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Bot Non-Aggression Pact?


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ComradeZ #1 Posted 11 May 2018 - 04:43 AM

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So after about 50 hours or so of careful observation, something odd has lead me to a conclusion: Bots are programmed to go soft on each other.  The amount of times I have seen a bot effectively kill another bot is very very low. Key word is 'Effective'. How many of you have seen 3-4 bots trailing an enemy bomber within gun range and only shooting maybe 2 times every few seconds with horrible aim? Now their behaviour is different against Air Defense aircraft, it's clear they hate each other, but not as much as both hates the player.  I would love to see the reasoning and rational (if any) behind the bot behavior. Are they using sliders or do the programmers use an open general algorithm for the bots?? Who knows? Anyone? Bueller??? 

 

I'm trying to figure out how they work/'thought process' so I and many other players don't end up having to carry a team of brain dead vicious flesh eating tadpoles with ADD.  You need to understand a virulently hated enemy before you can take them out! ;)

 

Anyone else see the bots act strange in the last 2-3 weeks?



Pogo68 #2 Posted 11 May 2018 - 05:44 AM

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Don't know about them going soft against each other bu I've seen them average 2-3 kills per game while a human player will rack up 5-18 kills in that same game.

 


DICTA BOELCKE for WoWP
    1. Try to secure the upper hand before attacking.
    2. Always continue with an attack you have begun
    3. Open fire only at close range, and then only when the opponent is squarely in your sights
    4. You should always try to keep your eye on your opponent, and never let yourself be deceived by ruses
    5. In any type of attack, it is essential to assail your opponent from behind
    6. If your opponent dives on you, do not try run away from his attack, but fly to meet it
    7. When over the enemy's lines, always remember your own line of retreat
    8. It is better to attack in groups of four or six. Avoid two aircraft attacking the same opponent

Chuck_norris10 #3 Posted 11 May 2018 - 06:47 AM

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In Russia bots own you.

 


 

 


 

FluffyPabu #4 Posted 11 May 2018 - 06:56 AM

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View PostComradeZ, on 11 May 2018 - 04:43 AM, said:

So after about 50 hours or so of careful observation, something odd has lead me to a conclusion: Bots are programmed to go soft on each other.  The amount of times I have seen a bot effectively kill another bot is very very low. Key word is 'Effective'. How many of you have seen 3-4 bots trailing an enemy bomber within gun range and only shooting maybe 2 times every few seconds with horrible aim? Now their behaviour is different against Air Defense aircraft, it's clear they hate each other, but not as much as both hates the player.  I would love to see the reasoning and rational (if any) behind the bot behavior. Are they using sliders or do the programmers use an open general algorithm for the bots?? Who knows? Anyone? Bueller??? 

 

I'm trying to figure out how they work/'thought process' so I and many other players don't end up having to carry a team of brain dead vicious flesh eating tadpoles with ADD.  You need to understand a virulently hated enemy before you can take them out! ;)

 

Anyone else see the bots act strange in the last 2-3 weeks?

 

bots behave as if they are sidekicks. Friendly bots will assist you getting kills, but they won't help to get rid of a enemy bot from your tail. Before the recent changes of bot behaviour, I could lure an enemy bot to a friendly base and then he gets distracted and starts targeting the bot defenders. Now if they get behind you, they won't stop until you are dead.

 

I think you will also notice that when you are in your LFs and MRFs, enemy bots, flying with Yak, KI, Spits and La will always get behind you and won't stop until he kills you.

 

The best way to counter such problem, is to hunt them first down when you see them attacking a base ie. when they are busy with something else.

 

Even if you attack a bomber flight, you will notice in your minimap that from a far distance, some motherflipping bot is coming towards you at full speed.

 

Heavy fighter bots are so annoying, I don't even get a warning that someone is behind my back and their shots are so accurate that it takes more than half of my HP before I even realizing it (especially at higher tiers). Always keep an eye on minimap and keep guessing somebody might be coming towards you.


Edited by poisonousblood, 11 May 2018 - 07:07 AM.


Martymart1976 #5 Posted 11 May 2018 - 08:07 AM

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I will be flying tonight pal, lets go off on the damn bots!

trikke #6 Posted 11 May 2018 - 11:53 AM

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Prenzlau showed me how he gets the bots to do his bidding

 

i think he has blackmail photos of bots performing unnatural acts

 

 

edit: i saw that in '72, i'd never heard of Lenny Bruce...  still get a chuckle        kids today would have no idea who the Masked Man was


Edited by trikke, 11 May 2018 - 01:38 PM.

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Prenzlau #7 Posted 11 May 2018 - 01:53 PM

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Whoa, hold on there Trikke! Some techniques are solely the proprietary information of The Z & P Bombing Company! Fortunately there is not any sort of secret here. 

 

Bots listen to bombers, it's as simple as that!

...and when it comes to bots, size counts!

 

The Z & P Bombing Company is also working on techniques to get human players to listen as well, although progress has been somewhat slow, we are still very optimistic. 

 

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clodhoppr #8 Posted 11 May 2018 - 01:55 PM

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Bots shoot down bots.

The differences; some bots are more aggressive, have better aim, maneuver better, are better bots than other bots.

This has to be true because one player vs. one player battles, bots wills take sectors which means the bots have to take out defense planes and enemy bots. 

I believe bots do lack specific strategies like defending captured sectors. I also have never seen a bot ram another bot; although lately, all bots seem to ram humans whenever possible. 



trikke #9 Posted 11 May 2018 - 02:11 PM

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View PostPrenzlau, on 11 May 2018 - 08:53 AM, said:

The Z & P Bombing Company is also working on techniques to get human players to listen as well, although progress has been somewhat slow, we are still very optimistic. 

 

snicker...  best of luck to you on that, brother!     

 

at least one of your recent partners has ADD, has trouble 'hearing' good advice, and goes off in the opposite direction chasing after non-vital targets 

 

don'tcha just hate that!

 

it was great flying with you, brother!


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Pogo68 #10 Posted 11 May 2018 - 09:47 PM

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View Posttrikke, on 11 May 2018 - 06:11 AM, said:

 

snicker...  best of luck to you on that, brother!     

 

at least one of your recent partners has ADD, has trouble 'hearing' good advice, and goes off in the opposite direction chasing after non-vital targets 

 

don'tcha just hate that!

 

it was great flying with you, brother!

 

 

Annoying.

On one map, I had a garrison near my spawn point while on the other side was a missile base and an air base.

So which did my bots go to?

The garrison, all of my bots went there.

And funny, the other side captured both the airbase and the missile base in the time it took my bots to capture the garrison.


DICTA BOELCKE for WoWP
    1. Try to secure the upper hand before attacking.
    2. Always continue with an attack you have begun
    3. Open fire only at close range, and then only when the opponent is squarely in your sights
    4. You should always try to keep your eye on your opponent, and never let yourself be deceived by ruses
    5. In any type of attack, it is essential to assail your opponent from behind
    6. If your opponent dives on you, do not try run away from his attack, but fly to meet it
    7. When over the enemy's lines, always remember your own line of retreat
    8. It is better to attack in groups of four or six. Avoid two aircraft attacking the same opponent

ComradeZ #11 Posted 11 May 2018 - 11:15 PM

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I just had a game last night where I had 2 AFKers. Those two guys made the tide of battle change when 3/4ths of the enemy team decided to chase after them, leaving all their stuff undefended.  Seen it work the other way around too. Baffling. 

SonicPariah #12 Posted 14 May 2018 - 01:54 AM

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The real reason that it seems like they are going soft is that both sides are essentially programmed the same and know the same tactics.

 

Which means that they dodge and attack the same, which is very effective against dodge methods against other bots and not very effective attack tactics unless they are attacking a player that doesn't know the bot patterns.



ComradeZ #13 Posted 14 May 2018 - 04:49 AM

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View PostSonicPariah, on 14 May 2018 - 01:54 AM, said:

The real reason that it seems like they are going soft is that both sides are essentially programmed the same and know the same tactics.

 

Which means that they dodge and attack the same, which is very effective against dodge methods against other bots and not very effective attack tactics unless they are attacking a player that doesn't know the bot patterns.

 

Yeah...too bad it does not work like that in practice.  Bomber don't dodge at all. I've seen 4 ai pilots on a single ai bomber that was flying in a straight line..it was not dodging. Those 4 guys pursued him back and forth and did not once kill the guy.   What you say may be true for fighters at low tiers though.

 



GonerNL #14 Posted 14 May 2018 - 01:20 PM

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View PostSonicPariah, on 14 May 2018 - 01:54 AM, said:

both sides are essentially programmed the same and know the same tactics.

 

So why do one team's bots go for the important bases (missile, air ...) and take it in no-time and the other team's bots [edited]around the garrison for ages and still can't take it ?? Same tactics ...
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trikke #15 Posted 14 May 2018 - 01:42 PM

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View PostGonerNL, on 14 May 2018 - 08:20 AM, said:

So why do one team's bots go for the important bases (missile, air ...) and take it in no-time and the other team's bots [edited]around the garrison for ages and still can't take it ?? Same tactics ...

 

for the exact same reason why...   in one battle, i can flip a cap in seconds

 

but in another battle, just minutes later...  my flight partner has to say "uhh, do you need some help with that cap that you've been working on for an hour now?"

 

let's graciously assume that it's the RNG messing with both the bots and the humans, and just let it go at that

 

because bots can only make if/then programming decisions, but humans can make tons more poor decisions in the same situation 


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CorvusCorvax #16 Posted 14 May 2018 - 02:05 PM

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My clan mates and I saw the HF bot behavior described up above on several flights yesterday.  I got picked up by two HF bots, and they did not let go of BnZ attacks on me, and both of the bots were working together.  In addition, after being shot down, they decided to come after me again.  Both of them, even though they got shot down 30 seconds apart.

 

In another battle, an Me-109Z just would *not* stop pestering us.  Luckily, the Hurricane IID has those 40mm cannon, and they will make very short work of pretty much anything.  But there was no warning of "enemy on your tail" or anything.  The first indication was 30mm shells landing.



ComradeZ #17 Posted 17 May 2018 - 06:37 AM

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Yeah, I've been getting donkey punched by BG109zs and Me-262s.  I'll be flying and attacking and suddenly it sounds like I'm flying through a cloud of 30mm canned goods. The entire time it never said I had a guy on my tail.   Has anyone noticed that the kamikaze rammer bots have now been making a mild effort to avoid the player head on?   Only had 4 rams by bots this week so far.  So I guess there is that.

GonerNL #18 Posted 17 May 2018 - 10:01 AM

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View PostComradeZ, on 17 May 2018 - 06:37 AM, said:

Has anyone noticed that the kamikaze rammer bots have now been making a mild effort to avoid the player head on? 

 

No.

Yesterday I was rammed by a heavy while I was on the tail of a defender ... so not even head-on. In my experience the heavies still go out of their way to ram you from any possible angle.


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Reitousair #19 Posted 17 May 2018 - 02:52 PM

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From what I've seen, bots don't so much as work together, as I've seen some hilariously dumb stuff pulled off by HF duos attacking me. I think they just attack you one after the other because usually they're pulled from different areas, but if they begin to fly towards you at the same time, they'll charge you at pretty much the same time and same angle.

 

Just be grateful we don't have Invasions mega-powerful high-tier HF bots which could instantly kill you in your own HF from 700-800m away. Now THAT'D be a great time to have back in Conquest...


I do fly Chinese aircraft a fair amount so... *ahem*

CHINA NUMBAH WAN

 

I even made a custom skin for my IL-10M!

 


CorvusCorvax #20 Posted 17 May 2018 - 03:57 PM

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View PostComradeZ, on 17 May 2018 - 06:37 AM, said:

Yeah, I've been getting donkey punched by BG109zs and Me-262s.  I'll be flying and attacking and suddenly it sounds like I'm flying through a cloud of 30mm canned goods. The entire time it never said I had a guy on my tail.   Has anyone noticed that the kamikaze rammer bots have now been making a mild effort to avoid the player head on?   Only had 4 rams by bots this week so far.  So I guess there is that.

 

LFs avoid, but the heavies don't GAF.  You have to have your head on a swivel.  :(

 






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