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Unreasonable matchups


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Perrigrino #21 Posted 24 May 2018 - 03:36 AM

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View PostBobby_Tables, on 23 May 2018 - 11:23 PM, said:

Good God, I needed to navigate to https://www.reddit.com/r/aww/ after reading this.  Patents?  my oh my, lookit that cute doge!

 

​what the dog heard: "gdgad blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,....dg" :)

 

but look then there's this cate: https://www.reddit.c...ref_source=link



trikke #22 Posted 24 May 2018 - 12:46 PM

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View PostPerrigrino, on 23 May 2018 - 06:51 PM, said:

. Which explains why when one purchases a premium, the 1st battle in that vehicle is typically "easy", and get subsequently harder. 

 

which probably maybe extends to 1st battle in tech tree planes, too

 

which now explains why my 3rd battle in my new T6 ki-61 hien went downhill fast, after the first two were magically delicious 

 

it couldn't have been any fault of mine, because i never take any responsibility for my actions 

 


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nexxus73 #23 Posted 24 May 2018 - 03:40 PM

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I'm a new player .. good to read this post and see I'm not crazy ... why some matches seem to be crazy hard and some easy.  I've wondered many times how I seem to be following strat about capturing caps ASAP, then losing a main cap almost right after capturing it .. i assume to some heavy fighter (those really piss me off, dont know how best to destroy them) bombs the crap outta the cap from high above.  REALLY frustrating how the Bots can be SO freakin stupid.

LMG #24 Posted 24 May 2018 - 06:22 PM

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View Postnexxus73, on 24 May 2018 - 10:40 AM, said:

I'm a new player .. good to read this post and see I'm not crazy ... why some matches seem to be crazy hard and some easy.  I've wondered many times how I seem to be following strat about capturing caps ASAP, then losing a main cap almost right after capturing it .. i assume to some heavy fighter (those really piss me off, dont know how best to destroy them) bombs the crap outta the cap from high above.  REALLY frustrating how the Bots can be SO freakin stupid.

 

Welcome to the world of online gaming, where no two matches are alike and that's sort of the main selling point. I haven't seen many player-flown heavy fighters bombing from high altitude, only bots, and even then I think they tend to miss anyways. To get capture points from ground target kills you have to destroy every building within a ground target, so bots bombing from high above usually fail to get anything done unless there's a GAA around to clean up. What could be the case is that once the sector has been flipped and is unlocked, a few allies die over it by either careful planning from the enemy team or luck of the draw, making the sector go back around. That's one of the reasons I avoid going into actively-contested sectors on my GAA; they're too volatile for me to make a decisive impact :unsure:


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trikke #25 Posted 25 May 2018 - 12:03 PM

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View PostLMG, on 24 May 2018 - 02:22 PM, said:

That's one of the reasons I avoid going into actively-contested sectors on my GAA; they're too volatile for me to make a decisive impact :unsure:

 

excellent pro tip, brother


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Sturffan #26 Posted 26 May 2018 - 05:42 PM

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This is something that makes me shake my head constantly.  Here me out for a second.

 

We all talk about just group up with someone if you want to win.  Sure thing if you were lucky enough to come in and get a few games under your belt and do well.  However, how many new players come into the game, and meet the what seems like 10-20 same pilots who just proceed to stomp mudholes in them.  They aren't going to take the time to worry about even finding a friend to play with since most likely they'll just uninstall.  I understand that we all want the game to be a challenge.  However, the end goal imo is to have teams full of humans so we don't have all the bugs with the bots.  However, the game keeps making adjustments to make it more difficult since probably better than 90% of the people who play the game are high tier, and are pretty good at the game which is why they stuck with it.  Most new players come in and aren't even sure what the difference between an air defense aircraft, a bot, and a human and then we all come in at low tier to seal club since the game generally promotes this behavior with the daily quests, and at that point we all just target the one human player, and shoot them down over and over targeting them first always.  Sure it's a great tactic to win the game, but damn does anyone honestly feel it's a valid way to grow the playerbase? Anyways, just my 2 cents.  Just want to see a game that is thriving, and not just trying to get you to buy planes in the cash shop.

 


Edited by Sturffan, 26 May 2018 - 05:43 PM.


Pogo68 #27 Posted 26 May 2018 - 11:46 PM

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View Posttrikke, on 22 May 2018 - 04:28 AM, said:

it happens...  roll of the dice, that's all

 

RL battles were almost always mismatches 

 

In RL the Bf-110 was a turd and an A6M2-21 could out climb it so badly that in a race from take-off to 30,000 the Zero pilot would have enough time to eat a sandwich while waiting for the -110 to join him at 30,000ft.

In this game it's one of the better planes and the Zero can't match its climb rate or it's altitude.

 

 


Edited by Pogo68, 26 May 2018 - 11:46 PM.

DICTA BOELCKE for WoWP
    1. Try to secure the upper hand before attacking.
    2. Always continue with an attack you have begun
    3. Open fire only at close range, and then only when the opponent is squarely in your sights
    4. You should always try to keep your eye on your opponent, and never let yourself be deceived by ruses
    5. In any type of attack, it is essential to assail your opponent from behind
    6. If your opponent dives on you, do not try run away from his attack, but fly to meet it
    7. When over the enemy's lines, always remember your own line of retreat
    8. It is better to attack in groups of four or six. Avoid two aircraft attacking the same opponent

Perrigrino #28 Posted 27 May 2018 - 02:07 PM

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View PostSturffan, on 26 May 2018 - 05:42 PM, said:

This is something that makes me shake my head constantly.  Here me out for a second.

 

We all talk about just group up with someone if you want to win.  Sure thing if you were lucky enough to come in and get a few games under your belt and do well.  However, how many new players come into the game, and meet the what seems like 10-20 same pilots who just proceed to stomp mudholes in them.  They aren't going to take the time to worry about even finding a friend to play with since most likely they'll just uninstall.  I understand that we all want the game to be a challenge.  However, the end goal imo is to have teams full of humans so we don't have all the bugs with the bots.  However, the game keeps making adjustments to make it more difficult since probably better than 90% of the people who play the game are high tier, and are pretty good at the game which is why they stuck with it.  Most new players come in and aren't even sure what the difference between an air defense aircraft, a bot, and a human and then we all come in at low tier to seal club since the game generally promotes this behavior with the daily quests, and at that point we all just target the one human player, and shoot them down over and over targeting them first always.  Sure it's a great tactic to win the game, but damn does anyone honestly feel it's a valid way to grow the playerbase? Anyways, just my 2 cents.  Just want to see a game that is thriving, and not just trying to get you to buy planes in the cash shop.

 

 

some really good points that have been echoed numerous times by new players... many suggestions (viable or not)  have been made, like Co-Op battles such as in Ships, or excluding veterans from lower Tiers, anonymity, etc. The only did-incentive for experienced pilots so far is no tokens earned for 1st daily medals in T 1-3. An acknowledgement of the problem.



Perrigrino #29 Posted 27 May 2018 - 02:34 PM

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View Posttrikke, on 24 May 2018 - 12:46 PM, said:

 

which probably maybe extends to 1st battle in tech tree planes, too

 

which now explains why my 3rd battle in my new T6 ki-61 hien went downhill fast, after the first two were magically delicious 

 

it couldn't have been any fault of mine, because i never take any responsibility for my actions 

 

 

​absolutely, positively, probable (like dice 50/50), likely, maybe right! :) KARMA extends to all tearz.

 

check out what Eugene Pugach had to say about recent changes to MM more than a year ago (which is similar to, but distilled version of the first blog on MM years prior - what's curious is what they don't talk about):

 

http://blog.worldofw...sses-and-bots/ 

 

 

 

 


Edited by Perrigrino, 27 May 2018 - 03:22 PM.


Hellrazor61 #30 Posted 27 May 2018 - 05:04 PM

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So a friend of mine finally convinced me to download this game.  I downloaded it lastnight, and i'm not sure if when you're new it matches you differently but for my first 20 matches I went 17-3 with 190 planes shot down and 10 deaths.  On the last 5 matches i've lost all of them by huge margins and not killed more than 3 fighters per match, and have died 26x.  What changed?  Seems like after a while you get matched with people who are very good most of the time they were in a group, and were typically in a higher level plane than me.  While our equal level planes didn't have humans in them.  As soon as I see this I feel like I might as well just quit the game as they only seem to go for me, and not for the other planes.  Literally, what has been happening to me in these matches would probably get someone arrested in RL for mugging assault murder want me to go on? Needless to say this is not the game for me as the most important thing for me is that the matchmaking works, and doesn't just keep matching me against people who are way better than me.  Anyhow, not going to poopoo the game as i'm sure many enjoy it. Carry on!

Edited by Hellrazor61, 27 May 2018 - 05:08 PM.


LMG #31 Posted 27 May 2018 - 05:18 PM

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View PostHellrazor61, on 27 May 2018 - 12:04 PM, said:

So a friend of mine finally convinced me to download this game.  I downloaded it lastnight, and i'm not sure if when you're new it matches you differently but for my first 20 matches I went 17-3 with 190 planes shot down and 10 deaths.  On the last 5 matches i've lost all of them by huge margins and not killed more than 3 fighters per match, and have died 26x.  What changed?  Seems like after a while you get matched with people who are very good most of the time they were in a group, and were typically in a higher level plane than me.  While our equal level planes didn't have humans in them.  As soon as I see this I feel like I might as well just quit the game as they only seem to go for me, and not for the other planes.  Literally, what has been happening to me in these matches would probably get someone arrested in RL for mugging assault murder want me to go on? Needless to say this is not the game for me as the most important thing for me is that the matchmaking works, and doesn't just keep matching me against people who are way better than me.  Anyhow, not going to poopoo the game as i'm sure many enjoy it. Carry on!

 

What plane are you flying, and against what are you having problems? We could try to help you out if you tell us. And yes, atm due to the event there's quite a few people playing, so you're likely to bump into high-end players. The best I can say right now is to try and figure out your plane's strengths and the enemy's weaknesses. For example, my F4U-1 Corsair can't really survive a turnfight against Spitfires, but it's faster and hits pretty hard with those four 20mm cannons, so I can just do a quick pass on them and run away. If they give chase, I can turn around once I'm far enough and repeat the process. If they don't chase me, I can turn around sooner. Same with japanese fighters :great:


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Hellrazor61 #32 Posted 27 May 2018 - 05:24 PM

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Well I was flying the a6m1 when I finished. So you're telling me there are planes out there than are so good they can kill people when you're in a lower tier plane, and they are teaming you?  What keeps others from just flying that plane as well?  I was told that the Japanese lines were the best turn fighters, but maybe my buddy wasn't clear.  Anyways, it feels bad that as a new player I have to learn some tricks to keep playing the game.  Have the dev's considered putting out these specific ways you should play so new players won't get frustrated like me and just quit? I just wanted to fly some planes and shoot some planes down in what was told to me was an arcade flyer.

Hellrazor61 #33 Posted 27 May 2018 - 05:27 PM

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Also, is it just me or is the ratio of premium to non-premium planes way out of line?  There are hardly any non-premium planes in the game when you consider that apparently there are just as many if not more premium planes.  Looks like a bit fishy to me.

LMG #34 Posted 27 May 2018 - 06:12 PM

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View PostHellrazor61, on 27 May 2018 - 12:24 PM, said:

Well I was flying the a6m1 when I finished. So you're telling me there are planes out there than are so good they can kill people when you're in a lower tier plane, and they are teaming you?  What keeps others from just flying that plane as well?  I was told that the Japanese lines were the best turn fighters, but maybe my buddy wasn't clear.  Anyways, it feels bad that as a new player I have to learn some tricks to keep playing the game.  Have the dev's considered putting out these specific ways you should play so new players won't get frustrated like me and just quit? I just wanted to fly some planes and shoot some planes down in what was told to me was an arcade flyer.

 

Um... atm I believe there's not really an ultimate plane that's unstoppable, or at least not at the lower half of the tiers. There's pretty good planes, but they all have some sort of weakness. And there's nothing keeping anyone from playing any planes aside of what you're willing to grind (I personally grind what I find fun to use). The Japanese light fighters are indeed the best turnfighters. However, they also lack speed and are rather fragile, so you have to dodge incoming fire with them. It's not that you have to learn some tricks to keep playing, you learn those tricks to become a better pilot. That's how almost all games work. It lets you beat opponents that would normally beat you, and lets aircraft have a way to fight each other instead of just being there for target practice. And there's not that many complex mechanics you have to worry about atm; the most critical ones are: who turns better, who is faster and who can go higher. That's all there is to the most basic stuff you will use throughout the game for fighting aircraft.

 

The Devs have indeed stated that they want to implement more information for newer players, though we haven't heard what's to come yet. For now you can ask the people around the forums for advise, most of us have experienced a lot of what the game has to offer and are willing to help :honoring:


This is my IL-2 (t). There are many like it, but this one is mine. :child:

Hellrazor61 #35 Posted 27 May 2018 - 06:20 PM

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It's cool LMG I appreciate your honest feedback. I don't agree with it, but appreciate it.  So in 2 hours the game became completely unenjoyable, and i'm supposed to be ok with this?  I can't buy a new plane until I spend real money because i'm out of hanger slots, and can only sell 5 planes a day and i'm leveling thru them too fast.  So after 2 hours i'm supposed to understand the game well enough to not just get the crap kicked out of me?  I guess in some bizarro world that is a successful way to hook people onto a game I mean there are masochist's out there.  Anyways, as I said before this isn't the game for me.  

Hellrazor61 #36 Posted 27 May 2018 - 06:24 PM

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First 20 or so matches I was averaging 10k+ points and now I can't even break 1k.

 



trikke #37 Posted 27 May 2018 - 08:15 PM

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see!   i told you guys!   this game's way too hard to retain all of the new folks that want to try this flying thing!

 

but seriously... above tier 3, it's like playing three dimensional chess, but both players are able to move their chess pieces at the same time    literally three dimensions... 

 

the better pilots can create a constantly changing map in their brains, with all the other players' locations pinpointed, and each player ranked by threat level 

 

and they keep updating that brain map constantly, using the mini-map and continuous visual scans in every direction, including above and below

 

they've developed an internal timer that rings about every 5-6 seconds, forcing them to look over their shoulders, because they know that's all that's needed for another good pilot

to get the drop on 'em, drop in behind them with no way to shake them off

 

yep, you've graduated to the big leagues, after tier 3...  not at all the same game

 

today you became a man


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Sturffan #38 Posted 27 May 2018 - 08:55 PM

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My last post in here as i'm sick of all the git gud scrub stuff.  Tier IV is the big leagues huh?  Aren't there 10 tier's?  So I get to get my head smashed in for 6 more tiers.  The game currently has a contest going on that the top 10 will get a pilot that isn't able to be aquired thru any other means.  New players who have just hit tier 4 have no chance of winning this what-so-ever so it just continue's to spread the gap between those who started playing the game right away, and have every plane and maxed out pilots who drop down to seal club so it's easy to get another thing to just make them more untouchable.  So, it seems that since the games been out for a while, and seems like nobody plays it then perhaps   just telling new players they need to figure out how to stop getting their head stomped in by checking over their shoulder or capping points faster.  When I was going into area's and being jumped on immediately.  So, I suppose the tru trick is to just single out the human players from the start to make sure I win and the others have no fun.  I suppose that's what the playerbase and war gamming want for this game.  It just really makes no sense to me tho however.  I've spoken my piece i'm done.  Enjoy continuing to chase off new players by telling them they are doing something wrong.

 



trikke #39 Posted 28 May 2018 - 01:18 PM

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View PostSturffan, on 27 May 2018 - 04:55 PM, said:

My last post in here as i'm sick of all the git gud scrub stuff.  Tier IV is the big leagues huh?  Aren't there 10 tier's?  So I get to get my head smashed in for 6 more tiers. 

 

It just really makes no sense to me tho however.  I've spoken my piece i'm done.  Enjoy continuing to chase off new players by telling them they are doing something wrong.

 

you're at 2300 battles, you already know what you have to do to survive and win, brother 

 

there's no 'git gud' here for anyone at all... just a simplified explanation why this game is harder than most, with hints / tips to help new folks 

 

you and i both know that this becomes a much harder game above T3, and continues to challenge even the vets at the highest tiers

 

you and i, we wouldn't want it any other way, but many new folks will not be able to thrive as they go higher


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Pogo68 #40 Posted 28 May 2018 - 08:30 PM

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View PostLMG, on 27 May 2018 - 10:12 AM, said:

 

Um... atm I believe there's not really an ultimate plane that's unstoppable, or at least not at the lower half of the tiers. There's pretty good planes, but they all have some sort of weakness. And there's nothing keeping anyone from playing any planes aside of what you're willing to grind (I personally grind what I find fun to use). The Japanese light fighters are indeed the best turnfighters. However, they also lack speed and are rather fragile, so you have to dodge incoming fire with them. It's not that you have to learn some tricks to keep playing, you learn those tricks to become a better pilot. That's how almost all games work. It lets you beat opponents that would normally beat you, and lets aircraft have a way to fight each other instead of just being there for target practice. And there's not that many complex mechanics you have to worry about atm; the most critical ones are: who turns better, who is faster and who can go higher. That's all there is to the most basic stuff you will use throughout the game for fighting aircraft.

 

The Devs have indeed stated that they want to implement more information for newer players, though we haven't heard what's to come yet. For now you can ask the people around the forums for advise, most of us have experienced a lot of what the game has to offer and are willing to help :honoring:

 

If the devs really want to help newer players they should put out a flight/game manual that has the ranges for the rockets.

The guidance they've written is pretty much useless since they never really said what they were.

Back or 10 or more years ago, when Microprose was still publishing they had a manual that included information on the ranges of every weapon in the game.

For rockets they had the range, time of flight and speed of the rocket.

This allowed the player if he was some basic math skills and had access to a pencil and paper  to work out at what ranges to launch his/her rocket.

 

The better games like Falcon shipped with an over 100 page manual in a hardbound 3 ring binder with detailed instructions in the theory and use of both the weapons and the aircraft, it's behavior and each system that was modeled.

 


DICTA BOELCKE for WoWP
    1. Try to secure the upper hand before attacking.
    2. Always continue with an attack you have begun
    3. Open fire only at close range, and then only when the opponent is squarely in your sights
    4. You should always try to keep your eye on your opponent, and never let yourself be deceived by ruses
    5. In any type of attack, it is essential to assail your opponent from behind
    6. If your opponent dives on you, do not try run away from his attack, but fly to meet it
    7. When over the enemy's lines, always remember your own line of retreat
    8. It is better to attack in groups of four or six. Avoid two aircraft attacking the same opponent




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