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Lunch Hour Listen: Are We Already Living in Virtual Reality?

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Ace_BOTlistic_Cosmo #1 Posted 26 March 2018 - 04:01 PM

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Lunch Hour Listen:

Are We Already Living in Virtual Reality?

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/04/02/are-we-already-living-in-virtual-reality?

 

 

 

 


if the pilot's good, see, I mean, if he's really..sharp, he can barrel that baby in so low [he spreads his arms like wings and laughs],

you oughtta see it sometime, it's a sight. A big plane like a '52. VRROOM! There's jet exhaust, fryin' chickens in the barnyard.


Prenzlau #2 Posted 26 March 2018 - 04:32 PM

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Wow Ace, nothing like opening up the most epic of rabbit holes. The ultimate question, who the freak am I? The ultimate answer, I don't freaking know! Not everyone is wired for this stuff, and its not a knock on intelligence, like quantum physics it eventually becomes far less science and far more philosophy and belief. The definite falls away and the indefinite takes over. But FUN, oh yes... I cannot wait to read what comes next? Since I study this stuff, this might be the single most interesting post I have ever seen on these forums, but that's just my opinion.

 

For those who want "a lot" more, try this Research Article. 

 

https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0801/0801.0337.pdf

 

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MARS_REVENANT #3 Posted 26 March 2018 - 04:37 PM

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View PostAce_BOTlistic_Cosmo, on 26 March 2018 - 11:01 AM, said:

Lunch Hour Listen:

Are We Already Living in Virtual Reality?

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/04/02/are-we-already-living-in-virtual-reality?

 

 

 

 

 

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NorthernPorter #4 Posted 26 March 2018 - 04:56 PM

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This is trippy... My mind is blown now trying to process this.

 

After listening to it, I feel like you could say we ARE living a virtual reality. But it still leaves the question of what is there when we leave the VR/die. Do the instruments in the cockpit just crash and stop collect a sum of the readings? Is the explanation of the end in VR terms really any different than the description of the afterlife by the various religions. *That's just a rhetorical questions though, I don't want to turn this thread into a religious debate. Its just what I'm pondering.

 

That aside, I really like the idea of this being used to treat criminals, those who are abusive, or those with prejudice tendencies by putting them in the point of view of their target. And then I am also intrigued with it being used to be you're own psychologist in a way to get a better or deeper understanding of something that troubles you. I think that would be so helpful.

 

Awesome find, thanks for sharing! I'm going to be contemplating this for a while.


Edited by NorthernPorter, 26 March 2018 - 05:02 PM.


Perco_lator #5 Posted 26 March 2018 - 05:54 PM

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mnbv_fockewulfe #6 Posted 26 March 2018 - 08:55 PM

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First off,

the author fails to distinguish between imagination and perception of reality.

The use of VR for out of body experiences is only an assistant to your imagination as the same affect can be achieved in a dream or even just reading a book. And tricking your brain isn't that hard. Optical illusions do it all the time and it's incredible what you can actually convince yourself to believe (Hypochondriasis). Your main source of feedback comes from your eyesight. The way your brain works with what you see you're brain is actually filling in a lot of blank spaces with prior experiences. For example your sense of balance. Your sense of balance comes from two main sources, your eyes, and the liquid inside your ear. Your brain interprets the messages it gets from both simultaneously, but what if one source is giving you an input and the other isn't? your brain will fill in the gaps. For example: your sitting parked in your car and you look out the side window and see a car moving to the right. If your brain starts with the assumption, "Oh, well, that car can't possibly be driving away. Let's see, when do things appear to move like that? Well, things move relative to me when I'm moving, and I know that car isn't moving, so therefore I must be backing out of my parking space." Your brain doesn't feel any acceleration on your body but since it's convinced it knows what's going on it fills in the gap and triggers the feel of moving to match what it's getting from the eyes. The sensation only tends to last a second or two but I'm pretty sure most of you guys know what I'm talking about. Another example: say your at your desk at work and you've got one of those wheely chairs and you start spinning yourself. After spinning for a while, you stop. But you still feel like your spinning and your vision still looks like its going around. This is because the liquid in your ear is still spinning around. Your brain receives this input and says, "Oh, my ear is telling me I'm spinning, therefore I must still be spinning." And since your brain interprets the photons that are hitting your eye into an image, your brain fills in the gap it's getting from your eyes that says your looking at a stationary frame, and creates an image that is congruent with the affect of spinning (motion blur, lateral movement, etc). Point being, because your brain has to fill in so many gaps with prior assumptions based on previous experiences, it's actually very easy to trick the brain by taking advantage of those prior assumptions. But now you must be thinking, "but fockewulfe, why is this post so long and how do I tell the difference between actual reality and my brain being tricked?" Well to answer the second question, the distinct can be made with the application of human "rationality" and "reason". Here I must note that I subscribe to the (meta-physical) theory that brain is just an interface between the body and the (for the sake of secularity) "mind" and is not the producer of "thoughts", "personality", or "reason". If the brain were the source of these human attributes, there would be no validity for any argument ever because of the randomness and arbitrariness of such a purely physical source. As the brain as an interface, and since it doesn't produce thought but rather the mind does, this means what the mind thinks and how the brain responds can be two different things. I can think with my mind, "press buttons on the keyboard to make words" and my brain goes through all the calculations and creates the impulse message to my muscles to carry out that specific task. In other words, I can think "objectively" and the result produced by my brain can sometimes be "subjectively" executed. For example: if I get drunk (like ACE) and my judgment is impaired by the affects of alcohol on my brain, my brain will be impaired from interpreting commands from my "mind". My mind might be thinking, "walk in a straight line" but since my brain is doing the calculations, an objectively straight line won't  be achieved. With all this in mind, your mind has the ability to "abstract" and determine the cause and effect of a given situation. You can know something objectively because your mind is not affect by what your body or brain experiences. Further argument requires the assumption that "memory" is also objective and I shan't bother to prove it (memory for the sake of this post is tided to the "mind" and is partially stored in the brain).


 

TL;DR

never trust hippies from the 80s.


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Ace_BOTlistic_Cosmo #7 Posted 26 March 2018 - 10:17 PM

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View Postmnbv_fockewulfe, on 26 March 2018 - 03:55 PM, said:

First off,

the author fails to distinguish between imagination and perception of reality.

The use of VR for out of body experiences is only an assistant to your imagination as the same affect can be achieved in a dream or even just reading a book. And tricking your brain isn't that hard. Optical illusions do it all the time and it's incredible what you can actually convince yourself to believe (Hypochondriasis). Your main source of feedback comes from your eyesight. The way your brain works with what you see you're brain is actually filling in a lot of blank spaces with prior experiences. For example your sense of balance. Your sense of balance comes from two main sources, your eyes, and the liquid inside your ear. Your brain interprets the messages it gets from both simultaneously, but what if one source is giving you an input and the other isn't? your brain will fill in the gaps. For example: your sitting parked in your car and you look out the side window and see a car moving to the right. If your brain starts with the assumption, "Oh, well, that car can't possibly be driving away. Let's see, when do things appear to move like that? Well, things move relative to me when I'm moving, and I know that car isn't moving, so therefore I must be backing out of my parking space." Your brain doesn't feel any acceleration on your body but since it's convinced it knows what's going on it fills in the gap and triggers the feel of moving to match what it's getting from the eyes. The sensation only tends to last a second or two but I'm pretty sure most of you guys know what I'm talking about. Another example: say your at your desk at work and you've got one of those wheely chairs and you start spinning yourself. After spinning for a while, you stop. But you still feel like your spinning and your vision still looks like its going around. This is because the liquid in your ear is still spinning around. Your brain receives this input and says, "Oh, my ear is telling me I'm spinning, therefore I must still be spinning." And since your brain interprets the photons that are hitting your eye into an image, your brain fills in the gap it's getting from your eyes that says your looking at a stationary frame, and creates an image that is congruent with the affect of spinning (motion blur, lateral movement, etc). Point being, because your brain has to fill in so many gaps with prior assumptions based on previous experiences, it's actually very easy to trick the brain by taking advantage of those prior assumptions. But now you must be thinking, "but fockewulfe, why is this post so long and how do I tell the difference between actual reality and my brain being tricked?" Well to answer the second question, the distinct can be made with the application of human "rationality" and "reason". Here I must note that I subscribe to the (meta-physical) theory that brain is just an interface between the body and the (for the sake of secularity) "mind" and is not the producer of "thoughts", "personality", or "reason". If the brain were the source of these human attributes, there would be no validity for any argument ever because of the randomness and arbitrariness of such a purely physical source. As the brain as an interface, and since it doesn't produce thought but rather the mind does, this means what the mind thinks and how the brain responds can be two different things. I can think with my mind, "press buttons on the keyboard to make words" and my brain goes through all the calculations and creates the impulse message to my muscles to carry out that specific task. In other words, I can think "objectively" and the result produced by my brain can sometimes be "subjectively" executed. For example: if I get drunk (like ACE) and my judgment is impaired by the affects of alcohol on my brain, my brain will be impaired from interpreting commands from my "mind". My mind might be thinking, "walk in a straight line" but since my brain is doing the calculations, an objectively straight line won't  be achieved. With all this in mind, your mind has the ability to "abstract" and determine the cause and effect of a given situation. You can know something objectively because your mind is not affect by what your body or brain experiences. Further argument requires the assumption that "memory" is also objective and I shan't bother to prove it (memory for the sake of this post is tided to the "mind" and is partially stored in the brain).


 

TL;DR

never trust hippies from the 80s.

but trust those 60's & 70's hippies at every turn... hehe

maybe or
lol... it's all perspective...
what if really you (or anyone for that matter) were just a slug who thought you were a gods of knowledge...
perspective of your understanding of science could be just like a religion, or worse...
presently accepted science explains things that make us comfortable with our perceived reality and... it makes sense
what would people have argued truth 60,000 years ago, 2,000 years ago, 400 years ago and just 80 years ago and what about 40 to 80 years from now
I'm not saying anything against accepted factual beliefs... but I'll stay open to what could be

.

.

.

and it's fun to think about... hehe


if the pilot's good, see, I mean, if he's really..sharp, he can barrel that baby in so low [he spreads his arms like wings and laughs],

you oughtta see it sometime, it's a sight. A big plane like a '52. VRROOM! There's jet exhaust, fryin' chickens in the barnyard.


mnbv_fockewulfe #8 Posted 26 March 2018 - 10:23 PM

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View PostAce_BOTlistic_Cosmo, on 26 March 2018 - 10:17 PM, said:

maybe or
lol... it's all perspective...
what if really you (or anyone for that matter) were just a slug who thought you were a gods of knowledge...
perspective of your understanding of science could be just like a religion, or worse...
presently accepted science explains things that make us comfortable with our perceived reality and... it makes sense
what would people have argued truth 60,000 years ago, 2,000 years ago, 400 years ago and just 80 years ago and what about 40 to 80 years from now
I'm not saying anything against accepted factual beliefs... but I'll stay open to what could be

.

.

.

and it's fun to think about... hehe

 

Hey, I think it's possible to go faster than light.:hiding:

 


 

Here's to mathematical models that don't accurately model reality. :bajan:


Be sure to check your logic privileges before posting on the forum.

 

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mnbv_fockewulfe #9 Posted 27 March 2018 - 12:36 AM

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Oh, forgot my favorite argument against Virtual World.

If this is a virtual reality, then I am the only one being simulated that matters. Everyone else is just a simulation as well, and therefore random and quite arbitrary. So I haven't got any reason to believe you exist. I could just be making you up and who cares how I treat a made up person? I know I sure don't.


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Ace_BOTlistic_Cosmo #10 Posted 27 March 2018 - 03:01 AM

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View Postmnbv_fockewulfe, on 26 March 2018 - 07:36 PM, said:

Oh, forgot my favorite argument against Virtual World.

If this is a virtual reality, then I am the only one being simulated that matters. Everyone else is just a simulation as well, and therefore random and quite arbitrary. So I haven't got any reason to believe you exist. I could just be making you up and who cares how I treat a made up person? I know I sure don't.

 

well... that destroys all rebuttal...

I've and we've and the machine all bow to your checkmate

game, set, match...

the switch is in the corner

.

.

.

:great:

 

 


if the pilot's good, see, I mean, if he's really..sharp, he can barrel that baby in so low [he spreads his arms like wings and laughs],

you oughtta see it sometime, it's a sight. A big plane like a '52. VRROOM! There's jet exhaust, fryin' chickens in the barnyard.


PostTraumatic #11 Posted 28 March 2018 - 01:06 AM

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Nothing is real.  We are in a time compressed program in an alternate reality.  This entire lifetime will only take a moment of our life-time in that reality.  See: Boltzmann brain & Matrinoshka Brains

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhy4Z_32kQo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ef-mxjYkllw

 

sol·ip·sism
ˈsäləpˌsizəm/
noun
  1. the view or theory that the self is all that can be known to exist.
     

Edited by PostTraumatic, 28 March 2018 - 01:17 AM.





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