Jump to content


Pre-2.0-Gen player concerns


  • Please log in to reply
39 replies to this topic

MARS_REVENANT #21 Posted 08 March 2018 - 06:29 AM

    Colonel

  • Community Ace
  • 3725 battles
  • 9,310
  • [WG-CA] WG-CA
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012

View Postcomputit, on 07 March 2018 - 09:22 PM, said:

 

​There were more players when there were 3 man flights

Removing it reduced the population 

 

Just a fact

 

I got married at 30, and when I turn 60, I'll have 2 wives.

1.9.x Forum Stats: Colonel; Member; 34638 battles; 7,526 message_img.pngMember since: 11-03-2014

I never lose; either I win or I learn.

TWITCH  |  YOUTUBE  |  FACEBOOK  |  TWITTER


_A_3_ #22 Posted 08 March 2018 - 06:44 AM

    Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 53 battles
  • 79
  • [S-S-G] S-S-G
  • Member since:
    01-22-2016

View PostMARS_REVENANT, on 08 March 2018 - 06:29 AM, said:

 

I got married at 30, and when I turn 60, I'll have 2 wives.

 

​Its going to take you that long to find another game ?

Bobby_Tables #23 Posted 08 March 2018 - 07:02 AM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Member
  • 3323 battles
  • 1,105
  • [-DOW-] -DOW-
  • Member since:
    06-16-2014

View Post_A_3_, on 08 March 2018 - 12:44 AM, said:

 

​Its going to take you that long to find another game ?

 

Jeezus, S-S-G members coming out of the woodwork like termites in mating season.  Maybe some of you might start playing again?  Unless you all are doing so under alt accounts.  Who knows, once I see some rando player ranting about ram kills I will know TT is back.  

Spyshadow01 #24 Posted 08 March 2018 - 08:05 AM

    Senior Airman

  • Closed Beta Tester
  • 1355 battles
  • 24
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012

View PostGiN_nTonic, on 07 March 2018 - 02:35 PM, said:

1. I like added complexity on GA  - but i think its too much right now.  It feels a bit gimmicky how you end up rushing from area to area to area and sometimes avoid dogifghting the actual few humans in the game since you dont see them.   WoWS 2-3 CAP areas are sufficient and would improve game-play here IMO...perhaps larger districts...?.  The previous game tilted too far to air-2-air battles but this game is tilting too much to GA.  Needs balance.

 

I don't really think GA gameplay is all that complex, to be honest.  At least, not in comparison to any of the fighter classes.

 

View PostGiN_nTonic, on 07 March 2018 - 02:35 PM, said:

2. To me it feels like BnZ game-play as been limited too much.  LF-ers and Multirole that traditionally used horizontal BnZ seem to have been limited in their effectiveness.  It now seems as if playing them like a potato (per last meta) is now their main function.  At least give them back their speed advantage in horizontal BnZ.

 

From what I understand, BnZ was extremely dominant pre-2.0.  As a pre-2.0 player that's recently coming back, maybe you're just very used to that meta?  I don't think BnZ is hugely ineffective anymore, imo heavy fighters are still very strong thanks to their firepower and speed.  If you're a good shot, you can often knock out an unaware LF in a single pass and their speed does still allow them to get away and quickly move on to other caps.  I've found that even in fast LFs/MRs, I can usually get away from TnB aircraft so long as I preserve my boost.  It's just that BnZ aircraft aren't hands down the best anymore.

 

View PostGiN_nTonic, on 07 March 2018 - 02:35 PM, said:

3. Performance impact.  In both WoT and WoWS there are secondary ways to win the game apart from destroying the other vehicles.  In WoWP right now it feels like shooting down planes and doing raw dmg is secondary to playing the CAPS and collecting resource pts.  A player can have an excellent personal game and impact the match very little.  To win in the current meta you have to know too much about the pt mechanics...and its overly complex IMO. One min. the game is telling me I need to re-capture a certain base, the next min. its telling me to go shoot down a flight of bombers, the next its telling me to go stop missile strikes....

 

I actually think that the objective oriented gameplay in 2.0 WoWP is to the game's credit.  However, shooting down aircraft and doing raw damage is the primary way to flipping these cap points, for most points (primary excepting being the mining plant, but even that can be flipped quickly if you bait enemy aircraft over it then shoot them down).  The cap-point mechanics aren't very complex, you get 3pts per cap you have every handful of seconds, airstrips/airbases allow you to respawn over them (and airbases will also allow you to repair your aircraft), rocket bases will launch rockets at enemy/neutral caps to destroy ground targets and help flip them to your side, command centers call in waves of bombers to level enemy caps (but these bombers can be shot down), and mining plants will give an extra 80 (I think?) cap points every 2 minutes.  Because all caps generally have the same income, what it comes down to is who holds the most caps for the longest period of time, with the exception being mining plants which can win the game for a team with a slight cap disadvantage.

 

But the fact remains that it's A2A kills that are the fastest way to flip these points, so if you're having a good game and moving from cap to cap, you're almost certainly going to win.  However, if you're focused on farming bots over a single cap point while the enemy team flips every other cap point around you, then the loss is yours regardless of how many combat points you farmed.  I like this because it generally makes camping a point (or the spawn) and farming bots the wrong play.  If players are "avoiding" you to go flip other caps, well...you're in a plane too.  Don't sit around on your laurels, chase after them and win the game.

 

I won't speak on the subject of flights too much.  I certainly think that more of my friends would play this game if 3 man flights were reintroduced, but 2 man flights are already pretty strong and the case raised against 3 man flights isn't one that can be dismissed.  I don't know where I stand on that.



FIight #25 Posted 08 March 2018 - 11:45 AM

    Command Chief Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 4080 battles
  • 707
  • [HVAR] HVAR
  • Member since:
    09-11-2015

View PostBubba_Zanetti, on 08 March 2018 - 01:16 AM, said:

Why even bother with that?  There’s no clan or competitive type events run by WG now or in any planning stage.  No, in accordance with their current devolution of any and all good, functioning, least impactful feature or function or graphic model or audio tweak or emblem, I say dissolve any and all two man flights.  They serve zero function in a bot filled randomized pub match....good riddance.

 

I wholeheartedly agree, the population before the cancellation of 3-man flight is already dropping. If any of you are asking

why 3-man flight is cancelled, I would tell you the high tier population is not enough to sustain only 1 tier spread, and with less

human a 3-man flight is devastating. 3-me1101s or meta planes alike vs another 3 me209s, hmmm, interesting enough you can

predict who wins before the start of the battle. The high tier pop is so few that ppl can exploit the mm and harm the game play of

other solo players. Don't ask why me1101 can face me209, there are not enough human tier 9s so tier 8s will be arranged against

tier 10 players. In a bot dominated world the 3-man flight will only worsen the situation, and even a flight of 2 with meta planes can

be a huge advantage.



FlakValleyExpress #26 Posted 08 March 2018 - 11:51 AM

    Captain

  • Member
  • 26 battles
  • 3,918
  • Member since:
    02-09-2012

View PostMARS_REVENANT, on 07 March 2018 - 05:20 PM, said:

 

The meta maybe, but not the current population.  The MM is currently putting together games with an average of 5v5 live players.  Right now, even 2 man flights are OP.

 

Then make the game a total PVE since the player population does not support fully human teams. The developers can then focus on the game mechanics easily, instead of coming up with broken events., Players can be happy at shooting bots that will at least have skill settings in historical scenarios. My brother tells me that WoWS has all of this type of setup in WoWS operations mode. Maybe the WoWP arm needs to talk to the WoWS arm of WG? It would not hurt to ask.

1.X WoWP veteran - Airborne Scout - Class of 1.0

Vae victis

Update 2.0 - It's not a bug, it's a feature

"Battle is the Great Redeemer. It is the fiery crucible in which true heroes are forged. The one place where all men truly share the same rank, regardless of what kind of parasitic scum they were going in."

 


FIight #27 Posted 08 March 2018 - 12:00 PM

    Command Chief Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 4080 battles
  • 707
  • [HVAR] HVAR
  • Member since:
    09-11-2015

View PostFlakValleyExpress, on 08 March 2018 - 06:51 AM, said:

 

Then make the game a total PVE since the player population does not support fully human teams. The developers can then focus on the game mechanics easily, instead of coming up with broken events., Players can be happy at shooting bots that will at least have skill settings in historical scenarios. My brother tells me that WoWS has all of this type of setup in WoWS operations mode. Maybe the WoWP arm needs to talk to the WoWS arm of WG? It would not hurt to ask.

 

I would like this mode to be implemented if WG's bots have alphaGo-like intelligence, unfortunately, not even 1%...

Toggle #28 Posted 08 March 2018 - 01:27 PM

    First Lieutenant

  • Alpha tester
  • 3018 battles
  • 2,403
  • [DRACS] DRACS
  • Member since:
    02-14-2012

View PostMARS_REVENANT, on 07 March 2018 - 10:20 PM, said:

 

The meta maybe, but not the current population.  The MM is currently putting together games with an average of 5v5 live players.  Right now, even 2 man flights are OP.

 

I'm not sure what data you're looking at.  You may feel flights are OP but I strongly disagree.  I've been solo way too many times and beat the snot out of the OpFor with a flight or conversely been flighted and had the snot beat outta me. 

I don't want to tinfoil hat this but it does appear flights are matched with the epitome of incompetent bots while non flight sides are matched with just plain stupid bots.



soydivision #29 Posted 08 March 2018 - 01:35 PM

    Senior Master Sergeant

  • Alpha tester
  • 604 battles
  • 182
  • [HVAR] HVAR
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012

View PostGiN_nTonic, on 07 March 2018 - 03:35 PM, said:

1. I like added complexity on GA  - but i think its too much right now.  It feels a bit gimmicky how you end up rushing from area to area to area and sometimes avoid dogifghting the actual few humans in the game since you dont see them.   WoWS 2-3 CAP areas are sufficient and would improve game-play here IMO...perhaps larger districts...?.  The previous game tilted too far to air-2-air battles but this game is tilting too much to GA.  Needs balance.

 

2. To me it feels like BnZ game-play as been limited too much.  LF-ers and Multirole that traditionally used horizontal BnZ seem to have been limited in their effectiveness.  It now seems as if playing them like a potato (per last meta) is now their main function.  At least give them back their speed advantage in horizontal BnZ.

 

3. Performance impact.  In both WoT and WoWS there are secondary ways to win the game apart from destroying the other vehicles.  In WoWP right now it feels like shooting down planes and doing raw dmg is secondary to playing the CAPS and collecting resource pts.  A player can have an excellent personal game and impact the match very little.  To win in the current meta you have to know too much about the pt mechanics...and its overly complex IMO. One min. the game is telling me I need to re-capture a certain base, the next min. its telling me to go shoot down a flight of bombers, the next its telling me to go stop missile strikes....

 

I've played a few matches where the humans on the other side simply avoided me as if they were out there collecting coins/tokens like they were in super mario brothers and the person with most coins/tokens wins.  

 

Performance impact (Dmg and kills) in my opinion should always be #1 way to impact a game.  Just like in WoT and WoWS there are other ways to trump dmg and kills to win, but 8 times of 10 doing monster dmg and killing a lot of the enemy is going to carry a match.

 

4. Bring back 3-man flights.  This new game seems like it could handle it just fine....not to mention that reason alone I could probably get some people back over here to play from WT.

 

1) It does needs tweaking, but better than the one-dimensional GA play that we had before.  

 

2) BnZ becomes more viable at higher tiers, especially given how much action revolves around bomber flights at that stage.  Lower tiers are clearly dominated by TnB.  

 

3) In conquest mode, winning is primarily about controlling caps and not about personal score.  This is a realization that everyone who has played conquest in earnest has had to accept.  Ignore it and you will get frustrated.  It's actually relatively simple once you get the hang of it.  The two new gameplay modes that are making their current debut seem to have more non-capping related things to do though.

 

4) I'm surprised that so many are asking for this back, being that certain 2-man flights are currently so dominant as is.  That being said, if 3-man flights brings back our veterans + top players that left in patches past, then I think this game would benefit from the increased competition.



MARS_REVENANT #30 Posted 08 March 2018 - 02:18 PM

    Colonel

  • Community Ace
  • 3725 battles
  • 9,310
  • [WG-CA] WG-CA
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012

View PostToggle, on 08 March 2018 - 08:27 AM, said:

 

I'm not sure what data you're looking at.  You may feel flights are OP but I strongly disagree.  I've been solo way too many times and beat the snot out of the OpFor with a flight or conversely been flighted and had the snot beat outta me. 

I don't want to tinfoil hat this but it does appear flights are matched with the epitome of incompetent bots while non flight sides are matched with just plain stupid bots.

 

I don't think anybody has exact data, other than my own experience of a higher win rate while being in a flight.  Also there is a story of 3 C-6s going on a 100 game winning streak... and that was back when we had a much higher population

1.9.x Forum Stats: Colonel; Member; 34638 battles; 7,526 message_img.pngMember since: 11-03-2014

I never lose; either I win or I learn.

TWITCH  |  YOUTUBE  |  FACEBOOK  |  TWITTER


Perco_lator #31 Posted 08 March 2018 - 02:31 PM

    Command Chief Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 11 battles
  • 606
  • Member since:
    08-15-2015

View PostMARS_REVENANT, on 08 March 2018 - 09:18 AM, said:

 

I don't think anybody has exact data, other than my own experience of a higher win rate while being in a flight.  Also there is a story of 3 C-6s going on a 100 game winning streak... and that was back when we had a much higher population

 

It was more like 250, but then one of them felt bad & put a stop to it.

"Come find me in the game, tough guy.  We'll see who knows stuff."


comtedumas #32 Posted 08 March 2018 - 11:58 PM

    Command Chief Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 4899 battles
  • 906
  • [FK] FK
  • Member since:
    04-11-2016

View PostGiN_nTonic, on 07 March 2018 - 03:35 PM, said:

Everyone active in the 2.0+ may look at this post completely differently, and I am happy to be told where I am wrong.  However, a few comments from a pre-2.0-gen player trying this game again.

 

1. I like added complexity on GA  - but i think its too much right now.  It feels a bit gimmicky how you end up rushing from area to area to area and sometimes avoid dogifghting the actual few humans in the game since you dont see them.   WoWS 2-3 CAP areas are sufficient and would improve game-play here IMO...perhaps larger districts...?.  The previous game tilted too far to air-2-air battles but this game is tilting too much to GA.  Needs balance.

 

2. To me it feels like BnZ game-play as been limited too much.  LF-ers and Multirole that traditionally used horizontal BnZ seem to have been limited in their effectiveness.  It now seems as if playing them like a potato (per last meta) is now their main function.  At least give them back their speed advantage in horizontal BnZ.

 

3. Performance impact.  In both WoT and WoWS there are secondary ways to win the game apart from destroying the other vehicles.  In WoWP right now it feels like shooting down planes and doing raw dmg is secondary to playing the CAPS and collecting resource pts.  A player can have an excellent personal game and impact the match very little.  To win in the current meta you have to know too much about the pt mechanics...and its overly complex IMO. One min. the game is telling me I need to re-capture a certain base, the next min. its telling me to go shoot down a flight of bombers, the next its telling me to go stop missile strikes....

 

I've played a few matches where the humans on the other side simply avoided me as if they were out there collecting coins/tokens like they were in super mario brothers and the person with most coins/tokens wins.  

 

Performance impact (Dmg and kills) in my opinion should always be #1 way to impact a game.  Just like in WoT and WoWS there are other ways to trump dmg and kills to win, but 8 times of 10 doing monster dmg and killing a lot of the enemy is going to carry a match.

 

4. Bring back 3-man flights.  This new game seems like it could handle it just fine....not to mention that reason alone I could probably get some people back over here to play from WT.

 

 

 

 

The just have to raise the altitude caps and I can tell you why with one name.  B17.  They just cant have B17’s operating at 12000 in this game, they just can’t.  So that altitude cap has got to go up.  

And the developers have said in one of their blogs they were looking at 3 man flights again.  



comtedumas #33 Posted 08 March 2018 - 11:59 PM

    Command Chief Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 4899 battles
  • 906
  • [FK] FK
  • Member since:
    04-11-2016

View PostGiN_nTonic, on 07 March 2018 - 05:30 PM, said:

Think "trickle-down" game population....  if 3 man flights were allowed, more people would play.  The more people would play, the better the population.

 

how do you figure?  

__ThisMachine__ #34 Posted 09 March 2018 - 05:15 AM

    Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 15 battles
  • 47
  • Member since:
    08-01-2013

View PostMARS_REVENANT, on 07 March 2018 - 10:20 PM, said:

 

The meta maybe, but not the current population.  The MM is currently putting together games with an average of 5v5 live players.  Right now, even 2 man flights are OP.

 

View PostMARS_REVENANT, on 07 March 2018 - 10:38 PM, said:

 

By that logic: The more people win, the more people would play, conversely, the more people lose, the less they would play.  Flights have higher win rates on the backs of everyone else.  Whatever population gained by the flights would be cancelled out by people rage quitting.

 

If the battles were full 12v12 live players a flight could be countered.

 

View PostMARS_REVENANT, on 08 March 2018 - 12:45 AM, said:

 

I don't disagree, I pretty much stated that... winning is fun.  But for the most part, as it is now, it will be flights vs mixed population where the MM makes 5v5 of 6v6 battles.   Fun is an illusion, what's fun for the flight is chaos for the noobs. 

 

i generally view you as a 2.0/WG apologist, but i have to give credit where its due, you are killing it on the question of flights. even more so now than in pre-garbage mode, you have the old vets and the "noobs". WGs only chance to build population (which we all know is a miserable failure) is to get the noobs to keep playing longer and they are not going to do that when they are getting curb stomped by flights of veteran players.

GiN_nTonic #35 Posted 10 March 2018 - 02:09 AM

    Captain

  • Member
  • 226 battles
  • 3,873
  • [-WS-] -WS-
  • Member since:
    10-13-2013

WG could look to counter 3-man flights with better bots for the non-3-man flight side.  No one is saying 3-man flights need to be able to steam-role games.

 

Perhaps WG should allow 3-man flights during peak times like weekends to "ease" into it.


Edited by GiN_nTonic, 10 March 2018 - 02:09 AM.


SpiritFoxMY #36 Posted 10 March 2018 - 02:35 AM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Closed Beta Tester
  • 2504 battles
  • 1,734
  • [R-A-W] R-A-W
  • Member since:
    12-31-2012
I think the bots control things enough as it is...

***

But a truce to this mournful story

For death is a distant friend

So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


Soylent_Red_Isnt_People #37 Posted 10 March 2018 - 09:27 AM

    Senior Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 2309 battles
  • 377
  • [SOL] SOL
  • Member since:
    12-08-2015

View PostGiN_nTonic, on 10 March 2018 - 12:09 AM, said:

WG could look to counter 3-man flights with better bots for the non-3-man flight side.

I'm not sure they even understand how to go about coding for that; just here after midnight I joined with a guildmate to flight and we instantly started getting strings of matches with multiple 55-65% players on red.

Guess which side also got the better bots, to absolutely stomp us in no time flat, until finally after the third of still more one-sided before start matches my partner said he'd had enough of that and logged off.

 

In one match, not only did red get the higher caliber flight but the team was ALSO assigned another pair of lone similar players.

Needless to say, I seriously lost my cool over a couple of those matches.

 

WG's matchmaker approaches simply don't work, or seem to have ever worked well for any title; I'd be dubious in the extreme to consider at all that they might be able to somehow balance a return to three-person flights.


Edited by Soylent_Red_Isnt_People, 10 March 2018 - 09:29 AM.

"If they don't chase you after a mile, they don't chase ya.... Maybe it's two miles...."   ---   "You wanna play it soft, we'll play it soft. You wanna play it hard, let's play it hard."

 

5801234590.png

 

''Under control? You're grabbing a f**king bazooka, you dumba**!''


Sheeple_Slayer #38 Posted 11 March 2018 - 03:53 AM

    Senior Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 535 battles
  • 178
  • Member since:
    03-19-2016

View PostGiN_nTonic, on 07 March 2018 - 08:35 PM, said:

 

 

1. I like added complexity on GA  - but i think its too much right now.  It feels a bit gimmicky how you end up rushing from area to area to area and sometimes avoid dogifghting the actual few humans in the game since you dont see them.   WoWS 2-3 CAP areas are sufficient and would improve game-play here IMO...perhaps larger districts...?.  The previous game tilted too far to air-2-air battles but this game is tilting too much to GA.  Needs balance.

 

 

3. Performance impact.  In both WoT and WoWS there are secondary ways to win the game apart from destroying the other vehicles.  In WoWP right now it feels like shooting down planes and doing raw dmg is secondary to playing the CAPS and collecting resource pts.  A player can have an excellent personal game and impact the match very little.  To win in the current meta you have to know too much about the pt mechanics...and its overly complex IMO. One min. the game is telling me I need to re-capture a certain base, the next min. its telling me to go shoot down a flight of bombers, the next its telling me to go stop missile strikes....

 

I've played a few matches where the humans on the other side simply avoided me as if they were out there collecting coins/tokens like they were in super mario brothers and the person with most coins/tokens wins.  

 

Performance impact (Dmg and kills) in my opinion should always be #1 way to impact a game.  Just like in WoT and WoWS there are other ways to trump dmg and kills to win, but 8 times of 10 doing monster dmg and killing a lot of the enemy is going to carry a match.

 

 

 

 

Wining in this stupid game is almost all about who bomb and destroy more buildings than fighting and killing enemy planes. Who's bomber and gaa pilots, or bots, are more skilled, these are those who will win in 99% of the time.

I've bought that tier 3 english bomber, I went up at 3000 m and from there I bombed buildings over and over. If 1 objective turned red, I went there, I dropped some bombs and the objective became blue again. I won 9 times from 10. It was so boring. I sold the bomber for silver.


Edited by Galbeaza, 11 March 2018 - 04:10 AM.


trikke #39 Posted 12 March 2018 - 11:45 AM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Member
  • 2160 battles
  • 1,606
  • [R-A-W] R-A-W
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012

View PostMARS_REVENANT, on 08 March 2018 - 01:29 AM, said:

I got married at 30, and when I turn 60, I'll have 2 wives.

 

when somebody reaches 60 with two wives, that someone will def need 3 man flights
Spittoon says #smarterpilotswinmore

trikke #40 Posted 12 March 2018 - 12:04 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Member
  • 2160 battles
  • 1,606
  • [R-A-W] R-A-W
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012

View PostToggle, on 08 March 2018 - 08:27 AM, said:

I'm not sure what data you're looking at.  You may feel flights are OP but I strongly disagree.  I've been solo way too many times and beat the snot out of the OpFor with a flight or conversely been flighted and had the snot beat outta me. 

I don't want to tinfoil hat this but it does appear flights are matched with the epitome of incompetent bots while non flight sides are matched with just plain stupid bots.

 

yep, i agree that it's not the idea of flights themselves that are OP

 

but we rarely see flights made up of new or low skill pilots... really, they're the ones that could benefit the most from instant battle communication

 

a 3 man flight with you, bearss and greenbay would be hard to counter with a bunch of solos

 

currently, flights are mostly made up by 2 good-to-great pilots commed together 

 

that's why i contend that 2 man flights should be downtiered now, and 3 man flights might even be double downtiered?


Spittoon says #smarterpilotswinmore




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users