21 replies to this topic

[comtedumas]

they really ratcheted up the bot and AA behavior, didn't they?  I had bot bombers chasing my Do-17 around on one map.  

[Crashff82]

All bot Aircraft have started Crashing into me.  Had it happen several times recently.  Turned attacking them into a game of chicken.  Only downfall is you have to swerve to avoid being rammed and killed.

[CorvusCorvax]

Crashff82, on 19 March 2018 - 12:03 AM, said:

All bot Aircraft have started Crashing into me.  Had it happen several times recently.  Turned attacking them into a game of chicken.  Only downfall is you have to swerve to avoid being rammed and killed.

 

I had a bot Spitfire try to head-on me three separate times today.  While I was in my Me-410.  One was a rocket kill at 300m.  My first calculated rocket kill.  The other two were just stupid bot behavior - the twin 30s on an Me-410 will just demolish a LF.  I do not notice that the bots are any smarter than they ever have been.

[comtedumas]

I think they turned the bot and AA up a touch too much.  

[LMG]

I didn't feel like the AA was any different from usual. The bots did seem to often prefer to shoot me over Air Defense Aircraft though, so there might be something going on there

[Sheeple_Slayer]

comtedumas, on 20 March 2018 - 09:14 PM, said:

I think they turned the bot and AA up a touch too much.  

I like this. I feel like it is more challenging for us, humans. What I don't like is when all the intelligent bots are in the enemy team and all the stupid ones are in mine.

Edited by Sheeple_Decimator, 21 March 2018 - 02:24 AM.

[comtedumas]

LMG, on 20 March 2018 - 05:28 PM, said:

I didn't feel like the AA was any different from usual. The bots did seem to often prefer to shoot me over Air Defense Aircraft though, so there might be something going on there

 

I flew against the AA in my bomber right after the patch last week and it was way more brutal than it had been.  It's also far more accurate than it should be.  

[I_QQ_4_U]

I think I've figured out the hyper aggressive homing bots. The first one you shoot down will bee line to you the rest of the game.

[comtedumas]

I_QQ_4_U, on 21 March 2018 - 01:38 AM, said:

I think I've figured out the hyper aggressive homing bots. The first one you shoot down will bee line to you the rest of the game.

 

I think you are right, a bit in a 329 kept coming back at me once I shot him down in my IL-40.  He wasn’t good enough all three times.  

[CorvusCorvax]

I_QQ_4_U, on 21 March 2018 - 06:38 AM, said:

I think I've figured out the hyper aggressive homing bots. The first one you shoot down will bee line to you the rest of the game.

 

That would explain the HF sandwich I experienced the other day.  I shot down two very wounded bot HFs over an airbase, and flipped the cap.  For the rest of the match, they tag-teamed me, and it was all I could do to avoid getting shot down.  Never mind helping my team - I was jinking, yanking, banking, and pulling out all the stops to just not die.  The whole time I was thinking "WTeff???"

Edited by Rico_CotC_, 21 March 2018 - 02:27 PM.

[Prenzlau]

What are we really trying to get at here? The idea behind the bots if I'm not mistaken is to make them more like human players. Now for everything someone might think of that human players do, good or bad, are we really going to be critical of bots, when I would argue that human players do the same things. Human players chase each other around the map, they ram, they don't protect caps, they fly into the middle and get shot right away, etc. So... bots are supposed to be What? And they are supposed to do What? "The stupid bots on my team let me down", ok, what about the human players that did not perform well? We could post all day about stories of bots doing things, and just the same, post as many stories about human players doing things. 

Do we really want professional bots that are "super" in every category? Because then I imagine the "dumbing bots down" movement will start really quick. My point is we really need to consider what we are asking here. If I were to say, some bots are better flyers and fighters than some humans, would anyone agree to that statement? 

We tend to ignore bot behavior when we win or have epic battles that come out in our favor, and then find blame when we feel like were unfairly defeated. 

In the end, nothing is equal, and nothing is actually perfectly fair, its the nature of reality. maybe we need to start thinking about how we deal with this more than trying to fine tune something that ultimately is flawed to begin with.

 

Prenzlau

[LMG]

comtedumas, on 21 March 2018 - 02:33 AM, said:

I think you are right, a bit in a 329 kept coming back at me once I shot him down in my IL-40.  He wasn’t good enough all three times.  

 

You sure it wasn't just trying to get the cap you were over? Bot GAAs still won't shoot at other aircraft outside of their reargun, and even they they don't intentionally point their tail towards you, so it doesn't really make sense to have them chase you down. What I will say is that bot ground pounders are far less predictable now. I've seen bot GAAs go to 3 different sectors in 3 different matches on the same map. 2 of those possible destinations often lead to the team's loss without player intervention (like, say, ignoring the Command Center next to spawn to go for an Airfield or a Garrison at the other side of the map).

[StoptheViolins]

AA seems more inaccurate.

 

[I_QQ_4_U]

Prenzlau, on 21 March 2018 - 03:23 PM, said:

What are we really trying to get at here? The idea behind the bots if I'm not mistaken is to make them more like human players.

 

The problem is when you get a really good homing bot, in a plane you have a hard time dealing with, and you spend the entire game trying to fight it off.  Also human players don't know where you are at all times, even when you're near each other you often don't know which plane is which until you get close enough to see a name, bots don't have that problem.

 

[Soylent_Red_Isnt_People]

I_QQ_4_U, on 22 March 2018 - 02:17 AM, said:

The problem is when you get a really good homing bot, in a plane you have a hard time dealing with, and you spend the entire game trying to fight it off.

And invariably the AAR scoreboard will show all that bot did for the entire match was that damage to a human plus maybe got a kill ahead of the others in its locale, just to screw with a player's match due to its coding.

 

 

 

Rico_CotC_, on 21 March 2018 - 12:26 PM, said:

That would explain the HF sandwich I experienced the other day.  For the rest of the match, they tag-teamed me, and it was all I could do to avoid getting shot down. 

Never mind helping my team - I was jinking, yanking, banking, and pulling out all the stops to just not die.  The whole time I was thinking "WTeff???"

This is almost every match for me if I queue a light; I actually tend to get less attention from a flight of humans who're both in heavy fighters.

I loathe seeing a bot 262 or J8 on red, knowing I'll spend all match having to watch for their passes (invariably a critical no matter how slight the plinking) yet probably never be in a position to shoot the damn thing down.

[Soylent_Red_Isnt_People]

Soylent_Red_Isnt_People, on 23 March 2018 - 07:45 PM, said:

And invariably the AAR scoreboard will show all that bot did for the entire match was that damage to a human plus maybe got a kill ahead of the others in its locale, just to screw with a player's match due to its coding.

Just tonight played a match with the XP72 (1v1) on Rome where an A7M & La7 broke away from the central airbase scrum to intercept me at the plant even though I was behind the mountain and over a map square away.

At end of battle the La7 had downed only (1) plane, and that A7M (2), finishing 11th and 9th respectively on their team ranking; they kept coming back after me, or setup to intercept even before I respawned.

 

The bot 'Spit on my team barely outscored that La7, and only two other non-GAA bots on my team broke four kay points, with my pair of A7Ms scoring about half what their red counterparts earned to both be at bottom.

Human on red was in a Spitfire and cleared a bit over thirteen kay, while the only red MRF ended up at the bottom of the team; there were eight lights and one heavy per side.

 

 

This last Attrition weekend I was down around IV or V, where the red team had an AFK player for the entire match.

No less than two blue bot lights spent the match chasing that plane every time it showed, without ever shooting it down; I and another human got the AFK once each near our respawn just trying to keep bots in the battle.

 

A pair of light fighters, unable to shoot down another light flying straight and level... yeah, I'm pretty sure we might've lost that match.

Edited by Soylent_Red_Isnt_People, 28 March 2018 - 05:55 AM.

[SgtSchlautter]

I just love watching slow russian GA's try to take the shortest route from point A to point B which leads to them trying to fly over a mountain. Then they stall and sink into the mountain-side Stupid bots. Ramming bots seem to be out of control now too. Despite all of that, I still have more fun facing bots than players because mm always gives me the new players who get less than 1k personal points throughout the match. Such a burden for the team

[LMG]

SgtSchlautter, on 28 March 2018 - 12:54 AM, said:

I just love watching slow russian GA's try to take the shortest route from point A to point B which leads to them trying to fly over a mountain. Then they stall and sink into the mountain-side Stupid bots. Ramming bots seem to be out of control now too. Despite all of that, I still have more fun facing bots than players because mm always gives me the new players who get less than 1k personal points throughout the match. Such a burden for the team

 

I think someone told the bot GAAs that they shouldn't turnfight with mountains, so now they're going for BnZ 

[GonerNL]

I also get the impression that on some bases the AA was turned up at some point.

Normally when I announced a target and the bots all left me alone, I still flew on and tried to take out enough defense fighter to take the base. But now when I'm alone, I turn around ; being the only target means instant death !!

And as mentioned, the ramming got worse. When you're in a head-on and try to evade, the bot or defense fighter immediately turns in the same direction to ram you, especially in HF's ... I've even been rammed while dog-fighting other planes, from the side or behind, the heavies just seem home in on you.

[trikke]

it's still eerie to fly right in front of a bot GA...  absolutely no sign of recognition of the fact that it could melt me down in one second

 

it's got to be on the to-do list of bot coders, because it's proven to be a faster way to cap, by killing both red u

 

we really are unable to quantify AA effectiveness, but suddenly seeing murderous GAs would be a game changer that most of us would notice