edit: As a side note, if you run the IL-2 with the FAB-100, no rockets and the 23mm cannons you get a better Hs 129 B than the Duck. Same top speed, better forward weaponry, and better damage on the bombs with the same reload speed. Give the poor Duck something going for it already :( 


Edited by LMG, 19 June 2018 - 05:51 AM.

This is my IL-2 (t). There are many like it, but this one is mine. :child:

vcharng #9 Posted 19 June 2018 - 06:03 AM

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View PostLMG, on 19 June 2018 - 05:46 AM, said:

 

Yup, it has the option to equip the same bombs as the Fw 189 C, a 30mm cannon or one of the 37mm cannons that the Stuka gets. The bombs are pretty bad for the tier, especially now that the Duck can't even use the TNT consumable, but they're still better at dealing with armored buildings than the single cannon and give it a way to defend itself from enemies. With the cannon you're literally a target dummy once you catch a fighter on your tail. Which is why I proposed a buff to the bomb reload time and to the 37s for both planes. People want the big 7.5mm cannon, and while I'd also like to see what firepower that brings to the table, you're still stuck with a GAA that has no way of getting fighters off its tail :sceptic:

 

Edit: As a side note, if you run the IL-2 with the FAB-100, no rockets and the 23mm cannons you get a better Hs 129 B than the Duck. Same top speed, better forward weaponry, and better damage on the bombs with the same reload speed. Give the poor Duck something going for it already :( 

 

Oh, I thought it's common sense to put 37-mil in that slot, my bad...



LMG #10 Posted 19 June 2018 - 06:11 AM

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View Postvcharng, on 19 June 2018 - 01:03 AM, said:

Oh, I thought it's common sense to put 37-mil in that slot, my bad...

 

It's not bad per-se, but you're flying half-a-stuka at that point. You get only one 37mm cannon, so you have to output twice the firepower to get on the same level as the actual stuka, on top of getting no self-defense mechanism outside of head-ons and fancy flying. The only advantage of the Duck at that point is that it's still slightly faster with a longer boost and has the other guns to help it shoot at aircraft and farm for fires on buildings. Even then, running the bombs makes you faster, and the Stuka turns better anyways.

 

I also originally ran the Hs with the big 37, and hated every moment of it. After switching back to the bombs I was suddenly able to output some actual damage for once. However, if you want to get specialist on the Duck you're stuck with the 37


Edited by LMG, 19 June 2018 - 06:12 AM.

This is my IL-2 (t). There are many like it, but this one is mine. :child:

SpiritFoxMY #11 Posted 19 June 2018 - 09:47 AM

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They could classify the 37 as "external ordnance" and allow you to stick the RDX consumable on it :p 

***

But a truce to this mournful story

For death is a distant friend

So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end





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