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My invincible Dornier Do17


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I_QQ_4_U #21 Posted 11 April 2018 - 12:27 AM

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View PostSgtSchlautter, on 11 April 2018 - 12:04 AM, said:

Exactly, rarely will u miss a target completely, even at those stupid altitudes. However, actually destroying the target in a single pass is where high altitude flying is hurting you. If u were flying lower, u would have a significantly higher impact in each battle

 

That's why I don't fly at really high altitudes unless I have to if no enemy fighters are bothering my I drop lower but still above the light AA, going higher gives me gunner more time to work on any heavies that might want to come up.

Ronald_Jenkinson #22 Posted 11 April 2018 - 03:15 AM

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View Postlunber54, on 10 April 2018 - 11:33 PM, said:

They could do that, but from a gameplay design point of view if a person just wanted to try out bombers and wasn’t sure if they would be worth it and continuously got destroyed in the tier 4 they would not enjoy playing them and stop the line at tier 4.  I wouldn’t say no to buffing tier 4’s altitude performance, but I would rather not change  anything that isn’t actually broken.

 

Buffing the altitude performance would work . I don't agree it isn't broken though, I've now flown 40+ missions, still only shot down 3 times if you don't count the damnably accurate AA.

Ronald_Jenkinson #23 Posted 11 April 2018 - 03:34 AM

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View PostZigfreid, on 11 April 2018 - 05:01 AM, said:

LOL +1 Prenzlau OK back on the subject of going 10k high in tier 4 bomber.

What i like is your 5.88 ground targets destroyed per sortie which is good not great.

What i don't like is you placed #1,048 in damage to ground targets could be better.

Dr Wiggles nailed it how effective is your bomber at 10k feet, i think not that good.

You have 5 cluster bomb drops every 2 minutes if the game lasts 8 to 12 minutes

you should have dropped 20 to 30 bombs and you said that you hit what you aim for.

With 5.88 targets destroyed per game with 25 bombs dropped is a little weak, one game

you did 16 targets destroyed which is good should be every game, my best is 29 in that plane.

Next 1 thunder, 1 lang, and 1 doolittle medal you just got your toes wet you really need to jump in.

My credentials are 39 targets destroyed in a bomber in one battle #3 ground targets destroyed,

#2 damage to ground targets on this server, 74 doolittles, 119 langs, 138 thunders. at ease your dismissed.

LOL bombers are fun, but push your self a little it's more fun. <O

 

 

 

​A useful analysis Zigreid, I'd be interested in your thoughts on optimal altitude to stay above the melee while bombing effectively in the Do17Z. As you've observed, I'm surviving missions and getting reasonable results, finding the balance between staying in the fight and bombing effectively is the challenge.

comtedumas #24 Posted 11 April 2018 - 04:00 AM

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View PostRonald_Jenkinson, on 10 April 2018 - 04:56 AM, said:

So far I've flown 30 missions in a T4 Dornier Do17 bomber and been shot down only 3 times by hostile aircraft. 

 

That's ridiculous.

 

It shouldn't be that hard to shoot down a bomber.  My tactic is simple, climb to 10,000 feet and float around blowing stuff up with impunity.  Occasionally a heavy fighter will struggle up to that altitude and take a shot at me, I just hit the boost, climb a little higher and run away.

 

This is seriously out of whack, once a HF gets me in their sights I should be toast.  ADHFs don't even bother, haven't seen a single one at that altitude.

 

Why are bombers getting such a soft run?

 

keep flying.  It won’t be long till you Re getting into T4-5 mixed battles, and then you will have to deal with P38-Fs.  Btw, go ahead and spec your gunner for range now, you will appreciate it later.  

comtedumas #25 Posted 11 April 2018 - 04:17 AM

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View PostDr_Wigglespank, on 10 April 2018 - 09:09 AM, said:

 

I've only played around a dozen games in the Do-17Z but I found that sticking to such high altitudes made it much harder to destroy the larger ground targets in one drop, even with the bomb sight and pilot skill. I'd prefer to drop between 6-7K and then climb while the bombs reload.

 

I do realize that with such few games in bombers that I'm no expert and certainly have a lot to learn, so take my thoughts as you will.

 

drop two sticks on the bigger point targets, like the three hangers and three tents, and drop one stick on smaller point targets like the four tents in a square.  That way every pass can destroyed 2 targets for sure, and very likely 3 targets.  

GonerNL #26 Posted 11 April 2018 - 08:32 AM

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How often do you guys lose the white circle in the bomb-sight that changes in color when you should drop ?? It happens every third battle here now ... start the battle and the circle is just missing. Makes it almost impossible to bomb accurately.

I_QQ_4_U #27 Posted 11 April 2018 - 09:33 AM

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View PostGonerNL, on 11 April 2018 - 08:32 AM, said:

How often do you guys lose the white circle in the bomb-sight that changes in color when you should drop ?? It happens every third battle here now ... start the battle and the circle is just missing. Makes it almost impossible to bomb accurately.

 

Have not had it happen in a bomber but I had my aiming reticle disappear last time I was on. Made it an interesting game but I still did pretty good.

comtedumas #28 Posted 11 April 2018 - 06:37 PM

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View PostGonerNL, on 11 April 2018 - 03:32 AM, said:

How often do you guys lose the white circle in the bomb-sight that changes in color when you should drop ?? It happens every third battle here now ... start the battle and the circle is just missing. Makes it almost impossible to bomb accurately.

 

I have had it happen on GAA but not on bombers yet.  

undergroundbadger #29 Posted 12 April 2018 - 05:01 PM

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View PostRonald_Jenkinson, on 10 April 2018 - 09:56 AM, said:

\Why are bombers getting such a soft run?

I've been flying teh R17 for a while.

I wouldn't say its a "soft" run.

best altitude is 2500meters. Max is 4000.

Its also tier 8, which means quite a few heavy fightes can fly higher and faster than you.
the ME262 is basically a bomber hunter and when my tailgunner starts shooting at one, by the time I switch to turret mode, I may have lost half my hit point. The pancake (weird looking US heavy fighter above the p38) often come after me.
basically, I bomb a target from 4000 meters to force heavy fighters to go out of their way to come after me. Whicih usually means I catch them on my radar circling like a vulture. Then I switch to turret view, and if they're really closing on my, I boost out and go to a different base.

I seem to remember the first bomber being pretty cool because it flew higher than pretty much everything. The second "high altitude" not so much. I didn't even bother my XP on the third one because it was so many xp points to purchase. 



undergroundbadger #30 Posted 12 April 2018 - 05:11 PM

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View PostRonald_Jenkinson, on 11 April 2018 - 03:15 AM, said:

if you don't count the damnably accurate AA.

I don't know if it actually makes a difference, but it feels like straight and level is when I get hit. 

it feels like I get better bomb hits if bomber is sltraight and level. if the bomb sight is swinging, they usually go a little wide and I don't toke out everything. so straight and level during the actual bomb run. 

As soon as that's over, switch to pilot view, and I start making S turns until I'm about half way to getting a new set of bomb, where I turn around and start heading to the target again. When I'm far away from the target, in bomber view, I'll zoom and try to pick targets, while makng smaller s turns. But when the reticle gets close, straight and level.

There's also a concealment upgrade you can get that reduces AA seeing you by 40% or so? I've tried it, I think it might help. There's also a pilot skill you can add with XP that increases concealment and armor and some other upgrades by a big chunk. Seem to remember maxing that out in my previous bomber.
On the RB17, I went for speed instead. The thing wants to cruise at 300 or 400kmh, most heavy fighters will cruise at 600. The RB can max out at 800kmh, but you have to boost and boost and boost to get their. The speed upgrades help you get their.



SgtSchlautter #31 Posted 12 April 2018 - 05:21 PM

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View PostI_QQ_4_U, on 11 April 2018 - 12:27 AM, said:

 

That's why I don't fly at really high altitudes unless I have to if no enemy fighters are bothering my I drop lower but still above the light AA, going higher gives me gunner more time to work on any heavies that might want to come up.

 

Fair point. As long as no one is threatening you, the low flying is fine. But absolutely gain altitude and use it to your advantage if you notice some bogies coming up to shoot you down

Ronald_Jenkinson #32 Posted 13 April 2018 - 01:12 AM

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OK, so I've spent some time flying lower, around 6,000 ft. I notice my damage and experience points are up and it's easier to cap a sector at this altitude. But in terms of targets destroyed, no improvement. My record at 10k is 16 targets, best I've done at 6k so far is 12 targets destroyed. At 10K I lose no time respawning or rejoining the fight, at 6K I'm much more vulnerable to AA and fighters.

What I don't understand is the disconnect between targets destroyed and damage/experience. Surely destroying a target should accrue maximum damage/experience points. So far it looks like if I want to take out lots of targets, stay safe and fly high. If I want to win games and score points, fly lower and take the damage from AA and hostiles. It shouldn't be either/or, taking out targets should win games and score max points.



Captain_Rownd #33 Posted 13 April 2018 - 01:22 AM

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View PostRonald_Jenkinson, on 10 April 2018 - 09:56 AM, said:

So far I've flown 30 missions in a T4 Dornier Do17 bomber and been shot down only 3 times by hostile aircraft. 

 

That's ridiculous.

 

It shouldn't be that hard to shoot down a bomber. 

 

I shoot them down now and then with my highest flying fighters when I spot that they're unmolested, but those were probably either bots or oblivious players with their heads in the bombsights?   However, most of the time I regret going after them since I'm out of the battle so long to try climbing up there, often failing to get enough altitude anyway.  I'm not sure if my harrassing them has a positive effect on the battle's outcome.  (as much as that's even possible)

SpiritFoxMY #34 Posted 13 April 2018 - 01:23 AM

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...but... winning is the only thing... if putting yourself in harms way increases the chances of winning, shouldn't THAT be the goal? Especially since you just said there's no real difference in your targets destroyed?

***

But a truce to this mournful story

For death is a distant friend

So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


mnbv_fockewulfe #35 Posted 13 April 2018 - 01:52 AM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 13 April 2018 - 01:23 AM, said:

...but... winning is the only thing... if putting yourself in harms way increases the chances of winning, shouldn't THAT be the goal? Especially since you just said there's no real difference in your targets destroyed?

 

Respawn devalues the risk of putting yourself in harms way. Therefore it's less rewarding. 

Be sure to check your logic privileges before posting on the forum.

 

mnbv_fockewulfe.png


 


SpiritFoxMY #36 Posted 13 April 2018 - 02:18 AM

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View Postmnbv_fockewulfe, on 13 April 2018 - 01:52 AM, said:

 

Respawn devalues the risk of putting yourself in harms way. Therefore it's less rewarding. 

 

And orbiting ineffectively at 3000m is more rewarding? Just... not dying while putting yourself in harms way should be reward enough respawn or not. Ain't the value, it's the principle.

***

But a truce to this mournful story

For death is a distant friend

So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


Ronald_Jenkinson #37 Posted 13 April 2018 - 03:41 AM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 13 April 2018 - 12:18 PM, said:

 

And orbiting ineffectively at 3000m is more rewarding? Just... not dying while putting yourself in harms way should be reward enough respawn or not. Ain't the value, it's the principle.

 

​My point is that I destroy as many targets "orbiting ineffectively at 3000m" as I do being a daredevil at 2000m, I just receive fewer damage/experience points for hitting the bullseye from further away!  Seems the algorithms are skewed to reward low level bombing.

Ronald_Jenkinson #38 Posted 13 April 2018 - 12:49 PM

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View PostCaptain_Rownd, on 13 April 2018 - 11:22 AM, said:

 

I shoot them down now and then with my highest flying fighters when I spot that they're unmolested, but those were probably either bots or oblivious players with their heads in the bombsights?   However, most of the time I regret going after them since I'm out of the battle so long to try climbing up there, often failing to get enough altitude anyway.  I'm not sure if my harrassing them has a positive effect on the battle's outcome.  (as much as that's even possible)

 

It is a pain to get up there after them, but I'm loathe to leave a sector if there's a bomber floating around up there ready to retake it.  What often happens to me is once I take the time to get up there and take out the bomber then there's a GA down amongst the weeds, zoom down after the GA, take care of him and the bomber's back!

comtedumas #39 Posted 15 April 2018 - 12:21 AM

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View Postmnbv_fockewulfe, on 12 April 2018 - 08:52 PM, said:

 

Respawn devalues the risk of putting yourself in harms way. Therefore it's less rewarding. 

 

actually, with bombers you need to get killed at least once to maximize xp gain.  I and others have verified this.  

Ronald_Jenkinson #40 Posted 15 April 2018 - 01:09 PM

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View Postcomtedumas, on 15 April 2018 - 10:21 AM, said:

 

actually, with bombers you need to get killed at least once to maximize xp gain.  I and others have verified this.  

 

Seriously? I wonder how you'd have gone telling the crews of Bomber Command that you're not really doing it right unless you get shot down occasionally.




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