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Early Me-262 grind play.


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Zergling #21 Posted 16 June 2018 - 04:49 AM

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View PostCorvusCorvax, on 16 June 2018 - 12:55 PM, said:

I don't have enough flights in the 262 to make a stats comparison yet - but I had a terrible time getting the 109Z to do even the stuff my Me-410 can still do, and that seem to be able to do in the 262.  Even when I went back to the 20mm guns, I still had a horrible time killing anything but other heavies and bombers.  The 262 is so fast, I can blow up a RB-17, then streak down and crush an IL-10.  Then fly back up and kill a heavy fighter.  Or just stoop from 3000 meters and at 900kph, just shred a light fighter, and be gone before they can even think about getting guns on you.

 

The Me 262 is almost completely useless against a LF or MF.

 

While I couldn't beat those in a dogfight with a 109Z, I had no problem keeping guns on target long enough to score a kill against them. In the Me 262 though? By the time I get in range, the LF/MF is able to break hard enough that I simply can't keep guns on target long enough to score a kill.

 

In the current meta, the 262 is totally inferior to the XF5U, which doesn't have any problems killing LF/MFs along with bombers/attackers.

 

 

EDIT: note that you are doing considerably better in the XF5U than you are in the Me 262:

Me 262: 4.65 Kills/Battle and 2643 Damage/Battle

XF5U: 7.50 Kills/Battle and 4505 Damage/Battle

 


Edited by Zergling, 16 June 2018 - 04:57 AM.


CorvusCorvax #22 Posted 16 June 2018 - 06:15 PM

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View PostZergling, on 16 June 2018 - 04:49 AM, said:

 

The Me 262 is almost completely useless against a LF or MF.

 

While I couldn't beat those in a dogfight with a 109Z, I had no problem keeping guns on target long enough to score a kill against them. In the Me 262 though? By the time I get in range, the LF/MF is able to break hard enough that I simply can't keep guns on target long enough to score a kill.

 

In the current meta, the 262 is totally inferior to the XF5U, which doesn't have any problems killing LF/MFs along with bombers/attackers.

 

 

EDIT: note that you are doing considerably better in the XF5U than you are in the Me 262:

Me 262: 4.65 Kills/Battle and 2643 Damage/Battle

XF5U: 7.50 Kills/Battle and 4505 Damage/Battle

 

 

The Pancake is way OP in this meta.  The 262 takes some actual skill to lay guns on target.  I have to change my entire gameplay style in order for the 262 to work, which is why it's too early to tell on the 262 whether I can compare it to other heavies.  I'm still learning how to fly it.  By the time it gets to be Specialist, I will know exactly how to kill all of the plane types in a single pass.  And now that I have rockets, I won't have to spend as much time screwing around with bombers.

pyantoryng #23 Posted 16 June 2018 - 07:05 PM

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View PostCorvusCorvax, on 17 June 2018 - 01:15 AM, said:

 

The Pancake is way OP in this meta.  The 262 takes some actual skill to lay guns on target.  I have to change my entire gameplay style in order for the 262 to work, which is why it's too early to tell on the 262 whether I can compare it to other heavies.  I'm still learning how to fly it.  By the time it gets to be Specialist, I will know exactly how to kill all of the plane types in a single pass.  And now that I have rockets, I won't have to spend as much time screwing around with bombers.

 

Huh? I thought R4Ms fare poorly against bombers...

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Zergling #24 Posted 17 June 2018 - 12:22 AM

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View PostCorvusCorvax, on 17 June 2018 - 04:15 AM, said:

The Pancake is way OP in this meta.

 

Not even remotely true. The XF5U is about where heavies should be.



SpiritFoxMY #25 Posted 17 June 2018 - 02:17 AM

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View Postpyantoryng, on 17 June 2018 - 03:05 AM, said:

Huh? I thought R4Ms fare poorly against bombers...

 

Insofar as you need to unload all 24 of them to down one. But that's still one instant bomber kill.

 

Also, this is pre 2.0.5. I dunno about the 262 but I can strap bigger warheads on my B.V. rockets now. 


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CorvusCorvax #26 Posted 17 June 2018 - 11:33 PM

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View PostZergling, on 17 June 2018 - 12:22 AM, said:

 

Not even remotely true. The XF5U is about where heavies should be.

 

In comparison to what?  If I can fly around at T8 and kill everything without thinking, that's too strong.  The plane's only weakness is how fast it turns, otherwise it just absolutely dominates in the hands of even a so-so pilot.  If I can make it sing with so few battle in it, that means it is OP for the meta.

Zergling #27 Posted 18 June 2018 - 12:21 AM

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View PostCorvusCorvax, on 18 June 2018 - 09:33 AM, said:

In comparison to what?  If I can fly around at T8 and kill everything without thinking, that's too strong.  The plane's only weakness is how fast it turns, otherwise it just absolutely dominates in the hands of even a so-so pilot.  If I can make it sing with so few battle in it, that means it is OP for the meta.

 

In comparison to LF/MFs. Most HFs are underpowered in the current meta, as they simply can't influence the battle as much as a plane brawling in a cap circle does.

 

A friend of mine is doing 12.27 Kills/Battle in the XF5U, versus a ridiculous 15.89 Kills/Battle in the Spitfire 14 and 13.25 Kills/Battle in the P-80A.

That same friend does 11.00 Kills/Battle in the Bf 109 Z, yet does 17.82 Kills/Battle in the Spitfire 9 and 17.67 Kills/Battle in the F4U-4.

 

And hell, if the Me 262 wasn't underpowered I'd be achieving somewhat comparable stats to the P-80A, instead of half the Kills/Battles along with less damage.

 

 

EDIT: but keep your delusions if you want, I'm outta here. I've uninstalled and won't be back.

 


Edited by Zergling, 18 June 2018 - 01:50 AM.


CorvusCorvax #28 Posted 18 June 2018 - 03:27 PM

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View PostZergling, on 18 June 2018 - 12:21 AM, said:

 

 

 

 

EDIT: but keep your delusions if you want, I'm outta here. I've uninstalled and won't be back.

 

Heh.  Well, I'm not delusional about liking the 262 more than the 109Z.  And it seems you're the only one who thinks that the Pancake is UP.  The only thing that holds the 262 back is the slow 30mm guns with the slower shells, and the poor range on those shells.  if you're shooting at targets with 90 degrees of deflection, you're doing it wrong.  Best is to shoot with 30 degrees or less, unless the target is moving very slowly in relation to you.  a 90-degree hit&run on a GAA can give you a shoot-down in two passes, as long as you aren't being molested by top cover.

 

Sorry to hear that you're out.  Maybe WG will do something worthwhile in the next patch that will bring you back.



Zergling #29 Posted 19 June 2018 - 11:33 PM

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I'm not doing anything wrong with the Me 262, the plane is just terrible for the existing meta.

 

Edited by Zergling, 20 June 2018 - 02:23 AM.


Zergling #30 Posted 20 June 2018 - 02:26 AM

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View PostCorvusCorvax, on 19 June 2018 - 01:27 AM, said:

Heh.  Well, I'm not delusional about liking the 262 more than the 109Z.  And it seems you're the only one who thinks that the Pancake is UP.  The only thing that holds the 262 back is the slow 30mm guns with the slower shells, and the poor range on those shells.  if you're shooting at targets with 90 degrees of deflection, you're doing it wrong.  Best is to shoot with 30 degrees or less, unless the target is moving very slowly in relation to you.  a 90-degree hit&run on a GAA can give you a shoot-down in two passes, as long as you aren't being molested by top cover.

 

I'm not doing anything wrong with the Me 262, the plane is just terrible for the existing meta.

 

 

And talking down to me by suggesting I'm doing something wrong is hilarious when you compare our stats:

 

You are doing 5.00 Air Kills/Battle, 3129 Air Damage/Battle, 0.03 Ground Kills/Battle and 192 Ground Damage/Battle in the Me 262
I was doing 6.38 Air Kills/Battle, 5,724 Air Damage/Battle, 0.69 Ground Kills/Battle and 3343 Ground Damage/Battle in the Me 262
 
You have a 54.14% winrate overall
I have a 73.52% winrate overall
 
 
You are free to say you like the plane, but don't claim you're doing good in it, and don't say other players must be doing something wrong.
 


CorvusCorvax #31 Posted 25 June 2018 - 02:43 PM

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View PostZergling, on 20 June 2018 - 02:26 AM, said:

 

I'm not doing anything wrong with the Me 262, the plane is just terrible for the existing meta.

 

 

And talking down to me by suggesting I'm doing something wrong is hilarious when you compare our stats:

 

You are doing 5.00 Air Kills/Battle, 3129 Air Damage/Battle, 0.03 Ground Kills/Battle and 192 Ground Damage/Battle in the Me 262
I was doing 6.38 Air Kills/Battle, 5,724 Air Damage/Battle, 0.69 Ground Kills/Battle and 3343 Ground Damage/Battle in the Me 262
 
You have a 54.14% winrate overall
I have a 73.52% winrate overall
 
 
You are free to say you like the plane, but don't claim you're doing good in it, and don't say other players must be doing something wrong.
 

 

If anyone has ever told you that you were a wit, I can say, for certain, that they were half right.

 

Let's start at the end, and work our way back, shall we?  Stats are awesome, but they can be gamed.  If I played 10 battles a day for the next 100 days, I could have a 75+% win rate.  How?  By farming wins at low tier.  My win rate at tiers 1-3 currently is over 90%.  At T1, better than 95%  So, your numbers don't impress, and even more so when I know that a couple of players who routinely fly together at T5-7 have win rates at near 90% at T5.  Thousands of battles, flighted, they are essentially seal-clubbing at T6.  They never fly solo.  Never.

 

It is super-easy to farm stats if your flight partner is any good, and allows you to fly around unmolested. BTDT.  So, I'll take your stats as meaningless, because they are exactly that.

 

Now, who claimed anything about doing well in a plane?  Me?  Nope.  I claimed I liked it better than the 109Z.  It suits me better, and here's what I said, twice, that you seem to have missed (on purpose, undoubtedly):  I haven't flown the plane enough yet to fully learn it.  I know some stuff pretty well, and other stuff not so well.  

 

The reason I said you're doing something wrong is because you admitted it yourself - this aircraft doesn't turn well.  "While I couldn't beat those in a dogfight with a 109Z, I had no problem keeping guns on target long enough to score a kill against them. In the Me 262 though? By the time I get in range, the LF/MF is able to break hard enough that I simply can't keep guns on target long enough to score a kill."  That's what you wrote.  So, if you're trying to do turny stuff in the 262, you're doing it wrong.  By your own account.  So, guess what?  Don't do turny stuff in a 262 (or any HF, for that matter.)

 

You're the one that jumped in here talking a bunch of crap.  I told you I prefer one plane over another, and you want to make it into a wiener-measuring contest.  Your silly preference for the 109Z and your inability to make the 262 work isn't my problem, and it's just as well you've moved on to some other plane that's easier for you to comprehend.  You seem like the type who needs a bit of a break where a learning curve is involved.



mnbv_fockewulfe #32 Posted 25 June 2018 - 06:51 PM

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Turny stuff is different from snap shot aiming.

Turny stuff is making at least 180 degree turn.

Snap shot aiming is at most 90 degree.

I may not be the best pilot.

But I'm a crack shot in a pinch.

Or at least I used to be... 


Edited by mnbv_fockewulfe, 25 June 2018 - 06:51 PM.

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CorvusCorvax #33 Posted 25 June 2018 - 07:40 PM

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View Postmnbv_fockewulfe, on 25 June 2018 - 06:51 PM, said:

Turny stuff is different from snap shot aiming.

Turny stuff is making at least 180 degree turn.

Snap shot aiming is at most 90 degree.

I may not be the best pilot.

But I'm a crack shot in a pinch.

Or at least I used to be... 

 

Cool troll, bro.

 

Hey, turny stuff is ANY kind of turny stuff.  Angular velocity is angular velocity, regardless of how many degrees of turn you make.  You can personally define it however you want, but the physics don't care about your personal definition.

 

If you are trying to make a 262 into a turny kind of fighter, you're doing it wrong.  It is almost the ultimate expression of the vertical BnZ.  Taking a MR or LF from behind at less than 30 degrees deflection is almost a guaranteed victory.  Trying to snapshot at 90 degrees is almost certain to bring disappointment.  Even for good aimers such as yourself.  keeping those slow guns with slow shells on-target long enough to get a kill will be frustrating.  I have the stats to prove it!



mnbv_fockewulfe #34 Posted 25 June 2018 - 08:22 PM

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View PostCorvusCorvax, on 25 June 2018 - 07:40 PM, said:

 

Cool troll, bro.

 

Hey, turny stuff is ANY kind of turny stuff.  Angular velocity is angular velocity, regardless of how many degrees of turn you make.  You can personally define it however you want, but the physics don't care about your personal definition.

 

If you are trying to make a 262 into a turny kind of fighter, you're doing it wrong.  It is almost the ultimate expression of the vertical BnZ.  Taking a MR or LF from behind at less than 30 degrees deflection is almost a guaranteed victory.  Trying to snapshot at 90 degrees is almost certain to bring disappointment.  Even for good aimers such as yourself.  keeping those slow guns with slow shells on-target long enough to get a kill will be frustrating.  I have the stats to prove it!

 

Oh no! I can't use my yaw to aim anymore in my BnZ plane because it's turny stuff! Forget allowing myself to pull out of a dive! Or heaven forbid vertical loops!:ohmy::ohmy::ohmy:

p.s. I'm going to ignore that "turny stuff" doesn't have a proper physics definition.  

 

p.p.s. Are we the new "MARSCO" and "Nancy Drew?"


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CorvusCorvax #35 Posted 25 June 2018 - 11:25 PM

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View Postmnbv_fockewulfe, on 25 June 2018 - 08:22 PM, said:

 

Oh no! I can't use my yaw to aim anymore in my BnZ plane because it's turny stuff! Forget allowing myself to pull out of a dive!

p.s. I'm going to ignore that "turny stuff" doesn't have a proper physics definition.  

 

p.p.s. Are we the new "MARSCO" and "Nancy Drew?"

Pulling out of a dive is pitch.  Yaw is movement about the vertical axis.  Both can contribute to angular velocity - no need to be pedantic (except to troll, of course - which is fun, I admit). 

 

I mean, seriously, it's fun, but I am trying to be serious - the 262 is really crappy at turning, no matter which control surfaces you are trying to use.  If you are in a 900kph  vertical dive and want to recover (not smack into the ground), if you start your recovery at much less than 700m, you are going to be respawning.  I personally have never tried at anything less than 1000m, because I was afraid.

 

Very afraid.

 

And the thing takes, what, about ten minutes to make a full 360-degree circle?  Come on, even wounded GAA and bombers can turn inside this thing.  Straight lines and speed - the Me-262 is a drag racer, not a canyon carver.



mnbv_fockewulfe #36 Posted 26 June 2018 - 12:13 AM

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Diving at 500km/h is at minimum a 284 turning radius.

At 800km/h it's roughly a 500m radius.
 

You can cut it a little closer.


 


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CorvusCorvax #37 Posted 26 June 2018 - 12:29 AM

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View Postmnbv_fockewulfe, on 26 June 2018 - 12:13 AM, said:

Diving at 500km/h is at minimum a 284 turning radius.

At 800km/h it's roughly a 500m radius.
 

You can cut it a little closer.


 

 

Yes.  At 1000kph and full flaps, you can eke out survival from a 90-degree dive if you begin your pull at 750m.  But I was less than 100m from the ground when I did it, so I would not recommend it to anyone.  But that was a full 90 degrees, and that's not really a great attack posture.  You want to try a 60-degree dive on a target that you can easily pass by without control input until you have passed.  This is harder on a GAA - you have to dive until you reach gun range, open up, then get past without smacking into terra firma. Oh, and set up for the next pass.  Don't forget that part, LOL.

Zergling #38 Posted 10 July 2018 - 04:48 PM

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View PostCorvusCorvax, on 26 June 2018 - 12:43 AM, said:

If anyone has ever told you that you were a wit, I can say, for certain, that they were half right.

 

Let's start at the end, and work our way back, shall we?  Stats are awesome, but they can be gamed.  If I played 10 battles a day for the next 100 days, I could have a 75+% win rate.  How?  By farming wins at low tier.  My win rate at tiers 1-3 currently is over 90%.  At T1, better than 95%  So, your numbers don't impress, and even more so when I know that a couple of players who routinely fly together at T5-7 have win rates at near 90% at T5.  Thousands of battles, flighted, they are essentially seal-clubbing at T6.  They never fly solo.  Never.

 

It is super-easy to farm stats if your flight partner is any good, and allows you to fly around unmolested. BTDT.  So, I'll take your stats as meaningless, because they are exactly that.

 

Now, who claimed anything about doing well in a plane?  Me?  Nope.  I claimed I liked it better than the 109Z.  It suits me better, and here's what I said, twice, that you seem to have missed (on purpose, undoubtedly):  I haven't flown the plane enough yet to fully learn it.  I know some stuff pretty well, and other stuff not so well.  

 

The reason I said you're doing something wrong is because you admitted it yourself - this aircraft doesn't turn well.  "While I couldn't beat those in a dogfight with a 109Z, I had no problem keeping guns on target long enough to score a kill against them. In the Me 262 though? By the time I get in range, the LF/MF is able to break hard enough that I simply can't keep guns on target long enough to score a kill."  That's what you wrote.  So, if you're trying to do turny stuff in the 262, you're doing it wrong.  By your own account.  So, guess what?  Don't do turny stuff in a 262 (or any HF, for that matter.)

 

You're the one that jumped in here talking a bunch of crap.  I told you I prefer one plane over another, and you want to make it into a wiener-measuring contest.  Your silly preference for the 109Z and your inability to make the 262 work isn't my problem, and it's just as well you've moved on to some other plane that's easier for you to comprehend.  You seem like the type who needs a bit of a break where a learning curve is involved.

 

As I said before and I'll say again, you're delusional.

 

With your textbook "I COULD HAVE AWESOME STATS IF I TRIED!" and "YOU MUST BE GAMING YOUR STATS!" excuses, you demonstrate your delusion is Dunning-Kruger syndrome; you are so terrible at the game you lack the very skills to realise how terrible you are.

 

GG for demonstrating the sort of epic tier player stupidity that has destroyed WoWP.

 

tl:dr you don't know crapabout how to play the game, so shut up and don't talk down to your betters, scrub

 


Edited by Zergling, 10 July 2018 - 04:57 PM.


CorvusCorvax #39 Posted 10 July 2018 - 06:18 PM

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View PostZergling, on 10 July 2018 - 04:48 PM, said:

 

 

 

tl:dr you don't know crapabout how to play the game, so shut up and don't talk down to your betters, scrub

 

You're the one admitting as to not knowing how to fly a plane, and you're tossing these idiotic comments around?

 

You define the word "irony".



MadJackChurchil #40 Posted 26 July 2018 - 09:35 PM

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To do a bit of resurrection of discussion (if someone wants to resurrect the personal attacks, let me know), one observation. The Rocketeer skills with Me262 makes quite a difference. Before that skill the rockets were essentially useless. Now, well, head-on against the Me262 has turned from very bad idea into an extremely bad idea. And well behaving bombers and GAA (those who do not turn when I get on their tail) are not happy either.

 

Btw, 'irony' is the stuff do you with shirts before the job interview, right?






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