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Rockets away! Leastweasel’s dodgy math


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LeastWeasel #1 Posted 19 April 2018 - 06:51 PM

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First, the numbers - followed by explanations & methodology. Feel free to test & provide feedback!

 

 

Ranges will likely be slightly less than listed; will be modified as more data

becomes available. Does not allow account for drag/deceleration. WHICH COULD BE A LOT (could someone get me that?). Starting points, right?

 

THE  BASICS

 

Here we go. Sample ranges vs static targets (or if you are looking to impact along a perpendicular line) are listed before (dive)/(max)/optimum)/(stall) speeds. Sorry for the formatting, posting from my phone...

 

ROCKETS

-fuse of 3-4 seconds, 200m/s^2 acceleration + inherited speed of aircraft in meters per second x fuse duration (X)

-minimum detonation (MD) at 900m + X with 3-second fuse, likely airburst (AB) at 1225 + X with 3.5 seconds.

 

IL-8: MD-AB at 1375-1779 (570 kph) / 1262-1648m (435kph) / 1127-1489m (272kph) / 975-1300m (90kph)

 

 

TINY TIM

-Fuse of 4-5 seconds, same formula as above. Calculated for 4 & 4.5 seconds. 1600 + X & 2025 + X.

 

F-84B: MD-AB at 2712-3275m (1000kph) / 2572-3109m (875kph) / 2183-2678m (525 kph) / 1822-2275m (200kph)

 

 

R4Ms & ANTI-AIR ROCKETS

- 2.5 to 3 second fuses, same formula. Calculated for 2.5 & 2.76 seconds. 625 + X & 756 + X.

- See below for better notes on ranges vs closing/fleeing targets.

 

Me 262: MD-AB at 1319-1520m (1000kph) / 1284-1481m (875kph) / 1104-1383m (525kph) / 699-951m (250kph)

 

HOW TO: FIRING WHILE CLOSING & IN PURSUIT

1) Pick a speed you plan to be going, multiply it by 1000, then divide it by 3600 to get your meters per second. Let’s say I am flying in an Me262 at 800kph, which is about 222 meters per second.

 

2) pick your rocket type - let’s say R4M , and determine whether you want a direct hit, or try to catch it in an airburst. Note its base minimum range and corresponding fuse time, or if you prefer, the likely range for airburst detonation if you’re not going for a direct hit. In this case, either 625 meters or 756. Let’s say we’re shooting for a direct hit, so we are looking at a base distance of 625m and a 2.5 second fuse time. 

 

3) Math some more - multiply your meters per second by the fuse time. In this case, 222 x 2.5 = 555. (I’m rounding out, some). This, plus the base range, is about the distance your rockets will travel before they start detonating

 

So, from my 800kph Me 262:

 

  • If I want to launch rockets to catch a plane on a perpendicular line of travel, aim about 2.5 seconds ahead and from a little less than 1080m (625+555) out.

 

  • If going head to head with a plane moving at the same speed, launch from 1735m (625+555+555). Less if they’re faster, more if they’re slower.

 

  • If you are tailing, and you are matching them in speed, it’s just that inherent 625m provided by the rocket’s acceleration - your speeds cancel each other out. Launch from further away the faster you are in relation to them, or closer if they have a speed advantage.

 

HOWS I DID IT

 

To get all these numbers, I used the acceleration rates & fuse times listed in an old developers’ blog post & ran them through a simple kinematics equation. If we had the missing data, we could model it better; for now, this can stand as a baseline to work from & generally eyeball. Like I said, the ranges are likely actually shorter by a bit. I didn’t calculate the max ranges because so few would make it that far, and the distance becomes greater with each second in flight (yet again, these are right now calculated as if they were frictionless, constantly-accelerating rockets).

 

 

Things I learned from this: knowing your speed in meters per second is actually really handy; and if you are aiming to catch people mid-explosion, TAKE THE ROCKETEER SKILL. HVARs launched from the same point could be detonating hundreds of meters apart!

 

 


Edited by LeastWeasel, 19 April 2018 - 06:59 PM.


NovaTempest #2 Posted 19 April 2018 - 07:09 PM

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+1 for the math effort, that looks like it was a massive headache.

Also someone ought to sticky this. I have the HG II, and although i took off Rocketeer in exchange for aero expert, i plan on getting it back as soon as I have the skill points for it.


Edited by NovaTempest, 19 April 2018 - 07:10 PM.


Prenzlau #3 Posted 19 April 2018 - 07:26 PM

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So very interesting! This could turn just anyone into an expert Rocketeer! 

 

+1

 

Prenzlau


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wscarter007 #4 Posted 19 April 2018 - 09:10 PM

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I'm sure HVAR could verify and give some knowledge to this subject.  They excell at rocketing, don't ever go head on with them or you'll learn why not to in a hurry. 

Reitousair #5 Posted 19 April 2018 - 09:27 PM

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Hmm, nice little guide here to get a rough idea on how to use airburst rockets. I personally just use direct-impacts since it's easier to adjust for lead and the position of your rockets rather than having to also calculate how far away the enemy is and at what speeds.

 

Though, at the very least, can confirm from my testing that Tiny Tims and A2A rockets have different fuse-timers than your standard old rockets. Usually in a head-on attack you can launch R4M's or FFAR's at ~1200m reliably to get a decent chance at an airburst. Tiny Tims can be launch out at 2km's but... that's a pretty long distance to gamble your rockets hitting, usually just a better idea to use them on ground targets.

 

I haven't thoroughly checked but it feels like 82mm, 132mm, and 210mm (for example Wr-210's on Fw-190's) rockets have different fuse timers as well, I find myself reliably getting snipes on ground targets in my IL-40 when using TRS-132's over the TRS-82's. I can't be entirely sure, maybe it's just pure luck and what speeds I was flying at.

 

Also, if you want to kill people with rockets, you pretty much need Expert Rocketeer as that makes airbursts more uniform and seems to increase the hitbox? I can't be entirely sure what's an airburst and what's a direct impact when using it in conjunction with A2A rockets because there's too many explosions.

 

View Postwscarter007, on 19 April 2018 - 01:10 PM, said:

I'm sure HVAR could verify and give some knowledge to this subject.  They excell at rocketing, don't ever go head on with them or you'll learn why not to in a hurry. 

Don't worry, not everybody in HVAR flies rocket-equipped planes 24/7... maybe  :trollface:


I do fly Chinese aircraft a fair amount so... *ahem*

CHINA NUMBAH WAN

 

I even made a custom skin for my IL-10M!

 


FluffyPabu #6 Posted 19 April 2018 - 09:52 PM

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From experience with no math whatsoever,

 

Rockets found under tier 5 aircraft-> max 800 meters range

Rockets above/and tier 4/5 aircraft -> max 1100-1300 meters range

Tiny Tim -> max 1500 meters range

 

These are the maximum range when rockets explodes in mid air.

 



LeastWeasel #7 Posted 19 April 2018 - 10:09 PM

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http://blog.worldofwarplanes.com/mechanics/fire-spears-rockets-wowp/


This is the data I am going on, the revelation that fuse & acceleration is set by rocket TYPE, not tier - and that it’s the speed it inherits from your already-in-motion aircraft that gives them greater ranges as you go up....
 


Edited by LeastWeasel, 19 April 2018 - 10:11 PM.


DrSinister #8 Posted 19 April 2018 - 11:25 PM

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LeastWeasel here is some data on the rockets from in game files.  I pulled this data from another website that pulls the data from the files.  I pooled it all on a Google Spreadsheet.

 

Most distances are based on meters, now for the acceleration it is hard to say if that is meters per sec or something else that the games uses for calculations.

 

But I noticed that on some select planes the rockets behave slightly different for looking at the data.  Another thing I notice is that the Start Acceleration for the mini rockets are far different than the 200m/s^2 that the old blog states.

https://docs.google....dit?usp=sharing


Edited by DrSinister, 19 April 2018 - 11:27 PM.


Chuck_norris10 #9 Posted 20 April 2018 - 01:31 PM

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I used to like the old days when you could get rocket kills over 1000 meters away.

 

 


 

LeastWeasel #10 Posted 25 April 2018 - 07:27 PM

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View PostDrSinister, on 19 April 2018 - 06:25 PM, said:

LeastWeasel here is some data on the rockets from in game files.  I pulled this data from another website that pulls the data from the files.  I pooled it all on a Google Spreadsheet.

 

Most distances are based on meters, now for the acceleration it is hard to say if that is meters per sec or something else that the games uses for calculations.

Sorry for the late reply - and thank you! I haven’t yet had a chance to make sense of the numbers & figure out exactly what they represent (I am far from a natural with parsing this stuff). I haven’t had an extended period of play yet where I’ve done anything but casual testing with the Me262, Thunderbolts & Corsairs - but so far my numbers are mostly holding up, even if the modelling’s since become more varied. 

 

At the very least, for now my incomplete work can stand as a simple “fire under this range” guide - and hopefully we, or someone, can go further in to the weeds with your data. 

 

The big point from both sets of data, though, is that rockets inherit your speed & accelerate. Higher speeds mean longer ranges, and vice versa. 






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