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Two Mode Game Suggestion....(Again)


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soshootmenow #41 Posted 20 May 2018 - 04:11 PM

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View Posttrikke, on 18 May 2018 - 02:17 PM, said:

the bomber line might have been the death knell for DM, because nobody can really touch a high alt bomber in low tiers...  you'd have a thousand 1 vs 1 draws per day

 

and you'll have to purpose-spec your HF for altitude, which would effectively kill maim it for low alt

 

and you could never take that chance and run anything else but that particular HF, or your team could insta-lose, or insta-draw, i meant

 

on the other hand, all-HF battles are really fun, though... as we learned so well in alpha!   

 

edit:  (i miss GeorgePatton...   he was the only one of us with enough gravitas that could corral us all into alpha training rooms to test specific bugs, strategies, etc)

 

Hi trikke,

 

They just have to limit the bomber types for the lower tiers to perform at lower specs or make them along the same lines as the tiered fighters are.

(or simply not have them at all at the lower tiers)

But this is getting away from the main thrust of this thread which is to find a viable way to have 1.9 mode brought on as an addition.

2.0 is fine for new players or those that just want to log on and be able to play right away, but it basically goes nowhere fast.

New players are coming on but an equal number appear to simply bail after a short period of time (as I predicted months ago). All the while more and more of the OP's (the few that are left) are playing less and less and then leaving altogether.

We need to get the OP's back and give the new players a level to advance to so they are retained.



trikke #42 Posted 21 May 2018 - 01:02 PM

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View Postsoshootmenow, on 20 May 2018 - 11:11 AM, said:

Hi trikke,

 

They just have to limit the bomber types for the lower tiers to perform at lower specs or make them along the same lines as the tiered fighters are.

(or simply not have them at all at the lower tiers)

 

But this is getting away from the main thrust of this thread which is to find a viable way to have 1.9 mode brought on as an addition.

2.0 is fine for new players or those that just want to log on and be able to play right away, but it basically goes nowhere fast.

New players are coming on but an equal number appear to simply bail after a short period of time (as I predicted months ago). All the while more and more of the OP's (the few that are left) are playing less and less and then leaving altogether.

We need to get the OP's back and give the new players a level to advance to so they are retained.

 

hiya, shootme!

 

i'd hate to see bombers eliminated or badly nerfed at low tiers...

 

but then it occurred to me that we would be forced to choose only a HF or altitude-spec-built-only LF in every tier there are bombers, in case nobody else did

 

suppose you chose a GA, and you were the last one left on your team, with just a bomber left on the other team at any tier... untouchable, except he could try to bomb you, i guess

 

DM probably means only LFs and an occasional HF, i guess...  and with no caps at all?

 

i do love capping, it's like a mini-win that can be snatched away, if left without protection  (i guess that's exactly what a regular win is, now that i think about it)

 

but i do want everyone to have their own kind of flying fun, and if my particular favorite playstyle was stripped down, it would be shooting planes down, so...


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soshootmenow #43 Posted 22 May 2018 - 04:08 AM

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View Posttrikke, on 21 May 2018 - 01:02 PM, said:

 

hiya, shootme!

 

i'd hate to see bombers eliminated or badly nerfed at low tiers...

 

but then it occurred to me that we would be forced to choose only a HF or altitude-spec-built-only LF in every tier there are bombers, in case nobody else did

 

suppose you chose a GA, and you were the last one left on your team, with just a bomber left on the other team at any tier... untouchable, except he could try to bomb you, i guess

 

DM probably means only LFs and an occasional HF, i guess...  and with no caps at all?

 

i do love capping, it's like a mini-win that can be snatched away, if left without protection  (i guess that's exactly what a regular win is, now that i think about it)

 

but i do want everyone to have their own kind of flying fun, and if my particular favorite playstyle was stripped down, it would be shooting planes down, so...

 

Trikke,

How are you?

Bombers were not a 'bad' addition at all. My point being is the overall gameplay is not generally acceptable to all the players. 2.0 will not appeal to all of the OP's for any real length of time in my opinion. And I believe the actual numbers bear me out on this.

This is not a real criticism per se. It is simply pointing out that the numbers for the player base are nowhere even remotely near what they could be if WG would just provide the customers what they want.

The integration really just is not that big of a deal. What I am seeing is management dictating instead of responding. 'We cannot bring any version of 1.9 back in any way due to too many base system changes...' is to me, quite frankly, a patently absurd.....lie. Plain and simple. This is neither true nor a proper response.  This is a management exercise where a particular ideal/narrative/mindset is thrust upon everyone as some sort of unquestionable truth that cannot be altered, debated, or deviated from due to the dictum's from the unquestionable, wise, sacred and almighty, 'High Council'.

 What is being put forth is very much starting to sound like something out of Alinsky's (and others) playbook. 'Repeat the lie often enough and forcefully enough with narrative toting supportive 'logic' and most of the people will eventually begin to believe and repeat it as truth'.

Sorry. This person has a brain, his own considered/well thought out opinions, and is quite capable of critical thought.

If the CEO of WG called World of Warplanes staff tomorrow and stated that 1.9 will be implemented as an additional mode by the end of June or the ENTIRE staff will be summarily and irrevocably dismissed at that time without discussion or appeal.......well.....let's just say I am pretty sure it would get done by the current staff......or their new replacements if need be.

After some careful consideration......let me know if ANYONE (who (with sincere respect) has been in the workforce for a number of years and knows what's what) wants to take that bet.



CorvusCorvax #44 Posted 22 May 2018 - 01:05 PM

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The problem is the customers.  As long as they keep spending money, there is no incentive to change.  Unless someone can show WG that there is a gold mine in bringing back 1.x, there is zero incentive to add functionality to the game.

 

It may also be that WG has decided that the 2.0 style is the vision going forward, and that's just the way it is.  Going to 1.x from there is not moving the product forward, from a vision standpoint.



mnbv_fockewulfe #45 Posted 22 May 2018 - 07:55 PM

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View Postsoshootmenow, on 22 May 2018 - 04:08 AM, said:

 

Trikke,

How are you?

Bombers were not a 'bad' addition at all. My point being is the overall gameplay is not generally acceptable to all the players. 2.0 will not appeal to all of the OP's for any real length of time in my opinion. And I believe the actual numbers bear me out on this.

This is not a real criticism per se. It is simply pointing out that the numbers for the player base are nowhere even remotely near what they could be if WG would just provide the customers what they want.

The integration really just is not that big of a deal. What I am seeing is management dictating instead of responding. 'We cannot bring any version of 1.9 back in any way due to too many base system changes...' is to me, quite frankly, a patently absurd.....lie. Plain and simple. This is neither true nor a proper response.  This is a management exercise where a particular ideal/narrative/mindset is thrust upon everyone as some sort of unquestionable truth that cannot be altered, debated, or deviated from due to the dictum's from the unquestionable, wise, sacred and almighty, 'High Council'.

 What is being put forth is very much starting to sound like something out of Alinsky's (and others) playbook. 'Repeat the lie often enough and forcefully enough with narrative toting supportive 'logic' and most of the people will eventually begin to believe and repeat it as truth'.

Sorry. This person has a brain, his own considered/well thought out opinions, and is quite capable of critical thought.

If the CEO of WG called World of Warplanes staff tomorrow and stated that 1.9 will be implemented as an additional mode by the end of June or the ENTIRE staff will be summarily and irrevocably dismissed at that time without discussion or appeal.......well.....let's just say I am pretty sure it would get done by the current staff......or their new replacements if need be.

After some careful consideration......let me know if ANYONE (who (with sincere respect) has been in the workforce for a number of years and knows what's what) wants to take that bet.

 


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Ace_BOTlistic_Cosmo #46 Posted 22 May 2018 - 09:26 PM

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View Postmnbv_fockewulfe, on 22 May 2018 - 02:55 PM, said:

 

 


if the pilot's good, see, I mean, if he's really..sharp, he can barrel that baby in so low [he spreads his arms like wings and laughs],

you oughtta see it sometime, it's a sight. A big plane like a '52. VRROOM! There's jet exhaust, fryin' chickens in the barnyard.


soshootmenow #47 Posted 26 May 2018 - 04:09 PM

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View PostCorvusCorvax, on 22 May 2018 - 01:05 PM, said:

The problem is the customers.  As long as they keep spending money, there is no incentive to change.  Unless someone can show WG that there is a gold mine in bringing back 1.x, there is zero incentive to add functionality to the game.

 

It may also be that WG has decided that the 2.0 style is the vision going forward, and that's just the way it is.  Going to 1.x from there is not moving the product forward, from a vision standpoint.

 

Hi Corvus,

I am not all suggesting anywhere that they return to 1.9. The 2.0 mode can and has attracted new players. What I am pointing out is that it did so at the cost of all of the OP's and also having the new players essentially cycle in and then out. This does not retain the new players or actually start to build some real numbers.

As for the incentive for WoWP to ADD 1.9 as an additional mode.....they would have a known and predictable amount of OP's that would return almost immediately. 1.9 is already developed so the 'cost' (pointing to all of the investment that they made in 2.0) would be negligible.

Most businesses that I could think of would most happily increase their customer base by several thousands for negligible costs. Make the 1.9 a Premium only mode thus generating revenue.

WoWP could even do battles and contests pitting the 1.9 players and 2.0 players against each other in an alternating format. Teams would play one battle in 2.0 and then the next in 1.9. Make it a 'best overall team' sort of thing. There would be competition, friendly rivalry, smack-talk and put downs.....but overall there would be more players, interest, and retention!

If players have OPTIONS then WG might start seeing more players using BOTH versions. Again this would simply just be another thing that promotes the game and the interest in it.

2.0 did not entirely fail....but it most certainly did NOT succeed like they thought it would.

It also most certainly did not 'fix' everything 'wrong' with the game in one shot like they thought.

If the player and battles-played numbers were actually anything to write home about they would not have them still hidden almost EIGHT MONTHS after the deployment.

 I actually ran into a person the other day that I see from time to time in passing. Turns out.....SHE.....used to play 1.9 for hours on end (and this is a young and pretty girl) but now hates the new 2.0 and will not play anymore.


 


 



CorvusCorvax #48 Posted 26 May 2018 - 04:57 PM

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View Postsoshootmenow, on 26 May 2018 - 04:09 PM, said:

 

Hi Corvus,

I am not all suggesting anywhere that they return to 1.9.


 


 

Nor am I, anywhere.  If the vision is not toward a 1.x style game, then there is zero incentive to add a mode.  If there is no money to be made, then there is zero incentive to add a mode.  I played 1.x.  I have played 2.x.  Each has attractions.

 

I'm not sure if the client side and server side addition of mode is as simple as people seem to think it is.  The integration of the two modes might actually be very difficult, we just don't know.



mnbv_fockewulfe #49 Posted 26 May 2018 - 05:21 PM

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View PostCorvusCorvax, on 26 May 2018 - 04:57 PM, said:

Nor am I, anywhere.  If the vision is not toward a 1.x style game, then there is zero incentive to add a mode.  If there is no money to be made, then there is zero incentive to add a mode.  I played 1.x.  I have played 2.x.  Each has attractions.

 

I'm not sure if the client side and server side addition of mode is as simple as people seem to think it is.  The integration of the two modes might actually be very difficult, we just don't know.

 

It actually isn't as difficult as they make it out to be.

All they need to do is set up a copy of all the planes performance parameters on their server, and the aircrafts.xml from 1.9 set up in a parallel nations folder (i.e. a German 2.0 folder and a German 1.9 folder) the info in these folders will be essentially the same except one references the different performances of the two modes of fighting. 

However, the changes to the flight mechanics and gun mechanics would be harder to setup parallels for. 

This is what I believe the super test should be for. 

Testing combinations of what was added as new to 2.0 and see how compatible it is to 1.9. (i.e. 1.9 flight/performance mechanics and 2.0 gun mechanics)


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trikke #50 Posted 27 May 2018 - 11:59 AM

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View Postsoshootmenow, on 26 May 2018 - 12:09 PM, said:

....

Turns out.....SHE.....used to play 1.9 for hours on end (and this is a young and pretty girl) but now hates the new 2.0 and will not play anymore.

 

man, i was right with ya 100%, until i got down to this last line...   now i'm questioning the rest of it!     j/k


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soshootmenow #51 Posted 28 May 2018 - 03:30 PM

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View Postmnbv_fockewulfe, on 26 May 2018 - 05:21 PM, said:

 

It actually isn't as difficult as they make it out to be.

All they need to do is set up a copy of all the planes performance parameters on their server, and the aircrafts.xml from 1.9 set up in a parallel nations folder (i.e. a German 2.0 folder and a German 1.9 folder) the info in these folders will be essentially the same except one references the different performances of the two modes of fighting.

However, the changes to the flight mechanics and gun mechanics would be harder to setup parallels for.

This is what I believe the super test should be for.

Testing combinations of what was added as new to 2.0 and see how compatible it is to 1.9. (i.e. 1.9 flight/performance mechanics and 2.0 gun mechanics)

 

Hello focke,

Yes, I believe you are correct. The indications here are since they were able to run both versions simultaneously on the live game when they conducted the poll before the cutover it is already proven that it could be run that way. Technically it has already been done! They proved it themselves! Granted they were only using a single map for the 2.0 test at the time so a full load version would be substantially larger but.....meh.....it is not like there is a shortage of many much larger-load games out there already.

Again I still come back to the issue of them jamming this down everyone's throat and making Bee....S..... excuses. It seems more and more of a case of   'I don't want to because I said so'  as opposed to an actual substantial reason. These people are supposed to be adults.....not petulant children. A collegiate effort and approach by WoWP instead of an obstinate dictatorial one very well could be a better deal all around.

Put the 1.9 mode back up as a second mode and let's see if we can all work together to actually improve the game while giving everyone what they want. It would seem to be a fair and equitable solution that could actually turn out to be a success story.

It would seem to me however that the stat pages would have some difficulty as the two versions appear to measured under different parameters and I am not so sure that individual performance in either game would translate to meaningful stats for the pilots on a single page.

Perhaps a simple 'side-by-side' statistic page could be used. One for each version. This would show the players preference and their relative performance statistics in each version that is played. Clan ratings (and the Clans themselves) would be much more of an issue in either case regardless as that would necessitate some sort of combination of the stats. A comparative worth ranking placed on the individual statistic numbers in order to produce a Clan rating perhaps? Just a thought that popped up.....will have to think about this area some more.


 


Edited by soshootmenow, 28 May 2018 - 03:39 PM.


mnbv_fockewulfe #52 Posted 28 May 2018 - 03:46 PM

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The way the open test worked was by having two concurrent clients.

They would still need two different servers to run the game as two clients. 


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soshootmenow #53 Posted 28 May 2018 - 04:21 PM

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View Postmnbv_fockewulfe, on 28 May 2018 - 03:46 PM, said:

The way the open test worked was by having two concurrent clients.

They would still need two different servers to run the game as two clients.

 

Not so sure about that. I believe that is the way the DID do it previously....but a server does not necessarily need to be a single mode just dedicated to one function deal. A single server can run two concurrent clients. They just did not set it up that way at the time because they were using the other box as a development platform. Might just require a few upgrades.

(and since they already had a second box.......parts scrounging anyone???).


 



CorvusCorvax #54 Posted 28 May 2018 - 04:35 PM

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So, now we're still back to the "vision" thing.  While I might not agree that 2.x is the best way forward, it may well be that WG has decided that's the way they are going.  Their thinking on this stuff has always been pretty opaque, but I have an idea that the way they are running this mode encourages people to spend money over 1.x.  And real money, in hand right now, wins.  If you can figure out how to get more money later, cool.  But cash money in hand right now?  Can't be beat.

 



Ace_BOTlistic_Cosmo #55 Posted 28 May 2018 - 07:30 PM

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View PostCorvusCorvax, on 28 May 2018 - 11:35 AM, said:

So, now we're still back to the "vision" thing.  While I might not agree that 2.x is the best way forward, it may well be that WG has decided that's the way they are going.  Their thinking on this stuff has always been pretty opaque, but I have an idea that the way they are running this mode encourages people to spend money over 1.x.  And real money, in hand right now, wins.  If you can figure out how to get more money later, cool.  But cash money in hand right now?  Can't be beat.

 

 

except I'm not sure that here on the NA server that they really are making a net profit

and there is very little to indicate that the player base is able to support this game mode

let alone make money...

currently we have:

no online player count, WG turned off

no hall of fame time frame search available, WG just turned off

very low player vs bot counts per game, WG turned 75% Vets off with 2.0

.

.

.

My guess is someone is making poor decisions over there and no willing to admit it...

so, here we are...

a mess,

 

 

 

 


if the pilot's good, see, I mean, if he's really..sharp, he can barrel that baby in so low [he spreads his arms like wings and laughs],

you oughtta see it sometime, it's a sight. A big plane like a '52. VRROOM! There's jet exhaust, fryin' chickens in the barnyard.


soshootmenow #56 Posted 29 May 2018 - 05:36 PM

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View PostAce_BOTlistic_Cosmo, on 28 May 2018 - 07:30 PM, said:

 

except I'm not sure that here on the NA server that they really are making a net profit

and there is very little to indicate that the player base is able to support this game mode

let alone make money...

currently we have:

no online player count, WG turned off

no hall of fame time frame search available, WG just turned off

very low player vs bot counts per game, WG turned 75% Vets off with 2.0

.

.

.

My guess is someone is making poor decisions over there and no willing to admit it...

so, here we are...

a mess,

 

 

 

 

 

I am posting this (with permission) from a message I received from x_Warhog_x (DRACS).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Great post man I still lurk on the forums just to try and keep up with things here and you were spot on before i left their were a lot of us OPs saying the same thing and i wish they would bring back 1.9 some way it would bring me back in a flash I miss you guys and all the awesome fights we had,I cant post on the open forums because i refuse to play even 5 games in this crap 2.0 but just wanted to say it was a great read not that I think they will ever listen.

But anyway good hunting out there.....


Ace_BOTlistic_Cosmo #57 Posted 30 May 2018 - 10:51 PM

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View Postsoshootmenow, on 29 May 2018 - 12:36 PM, said:

 

I am posting this (with permission) from a message I received from x_Warhog_x (DRACS).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Great post man I still lurk on the forums just to try and keep up with things here and you were spot on before i left their were a lot of us OPs saying the same thing and i wish they would bring back 1.9 some way it would bring me back in a flash I miss you guys and all the awesome fights we had,I cant post on the open forums because i refuse to play even 5 games in this crap 2.0 but just wanted to say it was a great read not that I think they will ever listen.

But anyway good hunting out there.....

 

yep...

I don't know how he ever made it as a Drac...

warhog sucked at the game and was amazing on the forums...

hehe,

for most Dracs it's just the opposite

just goes to show that statistics almost always have an outlier

:trollface:

.

.

.

let's see if that gets him to play 5 or 10 or whatever... hehe

 

 


if the pilot's good, see, I mean, if he's really..sharp, he can barrel that baby in so low [he spreads his arms like wings and laughs],

you oughtta see it sometime, it's a sight. A big plane like a '52. VRROOM! There's jet exhaust, fryin' chickens in the barnyard.


mnbv_fockewulfe #58 Posted 31 May 2018 - 12:59 AM

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View PostAce_BOTlistic_Cosmo, on 30 May 2018 - 10:51 PM, said:

 

yep...

I don't know how he ever made it as a Drac...

warhog sucked at the game and was amazing on the forums...

hehe,

for most Dracs it's just the opposite

just goes to show that statistics almost always have an outlier

:trollface:

.

.

.

let's see if that gets him to play 5 or 10 or whatever... hehe

 

 

 

15 battles. 
You just needed to add your two figures together. :child:

 

edit: I did this for my own benefit because I'm terrible at simple arithmetic.  


Edited by mnbv_fockewulfe, 31 May 2018 - 02:05 AM.

Be sure to check your logic privileges before posting on the forum.

 

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Ace_BOTlistic_Cosmo #59 Posted 31 May 2018 - 02:00 AM

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View Postmnbv_fockewulfe, on 30 May 2018 - 07:59 PM, said:

View PostAce_BOTlistic_Cosmo, on 30 May 2018 - 10:51 PM, said:

 

yep...

I don't know how he ever made it as a Drac...

warhog sucked at the game and was amazing on the forums...

hehe,

for most Dracs it's just the opposite

just goes to show that statistics almost always have an outlier

:trollface:

.

.

.

let's see if that gets him to play 5 or 10 or whatever... hehe

 

 

15 battles. 
You just needed to add your two figures together. :child:

if the pilot's good, see, I mean, if he's really..sharp, he can barrel that baby in so low [he spreads his arms like wings and laughs],

you oughtta see it sometime, it's a sight. A big plane like a '52. VRROOM! There's jet exhaust, fryin' chickens in the barnyard.


soshootmenow #60 Posted 01 June 2018 - 04:53 PM

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View PostCorvusCorvax, on 28 May 2018 - 04:35 PM, said:

So, now we're still back to the "vision" thing.  While I might not agree that 2.x is the best way forward, it may well be that WG has decided that's the way they are going.  Their thinking on this stuff has always been pretty opaque, but I have an idea that the way they are running this mode encourages people to spend money over 1.x.  And real money, in hand right now, wins.  If you can figure out how to get more money later, cool.  But cash money in hand right now?  Can't be beat.

 

 

I have been thinking about what you stated above. It seems to me that bringing back all of the OP's with a product that they desire as well as having the OPTION to be able to play 2.0 should they so choose would most certainly bring in more revenue. Especially if you consider that (in my original post statement) they make the 1.9 level a Premium or Pay only option in order to advance to it after a certain number of battles in 2.0 (for the new players....not the OP's that have already put in the time).

Just don't 'half-a*s' it. If they put up a sort-of 1.9 version with the pathetic flight characteristics/UI/Sound effects/etc... of the 2.0 mode it is not going to bring back the OP's or retain anyone who wants a more advanced level. Which this game currently lacks. Even WarThunder has a full realism mode I believe but they use a different premise/model so what they do wont work here.

This way it would also expand both the actual customer base as well as the potential customer base. It simply would be a larger pool of both actual and potentially paying customers.

It would also probably start to give the game some real traction and more options for advertisement and marketing. People would start to see a considerable increase in the number of human players given the amount of time the OP's put in on the game over a daily/weekly/monthly basis. (I mean really.....who wants yet more bots!!??).

WoWP would not longer have to hide their player stats. Instead they would be able to use that as a promotional tool.

They could even start their own YouTube series of 'Best Battles' published weekly with the most entertaining battles with a large number of human players.

Sheesh!.....I am not even in the gaming business and I can come up with this stuff!

WG....You have had nearly three quarters and it is not going all that well. Give us what we want and have been repeatedly asking for. We quite apparently are all willing to work with you on this.

How about you start working WITH US!!??.

What you have now is not working to the level you thought it would.

C'mon Man!


Edited by soshootmenow, 01 June 2018 - 04:55 PM.





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