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Early jet fighters


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cddlbunny #1 Posted 13 May 2018 - 11:44 AM

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Just watching a doc on the early jets that proceeded the Me-262 on both sides. The Americans had the XP-59 Areocomet, the Germans developed the He280 before the Me-262 and the British had the Gloster E-28-39. None of them saw combat, but I am curious if these aircraft were added, where would they fit in the tech tree either as premium or tree aircraft. What would the performance and armament be like, but most of all, how would they fare in the general aspect of the game since they are the earliest attempt at jet aircraft between 1941-1942.

Edited by cddlbunny0, 13 May 2018 - 11:45 AM.


clodhoppr #2 Posted 13 May 2018 - 12:15 PM

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Anywhere...

The devs make up their own rules..



hawkeyededic #3 Posted 13 May 2018 - 01:03 PM

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My best guess would be as follows.

 

P-59B (production version 30 built) would probably be best at T-7 with the Meteor. It's performance is similar to the Meteor and it's 3x.50 mg and 1x37mm cannon would fit in with the tier as well.

 

The He.280 would be a good T-8 LF, it's performance is very close to the Me.262, only a few mph slower, but it's 3xMG.151/20 cannons would make it closer to the current Me.209A LF.

 

The Gloster E.28/39 would really be unsuitable. With a maximum speed 338 mph (544 km/h) at 10,000 ft (3,050 m) and provisions for 4x.303 machine guns I can't see it anywhere above t-5 at best. By comparison the P-40E is faster ( 360 mph (580 km/h) and better armed with 6x.50cal MGS then the Gloster.



 

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SpiritFoxMY #4 Posted 13 May 2018 - 02:42 PM

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View Posthawkeyededic, on 13 May 2018 - 09:03 PM, said:

The Gloster E.28/39 would really be unsuitable. With a maximum speed 338 mph (544 km/h) at 10,000 ft (3,050 m) and provisions for 4x.303 machine guns I can't see it anywhere above t-5 at best. By comparison the P-40E is faster ( 360 mph (580 km/h) and better armed with 6x.50cal MGS then the Gloster.

 

4x7.7s put its firepower as equal to the tier 3 Bristol 133. With its speed, maybe it could function as a tier 4 Premium? 


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cddlbunny #5 Posted 14 May 2018 - 03:22 AM

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I think that it would freak a lot of people out with a jet at tier 4, But, in the context of the time period of the game, it would be possible.Interesting to see though.

KloudRains #6 Posted 15 May 2018 - 03:41 AM

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I am skeptical that the P-59 would compare well with the Meteor. The Meteor became a fully developed, operational bird. It had extensive combat experience in a number of wars. The P-59 would not likely have had a single operational model were it not for heavy, heavy pressure from General Arnold to get the thing operational. Its performance specs were inferior to its predecessor prop fighters such as the P-51, P-47, F6F and F4U

 

I flew F-100s with Major Jack Pope during late 1961- early 1962, He had been in the P-59 squadron at Edwards - first US jet fighter squadron. This was after a combat tour in P-51s based in China. We talked often about the early planes. He was very scornful of the P-59. It had terrible takeoff and climb performance. He talked of miles to get it off the Lake Muroc dry bed. Speed numbers were rather less than for the Mustang.  When you shoved the throttles forward in flight you got just a promise and a little more noise. You needed to shave again before the GE 1-1 Whittle engines got up to commanded RPM. And, you had to seriously baby the throttle movements to keep from engine overheat. The wings, at nearly 50 feet wide , were 10-15 feet longer span than contemporary fighters which, despite having most of the weight near centerline, made the wings ponderous in roll.  Bell started a concurrent design which was transferred to Lockheed at the Skunk Works and became the P-80 ...so their P-59 experience was a fruitful stage. 

 

Contrary to the party line there was a token bit of combat exposure by US jets in World War II. It was very secret and rather untidy in outcome. Operational Extraversion was also given the five-star emphasis by General Arnold. Many a corner was cut to make it happen. This resulted in a handful of P-80s getting desultory WWII combat experience in the UK and Italy. One pilot who said he was at Udine when the P-80s flew there in the highly classified Project Extraversion claimed the P-80 saw combat - albeit without getting engaged with enemy planes. Some strafing was reported. 

 

Search on P-80s at Udine


Edited by KloudRains, 15 May 2018 - 03:42 AM.


mnbv_fockewulfe #7 Posted 15 May 2018 - 10:13 PM

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View PostKloudRains, on 15 May 2018 - 03:41 AM, said:

I am skeptical that the P-59 would compare well with the Meteor. The Meteor became a fully developed, operational bird. It had extensive combat experience in a number of wars. The P-59 would not likely have had a single operational model were it not for heavy, heavy pressure from General Arnold to get the thing operational. Its performance specs were inferior to its predecessor prop fighters such as the P-51, P-47, F6F and F4U

 

I flew F-100s with Major Jack Pope during late 1961- early 1962, He had been in the P-59 squadron at Edwards - first US jet fighter squadron. This was after a combat tour in P-51s based in China. We talked often about the early planes. He was very scornful of the P-59. It had terrible takeoff and climb performance. He talked of miles to get it off the Lake Muroc dry bed. Speed numbers were rather less than for the Mustang.  When you shoved the throttles forward in flight you got just a promise and a little more noise. You needed to shave again before the GE 1-1 Whittle engines got up to commanded RPM. And, you had to seriously baby the throttle movements to keep from engine overheat. The wings, at nearly 50 feet wide , were 10-15 feet longer span than contemporary fighters which, despite having most of the weight near centerline, made the wings ponderous in roll.  Bell started a concurrent design which was transferred to Lockheed at the Skunk Works and became the P-80 ...so their P-59 experience was a fruitful stage. 

 

Contrary to the party line there was a token bit of combat exposure by US jets in World War II. It was very secret and rather untidy in outcome. Operational Extraversion was also given the five-star emphasis by General Arnold. Many a corner was cut to make it happen. This resulted in a handful of P-80s getting desultory WWII combat experience in the UK and Italy. One pilot who said he was at Udine when the P-80s flew there in the highly classified Project Extraversion claimed the P-80 saw combat - albeit without getting engaged with enemy planes. Some strafing was reported. 

 

Search on P-80s at Udine

 

Your posts are always an interesting insight.:honoring:

Edited by mnbv_fockewulfe, 15 May 2018 - 10:17 PM.

Be sure to check your logic privileges before posting on the forum.

 

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NovaTempest #8 Posted 16 May 2018 - 07:46 PM

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View Postmnbv_fockewulfe, on 15 May 2018 - 10:13 PM, said:

 

Your posts are always an interesting insight.:honoring:

 

I'll second that, very interesting read. :honoring:

jack_wdw #9 Posted 17 May 2018 - 03:20 PM

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BI-1 & 2 would also be a nice fit in this category:

https://en.wikipedia...yak-Isayev_BI-1




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