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Focke Wulf line tiers 5-7 (How do I grind it?)


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wylleEcoyote #21 Posted 20 July 2018 - 07:53 PM

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View Postf16falcona46, on 20 July 2018 - 07:51 AM, said:

Dmcern suggested the cruise speed build and I'm finding it really helpful, i.e., stacking everything for cruise speed.

 

"Aside from getting wherever 'There' happens to be "First-est with the Most-est" 
What exactly is so helpful about a cruise build?"  the coyote asked for a friend in a heavy fighter ...

 

View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 20 July 2018 - 09:45 AM, said:

I dunno. The 190's maneuverability is bad enough without penalizing it further. I'm not a fan of Polished Skin for this reason.

 

What happened to  "- you don't turn in a 190: you vaporize your target then move on. One pass, haul [edited]should be your motto at all times. "

Y U DO ME A CONFUZE?

Edited by wylleEcoyote, 20 July 2018 - 07:56 PM.


mnbv_fockewulfe #22 Posted 20 July 2018 - 07:57 PM

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View PostwylleEcoyote, on 20 July 2018 - 07:53 PM, said:

 

"Aside from getting wherever 'There' happens to be "First-est with the Most-est" 
What exactly is so helpful about a cruise build?"  the coyote asked for a friend...

 

 

What happened to  "- you don't turn in a 190: you vaporize your target then move on. One pass, haul [edited]should be your motto at all times. "

Y U DO ME A CONFUZE?

 

 

The tiny bit of maneuverability that the 190 does have is vital for pulling out of dives and the like. It also increases the max distance you have to make before turning around to make another horizontal pass by a good few meters even though you're losing only a few precious seconds.

 


Be sure to check your logic privileges before posting on the forum.

 

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wylleEcoyote #23 Posted 20 July 2018 - 08:10 PM

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I figured the point of this equipment was to min max what your good at. 

while it may be suprising as [edited]to mount an Super mega perfectly calibrated  Ultimate lightwieght airframe on the FW  that lets it win a turn fight against other B&Z planes that have no reason to expect it (looking at you P40/BFseries/Hurricanes :sceptic:); that still doesnt mean you can compete with even moderately improved  Spit or Kii ... 

And do i really want to sacrifice my capacity to chase down particulalrly high speed heavies or bombers to do it?

Edited by wylleEcoyote, 20 July 2018 - 08:12 PM.


mnbv_fockewulfe #24 Posted 20 July 2018 - 08:17 PM

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View PostwylleEcoyote, on 20 July 2018 - 08:10 PM, said:

I figured the point of this equipment was to min max what your good at. 

while it may be suprising as [edited]to mount an Super mega perfectly calibrated  Ultimate lightwieght airframe on the FW  that lets it win a turn fight against other B&Z planes that have no reason to expect it (looking at you P40/BFseries/Hurricanes :sceptic:); that still doesnt mean you can compete with even moderately improved  Spit or Kii ... 

And do i really want to sacrifice my capacity to chase down particulalrly high speed heavies or bombers to do it?

 

Therein lies the flaw with the new equipment. You can't use your improved speed when it requires you to utilize every bit of the maneuverability that you now don't have.   

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wylleEcoyote #25 Posted 20 July 2018 - 09:04 PM

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Fair enough.  Oh but wait though!

if the engine upgrade is the Boost variant. then the only time its going all out is in Boost. 
take your finger off the W key and hit the flaps and your speed should drop enough to make that turn,
Even with your acceleration in Dive that Polished Skin provides.
Hell if i do hit the brakes that hard for too long it normally falls out of the sky
And as for the lack of maneuverability; if it Really Is That Bad, wouldnt the consumable that temporarily boosts turns cover you?
Or the maneuver expert skill?

Unless there is a particular upgrade that has a bonus improvement that duplicated what extended flaps used to do?

For those reading along getting set to cry about wasted skill points:
i have been set fire and pilot killed enough (thanks to all those improved sights )
to actually respec 2 points into Firefighter and Fire protection just so i can reliably put out fires AND have a slot available for first aid kits on my fragile little fighter planes.
Whats 2 more for maintaining maneuverability?  If pulling out of a dive i going to be that hard maybe i dont need engine guru so much?  
Ok Ok your right i am being silly.  Marksman then!

Edited by wylleEcoyote, 20 July 2018 - 10:33 PM.


SpiritFoxMY #26 Posted 21 July 2018 - 05:55 AM

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It doesn't cover enough and, more importantly, only lasts ten seconds. The Polished Skin drops your maneuverability by up to 3.8% which is more than you can compensate with the Aerobatics Expert skill.

 

As for WHY I chose not to sacrifice maneuverability and instead increase it, it has to do with the Focke Wulf's base 13.3 turn time, which is horrible but, more importantly, is only slightly superior to the turn time of a P-38J (13.8), a P-47B (13.5) and an XP-50 (13.5). If I eat the turn penalty from Polished Skin, all these planes will actually be able to out-turn me and out-boost me and they can STILL run me down in a dive because Polished Skin only increases dive acceleration, not dive maximum speed.

 

The increased rate of turn, plus the bonus to the Focke Wulf's already high rate of roll (up to 180 from the base of 160) means I can get my guns on target easier, and keep them there on the boom. As mnbv noted, I can reset for a second pass faster and safer after my boost out and now I can more easily maneuver out of the guns of marauding heavies and nail them on THEIR zoom. With a bit of scissoring I can force overshoots from more maneuverable planes like the Mustang although to be fair, I'm still very unskilled in that art. 

 

Bottom line - I don't see the increase to cruise speed and dive acceleration as sufficient payoff for the loss of maneuverability. Your mileage may vary, of course, but I live and die by my 190's boost capability so cruise speed isn't as important to me as that extra bit of maneuverability.


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wylleEcoyote #27 Posted 23 July 2018 - 11:10 AM

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I will never understand from what context WG pulled the values for some of these planes ...  and then tried to balanced them to fit with each other in spite of being purposely designed to be OP as fuq within the confines of the expected mission parameters. 

Why do they even bother nerfing the P-38 to fit in the same tier as a Stuka?

that aside, thanks for those pertinent details.  I sometimes for get that in spite of the nerf bat treatment there is still no running from a P38 that wants to catch you ...

f16falcona46 #28 Posted 25 July 2018 - 01:40 PM

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View PostwylleEcoyote, on 20 July 2018 - 07:53 PM, said:

"Aside from getting wherever 'There' happens to be "First-est with the Most-est

What exactly is so helpful about a cruise build?"  the coyote asked for a friend in a heavy fighter ...

That's exactly what you need to do. In the current meta, humans > bots, and the human who can quickly fly between the caps, attacking and defending as necessary, will usually win. That's why RB-17 is so strong: cap power, and high speed for moving between caps. Additionally, cruise speed lets you handle light fighters, since even if you're out of boost, if you go into level flight (and they don't abuse the Big Boost Bug), you can get away with taking only one burst or so.



wylleEcoyote #29 Posted 28 July 2018 - 07:55 PM

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being first there is great and all for high altitude Bombers.  In a Fw getting there first means I'm the first to die.

Aside from being the first to shoot at heavy air defense fighters and the first to drop bombs on AA  and the first to run from Light Air defense that is not already mostly dead (unless head on) and the first to  accidentally find the "sweet zone" where ALL the AA bubbles intersect at their optimal altitude.
So much for any progress you made capping at that point. 

unless i have the rest of the team right behind me ... or better still, in front of me.
 

When it comes to cap flipping in a Fw; In my experience the best way is showing up when a cap is 2/3 to 3/4 finished already and dropping some bombs to finish up some often missed small stuff or strafing a pilot or two with only < 30% hp that is distracted by shooting at some other team mate.

I dont see the wisdom in sacrificing what a Fw is good at just to be the first (or even only) guy on the cap.
Especially at teir 5 where my Zoom is best defined as 'adequate for out running (some) fighters' , my Boom is only 'slightly' better than same tier Bf109 and my turning is only 'slightly' better than any heavy. 
Yes its True that; while boosted, i "can" (mostly) out run anything except the bullets aimed at me.
Even catch up to a heavy or a bomber . Yet if i do so at "Their" altitude the Fw is less about Flying and more about Brick.

So in addition to being the "Firstest" Is there other good things  about a maxed cruise build?
Is there a special bonus stat lurking in the cruise enhancment gear that jacks up the plane's pitch axis turns that i dont know about ?

Id like nothing better than to Boom, Boost and then when the chaser is about 850`900 m behind me and thinking of finding something else ...
pull up and invert the Butcher bird so fast that im now Head On with them and at optimal gun range of 600 m and closing. :playing:

All within 3 seconds. :D

SpiritFoxMY #30 Posted 29 July 2018 - 03:22 AM

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Nope. There IS a chance of rolling a +5% Cooldown rate which might be useful for boosting but that's about it.

 

Getting from cap to cap is still important regardless of the plane you fly - it allows you to react to situations that are developing across the map: maybe you spot a gaggle of GAs heading for your Mining Plant or your own GA has almost capped his Mining plant but there're a bunch of enemy fighters heading in on him. With cruise speed, you can get there just that little bit faster to make a difference. The Focke Wulf just happens to have a decent amount of boost to make up for it in short bursts but you run the risk of going into battle with little to no boost which is verboten for an Fw.

 

Which is why I've always run the Engine Coolent consumable. Which is now bugged to hell and back.


Edited by SpiritFoxMY, 29 July 2018 - 03:23 AM.

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wylleEcoyote #31 Posted 02 August 2018 - 08:42 AM

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bugged how?

Cenotaph #32 Posted 02 August 2018 - 07:08 PM

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View PostwylleEcoyote, on 02 August 2018 - 12:42 AM, said:

bugged how?

 

Infinite boost... when your initial boost pool is high enough.

Edited by Cenotaph, 02 August 2018 - 07:09 PM.

I don't want to hurt you... I just want to kill you!

El_Mulo #33 Posted 02 August 2018 - 07:24 PM

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Two things:
1. Stop worrying about stats (they re gonna fall down)

2. Tons of patience.


What we say to death?

wylleEcoyote #34 Posted 30 September 2018 - 07:40 PM

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UPDATED INFO

So I FINALLY managed to unlock specialist in a Fw A-5.  (that airkills in victorious battles only requirement is such a [edited]when your bots arent helpful) 

And i learned a few things about equipment in the process. 

Apparently you can have a different equipment configuration depending on what you mount on the plane.
For example:
      i can mount a gun site and long gun barrells (going for crit chance of 30%.)
          One can do the same with Fire chance by using a (now your cooking with) Gas Operated Action.
And once i mount them and the game goes "are you sure" i hit Apply and its done. they stay that way
...unless i change that configuration.

While this is not the case for every plane ... the 190; even specialist, can choose between any where from:
           no outboard weapons (just 2x 13mm HMG & 2x 20mm Cannon all synchronized)
           All teh BangBang Fwooshx2 and Boomx4 evar
          Or any combination thereof. 
WHY do we care?   Because each weapon choice changes our speed. But by how much? 
OMG A LONG WINDED ANSWER

Basically; the more crapyou carry, the slower you go. Carry it all and you drop your airspeed rating by 3 points.
By the same token carry nothing extra on a (pretty much stock equipment) cruise build and your Airspeed Rating goes up 4 points. 
(I have no idea what will happen if you ran Ultimate equipment because of the 6 extra random bonuses.)

And in this game every little bit counts for something.

You can set up and fine tune a different build (agility. firestarter. tanky. cruise. crit damage.) for every combination of ordinance from None to All of it.
And have that equipment build get automatically loaded for you when You switch the ordinance around.

Mind you, your still in a Fw190 (or any other MultiRole Fighter) so some of these builds  are still gonna be ... oh lets call it "less than optimal".  (even a maxed out cruise build only barely out runs a P-38J that is specialized for turning)

But hey at least you have options. Lots of options.
That's pretty neat. Its too bad WG never mentioned this in an instructional video or something...



 

Edited by wylleEcoyote, 01 October 2018 - 01:52 AM.


GonerNL #35 Posted 01 October 2018 - 07:55 AM

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View PostwylleEcoyote, on 30 September 2018 - 08:40 PM, said:

While this is not the case for every plane ... the 190; even specialist, can choose between any where from:
           no outboard weapons (just 2x 13mm HMG & 2x 20mm Cannon all synchronized)

 

I think you can unmount outboard weapons like bombs & rockets on all specialist MR's and HF's, you are just stuck with what is considered 'top' guns ... right ?


Flying on EU and NA server

SpiritFoxMY #36 Posted 01 October 2018 - 07:59 AM

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View PostGonerNL, on 01 October 2018 - 03:55 PM, said:

 

I think you can unmount outboard weapons like bombs & rockets on all specialist MR's and HF's, you are just stuck with what is considered 'top' guns ... right ?

 

'Top' modules. So, for example, the F-84D gets 500lb bombs before Tiny Tims. However, you will only get the option to mount the Tims or nothing at all if you are Specialized.

 

The 190s only have an either or for their ordnance but other multiroles and ground attacks don't


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So here's to a life of glory

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wylleEcoyote #37 Posted 05 October 2018 - 07:06 AM

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Loving this new escort mode in the Fw190.  Its Boom & Zoom Heaven.
I run an agility build and just the outboard 20mms on the A-5.
The 4x 20mm at tier 6 is enough to put a powerful hurt onto anything that needs killing on offense or defense.
And the boost is enough to get you where you need to be at any given moment, altitude wise.

Just because you have bombs mounted (rockets at least can kill bombers) doesnt stop the MM from putting you on defense anyway.
SO i leave both behind.

Still have to be careful about anything getting on your 6, but in this mode there are usually more important targets for the Red Team to worry about
So things that would ordinarily go out of their way to hard counter me are preoccupied.

And most of all the Personal points for the event are well beyond normal. If you want to grind the line now is the time.

wylleEcoyote #38 Posted 05 October 2018 - 07:15 AM

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View PostGonerNL, on 01 October 2018 - 07:55 AM, said:

 

I think you can unmount outboard weapons like bombs & rockets on all specialist MR's and HF's, you are just stuck with what is considered 'top' guns ... right ?

 

Not necessarily. If you are willing to play your plane as stock; you can use whatever module you want.
Especially for certain Stuka and p-38 pilots that just love their 20mm cannons too much to deal with 37's
mind you this means you loose access to some equipment slots and the slots you do have can only mount Improved gear (though you can calibrate to take it further) 

SpiritFoxMY #39 Posted 05 October 2018 - 09:02 AM

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View PostwylleEcoyote, on 05 October 2018 - 03:06 PM, said:

Loving this new escort mode in the Fw190.  Its Boom & Zoom Heaven.
I run an agility build and just the outboard 20mms on the A-5.
The 4x 20mm at tier 6 is enough to put a powerful hurt onto anything that needs killing on offense or defense.
And the boost is enough to get you where you need to be at any given moment, altitude wise.

Just because you have bombs mounted (rockets at least can kill bombers) doesnt stop the MM from putting you on defense anyway.
SO i leave both behind.

 

Why would you carry ordnance on the A-5 under any circumstances anyway? :p I don't

 

Can't wait to murder people in my Butcher Bird now. I figured it'd be ideal for this mode and I'm glad it seems to be the case.


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So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


wylleEcoyote #40 Posted 09 October 2018 - 05:39 PM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 05 October 2018 - 09:02 AM, said:

 

Why would you carry ordnance on the A-5 under any circumstances anyway? :p I don't

 

Can't wait to murder people in my Butcher Bird now. I figured it'd be ideal for this mode and I'm glad it seems to be the case.

To help break the AA guns of course. Helps the team and gets me cap points. 

Why else?




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