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Fix to Japan Cannons


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Anubis_TD #1 Posted 01 April 2018 - 04:37 AM

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With the leak/possible Japan heavy line on the horizon; this is the time to adjust/fix the Japanese guns.

Most nations’ guns are fairly accurate to history with the standard adjustment:

All RPM is half reality for most guns and 1/3 for rotary, revolver and Gatling guns, and effective distance is roughly equal to velocity (50's and 30's lmgs have a decaying ratio).

 

Japan is the exception. (Doing Type 99 first to show the problem with the army guns)

 

20 MM’s

 

Type 99 Mk1 Mod 1/3 = irl: 530 rpm and 520 m/s (in game it’s 360 rpm by 600- 640 m range, 65/75 Dps)

but it is a big round and should hit hard (I will adjust shell to keep DPM the same)

In game, it should be 265 rpm, 520 m range, and  66/75 dps

(to maintain dps, shells go from 12 dam/rnd to 15 and 17 respectively for each mod)

 

Type 99 Mk 2 Mod 1-4 = irl: 480 rpm and 750 m/s (in game it’s 360 rpm, 700 m and 94 dps)

the increase velocity should add enough damage to compensate for the drop in RPM plus easier to shoot.

In game it should be 240 rpm and 750 range, 80 dps (shell dam up from 15.5 to 20).

 

Type 99 Mod 5 = irl: 750 rpm and 750 m/s (400 rpm, 740 m, and 110 dps) this is a major jump for this gun.

 

In game should be 375 rpm, 750 range and 125 dps

This would put it slightly better than the Mk V (which it should be)

 

The Ki line Ho5 is another problem and it is why the 30’s are a mess, they are too weak as they advance.

 

The Ho 5 in reality was a fabulous gun designed for 850 rpm at 715 m/s,

but poor alloys caused them to lower that to 750 rpm to avoid damage.

This was a small round so should do less dam per round than the Hispano and Type 99.

 

Ho5 I = irl: 750 rpm and 715 m/s (in game is 360 rpm, 600 range and  60 dps (10 dam/shell))

Problem this guns shows up at T5 and 715 range may be a bit much.

In game should be 375 rpm, 715m and 62.5 dps keep range down

 

This is the gun it should be if they had decent alloys

Ho5 II = irl: 850 rpm and 715 m/s (in game is 400 rpm, 640 range and 75 dps (11.2 dam/shell)

The problem is this is really on the low side for T7 20 mm.

If you buff it you could remove the 30 mm and have a more balanced Ki-84;

plus you could then buff the 30’s to proper performance without breaking T7

 

So in game should be, 425 rpm, 715 m and 99.5 dps (14 dam/shell).

Still on the low side for the tier but definitely more comparable;

and the quad 20 ki-84 would not suffer with this lay out being a fantastic plane.

 

30 MM

 

IRL

Ho 155 I  = 400 rpm and 650 – 710 m/s

Ho 155 II = 500 rpm and 650 – 710 m/s

Round is 245 g’s (about the same size as an Aden shell and make a reasonable comparison)

 

In game

Ho 155 II  =  160 dps (48.5 per shell), 200 rpm, and 580 m range

Ho 155 III =  240 dps (56 per shell) , 260 rpm and 650 m

(no idea why they went II and III rather than I and II)

 

So with the removal of the 30 from the Ki-84 the 30’s can get a boost they need.

Aden DPS is 330 = 66 per shell.  

Using 66 dam/shell number for the Ho155’s u get

 

Ho 155 I (II in game) = 200 rpm, 650 m and 220 dps

Ho 155 II (III in game) = 250 rpm, 710 m and 275 dps

(there are shells that are 710 m/s, I believe it is the AP but needs a boast over the Type I)

Not a big jump but the boast in velocity would be nice and needed for the Ki-162’s

 

Type 2 and Type 5

 

IRL

Type 2 = 400 rpm and 710 m/s and 265g shell (same as the Aden)

Type 5 = 500 rpm and 760 m/s and 345g shell (German mk103/108/213 are all 330g)

 

In game

Type 2 = 160 rpm, 580 m, and 200 dps (74 dam/shell)

Type 5 = 170 rpm, 580 m, and 220 dps (78.6 dam/shell)

Type 17 = 200 rpm, 640 m, and 300 dps (91 dam/shell)

 

As you can see the IJN 30’s are severely underperforming in terms of velocity.

The main reason if I had to guess is the J7W would be super OP. But let’s run the numbers. (have an idea I'll post at the bottom to address this)

Here are German numbers (irl in brackets)

Mk 108 = 240 (600) rpm, 616 m (505m/s), and 200 dps (50 dam/shell)

Mk213/30 = 330 (1000) rpm, 700 m (505 m/s), 350 dps (64 dam/shell) (this is a revolver cannon)

Mk103 Ta152/Do335 = 60/90 (360) rpm, 950/1000 m (860 m/s), and  140/210 dps ( 140 dam per shell)

 

Mk108 is a bit low on Rpm and Dam/shell should be no different than the Mk213.

Both should have lower effective range.  

Mk103 has half the rpm it should in game but dbl the dam to make up for it,

For comparison: dbl the rpm and 1/2 the damage and you get 70 dam/shell.

 

Now look at the Type 5’s range.

It should have a 255 m/s and range advantages on the 2 low velocity cannons; but both easily outperform it.

 

What should they look like?

Remember the Type 2 should hit about the same as the Ho 155 and the Type 5 more like a Mk 103

(to be honest mk103 is also underpowered in terms of shell power)

Type 2 should be

200 rpm, 700 m, and 220 dps (66 dam/shell)

 

Type 5

250 rpm, 760 m, and 291 dps (70 dam/shell)

 

Type 17 (an upgraded Type 5, I assume; so buff the shell damage from our Type 5)

250 rpm, 760 m, and 313 dps (75 dam/shell)

 

Now, I am not actually complaining about damage (which is why I keep adjusting them so they don’t change too much) but the round velocity is too low as is the rpms for the 30’s.

 

One last thing:

Take this idea and think on it.

Turn the J7W line into an IJN canard HF line.

Their firepower fits better as HF and these planes should be faster than they are; plus these were high alt planes.

Not to mention this would remove the need to nerf the 30's on this line.

They would need to be speed buffed, J7W1 tops out at 740 km/hr right now (historically listed at 760)

So if you buff it to start at 760 km/hr (each engine give same speed boast, u top out at 790 km/h), dive to 900 and big buff to cruising 525 km/h and Alt buff to 2000 m,  while nerf turn to 12.5.

Also remove bombs, this should help hinder some effectiveness, plus they never were able to carry them.

Follow the trend to T10.

 

This gives you a good turning but slower than average HF.

 

Also, J4M1 can be add at T7, similar to Premium but no bombs with upgrades to a Type 5 cannon.

 

J4M prem should be changed to HF (apply necessary class changes ie alt and cruising)

 

Ki-94 I, pushes up to T8 (no need for 2 at 7) gets a speed buff to fit at T8 and turn buff to fit the Japanese style.

 

Sets a nice tone for future Ki HF line.

 

btw nice little website for guns this guys did lots of work 

http://users.skynet....un/fgun-pe.html

 

Tell i have too much time on my hands avoiding playing invasion :D


Edited by Anubis_TD, 01 April 2018 - 04:46 AM.


J311yfish #2 Posted 01 April 2018 - 11:44 AM

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Japanese armament and implications (source: Mikesh)

-- updated 04/01/2018


Edited by J311yfish, 01 April 2018 - 03:18 PM.

Tech tree projects:  JAPAN    UNITED KINGDOM  //  Italy    France  //  Sweden    Finland (skins)    Poland    China    Brazil    UNITED STATES  //  Roadmap

Map proposals:  Panama Canal    Great Wall of China    Cliffs of Dover  //  Clan:  343 Kokutai  //  Tutorial How to ignore forum posts and signatures


Anubis_TD #3 Posted 01 April 2018 - 03:13 PM

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not sure what you're trying to point out. 

 

 



J311yfish #4 Posted 01 April 2018 - 03:27 PM

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Data in links above are from Robert Mikesh's Japanese Aircraft Equipment 1940-1945 (Schiffer 2004).  I am sharing it with you for at least 2 reasons:

-- 1) a published source which can be used to substantiate or validate information posted on that website.  It is not among the sources listed

-- 2) the chosen format ties the historical information directly to aircraft in-game, with links provided.

 

Of course, this says nothing about Japanese cannons and whether they could or should be changed, or not -- I have no opinion on the matter -- I am just sharing information.

 

Block Quote

 With the leak/possible Japan heavy line on the horizon

 

I am also posting because that ^ got my attention.  What is the source of your information?

 


Edited by J311yfish, 01 April 2018 - 03:28 PM.

Tech tree projects:  JAPAN    UNITED KINGDOM  //  Italy    France  //  Sweden    Finland (skins)    Poland    China    Brazil    UNITED STATES  //  Roadmap

Map proposals:  Panama Canal    Great Wall of China    Cliffs of Dover  //  Clan:  343 Kokutai  //  Tutorial How to ignore forum posts and signatures


Anubis_TD #5 Posted 01 April 2018 - 04:22 PM

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guys in my clan reported it from RU and EU sources, nothing substantial as of yet but sources say they have contact within WG

 

so I did this because god knows the current Army guns are going to be bad on a HF



Anubis_TD #6 Posted 01 April 2018 - 04:34 PM

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Ki HF line, My hope it looks something like this
 
 
 
iV: Ki-45, V: Ki-96, VI: Ki-93, VII: Ki-83, VIII: Ki-201, IX: Ki201 Kai (fiction buffed heavily 201), X: Ki-201 II (fiction Think R2Y2 V2 mating with a HG3)
3rd one down is the R2Y I mean: side vents similar to the J7W's
 

Attached Thumbnails


Edited by Anubis_TD, 01 April 2018 - 04:35 PM.





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