445 replies to this topic

[mnbv_fockewulfe]

jack_wdw, on 21 June 2018 - 01:10 PM, said:

I don't think the lost 1.9 players would return in great numbers.

Remember that they also had lost a big population after the 1.5 update.
In the end, v1.9 had almost all the issues fixed (that made people leave with 1.5), but eventually 1.9 didn't succeed in getting that lost population back. (not really something to wonder about, with 0.0 advertising)

I do believe 1.9 can re-emerge, but they have to sell the source first and then it can make a comeback as a community game, free of al ties with persha and WG. (more or less what the chinese have).

 

I would contribute to buying the source code.

[soshootmenow]

jack_wdw, on 21 June 2018 - 01:10 PM, said:

I don't think the lost 1.9 players would return in great numbers.

Remember that they also had lost a big population after the 1.5 update.
In the end, v1.9 had almost all the issues fixed (that made people leave with 1.5), but eventually 1.9 didn't succeed in getting that lost population back. (not really something to wonder about, with 0.0 advertising)

I do believe 1.9 can re-emerge, but they have to sell the source first and then it can make a comeback as a community game, free of al ties with persha and WG. (more or less what the chinese have).

 

ANY amount of numbers would be an improvement over what is there now.

And I heard rumors that the Southern China server at least was still running 1.9 at least as of a few months ago.

Does anyone have any further info on that??

The ping would be horrific for me even with my gigabit connection.....but still....

If they are running independently and still have 1.9 live (or are more open to the idea)......maybe we could approach THEM with this idea or modification of it.

Maybe they might be more interested in supporting 1.9 version or variation in the NA/EU....if for no other reason than they have lots of money.....AND they like sticking it to the Russians.

Since WG for everywhere else steadfastly & repetitively ignores their player base.

[soshootmenow]

FOUND IT!!!!

Courtesy of death2019

I don't remember if I shared this info here before (dont think so) but here is what I came up with. I have posted death2019's comment from another thread as well as the links he provided at the bottom of this post.

This appears to be a situation where a company named kongzhong in southern China paid WG for a separate license that includes all three games. I tried the link for the download page and it appears to be still live! From what I can read (about a total of 8 words and numbers on the entire page) it is still 1.9.4. There does not appear to be any option to change the language for the pages.

There is some additional information on the company from an old 2015 post and replies here:  http://forum.worldofwarplanes.com/index.php?/topic/38273-regions-accessibility/

In addition, if you do a google search with this query:  'world of warplanes 1.9 still running on china server'   there are several related topics including a tutorial on how to load and run the game on their server.

Doing some looking around at the company and seeing what I can find on the license agreement structure. I find that they were actually able to pull this off VERY interesting to say the least. You never know. There might be the basis of an idea in there or another option for all of us.

 

There are five servers for WOWP, RA, EU, NA and two CN.

The south CN server is 1.9.4

ping will be 240~320, and the LVMP does not work, everything shows in Chinese.

 

Pictures about CN south server:

https://i.imgur.com/Yw75Dej.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/2PoR738.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/4xsGM0d.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/ESQ3KfS.jpg

Download address :

http://wowp.kongzhong.com/downloads/

 

If anyone wants to install 1.9.4, if anyone has a problem with Chinese, I would love to support help.

By the way, I am not interested in 2.0 at all.

 

Edited by death2019, 15 October 2017 - 07:39 PM.

 

 

 

[soshootmenow]

      Update.....re: Kongzhong / WG Licensing Agreement

Could not find much in the way of public information on the licensing agreement costs and structure.....UNTIL......I happened to poke around some standard government filings.

     Lo and Behold......There is quite a bit of actual CONCRETE information to be found (for ONCE) that was entered into public domain from the responses to a SEC query regarding the deal.

  The agreement was set forth roughly eight years ago for an initial three year term. I have started to go through it. Certain deposits (which were refunded as the licensing agreement was put in effect) are listed.

Operating parameters are described in relation to using WG's resources at the sole cost of the licensee but I have not seen anything regarding (so far) as to what those actual costs are.

The link is below. It is actually a pretty easy read overall. Nothing too long or complicated. Spelled out in mostly easy to understand terms.

I will post some of the relevant sections after I get some time to go through this thing.

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1285137/000114420414011590/filename1.htm

Edited by soshootmenow, 26 June 2018 - 12:27 AM.

[soshootmenow]

I have gone over a 'general' review of the license agreement. Although this appears to be the 'original' agreement that initially covers just the World of Tanks game certain things can logically be deduced and inferred for any subsequent game such as World of Warplanes.

Overall Kongzhong is basically running the game on their equipment and through their network communications provider.

They provide a set license fee to WG. Tellingly however is a clause in the agreement listed below.

 

4.29      The Company has the exclusive right in its sole discretion to set prices of the WOT's services and collateral merchandise (such as virtual currency and items, premium accounts, etc.) in the PRC, Hong Kong and Macau.

 

   In other words this basically says that regardless of the price of the licensing Kongzhong can essentially set their own pricing structure and keep or subsidize any difference at their sole discretion.

   Of even greater importance are the below options (especially what is written in section 4.10) that Kongzhong has which I would assume apply to all of the games licensed through WG.

 

4.12       The Company has the right to request updates and add-ons specific for the PRC, Hong Kong and Macau, and parties agree to work in good faith to determine which of such updates and add-ons must be developed by WarGaming

4.10          (Sorry about the font, paste and italics changes here.....the copy and paste of the document is screwing up the format).

WarGaming will offer to the Company further updates and add-ons, for the WOT. However, the Company at its sole discretion, is not obligated to utilize any of these updates or add-ons as part of the WOT in the PRC, Hong Kong and Macau

[soshootmenow]

(....cont. from above)

 

    The clause in section 4.10 specifies that Kongzhong DOES NOT have to implement ANY update from WG for the game(s) that they do not believe will be of benefit to the player base that Kongzhong is marketing to under the licensed areas (PRC, Hong Kong, Macau).

  To date, they have exercised this option by not implementing the 2.0 release and appear to still be running 1.9.4 as I found when I went to their download page.

(I am beginning to see a possible alternative or addition to my suggestion in this thread.....but then again, developing a working idea was the whole point of this.).

 

    I am going through the sections to try to determine the prices on this. The pricing structure for the agreement is not placed specifically as such in the document as that was not the point of the SEC query in general terms. The query was only in regards to whether or not and how certain revenue should be reported in relation to this deal.

The responses provided do seem to offer some information from what I can see but I am not too sure of this yet.

  There is a reference to $500,000 both for a refundable deposit and for that same amount being the license agreement cost in total. The initial term of the agreement appears to be for 3 years  (so $166,666/yr  ???  seems like a weird annual number to me for business deal....but hey.....Russian company deal with a PRC company....it is possible if they just put it on the books at a 500k cost employing different accounting methods).

It also makes reference to a revenue share agreement to be paid to WG but not before or until the licensing costs have been recouped.

   Looking into this further and also seeing if I can find any reported revenue information on Kongzhong specifically for revenue generated from WG games. (Kongzhong is a gaming platform provider for multiple games, not just the one's from WG).

Edited by soshootmenow, 27 June 2018 - 03:27 PM.

[soshootmenow]

focke, I did look for anything regarding your suggestion on 21, June regarding purchase of the source code. I grant you that the reference I found below in the (now eight year old agreement) would seem to prohibit any such idea....I will also admit that the 1.9 game version is not currently in effect. So they might be open to such a thing now (given their repetitive statements that they are just going with 2.0 versions from now on).....(heh heh.....using their own words against them.....now wouldn't that be funny).

 

 

 

7.4          The Company shall not modify, adapt, reverse engineer or decompile the WOT without the prior written consent of WarGaming except as expressly permitted by law. All and any modifications and alterations to the WOT and any intellectual property rights therein shall belong to and shall vest in WarGaming on creation. the Company agrees and understands that it shall not use the WarGaming IP, including without limitation any trademarks, in any way other than in the furtherance of and pursuant to this agreement and further agrees, understands, and acknowledges that it acquires no rights in or to such trademarks, other intellectual property or materials by its adoption, translation or use thereof in connection with the WOT so that all intellectual property rights and goodwill therein shall accrue to the WarGaming and that WarGaming is free to use any such trademarks in connection with any other products or services at any time, subject to the provisions of this agreement.

[soshootmenow]

re: Licensing Costs.

This is from one of the analysis/conclusion sections regarding the cost. Still going through back sections of the filing for further information on this.

 

The gross revenue represents the total amounts received through all payment channels from the WOT players, and the amounts vary from period to period. As indicated per clauses 4.29 of the license agreement, the Company has the sole latitude in setting the prices for its WOT services, and the Company does not earn a fixed amount of revenue.   The Company is obligated to pay the license payment of US$500,000 to WarGaming regardless of how much revenue is generated by the Company by WOT players. After Gross Revenue reaches US$500,000, the Company is obligated to pay predetermined percentages of Gross Revenue to WarGaming. Since the Company has the sole latitude to establish pricing and determines the amounts charged to its WOT players, this indicates the Company is not acting as an agent of WarGaming.

[mnbv_fockewulfe]

So could the chinese 1.9 version of WOWP be developed in a new direction now?

[soshootmenow]

ahhh.....good point. I actually had the same thought and I found these items in the contract with the analysis below that.

 

-----

 

 

4.11      WarGaming shall submit all updates and add-ons for the WOT in English language; the Company will translate all such updates and components to Chinese using localization kit at its own cost and will provide localized assets for the WarGaming to integrate at WarGaming's sole cost; the Company shall be responsible for final testing of such localization integration.

 

4.12       The Company has the right to request updates and add-ons specific for the PRC, Hong Kong and Macau, and parties agree to work in good faith to determine which of such updates and add-ons must be developed by WarGaming.

------

 

 

 

 

 

- The Company obtains all updates and add-ons for the WOT in English language from WarGaming and the Company translates all such updates and components into Chinese in order to localize the WOT for the PRC market. In practice, the Company conducts this localization process with WarGaming's technical assistance but is not required to obtain approval from WarGaming before releasing the updates to the public. In addition, the Company will specifically request for updates and add-ons that are tailored for the WOT players in the PRC. Overall, the Company has the right to determine if it will utilize such updates and add-ons and it is responsible for designing and specifying those update and add-ons to satisfy the needs of its WOT players in the PRC.

 

- Although the Company may not modify the WOT content without the prior written consent of WarGaming, the purpose of this contractual restriction is to protect the interest of WarGaming to avoid any copyright infringement by the Company. In practice, the Company has designed the Chinese Tank Tree, which is considered an important factor in arousing the interest of WOT players in the PRC, and WarGaming then programmed the feature into the WOT. In addition, the Company performs all the activities related to hosting the WOT platform, WOT community management, customer support, etc. as detailed in the above section to fulfill its services obligation to its WOT players. This clause does not preclude the Company from having the sole and exclusive right to operate and sell the WOT in the PRC market and make quality in-game items, upgrades, enhancements, and localized updates and improvements if necessary. Accordingly, the Company performs part of the service related to the players’ overall WOT experience that provides much more value in addition to the marketing and distribution of the WOT.

 

Conclusion:

 

 

Although the Company may not change the WOT content itself, it is highly involved in the modification of WOT content. In addition, as mentioned in the section "The Entity Is the Primary Obligor in the Arrangement" above, the Company performs substantially all of the critical elements of its online gaming services for fulfillment of service obligations to WOT players.

[mnbv_fockewulfe]

soshootmenow, on 27 June 2018 - 10:23 PM, said:

ahhh.....good point. I actually had the same thought and I found these items in the contract with the analysis below that.

 

-----

 

 

4.11      WarGaming shall submit all updates and add-ons for the WOT in English language; the Company will translate all such updates and components to Chinese using localization kit at its own cost and will provide localized assets for the WarGaming to integrate at WarGaming's sole cost; the Company shall be responsible for final testing of such localization integration.

 

4.12       The Company has the right to request updates and add-ons specific for the PRC, Hong Kong and Macau, and parties agree to work in good faith to determine which of such updates and add-ons must be developed by WarGaming.

------

 

 

 

 

 

- The Company obtains all updates and add-ons for the WOT in English language from WarGaming and the Company translates all such updates and components into Chinese in order to localize the WOT for the PRC market. In practice, the Company conducts this localization process with WarGaming's technical assistance but is not required to obtain approval from WarGaming before releasing the updates to the public. In addition, the Company will specifically request for updates and add-ons that are tailored for the WOT players in the PRC. Overall, the Company has the right to determine if it will utilize such updates and add-ons and it is responsible for designing and specifying those update and add-ons to satisfy the needs of its WOT players in the PRC.

 

- Although the Company may not modify the WOT content without the prior written consent of WarGaming, the purpose of this contractual restriction is to protect the interest of WarGaming to avoid any copyright infringement by the Company. In practice, the Company has designed the Chinese Tank Tree, which is considered an important factor in arousing the interest of WOT players in the PRC, and WarGaming then programmed the feature into the WOT. In addition, the Company performs all the activities related to hosting the WOT platform, WOT community management, customer support, etc. as detailed in the above section to fulfill its services obligation to its WOT players. This clause does not preclude the Company from having the sole and exclusive right to operate and sell the WOT in the PRC market and make quality in-game items, upgrades, enhancements, and localized updates and improvements if necessary. Accordingly, the Company performs part of the service related to the players’ overall WOT experience that provides much more value in addition to the marketing and distribution of the WOT.

 

Conclusion:

 

 

Although the Company may not change the WOT content itself, it is highly involved in the modification of WOT content. In addition, as mentioned in the section "The Entity Is the Primary Obligor in the Arrangement" above, the Company performs substantially all of the critical elements of its online gaming services for fulfillment of service obligations to WOT players.

 

So in theory, Clan Wars could be added to the Chinese server of WOWP? And stuff like new plane lines.

Edited by mnbv_fockewulfe, 27 June 2018 - 10:44 PM.

[soshootmenow]

Generally speaking, I believe the short answer is Yes.

The contract (bear in mind that is what it was....not necessarily what it is.....or could be made to be) specifies changes unique to the PRC, Hong Kong, & Macau get a 'best effort' to be developed.

I believe there is some relatively broad latitude regarding those specifics. They already did develop a Chinese line in WOT specifically mentioned to further the marketing in their home environment.

Also they specifically did NOT convert to 2.0 for World of Warplanes because they did not believe it to be in the best interests of their market (well golly gee whiz Batman.....you think they actually read the customer forums in the other regions!!??    Holy Common Sense, Batman!).

[Perrigrino]

soshootmenow, on 27 June 2018 - 11:39 PM, said:

Generally speaking, I believe the short answer is Yes.

The contract (bear in mind that is what it was....not necessarily what it is.....or could be made to be) specifies changes unique to the PRC, Hong Kong, & Macau get a 'best effort' to be developed.

I believe there is some relatively broad latitude regarding those specifics. They already did develop a Chinese line in WOT specifically mentioned to further the marketing in their home environment.

Also they specifically did NOT convert to 2.0 for World of Warplanes because they did not believe it to be in the best interests of their market (well golly gee whiz Batman.....you think they actually read the customer forums in the other regions!!??    Holy Common Sense, Batman!).

 

Tenacity. Nice digging ssmn! I like what you fellas are thinking. 

[soshootmenow]

Perrigrino, on 29 June 2018 - 10:04 AM, said:

 

Tenacity. Nice digging ssmn! I like what you fellas are thinking.

 

Thankyou Perrigrino, focke.

    ACE emailed me a couple of days ago regarding some of this info that he is having one of his contacts (somewhere) go over some of this and is waiting to hear something back. No promises but I appreciate his idea and efforts on this.

 My main premise for this thread still stands to make this a two mode game as that would be the solution that seems to be the easiest by far to implement.

    The information I found from the SEC query/responses is more to provide both some real numbers and concrete information regarding what actually IS possible to do and in fact has been implemented/running for years.

However......it ALSO opens up the possibility of certain other avenues that could conceivably be brought about on an alternate platform and/or wider scale than what is already implemented now.

In other words......what has been consistently presented to our user community as a concrete wall protecting a sealed cast-iron locked box as to 'how things are and will be' actually HAS quite a few cracks and outright gaps in it. If not completely wide-open doorways!!

[soshootmenow]

On a separate note......I could use some help on something for this.

If anyone has or knows who has accounts on the EU, Asian, and RU WoWP servers please see if you can post a link to this thread with a description for these ideas. I would like to expand our 'support, lobbying, knowledge, and resource' base. Especially the EU and RU forums. I would like to see if they like these ideas and/or if they have anything additional.

[mnbv_fockewulfe]

soshootmenow, on 29 June 2018 - 09:19 PM, said:

On a separate note......I could use some help on something for this.

If anyone has or knows who has accounts on the EU, Asian, and RU WoWP servers please see if you can post a link to this thread with a description for these ideas. I would like to expand our 'support, lobbying, knowledge, and resource' base. Especially the EU and RU forums. I would like to see if they like these ideas and/or if they have anything additional.

 

I have an EU and RU account, let me start a few PMs.

[mnbv_fockewulfe]

Something similar already on the EU forum.

http://forum.worldofwarplanes.eu/index.php?/topic/48972-reverse-back-to-v19/#topmost

[soshootmenow]

mnbv_fockewulfe, on 30 June 2018 - 12:57 AM, said:

Something similar already on the EU forum.

http://forum.worldofwarplanes.eu/index.php?/topic/48972-reverse-back-to-v19/#topmost

 

Thankyou focke!

It is still running and active since October last year when the changed and the latest post was today.

Please post the links and a description in reply on their thread for my thread.

IT IS TIME FOR THE ALLIES TO REUNITE!!!!

USA, RU, EU, ASIA!!!

 

[jack_wdw]

I'm willing to participate in any crowdfund for this matter!!

 

[Ace_BOTlistic_Cosmo]

jack_wdw, on 03 July 2018 - 01:55 AM, said:

I'm willing to participate in any crowdfund for this matter!!

 

 

$100 x 4000 -early investors = $400,000

+ fees generated daily

+ advertising sales

$1,000 value  x 400 -late investors/shares = $400,000

all these napkin numbers show early potential...

just saying